CAP 9 CAP 9 - Part 3 - Secondary Typing Poll

[Hegna]

But that can easily be left to the ability. There's no point in voting ground because it's immune to electric if the ability would make it immune to t-wave anyway. And I believe it will because otherwise we stop a maximum of, say, two secondary effects (assuming ground type and flash fire or an equivalent ability), which doesn't really fulfill the concept.

I do see your point, but I personally don't see how Fighting adds to the goal at all.
Plus I find it silly to have a typing that doesn't really contribute saying that "the ability will do it for us".

There's only so much an ability can do, and the typing should be helping towards this goal. I think that just saying that the ability will do it for us is just putting off the goal until later, and just giving it a better overall typing now rather than taking account of our goal.

I do understand that an ability can help, but I find it weird for our typing to do so little for our goal.

 

[MetalGearSamus]

Voted Poison because it does more stopping of the secondary.
Yes ground has immunities to Sandstorm but Poison actually absorbs toxic/toxic spikes, stopping them completely.

 

[familyguyman]

Almost a third of the way through (based on Main Type poll). I really hope Ground doesn't make it, I think we will regret the decision (though I'll gladly be proven wrong). I seriously question a Dark/Ground's ability to switch in on attacks. Even if it has Rapid Spin, Toxic Spikes will screw it, like Donphan. The benefits just aren't enough.

I also wonder if the sudden drop in Fighting support is due to Doug's comment or something else.

 

[Kamen Rider]

It was a tough choice between Ground and Poison, but I ended up choosing Ground. I just feel like speed will be important and ensure it is well protected against that is going to be important.

 

[Korski]

Originally Posted by Fat Hegna
There's only so much an ability can do, and the typing should be helping towards this goal. I think that just saying that the ability will do it for us is just putting off the goal until later, and just giving it a better overall typing now rather than taking account of our goal.

I do understand that an ability can help, but I find it weird for our typing to do so little for our goal.

Typing isn't really the best place to be picking up immunities to secondary moves. First of all, you aren't going to yield a "variety" of ways to stop the secondary, more like one or two (and if you think one more SS and T-Wave immunity is going to stop the use of SS and T-Wave in OU, you'll be quite disappointed once playtesting comes around). I feel like this has been brought up so many times already, but I'll say it again: immunities to secondary moves do not equate to "stopping the secondary." At the very best, you've stopped it for that turn, like any other Ground-Type would.

I think abilities and moves are where we should begin to have the freedom to customize what types of secondary moves should be effectively "stopped" by CaP9 (customized to fit the team, of course, not just the CaP). Heal Bell would do a much better job stopping T-Wave than a Ground typing, since a T-Wave spammer won't keep spamming T-Wave if it knows you can just come in and heal all your teammates in one move. Rapid Spin on a Dark Type with really only a fighting weakness is one of the best Spinners I could conceive of outside of wasting an ability on Scrappy. A Speedy Taunt on a switch could really ruin a stall strategy. Klutz + Scarf + Trick means you can switch in on just about any Trick ever and screw over your opponent.

I feel like a lot of people are of the mindset that this is one of our last chances to fulfill the concept or else it fails, when in reality we should just be forming a great base around which to "stop the secondary." IMO, Dark/Fighting is a new type combo that fits with the concept thus far better than the other options. Defensively and offensively, it is superior to Ground and Poison, even getting the covetted SR resist (I'd like to add that SR is the ONLY secondary attack you can expect to see every battle and, thus, the only one we are 100% obligated to address).

 

[billymills]

I was tempted to vote poison, but Beej convinced me. Fighting is also a joke, I don't get what, if anything, it brings to this CaP. With ground, we are obviously going in a very offensive direction, and I hope we'll stick to it.

 

[Elevator Music]

Ground. "For reasons people already said."

But more specifically it's a nice offensive typing that can kinda switch in on some key pokes with the right stats (think Tyranitar, Stratagem, etc.), resistance to SR, immunity to SS, and immunity to TWave. That's a lot of stuff off the list of 'secondary' already...

 

[mudkip72]

Voted Fighting for coverage, SR resistance, and lack of weaknesses.

I could care less whatever way this ends up, In the end, the typing probaly won't really effect the ability of CAP9 to stop secondary effects. Thats going to all come down to ability and movepool.

 

[Leman]

I voted Poison. TSpike absorption + neutrality to Fighting/Bug are really what got me. Many common trickers run Fighting attacks (Gengar, Alakazam), and U-turn (Jirachi), so switching in to those trickers becomes a lot easier. The TSpikes absorbtion make Rapid Spinning Enrty Hazards a lot easier, since it wont be crippled for the rest of the game if it wants to spin TSPikes. Another secondary effect that hasnt been mentioned much, is Leech seed. STAB poison attacks can scare Seeders away. Besides, Poison only gives it one common wekness, while Ground nets a nasty five. So yeah, vote for Poison. D:

 

[Davros6000]

I voted Poison. TSpike absorption + neutrality to Fighting/Bug are really what got me. Many common trickers run Fighting attacks (Gengar, Alakazam), and U-turn (Jirachi), so switching in to those trickers becomes a lot easier. The TSpikes absorbtion make Rapid Spinning Enrty Hazards a lot easier, since it wont be crippled for the rest of the game if it wants to spin TSPikes. Another secondary effect that hasnt been mentioned much, is Leech seed. STAB poison attacks can scare Seeders away. Besides, Poison only gives it one common wekness, while Ground nets a nasty five. So yeah, vote for Poison. D:

These are all exelant reasons, and the same reasons why i voted for poison, such a nice type.

 

[Umbreon Dan]

One thing CAP has taught me is that Fighting is a really great type. The fact that we see it almost every cap is solid proof. Unfortunately, another thing that CAP has taught me is that Fighting-typed Pokemon tend not to have such great STAB moves. Swampert is still sometimes used in the CAP metagame because it hits much harder with Earthquake than Arghonaut possibly can with Brick Break. If this CAP is looking to turn out offensively, which it seems to be, then I think the only real option is Ground.

(By the way, Beej, Ground doesn't give it a Rock immunity. Sorry)

 

[ferron]

voted poison, due to its ability to absorb TS and threaten subseeders.

but seriously, i come back from 8 hours of work, and the discussion and poll for secondary typing were already made? we aren't even getting a full day's discussion?

 

[Infiltrator]

Well, after some thought, I gonna change my vote to Ground. As many others said, Ground offers immunity to Thunder Wave along with other electric attacks, Sand Storm, resistance against Stealth Rock, and some cool resistances.

 

[Stagnant]

So we're letting a flavor argument fly because Doug supports it?

Please bring something else to the table people. CAP is better than that.

Agreed. I'm voting for Fighting because of the resistance to Stealth Rock, offensive capabilities, and its unique set of resistances.

 

[Matthew]

I voted Poison for several reasons. Poison typing allows CAP9 to absorb Toxic Spikes, while being able to effectively counter Trick. Though this may not be enough to cover for the Ground-type weakness we now obtain, but with poison's useful resistances the number of times this pokemon can switch in is going to be increased.

 

[Superkid11]

My vote goes to Poison. Along with being able to absorb Toxic Spikes, it's generally a superior defensive type. This way, its only weakness is Ground. Every other weakness is covered by the combination.
Plus if this Pokemon gets Magic Guard or something like it, then it'll have SR, Sandstorm, and spikes immunity anyway.

 

[NoahAudubon]

I voted Ground because not only does it give us TWave immunity, but also immunity to most of the entry hazards as well. And, although it doesn't immediately deal with theme, the immunity to Sandstorm not only sets it up against Sandstorm teams, but makes making one an option as well, which I am in favor of.

 

[viol and bass]

I voted Ground because not only does it give us TWave immunity, but also immunity to most of the entry hazards as well. And, although it doesn't immediately deal with theme, the immunity to Sandstorm not only sets it up against Sandstorm teams, but makes making one an option as well, which I am in favor of.

Explain how ground type grants immunity to most entry hazards. As far as I know, there are three: spikes, toxic spikes, and stealth rock... and dark/ground gives immunity to none of them.

 

[familyguyman]

So if it's close like this at closing time, does Fighting get dropped and we vote between Poison and Ground?

I mean, as is, it's not impossible for Poison to win without Fighting there to take votes so I am curious as to the policy.

 

[Fuzznip]

So if it's close like this at closing time, does Fighting get dropped and we vote between Poison and Ground?

I mean, as is, it's not impossible for Poison to win without Fighting there to take votes so I am curious as to the policy.

If Ground receives more than 50% votes, then it will be picked and there won't be another poll. However, if it's below 50%, then there will be another poll with Poison.

 

[familyguyman]

If Ground receives more than 50% votes, then it will be picked and there won't be another poll. However, if it's below 50%, then there will be another poll with Poison.

Ah yes, that's what I thought. Thanks!

 

[zorbees]

Just as a note, it should be Part 3, not Part 2. See (http://www.smogon.com/cap/process/events/)

 

[Nosferalto]

With the metagame being so centralised around Steel types, I feel that Ground is needed to at least hit them with SE damage. Also, it gives a nice Stealth Rock resistance wich would make it a lot easier to switch-in.

 

[Admiral_Stalfos19]

As far as I know, there are three: spikes, toxic spikes, and stealth rock... and dark/ground gives immunity to none of them.

So you're saying that Dark is weak against Rock? Seeing Ground actually resists it?

Anyway, voting Dark/Ground because it takes down another 5/7 "secondary specialists" (depending on whether Gravity is involved), and for other reasons already mentioned.

 

[Superkid11]

So you're saying that Dark is weak against Rock? Seeing Ground actually resists it?

No, he's saying it doesn't give any immunities to those. All it gives is a resistance to Stealth Rock.