Sports Formula 1

[WilhelmTheOkay]

www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/yvy06o/pok%C3%A9mon_x_f1
car go vroom
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Surprised this isn't already a thread.

So, to kick this off I'll throw out some questions if anyone wants to discuss F1 on the competitive pokemon singles forum:

1. At the time of writing, it is one week after the 2023 Spanish Grand Prix which was the most impressive race for Mercedes so far and the least impressive for Aston Martin aka just Alonso lol. In the coming weeks do you think Alonso will be able to keep up with the new W14 and maintain his 3rd place position throughout the season, will Aston Martin's new facilities allow them to keep pace with Mercedes' development?

2. So far in the season Hulkenberg has outqualifed Magnussen 5 out of 7 times, but has finished behind him in 4 of the 7 races so far, even in the Baku sprint too. Hulkenberg hasn't really had a race other than Australia where he hasn't been swallowed up by the rest of midfield while Magnussen has managed to show the ability to gain positions over a race in Bahrain, Jeddah, and Baku. If there is to be any onus to be placed on anyone, should it be on Hulkenberg's race pace or Magnussen's quali pace?

3. Alpine find themselves in a sort of no-man's land at the moment in 5th place with some distance above and below them. Is there hope for a second podium? Will McLaren be able to challenge them as the season progresses? And will one of Gasly or Ocon pull away from the other in terms of performance?

4. So far into the season, Sainz has once again been one of the most consistent qualifiers and drivers on the grid, though not quite the fastest. At the moment, he is ahead of Leclerc in points, will he be able to finish ahead of him this season like he did in 2021, will Leclerc find his previous form and start to more regularly challenge Alonso and Mercedes, or will Ferrari do the thing it's known for now and just make a mess of everything to point where it'll be hard to discern how fast their car and drivers actually are? Also, with Mercedes potentially having made a jump with the Spanish GP, will Ferrari be able to bring an upgrade package to really start racing for the podium positions this season?

5. Of these three teams, how would you rank the goodness of their cars: Alfa Romeo C43, AlphaTauri AT04, and Haas VF-23.

6. And finally, which team will be the first non-Red Bull team to win, which driver, and where is most likely?

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Or if you don't feel like reading or talking about any of that, what car do you think looks the best?

 

[Coronis]

View attachment 524469
www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/yvy06o/pok%C3%A9mon_x_f1
car go vroom
---
​

Surprised this isn't already a thread.

So, to kick this off I'll throw out some questions if anyone wants to discuss F1 on the competitive pokemon singles forum:

1. At the time of writing, it is one week after the 2023 Spanish Grand Prix which was the most impressive race for Mercedes so far and the least impressive for Aston Martin aka just Alonso lol. In the coming weeks do you think Alonso will be able to keep up with the new W14 and maintain his 3rd place position throughout the season, will Aston Martin's new facilities allow them to keep pace with Mercedes' development?

2. So far in the season Hulkenberg has outqualifed Magnussen 5 out of 7 times, but has finished behind him in 4 of the 7 races so far, even in the Baku sprint too. Hulkenberg hasn't really had a race other than Australia where he hasn't been swallowed up by the rest of midfield while Magnussen has managed to show the ability to gain positions over a race in Bahrain, Jeddah, and Baku. If there is to be any onus to be placed on anyone, should it be on Hulkenberg's race pace or Magnussen's quali pace?

3. Alpine find themselves in a sort of no-man's land at the moment in 5th place with some distance above and below them. Is there hope for a second podium? Will McLaren be able to challenge them as the season progresses? And will one of Gasly or Ocon pull away from the other in terms of performance?

4. So far into the season, Sainz has once again been one of the most consistent qualifiers and drivers on the grid, though not quite the fastest. At the moment, he is ahead of Leclerc in points, will he be able to finish ahead of him this season like he did in 2021, will Leclerc find his previous form and start to more regularly challenge Alonso and Mercedes, or will Ferrari do the thing it's known for now and just make a mess of everything to point where it'll be hard to discern how fast their car and drivers actually are? Also, with Mercedes potentially having made a jump with the Spanish GP, will Ferrari be able to bring an upgrade package to really start racing for the podium positions this season?

5. Of these three teams, how would you rank the goodness of their cars: Alfa Romeo C43, AlphaTauri AT04, and Haas VF-23.

6. And finally, which team will be the first non-Red Bull team to win, which driver, and where is most likely?

---
Or if you don't feel like reading or talking about any of that, what car do you think looks the best?

1. I think (hope at least) that he will. It has been amazing to see him back at the front in a good car and serves as a great reminder as to how skilled and intelligent a race driver he is.

2. Honestly, I have no clue. Usually when you have an older driver like Hulkenberg they tend to outperform a younger one like Magnussen in the race, due to better racecraft and experience. At this point it seems more like Nico is outperforming the car (relative to Magnussen at least) in qualifying, and the race results are more indicative of their overall pace. Either that or they’re just being very silly and running very different setups on each car each weekend.

3. I mean, there’s hope for anything right? But Monaco is a very unique situation, realistically the cards would all have to fall in their favour for another podium imo. Gasly is the better driver I believe, I kinda thought Ocon was just right place, right time at Monaco but hey, we’ll see. McLaren we still need to see how these supposed updates perform with a 100% Norris but I can see them fighting it out later in the season.

4. Nah I think LeClerc will be back with a vengeance (I hope at least). He’s just too talented not to beat Sainz without further gremlins I reckon. I hope they do, just cos screw Mercedes.

5. Tbh cbf ranking them rn. Doesn’t seem like a clear hierarchy rn.

6. Hopefully Alpine with Alonso. As for where, idk. Any of the three teams behind Red Bull could win, but they need both Red Bulls to have an issue, either in qualifying or the race. Probably makes a street circuit most likely - and whichever team has a slight advantage that weekend will jump in. Hope Verstappen has a couple of issues tbh, it really got my hopes up seeing Perez really take it to him early, would like to see an actual battle for the championship, even if it is just between teammates.

 

[McGrrr]

1. Alonso's entire weekend was compromised from floor damage that he suffered as a result of his mistake (and trip through the gravel) during Q1. With an undamaged car, he would have qualified 2nd to 4th at worst, and challenged for the podium. Alonso and the Mercs have very close race pace, and the reality this season is that drivers need a significant differential to overtake, so whoever has track advantage is likely to bring it home. Canada is a favourable venue for AM, as the car is dominant through slow/medium speed corners, so I expect a strong showing from Alonso, especially with upgrades. Unless something strange happens, I expect Alonso to finish 3rd in the championship as his advantage is too much for Lewis to catch. However, Merc will finish 2nd in the constructors' because they have the best driver pairing.

2. I think Hulk has generally outperformed Mag. Hulk has consistently qualified where that Haas has no right to be, which unfortunately means the only direction to go on Sunday is backwards. Severe tyre degradation and questionable strategy calls have not helped his cause.

3. Gasly is slightly faster than Ocon IMO, but both are competent midfield drivers and nothing more, much like Alpine as a constructor. It is difficult to know where McLaren stand from race to race; the only constant appears to be their awful top speed.

4. Both Ferraris have been underwhelming. The car seems to be a handful, and that is evidenced by mistakes from both drivers when pushing at the limit. I think Charles remains the faster driver, but his side of the garage got his setup completely wrong for Spain. Just Ferrari things.

5. Qualifying: Haas > Alfa > AT. Race pace: Alfa > Haas > AT. That Alpha Tauri is a dog, Yuki is overachieving. Meanwhile, I have no idea what is happening to Bottas.

6. First non-RB win... Head says Alonso, heart says Lewis. Basically, I think AM will remain the second fastest car until at least after summer break.

 

[Coronis]

Will be very surprised if Hulkenberg doesn’t get swallowed up this race too. Perfect red flag timing for him.

 

[WilhelmTheOkay]

Jeez, 3rd straight Q3 miss for Perez, 4th total out of 8 races. Really disappointing, I was really hoping he'd be able to keep it close and even if he couldn't bring the fight to Max, at least coast to 2nd place this season. On the bright side it looks like there could be a real battle for 2nd between Perez, Alonso, and Hamilton if the upgrades are for real.

 

[Coronis]

Jeez, 3rd straight Q3 miss for Perez, 4th total out of 8 races. Really disappointing, I was really hoping he'd be able to keep it close and even if he couldn't bring the fight to Max, at least coast to 2nd place this season. On the bright side it looks like there could be a real battle for 2nd between Perez, Alonso, and Hamilton if the upgrades are for real.

Very weird race for Perez in general, couldn’t keep up on Hards vs Ferrari on Medium, then couldn’t make a dent when they were reversed. Clearly the other teams have moved closer in general but yeah very subpar weekend from him.

Hulkenberg, Stroll and Gasly being screwed pitting before the SC was just sad. Pre-SC at least, Ocon looked very solid behind the Mercs, proving there is real pace in the Alpine. (Gasly honestly just got screwed all weekend)

Haas really struggled, good one lap pace maybe but yeah could not hold onto their tyres at all and definitely looked the worst car out there.

Albon did a fantastic job there, nursing those tyres for so long and using Williams patented straight line speed. Definitely my driver of the day.

 

[McGrrr]

IMO after 8 races:

https://tiermaker.com/create/formula-one-drivers-2023-season-15449271

 

[Cousiin]

1. At the time of writing, it is one week after the 2023 Spanish Grand Prix which was the most impressive race for Mercedes so far and the least impressive for Aston Martin aka just Alonso lol. In the coming weeks do you think Alonso will be able to keep up with the new W14 and maintain his 3rd place position throughout the season, will Aston Martin's new facilities allow them to keep pace with Mercedes' development?

2. So far in the season Hulkenberg has outqualifed Magnussen 5 out of 7 times, but has finished behind him in 4 of the 7 races so far, even in the Baku sprint too. Hulkenberg hasn't really had a race other than Australia where he hasn't been swallowed up by the rest of midfield while Magnussen has managed to show the ability to gain positions over a race in Bahrain, Jeddah, and Baku. If there is to be any onus to be placed on anyone, should it be on Hulkenberg's race pace or Magnussen's quali pace?

3. Alpine find themselves in a sort of no-man's land at the moment in 5th place with some distance above and below them. Is there hope for a second podium? Will McLaren be able to challenge them as the season progresses? And will one of Gasly or Ocon pull away from the other in terms of performance?

4. So far into the season, Sainz has once again been one of the most consistent qualifiers and drivers on the grid, though not quite the fastest. At the moment, he is ahead of Leclerc in points, will he be able to finish ahead of him this season like he did in 2021, will Leclerc find his previous form and start to more regularly challenge Alonso and Mercedes, or will Ferrari do the thing it's known for now and just make a mess of everything to point where it'll be hard to discern how fast their car and drivers actually are? Also, with Mercedes potentially having made a jump with the Spanish GP, will Ferrari be able to bring an upgrade package to really start racing for the podium positions this season?

5. Of these three teams, how would you rank the goodness of their cars: Alfa Romeo C43, AlphaTauri AT04, and Haas VF-23.

6. And finally, which team will be the first non-Red Bull team to win, which driver, and where is most likely?

1. Yes Aston Martin definitely has the facilities and the financial power to match Mercedes, that being said I think Mercedes has a huge human advantage rn whether among managment, engineers, strategists or drivers, they're the best team out there when it comes to maximize the result they can get out of a race

2. I think getting rid of Mick in favor of Hulkenberg was an amazing move made by Haas and I think he's completely dominating Magnussen rn, sadly the race results aren't too reliable of a comparaison cuz Haas has an awful car in race trim and often go for very questionable strategies (which can be justified: doing the opposite of the field and hoping it to work 1 out of 10000 times is probably their best shot at a good result rn). I heard Magnussen's seat is actually threatened for next season, which doesn't surprise me considering how dominated he is rn

3. Ocon has a huge performance advantage rn, but it *should* diminish over time as Gasly will be more used to the car and the team (if it doesn't diminish then it'll become worrying) and a second podium would require them as much luck as the first one did p much

4. issue with Ferrari rn is that everybody makes way too many mistakes, drivers as well as the team, I really don't understand how such a top team can embarass themselves so often ngl. However they are still performing well enough to get several more podiums this year yes, but that's not what they came for

5. Quali: Haas, Alfa, AT | Race: Alfa, AT, Haas

6. Most likely Mercedes with either of the 2 drivers I'd say (maybe slightly better odds for Hamilton? but not much), cuz as I said before they are v good at getting the best result possible out of any situation and both drivers make very few mistakes.

IMO after 8 races:

https://tiermaker.com/create/formula-one-drivers-2023-season-15449271

my take: (no particular order among the ranks) (I hesitated a lot between B and C for Piastri, truth is probably in between)

 

[Coronis]

imo. Think maybe I have Lando too high, looking back and Magnussen too low, could probably swap them butt cbf rn.

 

[Coronis]

Bloody hell Sergio. Love you but you’re killing me.

Seriously though the track limits thing felt like a joke. Apparently 47 laps were deleted during qualifying - ridiculous. Some sort of change needs to be made there.

Ferrari looking like the clear no. 2 this weekend, and McLaren’s big upgrade hasn’t failed to deliver (seriously though, only one car is a joke). Stroll outqualifying Fernando was a bit of a shocker. Will be nice to see Lando back fighting near the front with the Mercs and Astons though.


Hulkenberg once again dragging that Haas up and easily outqualifying Magnussen, but we know how hard that thing is on its tyres. Great work from Albon too, has impressed this year with his raw pace. Alpine had decent pace too, but looks like McLaren will be clearly outclassing them soon.. Alfa and Alpha just paceless backmarkers for this race?

Hopefully we see a shakeup in the sprint qualifying…. I’m imaging Perez getting pole and dominating the sprint whilst having a shit race. Would be a fun contrast. Or Lando possibly winning the sprint and stunning us all.

 

[Coronis]

And now that sprint qualifying is done… wow Mercedes rip. Perez finally shows up in quali (kinda) but yeah its only the sprint…

Norris looking extremely strong at this point, I’m thinking podium in at least one of the two races.

Nico Hulkenberg honestly give this man a medal. He is absolutely getting 110% out of this Haas in qualifying every time. Hopefully he is able to hang on over the shorter distance and bring home some points to show for it. Ferrari didn’t look great but still ahead of Aston.

Looks like Norris vs Ferraris for podiums this weekend.

 

[McGrrr]

Perez finally shows up in quali (kinda)

 

[Coronis]

View attachment 530807

Perfectly captured tbh.

Man that was a hell of a fun sprint race. Have a feeling if Hulkenberg pitted a lap earlier with Russell he might’ve grabbed the Astons. He was already dying to them pre stop so great job to almost come back to them by the end. Always love a wet/dry race and seeing gambles fail or pay off. Was some excellent racing pre and post drs. Max wins by 20s and still whinging whinging whinging. He’s a ridiculous talent clearly but god he reminds me of a baby half the time - had the same impression from Hamilton when he was dominating too. Really not a fan of either driver personally. #rant

Can only hope we have a similarish race tomorrow.

 

[Coronis]

First half of the race was very exciting - just like the sprint.

Verstappen was obviously amazing once more - as a team boss/strategist I’d probably disapprove of the pit for fastest lap, but it showed great trust in the team and his obvious competitiveness. Leclerc finally had a decent clean race, I was worried about him after the lackluster performance in the sprint but he did fine. Perez had a great drive through the field, staying out when the VSC came out obviously needed for the clean air to show off that pace.

Norris had an excellent showing all weekend, really has me keen to see McLaren back up there fighting with the others. Alonso - despite not having outright pace - drove a great race, definitely maximised the car. Sainz was sadly screwed over a bit with his pitstop (and penalty - more on that later), looked promising hounding Leclerc early on but the failure to pull away at all from Norris was very meh. Merc just didn’t have it this weekend, we all knew that. Hamilton whinging so hard on the radio really toed the line between annoying and funny for me.

Stroll went for the risky 3 stop but made it work, dominating down the stretch. Quality performances from both Gasly and Albon, unlucky Albon couldn’t secure a point from it. I really do love him defending with that pure straight line speed all the time though. Piastri will be keen as all to get that upgrade Norris had, and god Haas is just so sad. That Hulkenberg can drag out those awesome qualifyings but the thing can’t hold on to its tyres at all.

The track limits this weekend was just awful all round, hopefully its better next year there. I thought there would be some difference in the race but jesus, thats got to be the most penalties I’ve ever seen.

So to sum up - Verstappen still dominating. Nice to see Perez and Leclerc have good races. Balance between Ferrari/Mercedes/Aston (or at least Alonso) seesawing by the weekend. McLaren look poised to join them. Haas’ tyre dropoff is bloody awful. Track limits suck. Nobody really cares about Alfa or Alpha.

 

[Coronis]

Williams have introduced new front and rear wings, have looked strong in both practices. Lets see how we go, would love to see them a bit competitive.

 

[WilhelmTheOkay]

Unreal by Checo, the disaster continues.

In other news, holy crap McLaren looks like they have added a fifth podium-worthy car to the grid. Williams could be the seventh best car now too. AlphaTauri is firmly the worst car now I’d say.

 

[Coronis]

Ok Sergio….the joke isn’t funny anymore. You already gave Max the championship. C’mon back now.

 

[Coronis]

SC really helped out Hamilton there - otherwise McLaren was surely on for a double podium I thought. Surprising decision they went for the hards but they made it work. Great for Williams to be 8th and 11th. Disappointing day for Alpine. Aston look like they’ve definitely fallen behind the others with the upgrades at this point, though once again the SC helped Alonso to finish ahead of the Ferraris.

 

[WilhelmTheOkay]

Daniel Ricciardo will be replacing Nyck de Vries at Hungary it seems, how do you think he’ll perform vs Yuki? I wonder if the winner of the fight between Daniel and Yuki will be put in line for Checo’s seat.

 

[Coronis]

Daniel Ricciardo will be replacing Nyck de Vries at Hungary it seems, how do you think he’ll perform vs Yuki? I wonder if the winner of the fight between Daniel and Yuki will be put in line for Checo’s seat.

Well…as an Australian and a fan kinda happy for Dan, but at this point of the season they are basically hoping for others to have issues to even score points so that’ll be fun. Williams (Albon at least) and Alpine are clearly ahead of them atm, not to mention the top 5.

idk about the whole replacing Perez thing, I know Ricciardo will almost definitely outperform Tsunoda, but Ricciardo and Perez are roughly around the same skill level I’d say, and he’s not exactly a spring chicken.

Still there don’t seem to be any really talented young drivers in F1 right now (that aren’t contracted for next year) and I doubt they’d take a punt on a rookie from Super 2 if they’re to replace Perez. I can’t see any situation where Tsunoda would be signed tbh, no offence to him.

 

[Coronis]

Interesting stuff. Not the biggest fan of Hamilton but finally someone other than Verstappen on pole!

Alfa really liking this circuit - lets see if they can maintain that during the race.

Perez fucking finally makes Q3. Doesn’t exactly set the world on fire but its something.

Hulkenberg again honestly give this man a medal and a better car please.

Ricciardo outqualifies Tsunoda and doesn’t make Q3 - about what we all expected I think?

rip Sainz and Russell (if I told you 3 teams would have both drivers in Q3 would you have guessed Alfa lol?). Russell was actually quite impressive during the interview, I expected him to blame other drivers, but he’s 100% right, they didn’t need to be there, and god this backing up shit always pisses me off, and its so much worse in F1 than any other motorsport.

Top 3 were in their own class today for pole but check out the gaps in the rest of the 10. 4th-9th covered by 0.13s. 1-10 covered by 0.57s. Closest I remember F1 being in a while. MVP of qualifying is Zhou obviously. Happy for him.

 

[Coronis]

Well Zhou from MVP of qualifying to awful. And he happens to screw up 3 of my favourite drivers races. Though Ricciardo lived to fight on to 13th impressive how his mediums held on, great gamble from them.

Verstappen doesn’t bear speaking about atm. Dare I jinx him, he has a real shot at breaking Vettel’s record. Great job from McLaren and Norris particularly, and Sergio great to see back on the podium, he looked very positive and aggressive and hopefully this translates into better quali performances too. Piastri damn, was looking really good there at the start but guess Lando was just holding back. Merc really seemed to be great at the end of the stints, not so much earlier. If Hamilton kept ahead of the McLarens initially I think you could’ve seen 2/3/4 in any different order tbh. Good recovery drive from Russell too. LeClerc man that first pitstop absolutely killed him - time penalty obviously his own fault. Probably takes Piastri without it which is impressive. Anonymous drive for Aston Martin - probably the best they could hope for - hopefully this doesn’t continue and we can see them back further up the front. Bottas had a better car but Albon again in that Williams is almost impossible to pass.

Is this the first race all year where we’ve had only 5 teams score points? Feels like it. Fitting that these are the top 5 teams ofc. Hulkenberg continues to fall off somewhat in races with this shitty Haas, really deserves better. Midpack/backmarkers fight looks like it could be more interesting in the future with Alpine, Williams with their upgrades, Alfa (unless this was a one off), and Ricciardo joining Alpha.

I’m assuming sadly Haas will continue to be a better quali car than racer and maybe even end up behind Alpha in the team champ. Hopefully I’m wrong.

 

[McGrrr]

 

[Coronis]

Even when Perez puts together a decent weekend (sprint aside) the gap between him and Max is quite depressing. Solid runs from most of the rest of the top teams. Surprised Norris ended up doing so…ok. Soft tyre seemed to hold on almost as well as the medium and still be better in the end. Was really rooting for Gasly to get that 10th place - screwed by his pitstop sadly.

Not a good race for me or any Australian really.

We had basically every team vying for points except Haas and probably Alfa? at some point so that was pretty cool.

Didn’t see any post race press but lol I would love to see Verstappen react to Hamilton stealing the fastest lap. Especially since Max did pretty much pull out a pitstop gap on Perez.

 

[McGrrr]

Mid-Year Reports