A Dragonite's extreme speed did more to my Mega Swampert than a fucking Dragon Claw.next thing on that needs to be in the banlist fury cutter
this thing just completely wipes out anything not ready for it
i got 6-0'd by a crawdaunt
A Dragonite's extreme speed did more to my Mega Swampert than a fucking Dragon Claw.next thing on that needs to be in the banlist fury cutter
this thing just completely wipes out anything not ready for it
i got 6-0'd by a crawdaunt
As far as I'm aware, that is correct. Before I moved to using Secret Power/Tri Attack item on my Porygon-Z, I had it using Shock Wave as an item alongside Zap Cannon and Blizzard. The first couple of games with Shock Wave!Zap-Blizzard my luck was amazing as I hit with every attack, but on my third or forth they started missing.hey chief do moves that don't check accuracy not work as abilities?
That's a good thing. Healthy discussion about what's wrong with the tier is how we avoid bans/clauses that are unneeded, and improve the meta as a whole. If the consensus is that volt/turn itself is the problem then so be it.By the way, sorry about this but, I don't know if everyone will agree with you.
Throughout all of my battles so far Mew has been a huge thorn in my side, but I don't think it's suffocating at all. I only ever felt suffocated by these teams when every mon had either u-turn or dragon tail as a forte. Any less than that it just gets beat down by hazards and contact damage. Mew can't really switch in on a neutral/supereffective hit since every mon in this meta hits like a truck. I don't think Mew could out-recover the damage it takes, especially since it has -6 priority on every move. The only problem I have with dragon tail is the random chance aspect. Sometimes it's really REALLY bad for you, but other times it's really REALLY good.I don't think a forte clause really resolves the problem, because pivot teams only really need 1 u-turn, 1 volt switch, and mew to be suffocating.
I don't think limiting teams to a single pivot really resolved the interaction between a pivot and shuffle Mew sets - unless we extend the one pivot rule to pokemon actually running u-turn/volt switch/parting shot (nothing does but consistency), at which point I think we should just ban it - but it would make them mildly less oppressive.
I'll admit, I'm not quite sure what you're trying to get at. As I understand it, the clause some people want to be put in place is: Every forte move must be unique. This doesn't stop people from using nuzzle as a forte, it stops people from using 2 different mons both having nuzzle as a forte. If you really wanted to, you could have a discharge forte alongside your nuzzle user, but there's little to no point. Same goes for the overlapping effects. You could (theoretically) have every single mon on your team have a 60% chance to flinch using 6 different moves in the forte slot; the only thing this proposed forte clause would do is make that harder to build around. Not to mention you can do all of this right now anyways, except much much easier. Please, correct me if I'm misunderstanding what you're saying.I suspect a Forte clause will get rather untenable. You can stack Fortes with the same effect but unequal chances (e.g. Nuzzle and Discharge, Steam Eruption and Scald, Seed Flare and Psychic) and Fortes whose effects overlap (e.g. Flare Blitz and Fire Punch, Ice Fang and Iron Head). How are we supposed to handle those: ban them or free them?
Greninja can come it and threaten them, hydro cannon ohkos kartana, and it generates free momentum. So far post priority ban, this metagame has been very offensive.What are some good Fire, Fighting, Rock and Steel checks in this tier?
This 100%. 4/6 of my team members don't even use move items because there's literally no reason to do so outside of using u-turn or volt switch, which I don't use because I'd be a hypocrite of I did.View attachment 146300
I would like to express some concerns in regarding the meta and what I have used to reach the spot I am currently at.
Firstly, what I used to get there
Toxapex @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Baneful Bunker
- Scald
- Haze
- Recover
While Infestation might be the item of choice, Rocky Helmet has proven to be infinitely more useful. Due to the nature of u-turn being a contact move, every time Greninja, Tornadus, or other u-turner comes in they lose 1/6 of their health when they leave, and, in tornadus's case, baneful bunker makes sure they get poisoned, so it is possible to stall out the turn torn switches in, the protect turn, and the rocky helmet damage. I have seen garchomp and ferrothorn try to do what this set does to much less success as neither have regenerator or reliable recovery. This set also works well because knock off is nonexistent due to moves not being able to be knocked off making it mostly pointless. The things to look out for are hazard setters, as toxapex can't do anything about them or pokemon with reliable recovery as toxapex doesn't do enough damage to deal with them. The reason Def is maxed out rather than SpD is because all specail attackers barring zapdos and koko don't do enough damage for it to be a problem, and even if pex did run SpD they would still 2hko without the baneful bunker poison. this leaves u-turners and zeraora, which toxapex takes a little over half from, but because pex can recover and most teams aren't going to pack two pokemon that can 2hko pex easily this isn't a problem.
Latias @ Leftovers/Latiasite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Roost
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
This set is a bit more outlandish, but can snowball very quickly. the only pokemon that beat it are buzzwole and sheer cold araquanid.
252+ SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. +2 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 186-222 (51 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Greninja-Ash Dark Pulse vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 158-188 (43.4 - 51.6%) -- 9.4% chance to 2HKO
While that may look subpar, so long as latias outspeeds one of them, it can go for another calm mind boost. the physical defense completely walls kartana, buzzwole, zeraora, and victini, allowing you to set up on them.
Now for the concerns:
several teams that I have encountered have been essentially just an OU team with a u-turn/volt switch item user or two or volt-turn teams entirely. The latter can be fixed with a limiter, but the former is what I fear will happen if the latter does. I have found much greater success with using strait OU mons with normal held items, I have seen mega scizors, medichams, heck I use hone claws aerodactyl with eq, edge and fire fang to outspeed and sweep volt-turn teams. The viability of moves as held items is shrinking and I feel that other than pivot attacking, fury cutter is the only other good option, and that is limited to sharpedo, mew, weavile (which I haven't seen in a minute), and kartana. I know that in due time if people start using rocky helmet, knock-off will become more common, which will then make pivoting more popular due to knock-off mostly beating u-turn damage and helmet doesn't even beat volt switch.
TL;DR: I am worried that non-move items will become more viable than move items thus making the metagame OU 2, as I have had great success using non-move item pokemon.
Sheer cold araqnuid? Do ohko moves work as fortes? I've tried guilliotine kartana and it fails.View attachment 146300
I would like to express some concerns in regarding the meta and what I have used to reach the spot I am currently at.
Firstly, what I used to get there
Toxapex @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Baneful Bunker
- Scald
- Haze
- Recover
While Infestation might be the item of choice, Rocky Helmet has proven to be infinitely more useful. Due to the nature of u-turn being a contact move, every time Greninja, Tornadus, or other u-turner comes in they lose 1/6 of their health when they leave, and, in tornadus's case, baneful bunker makes sure they get poisoned, so it is possible to stall out the turn torn switches in, the protect turn, and the rocky helmet damage. I have seen garchomp and ferrothorn try to do what this set does to much less success as neither have regenerator or reliable recovery. This set also works well because knock off is nonexistent due to moves not being able to be knocked off making it mostly pointless. The things to look out for are hazard setters, as toxapex can't do anything about them or pokemon with reliable recovery as toxapex doesn't do enough damage to deal with them. The reason Def is maxed out rather than SpD is because all specail attackers barring zapdos and koko don't do enough damage for it to be a problem, and even if pex did run SpD they would still 2hko without the baneful bunker poison. this leaves u-turners and zeraora, which toxapex takes a little over half from, but because pex can recover and most teams aren't going to pack two pokemon that can 2hko pex easily this isn't a problem.
Latias @ Leftovers/Latiasite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Roost
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
This set is a bit more outlandish, but can snowball very quickly. the only pokemon that beat it are buzzwole and sheer cold araquanid.
252+ SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. +2 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 186-222 (51 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Greninja-Ash Dark Pulse vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 158-188 (43.4 - 51.6%) -- 9.4% chance to 2HKO
While that may look subpar, so long as latias outspeeds one of them, it can go for another calm mind boost. the physical defense completely walls kartana, buzzwole, zeraora, and victini, allowing you to set up on them.
Now for the concerns:
several teams that I have encountered have been esentially just an OU team with a u-turn/volt switch item user or two or volt-turn teams entirely. The latter can be fixed with a limiter, but the former is what I fear will happen if the latter does. I have found much greater success with using strait OU mons with normal held items, I have seen mega scizors, medichams, heck I use hone claws aerodactyl with eq, edge and fire fang to outspeed and sweep volt-turn teams. The viability of moves as held items is shrinking and I feel that other than pivot attacking, fury cutter is the only other good option, and that is limited to sharpedo, mew, weavile (which I haven't seen in a minute), and kartana. I know that in due time if people start using rocky helmet, knock-off will become more common, which will then make pivoting more popular due to knock-off mostly beating u-turn damage and helmet doesn't even beat volt switch.
TL;DR: I am worried that non-move items will become more viable than move items thus making the metagame OU 2, as I have had great success using non-move item pokemon.
I'm assuming he meant Frost Breath.Sheer cold araqnuid? Do ohko moves work as fortes? I've tried guilliotine kartana and it fails.
the only pokemon that beat it are buzzwole and sheer cold araquanid.
the physical defense completely walls buzzwole
It basically doesn't if you hold a move as an item. Think of itemized moves as Z-Crystals. (The simulator even claims opposing itemized moves are Ultranecrozium Z, probably to justifiably hide which one your opponent is using because you similarly don't know until it's too late.)How does Acrobatics work?
OHKO moves don't have any effect as Fortes even in mashups where OHKO Clause is removed. I don't think they're implemented.Sheer cold araqnuid? Do ohko moves work as fortes? I've tried guilliotine kartana and it fails.
Nope--I just checked regular Showdown, and it said my team with 2 U-turn-as-Forte users was still legal.Does the forte clause work? I have just seen some annoying all-turns team on ladder.
hope it could be fixed quickly :/Nope--I just checked regular Showdown, and it said my team with 2 U-turn-as-Forte users was still legal.