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SPOILERS! Brilliant Diamond & Shining Pearl Data Dumps
- Thread starter DHR-107
- Start date
Red Raven
I COULD BE BANNED!
Here's mine. I'm gonna go with Empoleon because I never used that like ever and Staraptor is just mandatory on a playthru. Assuming all of them are available at the same time they are in platinum, this is my planned team. If not, then I'll just nag whatever I find
OKAY SO
Yung Dramps and I were speculating on Battle Tower boss teams for want of any actual datamined set rosters (we still don't have those sadly)
and I was thinking "hey, I remember noticing Palmer's Pokémon were all close-ish together - I wonder if any other bosses' known Pokémon are positioned near potential teammates?"
so we both started looking for suspicious groups of Pokémon, and I happened to notice a very clear pattern that made it really, really obvious that a section of the set list was dedicated specifically to... 30 boss teams in a row, corresponding exactly (and in exactly the right order) to the same 30 teams we already knew were supposed to be bosses in the Battle Tower.
That said, I need to qualify this - while it is mostly very obvious that these teams belong to the people I'm suggesting they do, there are a small handful of one-off exceptions that don't make sense. I have chosen to leave these intact but annotate them with comments highlighting that they are out of place, rather than make any arbitrary exceptions to the "pattern" I noticed, to make it clear how compelling the raw data is without any changes whatsoever and instead remind people that this data may not have a perfect 1:1 correlation after all.
The only obviously weird ones were:
All of that is to say... this is all very speculative and there are clearly some exceptions to the pattern (these teams are not 100% accurate to the real ones), buuut I also thought it was cool as heck information and I wanted to post it anyway!
Despite the weird edge cases above muddying things a little, this actually gives us some really cool stuff - highlights include:
Anyway, I am super excited to have uncovered this and I wanted to share it : D
Remember that these are not necessarily the exact teams they will use in the game and there are clear signs of edge cases for Fantina and Mira/Cheryl in particular (maybe they just only wanted Fantina to have 8 sets, or maybe she'll pull her ninth from somewhere else on the table and the Dragonite is a mistake - and no I honestly couldn't tell you what the deal was with Mira and Cheryl :'D), but I am confident enough in the vast majority that I am not hesitating to share the bulk of them. This is all just for fun and I will absolutely be back with the final teams when we have proper internal data for it, but I love picking apart stuff like this on my own!!!
UPDATE: Yung Dramps made a really cool observation that I wanted to integrate!!
Based on the fact that some doubles bosses (but not singles ones) list exactly the same set multiple times, in conjunction with the pattern I noticed earlier on set ordering for the doubles bosses (boss A/boss B/A/B/A/B/A/B/A/B/A/B/A/B for all 12), he has proposed that the doubles bosses' Pokémon are meant to be paired in specific ways - teams will always be generated such that Roark's first Pokémon is paired with Byron's first Pokémon, Roark's second with Byron's second, and so on!
I will be revising the sheet to make clearer which sets are paired in these ways momentarily - I'm so glad he pointed that out, because I think it makes total sense!! O:
Yung Dramps and I were speculating on Battle Tower boss teams for want of any actual datamined set rosters (we still don't have those sadly)
and I was thinking "hey, I remember noticing Palmer's Pokémon were all close-ish together - I wonder if any other bosses' known Pokémon are positioned near potential teammates?"
so we both started looking for suspicious groups of Pokémon, and I happened to notice a very clear pattern that made it really, really obvious that a section of the set list was dedicated specifically to... 30 boss teams in a row, corresponding exactly (and in exactly the right order) to the same 30 teams we already knew were supposed to be bosses in the Battle Tower.
For reference:
This is the original sheet I was looking at - this sheet is not by me, but by /u/kenniky on Reddit! (I was going to wait to make my own Battle Tower sheet until we had solid datamining pointing to which Trainers had which sets and when they could appear, but someone had it formatted already and I was curious to explore the sets!)
To explain the pattern I found, let's take a look at like 752 - you'll see nine sets of Rock-types in a row (including two Rampardos), followed by an alternating pattern of one Rock-type, then one Steel-type, then one Rock-type, then one Steel-type until twelve more Pokémon (six Rock and six Steel, including two Rampardos and two Bastiodon) have been covered. Then right afterwards, there are nine sets of Grass-types in a row (including two Roserade)...
Across all of the last 210 lines of data, there is a clear pattern of 9 Pokémon for the single battle bosses of the Tower, followed immediately by 6 pairs of Pokémon for the double battle bosses of the tower. The double battle bosses also specifically alternate between the two Trainers in a perfectly consistent order (boss A/boss B/A/B/A/B/A/B/A/B/A/B/A/B for all 12) - there were absolutely no judgment calls made in attributing six Pokémon to each boss, and it's clear that the developers mostly inserted sets in a consistent way!
These account for all 30 teams we expected to find, have consistent numbers between single battles and double battles, and are even in the known rank order, making it very clear that this data is organized the way it is for a reason and it probably corresponds to those bosses!
This is the original sheet I was looking at - this sheet is not by me, but by /u/kenniky on Reddit! (I was going to wait to make my own Battle Tower sheet until we had solid datamining pointing to which Trainers had which sets and when they could appear, but someone had it formatted already and I was curious to explore the sets!)
To explain the pattern I found, let's take a look at like 752 - you'll see nine sets of Rock-types in a row (including two Rampardos), followed by an alternating pattern of one Rock-type, then one Steel-type, then one Rock-type, then one Steel-type until twelve more Pokémon (six Rock and six Steel, including two Rampardos and two Bastiodon) have been covered. Then right afterwards, there are nine sets of Grass-types in a row (including two Roserade)...
Across all of the last 210 lines of data, there is a clear pattern of 9 Pokémon for the single battle bosses of the Tower, followed immediately by 6 pairs of Pokémon for the double battle bosses of the tower. The double battle bosses also specifically alternate between the two Trainers in a perfectly consistent order (boss A/boss B/A/B/A/B/A/B/A/B/A/B/A/B for all 12) - there were absolutely no judgment calls made in attributing six Pokémon to each boss, and it's clear that the developers mostly inserted sets in a consistent way!
These account for all 30 teams we expected to find, have consistent numbers between single battles and double battles, and are even in the known rank order, making it very clear that this data is organized the way it is for a reason and it probably corresponds to those bosses!
That said, I need to qualify this - while it is mostly very obvious that these teams belong to the people I'm suggesting they do, there are a small handful of one-off exceptions that don't make sense. I have chosen to leave these intact but annotate them with comments highlighting that they are out of place, rather than make any arbitrary exceptions to the "pattern" I noticed, to make it clear how compelling the raw data is without any changes whatsoever and instead remind people that this data may not have a perfect 1:1 correlation after all.
The only obviously weird ones were:
- Mira and Cheryl (as the rank 2 doubles bosses) - Mira's 6 Pokémon by following the alternating pattern are clearly meant for her, but Cheryl then also ends up with three Pokémon that belonged to Mira in the past and it seems like they might not have the same 6-6 split as the other bosses...? NO I'M JUST DUMB! Thank you R_N for confirming-- Cheryl is using only Pokémon she already had in DPPt, just ones that happened to overlap with Mira's!
That makes this WAY easier that was the one I was worried about
- Fantina's ninth Pokémon (as the rank 5 singles boss)... uhhh wait 'til you see it haha
- Saturn and Jupiter (as the rank 4 doubles bosses) - Saturn has a Skuntank that I would assume is probably meant for Jupiter...? but note that Saturn is made into a Poison specialist here, and Jupiter does also have a Skuntank, so it's not like he was taking it from her - unlike the other two, this might be an actual choice, just a weird one!
That makes this WAY easier that was the one I was worried about
- Fantina's ninth Pokémon (as the rank 5 singles boss)... uhhh wait 'til you see it haha
- Saturn and Jupiter (as the rank 4 doubles bosses) - Saturn has a Skuntank that I would assume is probably meant for Jupiter...? but note that Saturn is made into a Poison specialist here, and Jupiter does also have a Skuntank, so it's not like he was taking it from her - unlike the other two, this might be an actual choice, just a weird one!
All of that is to say... this is all very speculative and there are clearly some exceptions to the pattern (these teams are not 100% accurate to the real ones), buuut I also thought it was cool as heck information and I wanted to post it anyway!
Here are my observations (speculative Battle Tower boss teams)
Despite the weird edge cases above muddying things a little, this actually gives us some really cool stuff - highlights include:
- Gardenia using Mow Rotom, a Pokémon that not only is found in the Old Chateau that so terrifies her but was Ghost-type in Gen IV, which is freaking hilarious to me - this is clearly a joke in the same vein as teaming her up with Fantina later, and I love it!
- Candice seizing the opportunity to grab a Regice - fitting for the Snowpoint Gym Leader!
- Saturn and Jupiter becoming type specialists for Poison and Dark, two types Sinnoh didn't already have in its League! (For the most part, Trainers who were already monotype stayed that way, and Trainers who were not already monotype stayed that way, so this feels like a really interesting and deliberate choice; I like that they allowed themselves to make wacky choices and didn't force that for everyone, but in turn, that makes it more special in a way to see the cases when ILCA's take on a character specifically deviates from Game Freak's like this!)
- Mars's new team having some really cute synergy with Cyrus: it took me a moment to understand her surprise pick of a Raichu, but it's playing Lightning Rod support for his Gyarados!
- and Cyrus fINALLY using a Rotom for himself!! For those who don't know, he's meant to be the kid from the story in Rotom's room - he's the person who discovered Rotom and its ability to enter motors, and that's why he has a special interaction with the Rotom dex in USUM! this is not super well known information, and most people assume the kid from the story was Charon because you also find a more detached and scientific notebook from him, but this is apparently clearer in the original text and Cyrus has been associated with Rotom many times since.
... Oh, yeah, and he has an Entei now I guess!
- Candice seizing the opportunity to grab a Regice - fitting for the Snowpoint Gym Leader!
- Saturn and Jupiter becoming type specialists for Poison and Dark, two types Sinnoh didn't already have in its League! (For the most part, Trainers who were already monotype stayed that way, and Trainers who were not already monotype stayed that way, so this feels like a really interesting and deliberate choice; I like that they allowed themselves to make wacky choices and didn't force that for everyone, but in turn, that makes it more special in a way to see the cases when ILCA's take on a character specifically deviates from Game Freak's like this!)
- Mars's new team having some really cute synergy with Cyrus: it took me a moment to understand her surprise pick of a Raichu, but it's playing Lightning Rod support for his Gyarados!
- and Cyrus fINALLY using a Rotom for himself!! For those who don't know, he's meant to be the kid from the story in Rotom's room - he's the person who discovered Rotom and its ability to enter motors, and that's why he has a special interaction with the Rotom dex in USUM! this is not super well known information, and most people assume the kid from the story was Charon because you also find a more detached and scientific notebook from him, but this is apparently clearer in the original text and Cyrus has been associated with Rotom many times since.
... Oh, yeah, and he has an Entei now I guess!
Anyway, I am super excited to have uncovered this and I wanted to share it : D
Remember that these are not necessarily the exact teams they will use in the game and there are clear signs of edge cases for Fantina and Mira/Cheryl in particular (maybe they just only wanted Fantina to have 8 sets, or maybe she'll pull her ninth from somewhere else on the table and the Dragonite is a mistake - and no I honestly couldn't tell you what the deal was with Mira and Cheryl :'D), but I am confident enough in the vast majority that I am not hesitating to share the bulk of them. This is all just for fun and I will absolutely be back with the final teams when we have proper internal data for it, but I love picking apart stuff like this on my own!!!
UPDATE: Yung Dramps made a really cool observation that I wanted to integrate!!
Based on the fact that some doubles bosses (but not singles ones) list exactly the same set multiple times, in conjunction with the pattern I noticed earlier on set ordering for the doubles bosses (boss A/boss B/A/B/A/B/A/B/A/B/A/B/A/B for all 12), he has proposed that the doubles bosses' Pokémon are meant to be paired in specific ways - teams will always be generated such that Roark's first Pokémon is paired with Byron's first Pokémon, Roark's second with Byron's second, and so on!
I will be revising the sheet to make clearer which sets are paired in these ways momentarily - I'm so glad he pointed that out, because I think it makes total sense!! O:
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God it's definitely bizarre that they have Pokemon with sets that are "illegal" in BDSP proper. They usually do make a point to avoid that, aside occasional flubs like Anabel's Zap Cannon Espeon and a few trainers with mons with Curse in HGSS. It's funny because it's not even a result of hard-porting BDSP sets but rather getting ahead of compatibility.
That said, honestly, that seems to point to two-way compatibility more than anything else so far.
That said, honestly, that seems to point to two-way compatibility more than anything else so far.
I don't think Cheryl is an anomaly
Cheryl DP BT Ally: Snorlax, Espeon, Umbreon, Porygon2, Blissey, Milotic, Latias, Latios, Gastrodon, Porygon-Z, Cresselia
Cheryle BDSP BT Boss: Umbreon, Blissey, Porygon-Z, Latios
It looks like they picked 2 of her iconic walls and then 2 of her "surprise I actually have offensive options" pokemon.
The fact Cheryl specifically had that level of overlap with Mira (who also had access to Latios & Porygon-Z as you noted) might specifically be why she got paired with Mira
Here's something I can envision myself using. My tastes have gotten very picky for some reason recently, but I quite like these offerings. Assuming Gardevoir is even available in BDSP, I might try some sort of Trick Room shenanigans with Torterra and Rampardos. If not, I'll use Mew. I might do an alternating thing with Manaphy instead of Floatzel, but I feel obligated to use Floatzel cause of an inside joke I have with my friend (also I love Floatzel). I might use Heracross instead of Toxicroak but I dunno, don't know if I like him yet.
If Dragonite wasn't just an insertion error (which I think is the most likely answer), I........guess.....it could be a weird reference to a DLC PWT team where she had Giratina? And they wanted her to still have a dragon??
????
Can't even say it was "meant" to be with Palmer just because it has the same set as ones he has: there's plenty of teams that have that kind of overlap
????
Can't even say it was "meant" to be with Palmer just because it has the same set as ones he has: there's plenty of teams that have that kind of overlap
Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
All joking aside, I think I might have actually figured out a hilarious theory for what happened with Dragonite. While looking over Fantina's Pokemon I noticed Drifblim is missing. It's totally possible that on whatever interface they used the person manned at the desk so to speak typed in "Dr" and accidentally picked the autocomplete for "Dragonite" instead of "Drifblim", then passing it on to the actual set designer who was none the wiser.
That would be an interesting error for a Japanese company to make
Wow, plain awesomeness, you guys rock!!!
I really like the idea of Jupiter and Saturn becoming type specjalists. They could've make the same with Cyrus and Mars making them Flying and Normal type specjalists accordingly.
Still the Mars&Cyrus pair seems like fun.
I love Flint and Volkner both having a Rotom, should've had them in the rematch Teams which would make them even harder. Same with Gardenia. Cyrus got many fire types but not his Pt Houndoom. A bit sad Palmer Has no new Pokemon besides his main 6.
Looking on Pokemon variaty I prefer these Teams to the USUM Battle Tree tbh where Wally had like 3 different Pokemon.
Let's Hope all of this gets confirmed soon:-)
CTNC
Doesn't know how to attack
Something that just hit me is Luxray's Level Up Moves sucking after Level 20 isn't a very big deal because you can buy Thunderbolt TMs. (Making TMs single use but giving out multiple of the best ones was a mistake since it ruins the point of making them single use and makes TMs cheaper to buy.) Its 120 Attack is nice if you can use it, but 95 Special Attack is still pretty good and Volt Switch is very nice for when you need to switch to something that has a movepool. Still a problem for me though because I need to use a TM if I want Swagger because it's Level 72 instead of DP's Level 28... There's some small but good reasons I'm not completely sure if I want this game or want it to burn in more fire than it has. (They had their chance to live down Sinnoh's Fire type problem, but no, they had to make Magby version exclusive.)
If I get this game, my team will be Torterra, Luxray, Roserade, Dusclops, Drapion, and I don't know what the last Pokemon would be. Maybe Gastrodon or Hippowdon? Dialga is tempting, but that seems almost like easy mode in a hard mode game. I could just save a slot for a Shiny Pokemon if I find one, but I'd probably go with Dialga in the very likely case that I don't find one. Skuntank is also tempting even though it's another Poison/Dark just because it only has one weakness. Probably Skuntank because it's version exclusive.
You're overestimating how overpowered shared Exp is. You're going to be underleveled, need grinding, or it's going to reward lower levels such a bonus against higher levels that it will somehow balance out. I'm guessing you won't believe me about the shared Exp if this works without grinding. I'm not saying don't do this. If anything, I want to see how this goes. I'm pretty sure the BDSP Viability Ranking thread would love you when it's made. Most people don't give opinions on more than 6 Pokemon from just one playthrough.
I've got an idea for something extra if you weren't planing on doing it already, save before Gym leaders and soft reset when you win then beat them again with a different group of Pokemon in your team until you've won with everyone against the Gym. At the very least, please get all 30 of them in the Hall of Fame. I'd love to see that.
If I get this game, my team will be Torterra, Luxray, Roserade, Dusclops, Drapion, and I don't know what the last Pokemon would be. Maybe Gastrodon or Hippowdon? Dialga is tempting, but that seems almost like easy mode in a hard mode game. I could just save a slot for a Shiny Pokemon if I find one, but I'd probably go with Dialga in the very likely case that I don't find one. Skuntank is also tempting even though it's another Poison/Dark just because it only has one weakness. Probably Skuntank because it's version exclusive.
I never thought about how crazy your plan of rotating 30 Pokemon was until I saw your team. You're nuts, dude. lol
You're overestimating how overpowered shared Exp is. You're going to be underleveled, need grinding, or it's going to reward lower levels such a bonus against higher levels that it will somehow balance out. I'm guessing you won't believe me about the shared Exp if this works without grinding. I'm not saying don't do this. If anything, I want to see how this goes. I'm pretty sure the BDSP Viability Ranking thread would love you when it's made. Most people don't give opinions on more than 6 Pokemon from just one playthrough.
I've got an idea for something extra if you weren't planing on doing it already, save before Gym leaders and soft reset when you win then beat them again with a different group of Pokemon in your team until you've won with everyone against the Gym. At the very least, please get all 30 of them in the Hall of Fame. I'd love to see that.
I'm impressed you had a pic for a Ghost/Dragon Dragonite joke that didn't need editing.Dragon/Ghost Hisuian Dragonite confirmed!
This is what my ideal team would look like. I almost always choose Pokémon native to the region since it makes the game feel more memorable, and I have a fairly formulaic approach to in-game teams.
I always go for a FWG core in-game and the rarity of fire types makes Infernape my ideal choice, especially since it’s my favorite Sinnoh starter. Roserade is one of my favorite grass types and Budew can be caught early and easily. Manaphy is extremely good and it saves me the trouble of having to use another Sinnoh-native water type since most of them are bad. Sometimes I’ll just GTS trade to get all the starters and use them as my core. That was very fun in USUM.
I usually get a flying type too, so having one of the best early-game birds in Staraptor is perfect. I also like to go for an electric type if there are any decent options, and Electivire fits. Sadly it’s a pain in the ass to acquire, as is Magnezone, so Luxray is a more realistic choice. The Shinx would ideally come from the Grand Underground so it can have coverage from an egg move since its movepool is otherwise trash. Ground types are always nice and I like Garchomp’s line a lot so that’s an easy choice too. Ironically it’s more accessible than Hippowdon and Rhyperior despite being a pseudo-legend.
For me, there are bonus points for no type overlap since I dislike redundancy.
Some other mons I considered were Togekiss, Lucario, a Rotom appliance variant, Weavile, and Mamoswine. Availability inconvenience, especially from their access being restricted to later in the game, is primarily why I decided against them.
This is what happens when you try to use new mons after playing Platinum 10 times...
Infernape/Gardevoir/Bastiodon I've used before, but it feels wrong not to use a starter on my first playthrough of a "new" game, I haven't used Gardevoir since it became a Fairy, and Bastiodon...I just felt like using Bastiodon again. Postgame is probably going to be murder (shout-outs to Carnivine getting nothing new after 15 years), but I'll find a way. Hopefully.
1. Because it cant learn Iron Head in BDSP at the moment or
2. If it can (i haven't checked) because they thought of poison jab and put it. That's it.
Besides Pickup, it's guaranteed on the Underground. Murkrow and Misdreavus are much more viable now.
Do we know when Jirachi will be available for in game purpose ?
Oh, don't worry, I know what you mean... and I've seen that in Sword/Shield and Let's GO, albeit with parties of a lower size.
Yes, you WILL be underleveled unless you grind (or use the Exp. Candies in the former)... but that's a grinding situation that has been caused by my own actions, and not something the game expects me to do, so I don't mind.
Unless I'm mistaken, as soon as you get to Floaroma.
I'll be using one of these 3 teams, haven't decided yet:
I must say that the encounters not being like Platinum messed the teambuilding a bit. I'd like to use Rotom before the HoF. And I really hope that feebas doesn't have bullshit encounters like it had in DP and they pick a ORAS style encounter method.
Team 1:
Team 2:
Team 3:
Team 2:
Team 3:
I must say that the encounters not being like Platinum messed the teambuilding a bit. I'd like to use Rotom before the HoF. And I really hope that feebas doesn't have bullshit encounters like it had in DP and they pick a ORAS style encounter method.
Say, why is the Dusclops unevolved? Do you like it more than Dusknoir?