Format Discussion BD/SP Random Battles Set Discussion

[pyuk]

I got a Bibarel with only Aqua Jet and Waterfall for attacks. If my opponent hadn't fallen for my bluff, they could have hard-walled me with their Vaporeon. Can we put Strength into Bibarel's pool and make it always have a STAB of each type? Ideally this includes something that prevents a 4-attacks set.

Edit: Just fought a Shell Smash Blastoise that somehow didn't have Ice Beam. That means it either had Roar, Rapid Spin, or Protect, and none of those seem very good with Shell Smash.

 

[drakonium]

Hello !

I don't have a screenshot unfortunately, but yesterday I got a Guts+Flame Orb Machamp with both Close Combat and Dynamic Punch. I suppose getting both moves can be useful on a No Guard set (even though coverage seems beter than CC), but on a Guts set DP is obviously terrible.

 

[Tarrembeau]

I got a Bibarel with only Aqua Jet and Waterfall for attacks. If my opponent hadn't fallen for my bluff, they could have hard-walled me with their Vaporeon. Can we put Strength into Bibarel's pool and make it always have a STAB of each type? Ideally this includes something that prevents a 4-attacks set.

Edit: Just fought a Shell Smash Blastoise that somehow didn't have Ice Beam. That means it either had Roar, Rapid Spin, or Protect, and none of those seem very good with Shell Smash.

With strength and double stab guaranteed you'll generate more sets without rest, and sets without priority at all. Also enforcing stab on priority moves mess with other pokemons, I'm pretty sure, and would create sets such as protect+3atks without liquidation on sharpedo, since it also gets aqua jet to generate choice band. Double water move+curse+rest is unfortunate though, maybe we should rework bibarel completely.

Blastoise does indeed generate smash with roar for some reason, thanks for reporting.

 

[Tarrembeau]

Hello !

I don't have a screenshot unfortunately, but yesterday I got a Guts+Flame Orb Machamp with both Close Combat and Dynamic Punch. I suppose getting both moves can be useful on a No Guard set (even though coverage seems beter than CC), but on a Guts set DP is obvsiously terrible.

This is a known issue, it will be fixed soon, thanks for reporting!

 

[Xceloh]

Moves for Wailord in [Gen 8 BDSP] Random Battle:Clear Smog, Ice Beam, Scald, Water Spout, which means that it only has specs

Wailord has a horrible special movepool but a solid physical one with the likes of Earthquake, Heavy slam (398 kg), Zen headbutt, Body slam/Double edge and STAB Waterfall. I think Wailord could be mixed or more physical-based since you really should run something else than Clear Smog.

 

[Feelingmo]

Breloom has poison heal but its set is the the set from the abillity that makes 60 bp moves or lower a higher amount of bp.
Maybe it can be like sub seed or something or give it back the abillity.

 

[PikaTROD]

Hello! Two thoughts:

1) While I was battling today, I was facing a Hariyama and realized its only available ability was thick fat. I think thick fat is a solid ability, and if it's hard to program two distinct sets than it works just fine. I personally always found the guts set more threatening, and in general I think if a pokemon has two abilities that work really well it adds dimensions to the game for both battlers if there is a chance of a pokemon being either set. So the suggestion is to add a guts set to hariyama.

2) I've realized a shift away from moody bibarel. I can understand why curse+simple is preferable in some cases, but again, if a pokemon has two viable abilities I think a set for each makes sense. Plus random battles are one of the few places people can play with abilities like moody, and so I think it's worth reimplementing. Maybe add protect to that set and make sure it always has a move with above 40bp. Again, I think it would add layers to an otherwise mediocre pokemon

 

[thatcameguy]

is there any reason why milotic has rest here?, there's no marvel scale and it still learns recover

 

[RSB]

is there any reason why milotic has rest here?, there's no marvel scale and it still learns recover

Milotic doesn't get access to any status moves this format so keeping yourself asleep for the 1.5x defense with marvel scale was the idea but seems it still has a chance to roll competitive and without sleep talk as well which is not ideal but the way rands is coded forcing either marvel scale or sleep talk also isnt ideal.

 

[El químico del pueblucho]

Can we have nasty plot bpass sets with minun and plusle? Just for the great ol' times of gen4 sets :)

 

[RSB]

Can we have nasty plot bpass sets with minun and plusle? Just for the great ol' times of gen4 sets :)

The only thing we have baton pass on is Jolteon due its low move pool and won't be adding it to anything else.

 

[El químico del pueblucho]

Can we reduce glalie's level like there's no faster mon after it gets a +2 in speed

 

[bobomania]

Can we reduce glalie's level like there's no faster mon after it gets a +2 in speed

Should definitely be doable since Moody is Ubers in BDSP, just a matter of finding a good level range to keep Moody mons from being useless.

 

[El químico del pueblucho]

Can we have surf on luvdisk really rn doesn't need scald at all, is very op and most likely it will ko anything that doesn't resists its moves or just nerf it (100 level just must be deserved for unown. This mon is even faster than persian :/)

 

[pyuk]

I just got a Self-Destruct Sudowoodo, but Sudowoodo learns Explosion.

 

[Tarrembeau]

I just got a Self-Destruct Sudowoodo, but Sudowoodo learns Explosion.

That's an oversight, thanks for reporting

 

[Patar136]

After reaching #5 on BDSP random battles I need to address something.

Moody.

As someone who has played with and against moody, I need to address the factors that cause it to be uncompetitive. For one thing, it is completely random. The most dangerous moody abusers in order are the following.
Glalie
Smeargle
Octillery

(If Bibarel had Moody it would probably shoot to number 1)

Now on it's own, you might be wondering what about all the weather abilities, Arena Trap, Shadow Tag and such? Well, as strong as weather is the entire team is often not entirely devoted to it. Just because you have a Tyranitar or Hippowdon does not mean you have a Sand Force user or Sandslash to abuse it, and same with having Kingra and Politoed on the same team. It can happen, and it's pretty awesome when it does, but not always. Furthermore, trapping abilities are not overcentralizing as Wobbuffet while annoying can be handled far more easily than something from previous gens such as Mega-Gengar and Dugtrio is always given Choice Band in BDSP random battles meaning that it can give your opponent an opportunity to set up on it given the chosen move it used to execute.

Moody doesn't have these qualities. You are simply waiting to get the stat boosts you need to unleash chaos on your opponent. Octillery is easiest to deal with due to its slow speed but the vast movepool it has is very dangerous: Hydro Pump, Gunk Shot, Fire Blast, Energy Ball and Ice Beam is a combination of perfect coverage options. Smeargle cannot attack but can potentially become a major irritant if it gets a stat boost as it will get hazards up very easily and be hard to stop in some cases. Lastly, Glalie is by far the most dangerous as it has extremely frustrating moves to deal with: Freeze Dry, Protect, Substitute, Earthquake and Disable (the absolute most frustrating move to deal with as it can shut down things that should be able to kill it very easily simply because many attacking mons only have one good move to hurt Glalie and switching out is very frustrating since you can take crazy damage from the near perfect coverage of Freeze Dry and Earthquake.)

The only way to really deal with Glalie is to just keep wailing on it as hard as you can due to its lack of recovery and hope to kill it. Roar/Whirlwind seems good in theory except for the fact that there are few mons that can do this without taking crazy damage. Haze seems good except that one of the only Haze mons, Tentacruel and Milotic in Random Battles are absolutely not able to resist taking heavy damage due to Freeze Dry (and Earthquake for Tentacruel).

This is just inherently uncompetitive to allow Moody for BDSP random battles. It is based entirely on RNG to fight these mons and play with them. As such, I humbly request that we ban Moody from BDSP random battles and replace former Moody Mons with non-Moody sets.

On an unrelated note, if I wanted to suggest sets for random battles how could I do so?

 

[El químico del pueblucho]

After reaching #5 on BDSP random battles I need to address something.

Moody.

As someone who has played with and against moody, I need to address the factors that cause it to be uncompetitive. For one thing, it is completely random. The most dangerous moody abusers in order are the following.
Glalie
Smeargle
Octillery

(If Bibarel had Moody it would probably shoot to number 1)

Now on it's own, you might be wondering what about all the weather abilities, Arena Trap, Shadow Tag and such? Well, as strong as weather is the entire team is often not entirely devoted to it. Just because you have a Tyranitar or Hippowdon does not mean you have a Sand Force user or Sandslash to abuse it, and same with having Kingra and Politoed on the same team. It can happen, and it's pretty awesome when it does, but not always. Furthermore, trapping abilities are not overcentralizing as Wobbuffet while annoying can be handled far more easily than something from previous gens such as Mega-Gengar and Dugtrio is always given Choice Band in BDSP random battles meaning that it can give your opponent an opportunity to set up on it given the chosen move it used to execute.

Moody doesn't have these qualities. You are simply waiting to get the stat boosts you need to unleash chaos on your opponent. Octillery is easiest to deal with due to its slow speed but the vast movepool it has is very dangerous: Hydro Pump, Gunk Shot, Fire Blast, Energy Ball and Ice Beam is a combination of perfect coverage options. Smeargle cannot attack but can potentially become a major irritant if it gets a stat boost as it will get hazards up very easily and be hard to stop in some cases. Lastly, Glalie is by far the most dangerous as it has extremely frustrating moves to deal with: Freeze Dry, Protect, Substitute, Earthquake and Disable (the absolute most frustrating move to deal with as it can shut down things that should be able to kill it very easily simply because many attacking mons only have one good move to hurt Glalie and switching out is very frustrating since you can take crazy damage from the near perfect coverage of Freeze Dry and Earthquake.)

The only way to really deal with Glalie is to just keep wailing on it as hard as you can due to its lack of recovery and hope to kill it. Roar/Whirlwind seems good in theory except for the fact that there are few mons that can do this without taking crazy damage. Haze seems good except that one of the only Haze mons, Tentacruel and Milotic in Random Battles are absolutely not able to resist taking heavy damage due to Freeze Dry (and Earthquake for Tentacruel).

This is just inherently uncompetitive to allow Moody for BDSP random battles. It is based entirely on RNG to fight these mons and play with them. As such, I humbly request that we ban Moody from BDSP random battles and replace former Moody Mons with non-Moody sets.

On an unrelated note, if I wanted to suggest sets for random battles how could I do so?

ermm glalie got that nerf, i've asked before for a nerf and they've did it, rn they have ubers level, rn they have mid to bad speed, and u always get something that can stop it and if u can well that's the randbats problem in general not with this ability, u'll see its broken indeed but not alawyas u'll get what u'll want and sometimes it can make u vulnerable in some turns, best thing i can say to beat this mon is never let ur guard down or this mon will beat u.

 

[Tarrembeau]

Our policy is not to ban things based on how powerful they are. Moody was banned prior to gen8 because it used to raise evasiveness as well. Now, while being a rather powerful ability, it's nothing that meet the requirements for us to consider banning it. Moody is very unreliable; only glalie can make a fine use of it since it has a good stalling movepool despite its awful base stats. But Glalie was also specifically nerfed to uber level to adress this issue. Smeargle doesn't really matter anyway, since being a slight annoyance is not something worth taking an action for. Glalie and octillery would be borderline unplayable without moody and that's something to consider as well.
Regarding Bibarel, it was given simple because the fact it could generate moody was preventing it to ever rolling simple; and the simple set is more reliable on pretty much any given circumstances.
TL;DR: we're not considering removing moody or nerfing the moody mons further.