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For me, as a melee (and probably for anyone in Inferno, really), the worst mob type for sure has been the Invulnerable Minions. Close behind are Jailer, Waller, and Vampiric. Arcane Enchanted, Molten, Plagued, and Desecrator are all highly annoying but avoidable in most cases through either smart dodging or kiting (unless the mobs also have Vortex). Waller and Jailer can't really be played around much at all apart from popping invulnerability abilites and hoping for the best.
invulnerable minions in Inferno has to be the worst idea in video game balance i have seen ever. i play DH with my brother (Wizard) and every time we see a pack like that, we don't even bother to fight. die or run away and then avoid.
the second most annoying is Fast, as that fucks up anything and is really just generally annoying. and as a DH who is primarily dealing damage for us both, Reflect Damage is also some high level of bullshit. nothing like hitting yourself for 1000+ damage every time you attack.
all in all, Inferno is a crock of heavily unbalanced shit and it is all because of those 5 attribute Champ/Elite packs. and i haven't even beaten Act I yet (just beat the Spider Queen). don't know how much longer i will even bother playing.
They didn't expect players to be able to clear inferno mode for a month after launch it is supposed to be retaredly hard and present you with a challenge. Aside from invul minions most of the time i die on inferno because of a mistake i made. Most of the problems you face will be counter by gear thorns for example get life on hit done.
They didn't expect players to be able to clear inferno mode for a month after launch it is supposed to be retaredly hard and present you with a challenge. Aside from invul minions most of the time i die on inferno because of a mistake i made. Most of the problems you face will be counter by gear thorns for example get life on hit done.
then i sacrifice good gear and damage for that. even with Nether Tentacle spam (3% life drain, hitting for 50k crits consistently), i'm dying in seconds from my own damage to Reflect mobs. i'd need like +1500 life on hit to counter my own damage to myself...just for a specific ability.
also i fail to see how Thorns does any good. monsters 2hko you at most...and thorns do, what, 1000 damage?
They didn't expect players to be able to clear inferno mode for a month after launch it is supposed to be retaredly hard and present you with a challenge. Aside from invul minions most of the time i die on inferno because of a mistake i made. Most of the problems you face will be counter by gear thorns for example get life on hit done.
Class, skills, items and have you used the AH to get those items.
It's not a challenge when its a god damn brick wall and blizzard stealth nerfs the only thing keeping you alive and then goes on record to say we want people to feel powerful with certain OP builds.
You guys are a stereotypical gamer in every sense of the word you will bitch and moan that a game is too hard because you cant easily progress through it but when the game gets nerfed and you can clear everything then it will be to easy and you will lose interest. Inferno is supposed to be fucking hard and gear is supposed to be amazing. You are supposed to actually intelligently think about how your gear setup works with your skill choices. You want to talk about op builds that DH crit build seems pretty damn op i cant do anything close to that on my WD. Stop bitching this is what diablo and similar games are like if you don't like it you can ask for a full refund within 30 days of purchase so gtfo.
Just cleared the butcher on Inferno, took me a couple of tries as well since my DPS wasnt on par with what I should be doing, also noted that Poison Dart shined there :P
ah well some challenge, I hope this goes on till act 4 :P
So I just finished off the end of act 3 inferno with a friend, and I really got to say that I find the entire experience hilarious when playing with other people, as opposed to stupidly frustrating like it was solo. Then we spent about an hour throwing ourselves against the Iskatu event without ever getting him under 50%, still more amusing than irritating. I definitely recommend grouping! Probably small groups though, the health/damage scaling on inferno is ridiculous.
invulnerable minions in Inferno has to be the worst idea in video game balance i have seen ever. i play DH with my brother (Wizard) and every time we see a pack like that, we don't even bother to fight. die or run away and then avoid.
the second most annoying is Fast, as that fucks up anything and is really just generally annoying. and as a DH who is primarily dealing damage for us both, Reflect Damage is also some high level of bullshit. nothing like hitting yourself for 1000+ damage every time you attack.
all in all, Inferno is a crock of heavily unbalanced shit and it is all because of those 5 attribute Champ/Elite packs. and i haven't even beaten Act I yet (just beat the Spider Queen). don't know how much longer i will even bother playing.
Act I to act II inferno is like going from the start of normal to the end of nightmare instantly. You know the invisible nagas? They will 1 shot you every time as they hit for 42k. Get more vitality/resists? In act III which is where I am right now everything hits for a minimum of 60k. We have it easy though as Demon Hunters compared to melee classes. Eventually you'll find act 1 easy and be able to breeze through it on inferno after more practice. Get ~15-20k dps before sharpshooter and you'll be fine.
Also work your spec around a bit, because there are still good specs after the SS nerf that work to take down almost any type of mob/combination. For reflect damage mobs there are a few ways of dealing with them. Stack scatter rune spike traps and SS to avoid the damage, repeat. Use NT and kite with calatropes at max range, using a potion to heal off some damage or with battlescars if you have above 20k hp (dropped it for back up plan on act III) and scavange for health globes and pools.
I wrote a beautiful "help me decide on my next class post" on the BNet forums but of course nobody responded. Reposting here because I am like the worst decision-maker ever when it comes to these things. I know there are some pretty high-leveled people here to help out.
Normally I dislike these kind of threads as much as the next guy, but I've come to the conclusion that I simply do not have as much knowledge on this game as probably 99% of people on these forums. I looked at the rules and I didn't see anything that said these threads aren't allowed (apologies if I missed something). I chose to post this here instead of one of the class-specific forums because I thought I'd get more unbiased opinions.
Anyway, this is my situation.
This is my first Diablo game, and I just beat the game a few days ago on Normal with a Barbarian. While I did enjoy it, I found a lot of the endgame to be, well, repetitive. The whole leap in and bash face lost a bit of its touch and I found myself wanting to be less of a unidimensional character. Now I understand that "Normal is ezmode" but from what I understand, Barbs become, well... somewhat less compelling at the higher difficulties.
This is when I made my decision to, after completing Normal, make a ranged class for my next character. I honestly liked the concept of all three, but later nixed Demon Hunter because the friend I am playing with has a DH as his main and I don't want to overlap with him quite that hard. I made both a Wizard and a WD and fooled around with them a bit for a few levels before realizing that I wasn't going to gain much knowledge on the class from this, since early game is pretty straightforward and similar amongst ranged classes. Therefore, I come to you.
I am not a super hardcore gamer, so I will not be gunning to Inferno in a week. What I do want, though, is a class with the ability to do well enough through any difficulty should I put in the effort. I want to be helpful in a group but I don't want to have to rely on said group to be able to progress. The other thing is that I would like a class that will be at least somewhat successful when PvP comes out. As I said, I'm not a hardcore gamer so I would rather plan a bit ahead than race to level up another class.
Finally, in terms of gameplay I tend to prefer AoE spells with high damage output. Even though I know kiting is a large part of any ranged class, I like to have some sort of control over mobs, in addition to an "OH &@*#" button or two, just in case. I want a class with a fair amount of viable builds for each (Yeah I know Inferno makes cookie-cutter builds, but read what I said about Inferno). I don't need every ability to be wonderful, but I want to be able to switch things out every so often. I want to be excited to level up and unlock more abilities, not just be clicking through all the "new" spam in the skill menu, having locked in my build many levels ago.
This is what I've compiled on each class in terms of what I've outlined above.
Witch Doctor:
Spirit Walk (OH &@*#)
Grasp of the Dead (CC)
Horrify (CC)
Firebats (AoE)
Wall of Zombies (CC)
Leaning a bit towards Wizard. I also obviously prefer AP to Mana.
Anyway, that's my story. I've put some effort into this so I would appreciate some from you. Also, for the love of all the is holy, please don't derail this into another thread to complain about class nerfings. I obviously don't want a class that will get nerfed to hell, but I have some faith that Blizzard will eventually strike a balance.
when it comes to WD, I came to this setup as I prefer it for inferno nowadays
Poison Dart (Splinter Rune)
Haunt (Lifegain Rune as Mana gain is rather meh and for me rather negligable)
Gargantuan (Big Stinker Rune)
Acid Cloud (Blob rune, not sure what its called, but great for AoE the spell in itself)
Soul harvest (Life gain Rune, because it heals a good amount when crowded)
Spirit Walk (Pretty much neccesary, with Mana Gain rune and oh shit)
Skills:
Jungle Fortitude (Absolute must as 20% damage reduction is quite something)
Spirit Vessel (a last Oh shit that saves you once every 90 seconds from death)
Spiritual Attunement or Bad Medicine (Extra mana or Damage reduction, I like them both enough to warrant a spot)
Random tip for people who haven't messed with items much yet, but this is an important reminder: certain attribute bonuses are only available to certain armor slots. Shit like Intelligence is on all of them, but there's some important utility that only shows up on other slots. You can only get improved attack speed on Amulet, Ring, and Gloves. You can only get improved movement speed(you want 12%) on Boots. You probably want to only use items that have these properties in those slots(especially movespeed) once you reach the midlevels or so because they are universally powerful and difficult to acquire.
I wrote a beautiful "help me decide on my next class post" on the BNet forums but of course nobody responded. Reposting here because I am like the worst decision-maker ever when it comes to these things. I know there are some pretty high-leveled people here to help out.
Normally I dislike these kind of threads as much as the next guy, but I've come to the conclusion that I simply do not have as much knowledge on this game as probably 99% of people on these forums. I looked at the rules and I didn't see anything that said these threads aren't allowed (apologies if I missed something). I chose to post this here instead of one of the class-specific forums because I thought I'd get more unbiased opinions.
Anyway, this is my situation.
This is my first Diablo game, and I just beat the game a few days ago on Normal with a Barbarian. While I did enjoy it, I found a lot of the endgame to be, well, repetitive. The whole leap in and bash face lost a bit of its touch and I found myself wanting to be less of a unidimensional character. Now I understand that "Normal is ezmode" but from what I understand, Barbs become, well... somewhat less compelling at the higher difficulties.
This is when I made my decision to, after completing Normal, make a ranged class for my next character. I honestly liked the concept of all three, but later nixed Demon Hunter because the friend I am playing with has a DH as his main and I don't want to overlap with him quite that hard. I made both a Wizard and a WD and fooled around with them a bit for a few levels before realizing that I wasn't going to gain much knowledge on the class from this, since early game is pretty straightforward and similar amongst ranged classes. Therefore, I come to you.
I am not a super hardcore gamer, so I will not be gunning to Inferno in a week. What I do want, though, is a class with the ability to do well enough through any difficulty should I put in the effort. I want to be helpful in a group but I don't want to have to rely on said group to be able to progress. The other thing is that I would like a class that will be at least somewhat successful when PvP comes out. As I said, I'm not a hardcore gamer so I would rather plan a bit ahead than race to level up another class.
Finally, in terms of gameplay I tend to prefer AoE spells with high damage output. Even though I know kiting is a large part of any ranged class, I like to have some sort of control over mobs, in addition to an "OH &@*#" button or two, just in case. I want a class with a fair amount of viable builds for each (Yeah I know Inferno makes cookie-cutter builds, but read what I said about Inferno). I don't need every ability to be wonderful, but I want to be able to switch things out every so often. I want to be excited to level up and unlock more abilities, not just be clicking through all the "new" spam in the skill menu, having locked in my build many levels ago.
This is what I've compiled on each class in terms of what I've outlined above.
Witch Doctor:
Spirit Walk (OH &@*#)
Grasp of the Dead (CC)
Horrify (CC)
Firebats (AoE)
Wall of Zombies (CC)
Leaning a bit towards Wizard. I also obviously prefer AP to Mana.
Anyway, that's my story. I've put some effort into this so I would appreciate some from you. Also, for the love of all the is holy, please don't derail this into another thread to complain about class nerfings. I obviously don't want a class that will get nerfed to hell, but I have some faith that Blizzard will eventually strike a balance.
I think you can kinda go either way as far as control/damage with both WD and Wizard, though WD is probably better control and Wizard better AoE damage right now. We kinda exemplify this when Cath(WD) and I(Wizard) play duo -- he has like 3 CC abilities and a pretty significant chunk of our damage comes from me on most pulls(especially some ruthless mob ability combos where my pet probably does more than either of us).
I don't know WD as well, and picked Wizard over it mostly based on class themes -- I tend to prefer to Sorcerer/Wizard/Mage archetype when I don't have a compelling game mechanic reason to pick something else (I started as a Mage in WoW, Sorcerer in SWTOR, that sort of thing), so it's tough for me to compare/contrast too much so I'll just talk a bit about what I think about Wizard and what it's like to play one on all four difficulties and hopefully you can get the WD info from Cath or Eiganjo or something.
I had the most fun with Wizard on the first couple of difficulties because there's a lot of fun, flashy spells and mobs aren't strong enough to punish you for using them yet. Archon form is absolutely ridiculous for Act1 Normal if you get it toward the beginning all the way until after Leoric on Hell, but starts being really punished hard after that(Archon teleport sucks even if you waste your rune on it, having to rely on exclusively a channeled nuke is dangerous, not being able to use Diamond Skin or Frost Nova is dangerous). Some other nukes that are suboptimal on higher difficulties are really effective pre-Inferno and a lot of fun with their flash, too, most notably Meteor and several of its silly rune options. You can do a lot more standing and blowing shit up pre-Inferno which seems like more how the class was intended to be played with the help of tanks and slows, rather than, say, Demon Hunter, which has better tools to kite directly. The Blizzard/FN slow kiting shit is like playing WoW Frost Mage missing half the tools so I tend to get pretty frustrated if I try to play that sort of shit(where the FUCK is my Water Elemental and Frostbite) and mostly stick with Teleport/Hydra stuff.
On Inferno you're pretty pidgeonholed into a handful of abilities, which I don't expect to change much even as people's gear improves because the mechanics won't allow it. Here's what's still usable on Inferno:
Garchomp Tier (Use both. Always).
Energy Armor (Force Armor)
Diamond Skin (Crystal Shell)
The two are completely non-negotiable. The only reasons Wizard can survive at all. Massive shield and massive damage reduction mechanic.
The best utility spells and the safest nukes. Considered putting Venom Hydra in the first tier but technically it isnt required in all builds so I didn't(the original 55Wizards didn't use it, for instance), but it's a ridiculous amount of damage, works with a healing exploit if you're that kind of guy, and does damage while you run away to allow for damage during safe kiting. Frost Nova is obvious utility but short range makes it really risky. Shock Pulse is the best Primary by a mile and having a safe 0 AP nuke is awesome. Magic Weapon is 15% damage for free and almost all wizards try to work it in their build, though you sacrifice utility from another spell to do it. Teleport is awesome and Fracture is amazing, basically giving you Mirror Image for free which lets you sometimes get limited offtanking and bodies to block AoEs for you(it's also always reset when you're hit thanks to a passive). You probably want at least one of Frost Nova and Teleport and most people try to work in Magic Weapon for the free damage. Shock Pulse and Venom Hydra can be swapped out for other nukes but represent the safest options.
Altaria Tier (Pick 0-2)
Arcane Orb (Obliteration, Tap the Source, Arcane Nova)
Ray of Frost (Cold Blood)
Familiar (Sparkleflint)
Blizzard (Everything but Grasping Chill)
Disintegrate (Intensity, Chaos Nexus)
Magic Missle (Seeker)
All the nukes that are viable but tend not to be super central to builds and Sparkleflint. Blizzard is for frost kiting builds. Arcane Orb is probably the single Secondary skill but requires you to be in a group to get full benefit for the most part since it's tough to throw a ton of them while kiting solo, is also one of the only skills in the game with three competitive runes. It was originally a staple in every serious build along with Shock Pulse(Piercing Orb) but more and more laser builds coming out lately and it's tough to use it, Shock Pulse, and Venom Hydra at once so I put it in this tier. I'm sketchy on the logic of using lasers as your primary damage source since you root yourself but Ray of Frost (Cold Blood) + Cold Blooded Passive gives you some incredibly redundant strong single targetish damage and I've seen builds with Disintegrate too but haven't actually tried them. Magic Missle is the safest damage ability other than Hydra available but has pretty medicore DPS. Familiar is a weaker verison of Force Weapon and should always be used at lower difficulties but typically there isn't room for two dead skillsloots on Inferno due to the amount of utility/damage needed. Fill in remaining slots in build with appropriate nukes from this section.
With 5 classes I expect everyone to be pretty good in pvp but Wizard should be either super hit or miss: lots of gimmicky abilities that will be really fun and have room to outplay people but could be really good or really bad depending on how the PvP is implemented. Very few games leave the traditional Mage archetype weak for long due to its popularity, however...
Act I to act II inferno is like going from the start of normal to the end of nightmare instantly. You know the invisible nagas? They will 1 shot you every time as they hit for 42k. Get more vitality/resists? In act III which is where I am right now everything hits for a minimum of 60k. We have it easy though as Demon Hunters compared to melee classes. Eventually you'll find act 1 easy and be able to breeze through it on inferno after more practice. Get ~15-20k dps before sharpshooter and you'll be fine.
Also work your spec around a bit, because there are still good specs after the SS nerf that work to take down almost any type of mob/combination. For reflect damage mobs there are a few ways of dealing with them. Stack scatter rune spike traps and SS to avoid the damage, repeat. Use NT and kite with calatropes at max range, using a potion to heal off some damage or with battlescars if you have above 20k hp (dropped it for back up plan on act III) and scavange for health globes and pools.
i wreck Act I but haven't even attempted Act II. i knew at some point, i'd have to drop my vit and resists for all out damage, though. currently, i run this:
pretty beastly due to how crits work with DHs (attached to projectile, not individually calculated). hitting for 50-60k with an xbow is nice...but i hear how tough Act II is and then how everything 1 shots from there on, so i'm thinking my skills need to be reworked. specifically, was thinking of replacing Bat Companion (is there to generate Hatred but i always find myself with a ton of Hatred) with Vault (Acrobatics) and Steady Aim (kiting a lot means not engaging outside of 10m a lot) with Tactical Advantage.
i don't see the use in traps, as if i have time to lay down traps, i have time to NT spam.
I wrote a beautiful "help me decide on my next class post" on the BNet forums but of course nobody responded. Reposting here because I am like the worst decision-maker ever when it comes to these things. I know there are some pretty high-leveled people here to help out.
Normally I dislike these kind of threads as much as the next guy, but I've come to the conclusion that I simply do not have as much knowledge on this game as probably 99% of people on these forums. I looked at the rules and I didn't see anything that said these threads aren't allowed (apologies if I missed something). I chose to post this here instead of one of the class-specific forums because I thought I'd get more unbiased opinions.
Anyway, this is my situation.
This is my first Diablo game, and I just beat the game a few days ago on Normal with a Barbarian. While I did enjoy it, I found a lot of the endgame to be, well, repetitive. The whole leap in and bash face lost a bit of its touch and I found myself wanting to be less of a unidimensional character. Now I understand that "Normal is ezmode" but from what I understand, Barbs become, well... somewhat less compelling at the higher difficulties.
This is when I made my decision to, after completing Normal, make a ranged class for my next character. I honestly liked the concept of all three, but later nixed Demon Hunter because the friend I am playing with has a DH as his main and I don't want to overlap with him quite that hard. I made both a Wizard and a WD and fooled around with them a bit for a few levels before realizing that I wasn't going to gain much knowledge on the class from this, since early game is pretty straightforward and similar amongst ranged classes. Therefore, I come to you.
I am not a super hardcore gamer, so I will not be gunning to Inferno in a week. What I do want, though, is a class with the ability to do well enough through any difficulty should I put in the effort. I want to be helpful in a group but I don't want to have to rely on said group to be able to progress. The other thing is that I would like a class that will be at least somewhat successful when PvP comes out. As I said, I'm not a hardcore gamer so I would rather plan a bit ahead than race to level up another class.
Finally, in terms of gameplay I tend to prefer AoE spells with high damage output. Even though I know kiting is a large part of any ranged class, I like to have some sort of control over mobs, in addition to an "OH &@*#" button or two, just in case. I want a class with a fair amount of viable builds for each (Yeah I know Inferno makes cookie-cutter builds, but read what I said about Inferno). I don't need every ability to be wonderful, but I want to be able to switch things out every so often. I want to be excited to level up and unlock more abilities, not just be clicking through all the "new" spam in the skill menu, having locked in my build many levels ago.
This is what I've compiled on each class in terms of what I've outlined above.
Witch Doctor:
Spirit Walk (OH &@*#)
Grasp of the Dead (CC)
Horrify (CC)
Firebats (AoE)
Wall of Zombies (CC)
Leaning a bit towards Wizard. I also obviously prefer AP to Mana.
Anyway, that's my story. I've put some effort into this so I would appreciate some from you. Also, for the love of all the is holy, please don't derail this into another thread to complain about class nerfings. I obviously don't want a class that will get nerfed to hell, but I have some faith that Blizzard will eventually strike a balance.
On the WD front there are 3 ish main builds for inferno that all play diffrently enough. You have the standard Splinters build the Body bag bear build or B4 for short or the dire bats build.
This is my main build i run right now the only gear requirements is 1h/oh and IAS on everything possible. You use your huge amount of cc to buy time to spam darts and usually you do a lot of stutter step kiting with firing off volleys as you out pace the slowed enemy. The skills runes and passives you use can pretty much all be customized to your liking as long as it helps you stay alive and kite. This is by far the most malleable build for Wd's.
B4:http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#fUjkQP!UVW!cZbZbb
This build is very easy to play but goes against how i enjoy playing these games so i avoid it. Considering ppl are killing butcher in sub 10 seconds with similar builds many people are expecting nerfs. the only gear requirement is ignore all surviablity and get damage so you can kill champion packs in your invul time from spirit walk/spirit vessel.
Dire bats:http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#cUZkXR!UVX!aZaZbZ Not too familiar with this build but it involves you keeping your kiting tools on cd to do damage witch can work but it is easy to screw up. Use a big 2h so you don't burn through all your mana with this kind of spec and kite.
As a side note do not expect pets to do anything until blizzard addresses how easily they die in inferno. This poorly worded post brought to you by diablo 3 server down time!
a lot of people are recommending inferno that rather than stacking vit, you should have a reasonable amount then stack damage reducing stats. these are all damage-reducing stats: 1 all resist = 10 armor = 10 strength = 10 intelligence
a lot of people are recommending inferno that rather than stacking vit, you should have a reasonable amount then stack damage reducing stats. these are all damage-reducing stats: 1 all resist = 10 armor = 10 strength = 10 intelligence
the problem with that is it all goes at the window once you hit Act III, where EVERYTHING pretty much 1 shots you. all that money you spent gearing up for Act II? all that gear you bought? useless, as now you need as much damage as possible.
the problem with that is it all goes at the window once you hit Act III, where EVERYTHING pretty much 1 shots you. all that money you spent gearing up for Act II? all that gear you bought? useless, as now you need as much damage as possible.
I will never agree with the glass cannon or bust builds the reason you can't get good surviablity gear with high damage is because everyone is paying through the nose for it right now BECAUSE it is so good. Even increasing things from one shot too two shots gives a lot of room for getting away.
In Act II Inferno now as a Monk and yeah--nothing that drops in Act I even remotely prepares you for the ridiculousness found here. I'm all for "tiered" progression, but seriously... farming Act I is good for nothing but the gold it seems. I guess I don't really need to echo all the ranting that goes on in the general forums, but from Act II onward it just becomes a game of meticulously combing the AH for gear that will allow you to squeeze by. The pieces of gear with the stats that Monks seem to need to pass muster all go for nothing short of millions of gold on the AH. Honestly as melee it really seems like you either group up or spend millions on gear to get through Inferno.
Of course this is my SOLO melee perspective on things. I can get by in Act II (and even parts of Act III) with my DH friend who doesn't seem to have any problem at all (with certain elite combinations as exceptions), and can basically just stack damage without investing at all in VIT or other means of survivability. So much for balance (though admittedly no developer of these types of games has ever really bridged the gaping rift between ranged and melee).
