Texas Cloverleaf
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I have a vague memory of actually doing that irl with the Victini gift way back in the day and as you might imagine it was rather strong
I've used lv5 event mew, Jirachi, and the egg Manaphy in platinum runs and they're all excellent, between specs being available and super strong early game performances. Manaphy also is your bulky water at the same time as a super strong special sweeperYeah I would expect most (pseudo-)Legendary or Mythical event Pokemon to rank highly for in-game purposes. I'm sure there's some obscure counterexample somewhere but for the most part the high stat totals, strong moves, or actually-decent gimmicks will overwhelm the computer. I recall the free Beldum with ORAS being ridiculously broken during my playthrough with it.
I agree they shouldn't be in the main thread (mostly because of availability, there's no set point they're available) but I am definitely interested in discussion around tiering the dream radar mons, the non-legendary ones are very reasonable playthrough mons and some are certainly better than others. I've used several in playthroughs, i think they're especially notable because trading is locked behind the first badge in BW2, so they can serve as "alternative starter Pokémon" and are your only options for this, as compared to other games where you can trade eggs in and begin the game with whatever you like. Beldum, Rotom, and Spiritomb are particularly interestingIn an effort to keep existing collected information organized, I would personally want to see these expanded Tier Lists separate from their original versions. I'd imagine this probably goes without saying, but we don't need stuff like, say, Pokémon Dream Radar mons (especially the Legendaries) messing with the existing Black 2 & White 2 in-game tier list, for example. I'd just rather be safe than sorry, you know?
Even if the Day Care is very early in Emerald, trying to breed useful egg moves is still a huge time investment. A Lotad egg takes around 3750 steps to hatch and with just a 20% chance for an egg to appear every 256 steps, there is a good chance it will take over 4000 steps to get a level 5 Lotad with Leech Seed.[...]
As much as I love GSC, I despise how they located many of the new Johto Pokemon. Houndour is the poster boy of this. Because of its placement in these games this poor boy was relegated to always be late into the game and thus not often be worth considering to pick it up. It would be such a cool mon to use if it would just be available at a reasonable time.[...]
Honestly, at this point, it'd be better to get a Lotad with an actual Water STAB instead of Leech Seed.Even if the Day Care is very early in Emerald, trying to breed useful egg moves is still a huge time investment. A Lotad egg takes around 3750 steps to hatch and with just a 20% chance for an egg to appear every 256 steps, there is a good chance it will take over 4000 steps to get a level 5 Lotad with Leech Seed.
And I doubt that Leech Seed is going to move the needle much for Lombre. It is still useless in gyms 2, 3 and 4 in the early game. You could try to slowly stall out Slaking with Fake Out and Leech Seed but that is still much worse than just using the Toxic or Attract TMs since Norman has two Hyper Potions. And Lombre can't even use Dig to dodge Slaking's attacks every two turns. Which means you will have to switch other team members into Slaking's strong attacks every few turns. And with its huge attack stat, that is easier said than done. If you can manage that, then you probably don't need to go through the effort of breeding for Leech Seed.
And of course the big question is why you would not just use the Shroomish you caught for breeding in the first place. Breloom can make use of the same Leech Seed strat, and even has Stun Spore and Headbutt to make it more reliable. Even its bulk is basically the same as Lombre's.
Lombre is basically dead weight before Surf and I don't think Leech Seed is going to change that. But I am a certified Lombre hater (even though I love the design of the Lotad line) in Emerald, so keep that in mind.
One interesting thing to consider with the Day Care is breeding an Illumise in Emerald or Ruby, though. Putting it into the Day Care with any compatible Pokémon gives a 50% chance for a Volbeat. An interesting option if you just can't get that 1% encounter in those games. Still not very good, though.
As much as I love GSC, I despise how they located many of the new Johto Pokemon. Houndour is the poster boy of this. Because of its placement in these games this poor boy was relegated to always be late into the game and thus not often be worth considering to pick it up. It would be such a cool mon to use if it would just be available at a reasonable time.
not convinced you're accounting for EVs + badge boosts enough in some of these situations. early game, sure, it'll struggle as a Porygon at lv 20. but to say return isn't a good move on porygon2 seems silly. max 102 return + stab + plain badge + zephyr badge is something like a 190 power move. add on to that you'd have 20 levels of EVs, the Pryce badge for special boosts + ice boost and I don't see how you're not out speeding and ohkoing Claire's dragonairs with ice beam. I'd be shocked if Kingdra was not a 2hko with return.snip
Return is a good move on Polygon just like it is on almost every Normal or physical Mon. However, Porygon learns Tri Attack by level-up, so it's better to use that and save Return TM for another Mon. If a Pokemon learns a good Normal STAB by level, it's always good to save Return for something else.not convinced you're accounting for EVs + badge boosts enough in some of these situations. early game, sure, it'll struggle as a Porygon at lv 20. but to say return isn't a good move on porygon2 seems silly. max 102 return + stab + plain badge + zephyr badge is something like a 190 power move. add on to that you'd have 20 levels of EVs, the Pryce badge for special boosts + ice boost and I don't see how you're not out speeding and ohkoing Claire's dragonairs with ice beam. I'd be shocked if Kingdra was not a 2hko with return.
there's also a big issue with regard to the AI here. Chuck is not guaranteed to click dynamicpunch. I agree Porygon should not be used in that fight but it's unfair to assume things like that as well as stuff like Steelix always going for screech + iron tail.
yeah but return is unlimited as I'm assuming most ppl are playing on a system where they can modify the time to make it FridayReturn is a good move on Polygon just like it is on almost every Normal or physical Mon. However, Porygon learns Tri Attack by level-up, so it's better to use that and save Return TM for another Mon. If a Pokemon learns a good Normal STAB by level, it's always good to save Return for something else.
Feels semi-cheating and tedious to do. Even gambling at the casino for an hour looks more fun, honestly.yeah but return is unlimited as I'm assuming most ppl are playing on a system where they can modify the time to make it Friday
While I agree with you that Return can be worth it for a mon that gets nothing between Tackle and Tri Attack at level 36 (seriously, why doesn't it learn Headbutt? As the Ukrainian guy from The Wire would say "Does it have a head? Can it move? Then it should get Headbutt") something to remember is that the elemental TMs are postgame move tutors in Crystal so your best bet is to use Thunder/Blizzard before that. Dunno if it'd impact the tiering much but it is annoying when IB would be so good against Clair.not convinced you're accounting for EVs + badge boosts enough in some of these situations. early game, sure, it'll struggle as a Porygon at lv 20. but to say return isn't a good move on porygon2 seems silly. max 102 return + stab + plain badge + zephyr badge is something like a 190 power move. add on to that you'd have 20 levels of EVs, the Pryce badge for special boosts + ice boost and I don't see how you're not out speeding and ohkoing Claire's dragonairs with ice beam. I'd be shocked if Kingdra was not a 2hko with return.
there's also a big issue with regard to the AI here. Chuck is not guaranteed to click dynamicpunch. I agree Porygon should not be used in that fight but it's unfair to assume things like that as well as stuff like Steelix always going for screech + iron tail.
I know the exact mission you're referring to; the Magnezone mission is absolute hell to play through on solo, and if the mission spawns Claydols instead of Bronzongs which you can dodge, it's downright impossible. FUCK this mission.But man, if this game mode isn'tnormally, one specific mission can rot for eternityarguably the most fun I've ever had with side content in any Pokémon game I've played.
It is actually possible to S Rank Magnezone, but you'd have to not only be extremely overleveled (I was able to reliably A Rank Arceus by the time S Rank Magnezone even seemed like a possibility), but the mission has to go flawlessly since you need to dodge every single Bronzong. Magnezone wasn't a walk in the park either, but flawless play with my Hippopotas assist let me burst it down in under 40 seconds iirc. Not impossible but very tedious and luck-reliant. Fuck those Claydols.Yep, that's the one. It's very obvious that the intended method is to get a second player so you can each take one of the split paths, but of course, if it's just you, you have to spend an agonizing amount of time going back and forth between the two. On average, that takes me about five minutes to do, and for context, your total mission time when accounting for all possible Time Extenders is around 11 minutes. Doing the math, that means you're left with only a single minute to complete the rest of the mission (the beginning segment plus the boss) outside of the split path segment if you want to get an S Rank in single player, which given the circumstances I'm starting to think is impossible without cheating.
The progression for the Past missions is a bit weird because again, your partner pokemon can't evolve. However, you can level up your partner pokemon's move to be stronger/bigger/have less cooldown/etc., such that even if you pick up the evolved version of your partner later, it might already be lagging behind your invested partner. Piplup is a great example of this because it's probably going to be your best, if not only Water assist throughout the entirety of the Fire Temple, and by the time you complete the Fire temple, Water assists are no longer going to be as important anymore, so "not being able to evolve" isn't really a big deal. It's not like pre-evolved partners are even a strict downgrade either, because they tend to have less cooldowns on their assists than their evolved forms in exchange for less power, so even a Hippopotas partner can be just as valuable as a Hippowdon partner for example.Much like the core series games, there's a lot that will go into what makes a good Partner Pokémon for a playthrough of this game mode viable in practice. Speaking as someone who's played through Guardian Signs three times and both of the other Ranger games and has yet to complete the full mode in single player in any of these playthroughs (I'm not kidding- it's that challenging), how useful a Partner Pokémon is in assisting with the absolutely brutal level grinding and replaying of previous Missions is especially important to look at, on top of where you're spending the resources you gain and how quickly you can grind/farm for said resources. This is in addition to looking at the type matchup chart and especially what Poké Assist attack each Partner Pokémon can have. The good news is, due to the nature of this game mode, you wouldn't have to play through every single Mission with just one Partner Pokémon. There should be enough information on each available Partner Pokémon in practice to adequately and accurately rank them based on their performance in the Missions they are best suited towards. Because let's face it, that Piplup that's effectively your forced Starter Pokémon is not getting all the way through every single Mission unless you're max level and are using tool assist. The poor little guy can't even evolve since this is a Pokémon Ranger game.
Yep, that's the one. It's very obvious that the intended method is to get a second player so you can each take one of the split paths, but of course, if it's just you, you have to spend an agonizing amount of time going back and forth between the two. On average, that takes me about five minutes to do, and for context, your total mission time when accounting for all possible Time Extenders is around 11 minutes. Doing the math, that means you're left with only a single minute to complete the rest of the mission (the beginning segment plus the boss) outside of the split path segment if you want to get an S Rank in single player, which given the circumstances I'm starting to think is impossible without cheating.I know the exact mission you're referring to; the Magnezone mission is absolute hell to play through on solo, and if the mission spawns Claydols instead of Bronzongs which you can dodge, it's downright impossible. FUCK this mission.
You pretty much summed this up better than I could have about why it's likely completely impractical to test for this game mode. I'd like to think I have a pretty good grasp on what all of the different Assists do and the quote-on-quote "meta" for each of these missions, but given that Guardian Signs isThe progression for the Past missions is a bit weird because again, your partner pokemon can't evolve. However, you can level up your partner pokemon's move to be stronger/bigger/have less cooldown/etc., such that even if you pick up the evolved version of your partner later, it might already be lagging behind your invested partner. Piplup is a great example of this because it's probably going to be your best, if not only Water assist throughout the entirety of the Fire Temple, and by the time you complete the Fire temple, Water assists are no longer going to be as important anymore, so "not being able to evolve" isn't really a big deal. It's not like pre-evolved partners are even a strict downgrade either, because they tend to have less cooldowns on their assists than their evolved forms in exchange for less power, so even a Hippopotas partner can be just as valuable as a Hippowdon partner for example.
There are two bigger issues with ranking Past partner Pokemon imo. The first is you don't have that much control over what litographs will drop in each mission to give you what you want, but at the same time the grindy nature of the past missions means that while you could get the rare litograph you desire eventually with enough grinding, you still need a partner to actually get you through the grind. This results in a conundrum where the early-game is almost as important as the late-game, if not even more so. Even then, assists that are only good for one late-game boss stage are still useful because investing AP into them can let you grind that stage easier and get your AP back. This makes it pretty difficult for almost any partner to be rendered truly obsolete because nearly all assists can be useful in some stage, which may be enough justification to consider them for grinding. Even Normal assists, which cannot hit the boss super effectively, might still have some potential in crushing those annoying Pokemon that you need to catch to reach the boss in the first place, since they tend to hit harder than other assists.
The bigger issue lies in the cataloguing of what each assist does, because currently, there is pretty much ZERO documentation on what each Past assist does. For example, I recall the likes of Donphan, Hariyama, and Primeape having pretty lousy assists due to their long startup/cooldown animation despite the coverage they offer, but would anyone have known this without me telling them or not use the Pokemon themselves? I haven't even gotten into the AP investment costs for each Pokemon, and I definitely can't remember for the life of me what any of them are because I haven't touched this game in years. While the concept of ranking the Past partner Pokemon definitely intrigues me, there simply isn't enough detailed information on them, and trying to compile them sounds like a herculean mammoth of a task, especially with the grinding involved.