DPP Metagross (Full Revamp)

[Scofield]

Since Azelf is currently the most popular lead, Iron Plate/Metal Coat might be a consideration on LeadGross to bluff thinking it's CBGross?

Without it Meteor Mash fails to leave it at 1 HP, setting off an alarm to your opponent who might switch out and cause trouble later on.

This is of course assuming Gross doesn't have EQ and therefore doesn't need Occa Berry to beat Heatran and Infernape.

Interesting idea, but that is only for one pokemon (even one of the most popular leads). I'd feel like it is a waste of an item just to bluff once or twice a match, possibly none at all.

 

[E.A.]

Also, CBgross isn't used as a lead too often (or at all,) so the opponent would be less surprised than if it showed up in the late game.

 

[MetaNite]

Bluffing Choice Band Metagross isn't like bluffing Choiced Infernape or Salamence or Starmie. If your opponent thinks Metagross is locked into Meteor Mash, T-Punch, or EQ, and it isn't, Rotom is still a decent counter.

If the foe thinks your Infernape is locked into Flamethrower, then Blissey is a counter but if it's not... dead Blissey. Honestly I don't think it's even worth a mention. Occa Berry or Lum Berry are still the best items in my opinion for that set.

 

[cim]

Bluffing Choice Metagross is way easier than Choice Infernape because it actually is Choiced more than once in a blue moon but whatever.

EVs on the first set should not have Max HP over max Attack. The reason the old set was like that was to survive an Adamant Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake, but not only is that horribly rare now (and SR means you lose), you don't have the Defense EVs to do it now, so go 'head and max Attack again. Do it.

Explosion needs to be the first move option on slot 4 of Agiligross. That's half the reason anyone uses it; so that you can Explode when you want to.

Opinion / Counters are obviously needed.

Skarmory runs 16 Speed EVs to always outpace Choice Band Rhyperior, so run 20 EVs in Speed for that. It's not just the 16>8>4>0 game.

 

[MetaNite]

Honestly, why do you need to outrun Skarmory? Wouldn't it be better to use Earthquake as it Roosts instead of trying to T-punch? Just wondering.

You put Explosion on the Mixed Attacker, not Earthquake.

Also, HP Fire requires a 30 IV stat in Spe, so I think you need 136 EVs to beat Magnezone.

 

[cim]

Honestly, why do you need to outrun Skarmory? Wouldn't it be better to use Earthquake as it Roosts instead of trying to T-punch? Just wondering.

You can't Earthquake as it Roosts if you're locked into a CB set. Non-CB Earthquake doesn't OHKO.

 

[RaikouLover]

Originally Posted by Chris Is Me
EVs on the first set should not have Max HP over max Attack. The reason the old set was like that was to survive an Adamant Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake, but not only is that horribly rare now (and SR means you lose), you don't have the Defense EVs to do it now, so go 'head and max Attack again. Do it.

Well, every Metagross set not investing heavily in speed should be:

252 HP / 232 Atk / 12 Def / 8 Spe

Its not just about Dugtrio, its just with that spread, the only thing that can OHKO Metagross unboosted is STABed special Fire attacks.

 

[cim]

Well, every Metagross set not investing heavily in speed should be:

252 HP / 232 Atk / 12 Def / 8 Spe

Its not just about Dugtrio, its just with that spread, the only thing that can OHKO Metagross unboosted is STABed special Fire attacks.

Why does that matter when there's (1) Stealth Rock and (2) Metagross is never at full health? I'd rather do as much damage as possible rather than reach a seemingly arbitrary "can't be OHKOed except you can" point.

 

[E.A.]

The Lum Berry has been turning out as a decent item on the AgilityGross set. Random Thunder Waves and WoWs have been stopping my sweeps lately, and the Lum Berry has proven its worth.

 

[Flashstorm1]

I have successfully updated the Metagross analysis to include all of the changes that I proposed in my introduction, barring an analysis on the Rest / Sleep Talk set. Adding upon that, I'd like some commentary on such a set: is it still viable with the heavily offensive metagame that exists today? I will test this myself, possibly on the suspect ladder, but if anyne has any experience within the current subject, I'd appreciate some comments.

Here is the current analysis on-site:

[SET]
name: Rest / Sleep Talk
move 1: Meteor Mash
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk
item: Leftovers / Life Orb / Shed Shell
ability: Clear Body
nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Atk / 40 Def / 40 SpD

<p>This takes advantage of Metagross's excellent defensive abilities moreso than the previous sets. Meteor Mash and Earthquake provide the best type coverage available to Metagross with just two attacks.</p>

<p>Leftovers is the obvious choice when your primary purpose is tanking, but Life Orb is a great alternative as Rest makes up for losing 10% of Metagross's HP with each attack. Shed Shell is also viable so Metagross won't be trapped by Dugtrio or Magnezone.</p>

Also, proofreading, at the time of the posting of this message, has not been completed. In any case, if you spot any errors, please let me know what they are so I can fix them.

Thanks for everyone's help on helping me complete this analysis! I will do my best to get it 100% complete as soon as possible.

 

[TeaBag]

You are missing 4 EVs on the Choice Band and lead sets.

 

[paramylodon]

Iron head has a 30%, and not a 40%, flinch rate.
Also, while you mention it for scarf, wouldn't it be at least as viable on the agility set?

 

[cim]

Iron Head is viable on any Metagross as it's 100% accurate IMO, though "that's just me".

 

[SithLord]

Just a couple more errors I saw:

Set: Trapper

Metagross can switch into Gengar and KO with Pursuit as it switches out, but be warned that minimum HP and Defense Starmie will never be OHKOed even as it switches out;

EVs section

after investing in Speed, you can outspeed Skarmory and KO it with ThunderPunch before it can recover

Heracross is not nearly as centralizing to the metagame as it used to be before the introduction of Platinum.

I'm not so sure if Platinum should be mentioned in the analysis. The analysis is assumed to be a rather universal entry, and mentioning Platinum puts a date in there...but I'm not too sure on this point.

Opinion section

Clear Body ability prevents Pokémon like Gyarados and Salamence from slashing its Attack power with Intimidate

Counters section

Suicune, Vaporeon, and Slowbro are the most notable bulky waters that can switch into Swampert

should be Metagross

In Uber battles, Groudon, Kyogre, (comma added) and Palkia are fine counters. Ho-oh works in much the same way as Moltres and Charizard. Lugia can also set up a Reflect while Metagross is out and Recover off any damage.

The rest of the analysis looks great. Nice writeup.

 

[Mia [old]]

Well, every Metagross set not investing heavily in speed should be:

252 HP / 232 Atk / 12 Def / 8 Spe

I have used this spread in tandem with Lum Berry rather than a Choice Band and it has served me well since DP's release.

edit: I have also had fun with Iron Head, Earthquake, Rock Polish, and Substitute with Leftovers, but it was more of a fun set than anything.

 

[CardsOfTheHeart]

Shadow Ball was recently added to the Mixed Attacker set on the current analysis for being able to 2HKO 252 HP variants of the Rotom appliances (47% min. with Expert Belt, 51% with Life Orb--both guaranteed 2HKOs with Stealth Rock and Leftovers); perhaps that should be mentioned here, as well.

 

[darkie]

how's this going?

 

[Flashstorm1]

how's this going?

The analysis as a whole is rather finished by now. I'm just working on a RestSTalk set, but with the number of offense teams running around, I'm finding little use for such a set anymore, so I'm considering just not adding in a RestSTalk set for the Platinum revamp. I'd appreciate some commentary on this specifically though, since this is a community project, after all.

I'll make sure to post when I'm done.

 

[darkie]

Post what set you're currently using and you might find a few more replies.

 

[cim]

Is there a reason not to run max attack on the CBer other than the "arbitrary not OHKOed by a bunch of stuff" point that's really not much different from max attack's defense spread? I haven't read a convincing reason anywhere :/

 

[Flashstorm1]

Post what set you're currently using and you might find a few more replies.

I've decided that I am just going to completely drop Rest + Sleep Talk from the current analysis, as I can find no convincing reason to further keep it. From personal experience, I can say that the new metagame is not friendly towards Metagross in terms of walling; this is because, ironically, Metagross gains few handy resistances to build upon with its Steel / Psychic typing. I'd also like to note that while the combination of Steel + Ground seems to be good on paper, it just doesn't cut it when Metagross is trying to deal with the Pokémon it could counter by running Rest + Sleep Talk. For example, Starmie can easily Recover off any damage taken from Earthquake while Metagross will be doing nothing but wasting precious PP. Otherwise, noting its resistances to Normal, Rock, and Grass, Metagross can only truly wall the uncommon Normal and Grass types; in either case, Celebi can still set up on you assuming it has Recover / Leech Seed, and Blissey and Snorlax have no real reason to stay in on you considering you have a good chance of getting an Attack boost.

Is there a reason not to run max attack on the CBer other than the "arbitrary not OHKOed by a bunch of stuff" point that's really not much different from max attack's defense spread? I haven't read a convincing reason anywhere :/

I think you are forgetting that Metagross already has a colossal 398 Attack with the given EVs, which still deals a tremendous amount of damage. The main point is, reducing Attack by a total of five stat points is nothing compared to the ability to survive a Choice Banded Earthquake from Dugtrio along with being able to outspeed Skarmory, Magnezone, and enemy Metagross, although the latter reason does not truly support my case as you'll be stuck on a move anyways.