Genesect

[UltiMario]

gg Dream World, gg

it was fun while it lasted

DW still has Chandelure and a better ban list.

It's not all over =p

But yeah. Excited for Genesect. Maybe I'll pull out one of my old PO teams from early DW OU that had Genesect and see if they still work.

I wouldn't be surprised if I started to run Genesect on most my teams now, so good <3

 

[lostaurora]

This is the Genesect I always used in DW matches:

Genesect @ Choice Scarf

Ability: Download
Nature: Rash
EVs: 52 Atk / 252 SpA / 204 Spe
- U-turn
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Bug Buzz / Flamethrower

Having played DW for a long time, I have no doubt that Scarf is by far the most efficient use of Genesect's abilities. Furthermore, every ScarfSect needs U-Turn; Download-boosted U-turn coupled with BoltBeam coverage is invaluable. Genesect was fantastic at creating momentum and checking threats like Tar, Politoed, Lati@s, Dragonite, etc. all at the same time. It's no exaggeration to say that Genesect was always the key to winning - I can say with confidence that in over 90% of the matches I played against opposing ScarfSect users, the first player to lose their Genesect also lost the match. I always used Naive to allow Genesect to take priority moves a bit better. The EVs put slightly more punch in all of its attacks, and let Genesect hit 285 Speed. It was just enough to U-turn out of Chandelure and revenge DDNite - DD Haxorus wasn't common, and didn't care about tying other ScarfSect because I would never risk losing that speed tie.

I always used U-Turn/Thunder/Ice Beam, with Bug Buzz or Flamethrower in the last slot. Flamethrower was useful primarily against opposing Genesect, Ferrothorn, and Scizor, whereas I liked Bug Buzz as STAB that didn't force me to switch out, and fared better against the likes of Slowbro and Reuniclus. With Flamethrower, I would never risk the speed tie with other Genesect; Ferrothorn was usually packaged with Rain, and I generally had other resources to deal with the (less prominent) Scizor. When I built teams that had more trouble with Sun, I sometimes ran Explosion in the fourth slot to surprise Ninetales with a 250 BP, Download-boosted nuke. However, I would never consider letting Genesect die unless I was almost certain it could take out an opposing weather inducer.

An important distinction between Genesect and Scizor is that the Download boost coupled with Scarf boost and great coverage makes Genesect so much more immediately fearsome. On the other hand, especially from early to mid-game, I found myself mostly spamming +1 U-turns. Things that could stay in on Scizor - think Forretress, Skarmory, Keldeo, Thundurus, Dragonite, and even Politoed, can't risk doing the same against Genesect for fear of its special coverage moves, making racking up U-turn damage that much easier. And yes, this is pure theorymon, but standard ScarfSect handles most of this July's top 20 very well. Heatran, Terrakion, and Gengar are the most solid answers to Genesect out of the top 20.

1) Politoed - Thunder(bolt)/U-Turn
2) Scizor - Flamethrower
3) Ferrothorn - Flamethrower
4) Dragonite - Ice Beam
5) Heatran - If your opponent is smart, they will switch Heatran into Genesect 100% of the time: U-turn out every time.
6) Jirachi - U-turn/Flamethrower (if weakened, and not in rain)
7) Breloom - Ice Beam
8) Gliscor - Ice Beam
9) Tyranitar - U-turn
10) Tornadus - Thunder(bolt)/Ice Beam
11) Starmie - U-turn
12) Rotom-W - U-turn
13) Thundurus - Ice Beam (beware of Scarfed Thunder)
14) Salamence - Ice Beam (I expect Jolly DD MoxieMence will rise with Genesect's release, as it handily outspeeds ScarfSect)
15) Forretress - Flamethrower
16) Latios - U-turn (beware of Scarfed variants with HP Fire - no joke)
17) Mamoswine - U-turn
18) Terrakion - U-turn
19) Gengar - U-turn
20) Tentacruel - Thunder(bolt)

 

[GoliathGarchomp]

Genesect @ Choice Scarf

Ability: Download
Nature: Rash
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- U-turn
- Thunderbolt/Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Bug Buzz /Flamethrower

Dugtrio @ Focus Sash

Ability: Arena Trap
Nature: Jolly/Adamant
Reversal
Earthquake
Stealth Rock/Stone Edge
Sucker Punch/Stone Edge

I feel this could become a very potent offensive core. From what iv heard Heatran is one of Genesect's biggest counters. With Duggi in the back of your pocket it makes it very hard for your opponent to switch in Heatran as you can potentially just U-Turn out into Duggtrio and trap Heatran. Then without Heatran Genesect can just destroy teams. Obviously you can use differnt Dugtrio sets from the one I mention above but I was just using this as an example. This can also work well with other potential trappers such as Magnezone and Chandelure (When Released) which can both get rid of mosyt bulky steels that Genesect might struggle with, especially if it's lacking flamethrower.

 

[TyranitarAbuser]

From what I've seen so far, I think a Scarf/Specs set will be the most used when this comes out. Like Goliath Garchomp mentioned, Dugtrio or some other ground type like both the Landorus formes will be a great partner, forming an offensive core. It can also be used on rain, abusing Thunder and removing its fire type weakness

 

[Groombridge]

Rotom-H has been waiting for this moment its whole life. It's the only thing in the entire game that resists Bug, Boltbeam and Fire, and needless to say it can easily OHKO Genesect - provided it can catch it. SR weakness means it can't switch in too often, though. If you can keep SR at bay, Rotom-H will scare Genesect off every time, unless it packs HP Water.

Magnezone in the rain doesn't give two shits about Genesect either - the only problem is that Scarfed U-turn getting it out of trouble before you hit it.

Tricking it might work - Metagross giving it an Iron Ball, even Floatzel sneaking a Flame Orb onto it will help.

 

[TyranitarAbuser]

I think a Flamethrower coming off a 120 SPA will be enough to take out a Magnezone if Genesect is not Choice-locked. Rotom-H may be a threat, now that I have reconsidered a little, which brings me back to my suggestion of using rain. A Heatran on the Genesect user's side may also fit nicely to absorb fire attacks, lay down rocks to deter opposing fire types, and shuffle the opposing team with Roar.

 

[Jimbon]

While Rotom-H might have a certain niche for taking on Genesect, it's not really going to be reliable given that Genesect is going to be U-Turning until all of it's checks are down. Once it U-Turns out, it can easily go into something else like Terrakion or Rotom-W to take it on. Your best bet to deal with Genesect is to carry your own, or use a similar offensive style with a faster scarfer than Genesect. The only real thing letting Genesect down imo, is that base 99 speed, which among common scarfers is not that fast.

 

[John Wallrein]

What do you guys think the best EV spread speed wise for Scarf Genesect would be in standard play? I've seen both the 204 w/ Rash and 252 with timid posted. Obviously with its 99 speed stat it is outspeed by common 100 + 101 Scarfers so I was wondering if it's worth it to invest in that speed or add to power?

 

[Ignismare]

I think a Flamethrower coming off a 120 SPA will be enough to take out a Magnezone if Genesect is not Choice-locked

Checked it just now. Everything depends on the stat currently boosted by Download:

252 +1 SpAtk Genesect Flamethrower vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Magnezone: 113.88% - 134.52% (Guaranteed OHKO)
252 SpAtk Genesect Flamethrower vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Magnezone: 76.16% - 90.39% (2 hits to KO)

Both bugs are Scarfed and Timid (tried Rash too, the results weren't very different, +1 instant-kills, stock leaves him with 2-3% left, so the outcome is the same), as most sets here use that. So yeah, if Genesect switches into Magnezone, you can kiss the little magnet goodbye, but if you manage to somehow put Magnezone in without getting it harmed (on a switch, after a sac etc), you're guaranteed a OHKO with HP Fire. So yeah, it's pretty risky and leaves Zone practically dead, but it might do the trick.

 

[Birkal]

Just posting real quick to say that Genesect is now released in Overused on Pokemon Showdown!, so pop on there if you want to give it a whirl. I have the feeling it's going to rock OU pretty hard; this thing is a monster from my past experience with the Dream World metagame. Good luck, haha.

I also wanted to show you guys the resources that we currently have available on Genesect. This thread, the Dream World Genesect thread, and the Dream World Genesect Analysis all contain a lot of information on how to use this new Pokemon. Enjoy!

 

[android]

If it's raining (and it often is in OU), 252 HP Magnezone can take 2 +1 Flamethrowers and manhandle Genesect with Thunder, OHKOing with a Life Orb, Specs, or a Charge Beam boost. Switching Genesect in on Magnezone probably isn't a good idea.

Also, if Magnezone comes in after you killed something with T-Bolt or Ice Beam (you should always U-Turn if Zone is still around) you're pretty much finished. Assuming you are Scarfed, of course.

@ the guy posting below:

Genesect did not get Superpower. That's one of the things Scizor has over him.

 

[Bossness]

Genesect got superpower from tutors.
4Atk +1 Genesect (Neutral) Superpower vs 252HP/0Def Flash Fire Heatran (Neutral): 74% - 88% (288 - 340 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
Is that good enough? Its a guaranteed 2hko on its former counter.

 

[Stratos]

In my opinion, there are three good Genesect sets. There's the scarf set, which everyone was already peeing themselves over, and then there are two other sets that I used to success in DW OU:

Genesect @ Expert Belt
Download
Naive
252 SpA / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
-U-turn
-Bug Buzz / Flamethrower
-Ice Beam
-Thunderbolt.

The goal of this set is actually very simple. Bluff a scarf as long as possible; nab a surprise KO with your hawt coverage. It works every time, too.

the other set is less obvious:

Genesect @ Life Orb
Download
Naive
252 Spa / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
-Flame Charge
-Bug Buzz
-Thunderbolt
-Ice Beam

It's like a rock polish set, but better! Early game, Genesect can help its team out the same way the expert belt set above can - revenge stuff with its coverage, or even just threaten to. But the beauty of this set is in the mid (quickly to become late) game - switch in on something that gives you a SpA boost, then use Flame Charge and go to town! Why flame charge? When you run calcs with a Rock Polish set, you find yourself coming up sadly a bit short against a lot of steels. Flame charge means these steels aren't allowed to switch in so easy. Calcs:

Genesect LO Flame Charge and then +1 Bug Buzz vs Ferrothorn: Guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Lefties. Without the Flame Charge? 69% max
Genesect LO Flame Charge and then +1 Bug Buzz vs SubCM Jirachi: 94.55% - 100%. Without the flame charge? 78% max

those are the big two, but it also helps vs rarer things like metagross or empoleon that may try to stop you. The only real drawback is the inability to beat heatran or magnezone in any way, but its sweeping potential is so good that i love it anyway

 

[Zentrius]

Genesect got superpower from tutors.
4Atk +1 Genesect (Neutral) Superpower vs 252HP/0Def Flash Fire Heatran (Neutral): 74% - 88% (288 - 340 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
Is that good enough? Its a guaranteed 2hko on its former counter.

I actually would run a Scarf set with U-Turn, Superpower, Thunderbolt and Ice Beam. What oes Flamethrower hit neutrally that Superpower can't?

 

[haunter]

You need the download boost in Atk in order to 2hko Ferrothorn and even with that boost you fail the 2hko on Scizor: +0 Atk superpower against Scizor does 29,74% - 34,99%, +1 Atk does 44,31% - 52,19% (never a 2hko since you get the Atk drop after the 1st use). Technically even Forretress can be troublesome without flamethrower but all it can do in return is setting up some hazards. Oh and, Metagross (lol) and Jirachi can actually take everything that set can throw at them, especially the latter.

 

[lostaurora]

Genesect can't learn Superpower, or it would be a great 4th-slot option.

 

[Bossness]

Genesect can't learn Superpower, or it would be a great 4th-slot option.

Genesect's tutor moves:
Move Tutors
Signal Beam, Low Kick, Magic Coat, Gravity, Superpower, Zen Headbutt, Bind, Snore, Role Play, Drain Punch, Trick, Wonder Room, Recycle, Snatch, Stealth Rock, Sleep Talk, Skill Swap

Skill swap against heatran would make Genesect immune to fire. The other moves have their uses but are better left for other pokemon.
EDIT: I took those from the uber genesect thread. They have now been corrected there. These are Deoxys-A's Tutor moves as the guy below pointed out.
Anyways, the real moves are here: http://veekun.com/dex/pokemon/genesect

 

[android]

Genesect's tutor moves:
Move Tutors
Signal Beam, Low Kick, Magic Coat, Gravity, Superpower, Zen Headbutt, Bind, Snore, Role Play, Drain Punch, Trick, Wonder Room, Recycle, Snatch, Stealth Rock, Sleep Talk, Skill Swap

Skill swap against heatran would make Genesect immune to fire. The other moves have their uses but are better left for other pokemon.

Those are Deoxys Attack Forme's tutor moves.

Genesect learns Bug Bite, Dark Pulse, Electroweb, Giga Drain, Gravity, Gunk Shot, Iron Defense, Iron Head, Last Resort, Magic Coat, Magnet Rise, Recycle, Signal Beam, Sleep Talk, Snore, and Zen Headbutt from tutors.

Genesect learns no Fighting-type moves.

 

[Afti]

Played with the Scarf set on the ladder briefly; hits incredibly hard, but Genesect is really frail. It's compared to Scizor, and they're similar in many ways, but I think Scizor will still have its niche in not being so absurdly delicate. Yeah, 95 base defenses, but abominable HP and the requirement to run a -Def or -SpD nature (if you want U-turn to do decent damage; you're not going to run a physical set with this thing, don't even try, Attack is great but the physical movepool is abysmal) mean that those don't go far.

Bug/Steel is an incredible defensive typing, but with Genesect you're not switching into random physical attacks like with Scizor; Bug/Steel's lack of weaknesses means that you don't get OHKO'd by everything. That's it.

 

[voodoo pimp]

Played with the Scarf set on the ladder briefly; hits incredibly hard, but Genesect is really frail. It's compared to Scizor, and they're similar in many ways, but I think Scizor will still have its niche in not being so absurdly delicate. Yeah, 95 base defenses, but abominable HP and the requirement to run a -Def or -SpD nature (if you want U-turn to do decent damage; you're not going to run a physical set with this thing, don't even try, Attack is great but the physical movepool is abysmal) mean that those don't go far.

Bug/Steel is an incredible defensive typing, but with Genesect you're not switching into random physical attacks like with Scizor; Bug/Steel's lack of weaknesses means that you don't get OHKO'd by everything. That's it.

Er, what? 71/95 physical bulk is barely worse than Scizor's 70/100, only real difference is that Scizor usually has some HP EVs. On the special side, Genesect is actually bulkier than Scizor (71/95 vs 70/80, again disregarding EVs).

 

[Ithilanor]

Considering that Scizor usually runs 248 HP EVs, that's a pretty substantial difference. Also, there's the issue that Afti mentioned with natures. Just looking at the base stats doesn't give the full picture, here.

 

[tcr]

its probably been said, but since i really have no input since everything's been said, what is the real reason to use genesect over scizor, other than movepool? it still has more or less same checks and counters, except scizor gets priority and an arguably better ability. download is only good if you can predict right. all the opponent has to do is switch on your predicted switch, or mess with the ivs a little. (granted, its still a good ability)

and since scizor and genesect are so similar, albeit, blissey+skarmory similar, will ou be seeing a core reminiscent of 4th gen ubers rayquaza and salamence?

EDIT: ok, genesect is like a special scizor. still, no priority and a trollish speed that basically has to always run flame charge or scarf

 

[Afti]

Er, what? 71/95 physical bulk is barely worse than Scizor's 70/100, only real difference is that Scizor usually has some HP EVs. On the special side, Genesect is actually bulkier than Scizor (71/95 vs 70/80, again disregarding EVs).

Scizor can get away with investing in its HP; Genesect can't. Has to invest in Speed; doesn't have strong priority. And it's pretty much forced to lose 10% from one defense or the other.

re: "why use Genesect over Scizor"- Genesect's advantages over Scizor are many- fantastic coverage, the ability to hit hard from both ends of the spectrum, (it's not a "special Scizor"; Genesect doesn't lose the ability to deal major damage with its physical attacks!) and a much better Speed stat. Scizor has its advantages, too, though; it can afford to invest in its defenses, has a better physical movepool, and has strong priority. They're different Pokémon, and, while Genesect is going to cut into Scizor's usage quite a bit, Scizor still has its own niche that Genesect can't touch. And vice versa.

As for the two working well together- VoltTurn needs to switch into resistances whenever possible; Scizor and Genesect cover too much of the same defensive territory.

 

[android]

Download is always good on a Pokemon with stats like Genesect and really requires no prediction whatsoever. He isn't really looking to sweep until late game, just to hit you with +1 U-Turns and to give you control over the game. If your opponent switches when you U-Turn, they have played right into your hands. It does what Scizor does while generally being faster and overall more threatening.

Scizor and Genesect don't have the same checks. Not even close. Neither Skarmory nor Gliscor can check Genesect. Heatran can always check Genesect, but has to watch out for Superpower (which Genesect lacks) from Scizor.

Genesect is not like a special Scizor. Genesect's Special moves are considerably more threatening and unpredictable than Scizor's standard set of Bullet Punch, U-Turn, Pursuit and Superpower. This is why many people opt to use Genesect over Scizor. It's not that Scizor is outclassed per-se, it's that running Scizor and Genesect on the same team is not a good idea, as they do not synergize well. Genesect doesn't need priority to do it's thing; it's not trying to be Scizor, and it really can't.

The guy above said it well.

Scizor can get away with investing in its HP; Genesect can't. Has to invest in Speed; doesn't have strong priority. And it's pretty much forced to lose 10% from one defense or the other.

Genesect could conceivably run Max HP and Speed with a Timid nature if you wanted a 'bulky' set. Download would still give it a hell of a punch. I would always run max Speed, though.

 

[tcr]

for checks, i was really talking about magnezone(minus flamethrower from gene) and heatran. if both switch in safe, they can both wreck.....both! magnezone isnt ohkoed by superpower(least, not ones ive seen) but still doesnt like getting hit. heatran cant take superpower but can ko both pokemon with STAB fire blast/flamethrower/lava plume.

by a core like that, i was talking more banded scizor + specs genesect and or scarved.