ORAS OU Getting back on strategic pokemon/// Stall team

[HMSesthetic]

Hi, it's my first RMT and it's been a while since i didn't played any competitive pokemon ( i think it was during the Gold/Silver era) but i still looked some tournaments and played the game casually until Black/White. I got back on the tracks due to some friends who plays it and i remembered i loved stall so i made a stall team to regain knowledge of pokemons. I have surely lost my teambuilding techniques and i have certainly lost my playing skills since i make so much mistakes.
The main things i'm not sure of are the items, the evs and the defensive coverage. The EVs are not mine, they are inspired from the smogon's strategical pokedex and it don't take any calcs into account, so it is probably bad to counter specifics threats. The items are leftovers and i don't think it's always the best choice but i can't decide myself. And last but not least, i'm not sure if i counter the main threats and if i counter them well.
So i require you to rate my team and correct my way of thinking when i'm doing it wrong. Ty in advance for all.

Sableye @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Foul Play

Mega-Sableye is the mega of my team. I use him to counter pokemons who setup hazards like ferro or to negate the power of a physical attacker such as M-Lopunny or Scizor.

Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
- Volt Switch
- Toxic​

Foretress is my rapidspinner/SR user and my defenseive wall. He is there to lead or to take some hits from a lifeorber, use toxic if not steel, and voltswitch back.

Slowbro @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Slack Off
- Thunder Wave
- Psyshock

Slowbro is the secondary defensive wall and pivot. He checks M-Charizard X and he is used to T-wave Manaphy, which is the pokemon I have the most trouble to deal with and has often 6-0 swept me.

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 64 Def / 180 SpD / 16 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Roost
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Toxic

Zapdos replaced Altaria as a spedef check for Manaphy and Serperior. I don't run defog since i have Sableye and Forretress.​

Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Heal bell
- Protect
- Wish​

Sylveon is the other Spedef support pokemon. I wanted a wisher to work with the last pokemon and i already kicked Chansey out, lefting my imo no other choices than Sylveon or Clefable. I didn't want to use Clefable for no other reasons than i don't like this pokemon. He is used to check and wall AtkSpe threat like Thundurus or Gengar and wish to get some member of the team back.
Changed toxic for HealBell thank to Dark G.

Victini @ Leftovers
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 248 HP / 132 Atk / 68 Def / 60 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp
- V-create
- Bolt Strike

Victini serves as a stallbreaker and kills calm mind users. I worked first with Spedef Taonflame but i found Victini more consistent in his role and he works wonder with Sylveon.

Previous sets

Altaria @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Dragon Pulse
- Heal Bell
- Roost
- Toxic

Specially defensive/healbeller Altaria. I found him to be the perfect counter to Serperior as he can take every hit if Seperior doesn't run HP-ice. It also serves to toxic Manaphy but it never worked out. I wanted a healbeller or aromatherapist but i disliked Chansey since it was getting swept by any Nastyplot-like user and i found Ground-immunity pretty helpful.

​

I'd like to thank you for all the answers you can give me and i'll notice you that the pokemons i'd like to keep are Slowpoke and Foretress. Once again, ty and have a good day!

 

[Thatwackycruton]

Seems to be a solid idea of a team, but the first and most immediate change I would suggest is dropping Altaria. I'm sorry if altaria is a favorite of yours. but it's pretty awful without its mega. Also, it doesn't stop serperior, especially with rocks up. In it's place, I'd recommend ParaShuffler Dragonite. It's essentially better in absolutely every way outside of not having heal bell. Then, I'd recommend replacing Sylveon with Unaware Clefable. Unaware Clef could still keep the heal bell you're looking for as well as carrying the fairy typing that Sylveon had. Furthermore, It can stop powerful setup sweepers like Mega Gyarados, Dragonite, and, a godsend for this team, manaphy. (If you don't know, unaware ignores your opponent's boosts) Finally, you might consider running Calm Mind+Shadow Ball over Foul Play and Knock Off on your Sableye. I feel that this team needs a win condition against opposing stall teams. So, To sum it up;

ParaShuffler/Defensive Dragonite>Altaria
Unaware Clefable>Sylveon
Calm Mind Sableye>Utility

The sets can be found on smogon if you're looking for EVs. Wishing you good luck in your teambuilding!

 

[Dark G]

Hey HMSesthetic, welcome back to competitive pokemon. As stall teams are quite rare in the RMT section, yours really intrigued me as it is without a doubt one of my favorite archetypes to play.

First off, Stall is completely different in ORAS than it was in GSC. While you could have every relevant threat covered in GSC, you simply can't in ORAS as there are just far too many unfortunately. For this reason, stall teams focus on covering the most common trends and pokemon in the tier rather than everything.

Looking at your team, the most common pokemon in the current meta that your team is weak to is Bisharp. Bisharp is a mon that most stall teams have trouble dealing with but there are a few mons that can comfortably deal with it and that are also suited for stall teams. I'd like to replace Forretress for defensive Hippowdon to serve as your main Bisharp answer on your team but be careful as Hippo must be at full health to check a Bisharp at +2. Forretress is really passive and while rapid spinning is the main reason to use Forretress, you already have M-Sableye for entry hazard control and even then we can find much better and reliable alternatives to remove hazards in the form of defog users.

I also recommend that you replace Altaria with defog Zapdos. Defog Zapdos gives you a secondary form of entry hazard removal that can remove hazards on Stealth Rock setters that M-Sableye can't block (i.e, Heatran, Clefable, etc). Since removing Altaria will leave your team without a cleric, I suggest putting Heal Bell on sylveon over Toxic to fulfill that role.

Suggested Sets

Hippowdon (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Force
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Slack Off
- Stone Edge

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 176 Def / 68 SpA / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Roost
- Defog
- Heat Wave

Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Wish
- Heal Bell
- Protect
- Hyper Voice

 

[HMSesthetic]

Seems to be a solid idea of a team, but the first and most immediate change I would suggest is dropping Altaria. I'm sorry if altaria is a favorite of yours. but it's pretty awful without its mega. Also, it doesn't stop serperior, especially with rocks up. In it's place, I'd recommend ParaShuffler Dragonite. It's essentially better in absolutely every way outside of not having heal bell. Then, I'd recommend replacing Sylveon with Unaware Clefable. Unaware Clef could still keep the heal bell you're looking for as well as carrying the fairy typing that Sylveon had. Furthermore, It can stop powerful setup sweepers like Mega Gyarados, Dragonite, and, a godsend for this team, manaphy. (If you don't know, unaware ignores your opponent's boosts) Finally, you might consider running Calm Mind+Shadow Ball over Foul Play and Knock Off on your Sableye. I feel that this team needs a win condition against opposing stall teams. So, To sum it up;

ParaShuffler/Defensive Dragonite>Altaria
Unaware Clefable>Sylveon
Calm Mind Sableye>Utility

The sets can be found on smogon if you're looking for EVs. Wishing you good luck in your teambuilding!

Ty for your answer. I was really not sure for Altaria and chose him because i had no idea of how to deal with serperior and it seemed okay. The Dragonite is interesting but i don't think he fits my playstyle. I'm not that much of a hazard user and i already have a t-wave user that won't move out of the team. I'll probably use him for an other stall team tho.
I agree with your thinking about Clefable. I'm not a big fan of this pokemon but i'll try him and will see if he's better than sylveon.
I'm still trying the two sets for Sableye. On one hand, i feel like i need to have a Knock Off to deal with leftovers and increase the damages of status but on the other hand, i find him really weak and calm mind could help.

 

[HMSesthetic]

Hey HMSesthetic, welcome back to competitive pokemon. As stall teams are quite rare in the RMT section, yours really intrigued me as it is without a doubt one of my favorite archetypes to play.

First off, Stall is completely different in ORAS than it was in GSC. While you could have every relevant threat covered in GSC, you simply can't in ORAS as there are just far too many unfortunately. For this reason, stall teams focus on covering the most common trends and pokemon in the tier rather than everything.

Looking at your team, the most common pokemon in the current meta that your team is weak to is Bisharp. Bisharp is a mon that most stall teams have trouble dealing with but there are a few mons that can comfortably deal with it and that are also suited for stall teams. I'd like to replace Forretress for defensive Hippowdon to serve as your main Bisharp answer on your team but be careful as Hippo must be at full health to check a Bisharp at +2. Forretress is really passive and while rapid spinning is the main reason to use Forretress, you already have M-Sableye for entry hazard control and even then we can find much better and reliable alternatives to remove hazards in the form of defog users.

I also recommend that you replace Altaria with defog Zapdos. Defog Zapdos gives you a secondary form of entry hazard removal that can remove hazards on Stealth Rock setters that M-Sableye can't block (i.e, Heatran, Clefable, etc). Since removing Altaria will leave your team without a cleric, I suggest putting Heal Bell on sylveon over Toxic to fulfill that role.

Suggested Sets

Hippowdon (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Force
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Slack Off
- Stone Edge

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 176 Def / 68 SpA / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Roost
- Defog
- Heat Wave

Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Wish
- Heal Bell
- Protect
- Hyper Voice

I really didn't had trouble with Bisharp due to Victini who can tank a Sucker punch if there is no stealth rocks and OHKO with V-create.
132 Atk Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Bisharp: 440-518 (162.3 - 191.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 248 HP / 68 Def Victini: 307-367 (76.1 - 91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
For this reason and because i like Forretress, i don't think i'll take Hippodown but i'll keep him in mind.

Since then, i don't think defog Zapdos is a great idea because i have Sableye and Forretress. Could toxic be a good replacement since i only have one other toxic user as forretress? Or should i use HeatWave?

 

[Thatwackycruton]

That's Fine if you don't want to take my suggestion, but Dragonite has better stats (okay, 5 less special defense)
Then altaria, and the only thing that alt gets over it is heal bell. Also, DarkG's answer for defog Zapdos was good, too. Dragonite has the ability multiscale. If you're unaware (pun intended), Multiscale Halves damage when you're at full hp, making it extremely hard to take down from full hp, even with an ice attack. You could run the exact same set on Dnite that you're running on alt now minus heal bell to much greater success. (you'd probably want dragon Claw over Dragon pulse due to dragonite's higher attack.) So, "Not fitting your playstyle" Isn't really a reasonable answer as to why you don't use Dragonite. It will work better, and it's been made abundantly clear that other, better heal bell users are available. You don't really need to take this suggestion, but if you choose to reply to it you should have a more accurate answer as to why you won't take a suggestion. Good Luck!

 

[HMSesthetic]

That's Fine if you don't want to take my suggestion, but Dragonite has better stats (okay, 5 less special defense)
Then altaria, and the only thing that alt gets over it is heal bell. Also, DarkG's answer for defog Zapdos was good, too. Dragonite has the ability multiscale. If you're unaware (pun intended), Multiscale Halves damage when you're at full hp, making it extremely hard to take down from full hp, even with an ice attack. You could run the exact same set on Dnite that you're running on alt now minus heal bell to much greater success. (you'd probably want dragon Claw over Dragon pulse due to dragonite's higher attack.) So, "Not fitting your playstyle" Isn't really a reasonable answer as to why you don't use Dragonite. It will work better, and it's been made abundantly clear that other, better heal bell users are available. You don't really need to take this suggestion, but if you choose to reply to it you should have a more accurate answer as to why you won't take a suggestion. Good Luck!

Hey, ty for your answer. I tried both Dragonite and Zapdos todayunluckily, i didn't encountered any manaphy nor serperior so i'm still not sure of which one are the bests. Anyway, they are for sure better than altaria.
However, i found clefable worse than sylveon with the same set ( except Moon blast over Hyper Voice) but i think if i can get a good use of unaware, clefable has a place on my team. I'll need more time to decide who to pick.
IS that a good set for Dragonite? I chose earthquake to hit ferrothorn but i'm not sure if X-Speed wouldn't be better. Dragon tail is used to phaze some pokemons, it seemed to be better than claw overall.
Dragonite @ Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
- Roost
- Toxic
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail

 

[Thatwackycruton]

You seem to have a good instinct for this- I didn't even think of dragon tail, which is a better option. The set looks fine, but bold boosts physical defense, and if you're looking for a special wall, you'd want careful, which boosts Special Defense. If you enjoyed the extra physical bulk, however, you can keep it the way it is. Got nothing else to say besides wishing you good luck in future battles!

 

[Ajwf]

Edit: In all cases mentioned, I think Slowbro should move to a physically defensive wall. Manaphy isn't going to care about bro in most cases regardless of where his special defensive investment is. Your best option currently is zapdos anyways.

Really, I would suggest Heatran over Forretress and Defog over Toxic on Zapdos. The easiest reason is as of right now, this team gets ripped apart by volt switch pokemon (specifically, Raikou and Mega Manectric). There are a few other options here... Spdef hippowdon seems most obvious.

The two sets to choose from:


Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Slack Off
- Toxic

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Lava Plume
- Taunt
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock

The only other option to deal with electrics efficiently is to revert sylveon to chansey. Doing this, I would STILL suggest getting rid of forretress and taking Rhyperior, Chesnaught or Tangrowth instead (all pair well with Bro, who in this case would take his EVs in Spdef and put them into Def).

Pick one over Forretress, use Chansey > Sylveon. Personally I think Chesnaught has the closest synergy, especially since Rhyperior fills a full counter to bird spam+Zardx and physical defensive bro isn't bad for it. Quickly though, the chesnaught set there is my own. It isn't as bulky, but it outspeeds and OHKOs jolly azums with 100% consistency up to 96 hp. Anything else and it's assured after rocks. Takes rotom-wash from like 80%. Good tank all around, but a little more frail than the straight up analysis. I suggest this since I don't see you dealing with BD azum otherwise.

Rhyperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 212 HP / 44 Atk / 252 Def
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Rock Tomb
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch

Chesnaught @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Atk / 220 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Drain Punch
- Spikes
- Leech Seed

Tangrowth @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Giga Drain
- Knock Off
- Sleep Powder
- Hidden Power Ice


I realize this hurts a bit since you now have defog as opposed to rapid spin in all suggested cases. However, Forretress as a physical wall just isn't up to par anymore. Especially as a catch-all. Does nothing to help stop set-up sweeps, very little return damage, unreliable recovery. I think these would give you more consistency, especially against fast electrics.