I believe Flying is a good start, as it is immune to Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and several other key moves. However, Normal, Ghost, and Rock/Steel are right behind that. The metagame is lacking a Normal/Flying type, as well.
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CAP 9 CAP 9 - Main Typing Discussion
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I'm supporting Flying as well. It has great resists to secondary moves such as Leech Seed, Spikes, and Toxic Spikes. This should be seconded by Fighting, Ground, or Steel. These are the three types that resist Stealth Rock. I am in favor of Fighting because to stop other Pokemon from using secondary moves, KO'ing them before they use the moves is a good option. Fighting STAB would help to defeat Skarmory (Spikes), Blissey (Stealth Rock/Thunder Wave), and a few other Pokemon that commonly use secondary moves.
Summary:
Flying/Fighting
-Flying:provides resists to many secondary moves
-Fighting:cancels Flying's weakness to Stealth Rock, hits many secondary Pokemon for Super Effective Damage
Summary:
Flying/Fighting
-Flying:provides resists to many secondary moves
-Fighting:cancels Flying's weakness to Stealth Rock, hits many secondary Pokemon for Super Effective Damage
How does Flying resist Leech Seed? Is it because its STAB beats Grass types? That's probably what you meant.
Flying is a poor choice in my eyes, SR weakness, plus Ice/Electric weakness. Most Special Attackers carry Thunderbolt or Ice Beam. Most Special Attackers are also secondary users. You don't want to come in to stop the secondary move only to get Tbolted to the face. Not worth it.
@thebattleax: There are too many Normal/Flying types that already exist, and Staraptor is a good example. Flying is not a good choice. (also since this is the main type, it would become flying/x not x/flying)
This is all true. However, it was mentioned many times in the Concept thread that you can't switch in and taunt on the same turn. How does it 'Stop the Secondary', when it is, in fact, susceptible to the secondary itself? I believe even moi, the concept creater, said that he did not make it with taunt being the primary focus since it can't be used on the switch-in, iirc. If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me.
Substitute also suffers the same issue as Taunt, mainly being that you already have to be in to use it. I don't feel it would be worthwhile to go through the entire CAP process only to end up with something that is "The Best Taunter" or "The Best Subpasser." There are so many more things it can do to help prevent status as a whole, as neither of those allow it to switch in easily. It would add even more pressure to the typing and ability if the main focus was made to be Taunt or Substitute.
Well, I just want to point out that in my previous post I listed Steel as a secondary typing. (Not really poll jumping here, but meh...) The point is, with a Steel secondary typing Flying becomes neutral to SR and enjoys taking neutral to Ice and Rock. The only one to worry about would be Electric. It could also have a viable move to deal with those Special Boltbeam attackers as well, for who knows what it's moveset will end up as?
I agree with Normal/Flying, or Flying/Normal being a bad choice overall. It doesn't provide anything at all to the concept.
EDIT: Also, I see that Thunderbolt would be an issue, with 44% of Latias running it during August, and Rotom-A getting stab on it.
I'm throwing Ground into the mix. It is immune to Electric (So most Paralysis) and Sandstorm (Which is extremely common), while also resisting Rock; ie Stealth Rock. This provides us with two important aspects that this CAP wants: An immunity to status, and a resistance to SR. Furthermore, Ground is only weak to 3 type: Grass, Water, and Ice
The reasoning for Dark is a STAB pursuit to punish Trick users switching out defenselessly. But the fact that they're switching out and that you switched in for free is reward enough. You have a free turn to do whatever you want. You can set up a move (Like Safeguard, which is underrated) or you can attack with a powerful move to hit the switch-in (And STAB Earthquake hurts). And nobody ever said you have to be a Dark type to abuse Pursuit. *CoughScizorCough*
Edit: Ground over Steel because the Fighting, Fire, and Ground(>=]) weaknesses are too much, and pretty severe compared to Ice, Grass, and Water
The reasoning for Dark is a STAB pursuit to punish Trick users switching out defenselessly. But the fact that they're switching out and that you switched in for free is reward enough. You have a free turn to do whatever you want. You can set up a move (Like Safeguard, which is underrated) or you can attack with a powerful move to hit the switch-in (And STAB Earthquake hurts). And nobody ever said you have to be a Dark type to abuse Pursuit. *CoughScizorCough*
Edit: Ground over Steel because the Fighting, Fire, and Ground(>=]) weaknesses are too much, and pretty severe compared to Ice, Grass, and Water
Steel I think is the best option for main typing. Asa others have said, Toxic Spikes immunity and Sandstorm immunity plus Stealth Rock resist really makes stopping the secondary easier. So far, this is the best typing suggestion, IMO.
What exactly do you mean by that? Of the special attackers seen most often (Heatran, Infernape, Latias, Gengar, Starmie, Rotom-h, Magnezone), only Rotom-a (Will-o-wisp, Trick) and Latias commonly run a secondary attack. In Latias's case, that move is Trick, which is only used 20% of the time.
The only real issue I have with Steel as the main typing is that, while it may be immune and resistant to entry hazards and Toxic, it doesn't really fit the idea of "Stop the Secondary." If the concept was "Immune to the Secondary", I'd see Steel as a more viable main typing. Otherwise, I feel it should be relegated to a secondary typing until the first type is sorted out.
Again, "Immune to the Secondary" is a crucial part of "Stop the Secondary"; definitely at least 50% of the concept rests on being immune to a variety of secondary effects.
I'm aware that it should be immune to to status as well, otherwise this whole concept would be for naught. As you can see, I advocated Steel in my posts as well. I'm just trying to get others to think about the concept from varying points. As I said somewhere before, I don't think it should just turn into "Dark for STAB Pursuit vs. Steel because it has nice resistances and immunities", simply for those stated reasons. Also, my main problem was Steel as a main typing.
I thought Flying types are immune to LS?
Steel/Fighting/Rock Typing give neutral to SR.
If you've been paying attention, I've said that being immune to 2 types of residual damage help it stay in battle longer, taking the point out of secondaries (which is to force switches). As you can see, it totally fits the idea of Stop the Secondary.
I've also said that we shouldn't leave Steel for later because of its priority (sort out the defensive type first) especially if Dark manages to get elected.
I'm going to show support for ground here.
I figure that magic guard is a very possible ability here, and T-Wave would be one of the more threatening status effects to a magic guard Pokemon, burn, and confusion being others since their side effect still hurts(though burn is useless against special attackers with magic guard).
My second choice would be FIRE since its immunity to burn stops it from getting an attack reduction from burns.
I figure that magic guard is a very possible ability here, and T-Wave would be one of the more threatening status effects to a magic guard Pokemon, burn, and confusion being others since their side effect still hurts(though burn is useless against special attackers with magic guard).
My second choice would be FIRE since its immunity to burn stops it from getting an attack reduction from burns.
I have been paying attention. Reliable recovery can also assure that a pokemon will stay in battle longer. Typing doesn't always necessitate longevity. The UU Steels are a primary example of this. Outside of rest, they have no reliable method for which to recover their HP. If Steel as a main typing would allow for CAP9 to receive reliable recovery, then I am all for it.
Sustaining life and being able to take a hit are just as important as being immune to the status. If it faints too soon for it to make an impact on the battle, then it would be as if it wasn't immune in the first place.
umm... no.
Flying types are not immune to Leech Seed in any way.
Also, Rock does not resist Rock.
I'm holding out on the idea of types being used to stop status, since there are other ways to deal with status that would allow us some broader options.
Dark seems solid, as it takes on many of the Secondary and Trick users in the first place. Offensively - solid. Though it may not be too solid a typing to work with defensively unless it gets really good benefits in Secondary typing or stats. Pretty good if we want to go down the Offense path.
Ground also seems pretty solid as a balanced decision. It gets TWave immunity, SR resistance, and SS resistance without too many weaknesses. It's got a STAB EQ to help itself out, but Ground is going to need heavy support from other areas, so I see its benefits as being more icing-on-the-cake. But still, Ground could be a sturdy base to work off of, though it'd have to have plenty of back up in polls as soon as secondary typing. I think we could pull this off.
Flying seems ew because, while you're getting TS/Spikes immunity, you're trading that for an SR weakness, which may not be that great a tradeoff. Flying's more of a supporting typing in my opinion, so I think maybe we should hold off on deciding that as our primary type.
Dark seems solid, as it takes on many of the Secondary and Trick users in the first place. Offensively - solid. Though it may not be too solid a typing to work with defensively unless it gets really good benefits in Secondary typing or stats. Pretty good if we want to go down the Offense path.
Ground also seems pretty solid as a balanced decision. It gets TWave immunity, SR resistance, and SS resistance without too many weaknesses. It's got a STAB EQ to help itself out, but Ground is going to need heavy support from other areas, so I see its benefits as being more icing-on-the-cake. But still, Ground could be a sturdy base to work off of, though it'd have to have plenty of back up in polls as soon as secondary typing. I think we could pull this off.
Flying seems ew because, while you're getting TS/Spikes immunity, you're trading that for an SR weakness, which may not be that great a tradeoff. Flying's more of a supporting typing in my opinion, so I think maybe we should hold off on deciding that as our primary type.
Seeing as you make such a lovely point, how do other types do better than Steel in this regard? As far as anyone's concerned, the immunities still give an edge because COUPLED with a good recovery move, they can ensure longevity. And as far as this CAP is concerned, any type can learn any move. I mean, would it be so controversial if a Steel type had access to Recover? Or maybe Slack Off?
I'm advocating Dark and Normal.
I quality I respect in both these types is the lack of weaknesses. This Pokemon needs to be able to switch in to be able to start fulfilling its concept. Both of these types accomplish this, plus all the points brought up by others which I won't bother restating.
I quality I respect in both these types is the lack of weaknesses. This Pokemon needs to be able to switch in to be able to start fulfilling its concept. Both of these types accomplish this, plus all the points brought up by others which I won't bother restating.
Depending on the bulk, or relative flavor off the CAP after its completion, I would not say those moves are so farfetched. So long as that would be the end result, my fears would be allayed. As I said, I'm not denoting Steel as a type in general. It's the lack of recovery that I feel would cause issue.
I'm back, and I'm going to announce the three types that have made it to the next round:
Dark
Ground
Normal
Sorry for everyone else who vouched for a different typing, however I believe that these three are the best options for main typing of CAP. Emphasis on main, since there are great ways we can find immunities in other aspects of this CAP. I'm still leaving this thread open, and it will stay open until the main typing is decided. I urge you to keep arguing, although you should keep discussion only to Normal/Ground/Dark right now. Depending on how this discussion goes, you may possibly influence the polls!
Dark
Ground
Normal
Sorry for everyone else who vouched for a different typing, however I believe that these three are the best options for main typing of CAP. Emphasis on main, since there are great ways we can find immunities in other aspects of this CAP. I'm still leaving this thread open, and it will stay open until the main typing is decided. I urge you to keep arguing, although you should keep discussion only to Normal/Ground/Dark right now. Depending on how this discussion goes, you may possibly influence the polls!
I dont think we should really consider for a Dark/Normal mix as that come with a hefty 4x fighting weakness, and a 4x weakness to anything is never really good. I think Dark/Ground would be much better because it is immune to sandstorm, resists SR, and if we give it levitate, is immune to spike and ts.
With main typings narrowed down to 3 types, I'd like to shift my support to Ground. Like Steel, it has Sandstorm immunity, SR resistance and its own immunity is Electric. Since Steel is out of the question, a Ground CAP9 might need a different direction.
Maybe this CAP can take a (relatively) offensive direction (its secondary typing can help out). STAB Earthquake is a great asset. It is a good move overall and hits Poison, Electric, Steel, Fire and Rock for supereffective damage.
To meet the arguments for Normal, I'd like to say that for the purposes of stopping the secondary, Normal is out of the question. The "low weaknesses" argument counts Normal as being the only type which doesn't help with the concept.
This time, Dark and Ground are on more or less equal footing. The thing that makes Ground stand out is its immunityh to Twave. This is important because when we choose Dark, we are obviously saying it will be offensive (taking down ghosts and Trick users), but its job will be hindered by Twave.
A Dark/Ground typing may be viable, but Ground is too important to leave till last.
Maybe this CAP can take a (relatively) offensive direction (its secondary typing can help out). STAB Earthquake is a great asset. It is a good move overall and hits Poison, Electric, Steel, Fire and Rock for supereffective damage.
To meet the arguments for Normal, I'd like to say that for the purposes of stopping the secondary, Normal is out of the question. The "low weaknesses" argument counts Normal as being the only type which doesn't help with the concept.
This time, Dark and Ground are on more or less equal footing. The thing that makes Ground stand out is its immunityh to Twave. This is important because when we choose Dark, we are obviously saying it will be offensive (taking down ghosts and Trick users), but its job will be hindered by Twave.
A Dark/Ground typing may be viable, but Ground is too important to leave till last.
We don't pick two types from the 3, we pick 1 for now and discuss the 2nd later. It can be anything.
I still like Ground, it's a strong base offensively and defensively, especially for what we want to do. Things like Flygon can absorb Trick all day so it's not out of the question for a Ground type.
I think Ground provides a little of everything we want it CAP9, Dark is too focused on offense for my tastes, but it's perfectly viable.
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