With the new mechanics, weather has a completely new dynamic in Ubers. Instead of their being a sidelines fight over control of the battle conditions, permanent weather only lasts a mere 5 turns. (or 8 if user holds an extension rock like Icy Rock) How will this affect teams in ubers? Does Abomasnow even have a purpose in ubers anymore? Feel free to discuss any speculation concerning hail in this thread.
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Hail
- Thread starter MMII
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If Hail had a secondary perk besides giving Blizzard 100% accuracy and negating Leftovers recovery, then I think the nerf to weather would've put it on an even playing field with the other weathers, especially since Abomasnow gets a Mega Evo now to keep up with everyone, along with finally having another auto-inducer with Aurorus. It might find a niche in offensive BlizzSpam with the all of the Dragons everywhere, but now since Xerneas and Arceus-Fairy are a thing, Blizzard might not be as effective as it once was. I may try it one day, but it won't be something that people will see too often.
Garchompi
Banned deucer.
M-Abomasnow is a great Kyogre counter and given how easy is to Defog in ubers the SR weakness doesn't matter much anymore. Its offenses are also good enough to hurt most ubers so it's not exactly deadweight once Kyogre goes down. While I doubt there will be teams built around hail, M-Aboma has its own merits in ubers.
tbh hail was kind of bad before the nerf anyways, but now I don't see abomasnow getting use at all, even though it's a decent enough kyogre check in its own right. Still I don't think hail will really be usable this gen, if at all.
I also think its worth noting that aurorus gets this as a hidden ability (I think). It will probably be awful anyway though so whatever
I also think its worth noting that aurorus gets this as a hidden ability (I think). It will probably be awful anyway though so whatever
When I used Hail in gen 4, it was more about Abomasnow than the rest of the team tbh. An actual team based around Hail has never worked good.
As for Mega Abomasnow, well I guess it's nice that Ferrothorn is gonna be going down in usage, since Abomasnow REALLY hated that thing last gen. The main issue, is that you'll have to devote a Mega Slot for it. I'll probably try out Mega Abomasnow sometime, but with the weather nerf and taking up a mega slot, I don't have high hopes for it. So yeah, Hail is probably extra screwed this gen.
As for Mega Abomasnow, well I guess it's nice that Ferrothorn is gonna be going down in usage, since Abomasnow REALLY hated that thing last gen. The main issue, is that you'll have to devote a Mega Slot for it. I'll probably try out Mega Abomasnow sometime, but with the weather nerf and taking up a mega slot, I don't have high hopes for it. So yeah, Hail is probably extra screwed this gen.
Disclaimer: I am fairly new to competitive pokemon , and even newer to ubers, if I make any mistakes,
please correct me
While M-Abomasnow could be a great Kyrogre Check, It isn't really worth a mega slot for,
If you're going to get a mega for your team It's a bit of a waste, other than that though, Hail never really was that
popular in Ubers, With amount of TTars (cus of excadrill in BW), groudons, and kyogres running around (and maybe MY-Charizard this gen but I'm not sure). It could never really find a use with no Blizzard user outside of maybe, Kyurem-W, as for the changes this gen, and with poor Ferrothorns
decline, Abomasnow(but not M-Abomasnow) could find itself as a hail setter, but It really depends on how it unfolds
please correct me
While M-Abomasnow could be a great Kyrogre Check, It isn't really worth a mega slot for,
If you're going to get a mega for your team It's a bit of a waste, other than that though, Hail never really was that
popular in Ubers, With amount of TTars (cus of excadrill in BW), groudons, and kyogres running around (and maybe MY-Charizard this gen but I'm not sure). It could never really find a use with no Blizzard user outside of maybe, Kyurem-W, as for the changes this gen, and with poor Ferrothorns
decline, Abomasnow(but not M-Abomasnow) could find itself as a hail setter, but It really depends on how it unfolds
Garchompi
Banned deucer.
Well what other mega evolution is worth using in ubers? Even though Blaziken, Lucario, Gengar and Kangaskhan are all broken in OU, ubers is a different story.
Mega Lucario and Kangaskhan are easily walled by Lugia and Giratina, Mega Blaziken isn't that much of an upgrade compared to normal Blaziken and Mega Gengar is really frail and extremely vulnerable to common threats like Yveltal.
Mega Lucario and Kangaskhan are easily walled by Lugia and Giratina, Mega Blaziken isn't that much of an upgrade compared to normal Blaziken and Mega Gengar is really frail and extremely vulnerable to common threats like Yveltal.
Lugia loses to +2 kangas return while gira-a loses to crunch and gira-o loses to sucker punch. You clearly haven't tried using kanga in ubers if you say it's "easily" walled when it really isn't. It can be revenged but walled? Not likely. There aren't even that many safe switchins to it without knowing its full movepool.
I don't see the appeal of Luca at all. Frail beyond belief and most ubers can live a neutral/resisted close combat. Not to mention it's horrible as a xern check (50% damage to standard xern with 252+ bp lol)
Blaze is better off mentioned by someone else but I can say for a fact that blaze is actually much better this gen thanks to how its only true counter (gira/o) sees much less usage nowadays thanks to xerneas using them as setup bait. Megablaze is a minor upgrade if at all though.
Mega gengar post is so wrong, it's good in ubers for the same reason on why it's broken in Ou and that's for its support capabilities. Protect exists for a reason yknow and thanks to the massive rise in Lugia, it definitely has a solid placement in ubers when played properly.
I haven't seen many MegaKhan but it is actually pretty good:
+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 357-420 (70.8 - 83.3%)
+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lugia: 336-396 (80.7 - 95.1%)
+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Groudon: 303-357 (75 - 88.3%)
+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Power-Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arceus-Rock: 180-213 (40.5 - 47.9%)
Coming close to OHKO'ing (after SR and a layer of Spikes) some of the premier physical walls of Ubers is no small feat, and even Rock Arceus is 2HKO'ed by PuP (factoring in the boosts MegaKhan gets as Arceus switches in). And Rock Arceus doesn't always run a physically defensive set.
As for revenging it:
+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyogre: 306-360 (89.7 - 105.5%)
+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Palkia: 280-330 (87.2 - 102.8%)
+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 153-180 (47.3 - 55.7%)
Terrakion does a decent job of revenging it (Justified nabs it a boost if it takes a Sucker Punch and then it can proceed to shit all over your team with a +1 Close Combat), but Scarf Kyogre and Scarf Palkia all fall in front of a Sucker Punch.
The problem I see is setting up; if a Ghost-type switches in on the predicted PuP it will get +1 at most (assuming it has not mega-evolved yet); fortunately for it, the list of common Ghost-types in ubers pretty much amounts to Ghost Arceus and the two Giratinas, and even those are falling in usage (Ghost Arceus faces competition from other Arceus formes, and the Giratinas are mauled by Xerneas).
It feels sort of like Shell Smash Omastar from last generation; hard to set up, but when it does, it OHKOes most of the metagame after hazards and is difficult to revenge.
+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 357-420 (70.8 - 83.3%)
+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lugia: 336-396 (80.7 - 95.1%)
+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Groudon: 303-357 (75 - 88.3%)
+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Power-Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arceus-Rock: 180-213 (40.5 - 47.9%)
Coming close to OHKO'ing (after SR and a layer of Spikes) some of the premier physical walls of Ubers is no small feat, and even Rock Arceus is 2HKO'ed by PuP (factoring in the boosts MegaKhan gets as Arceus switches in). And Rock Arceus doesn't always run a physically defensive set.
As for revenging it:
+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyogre: 306-360 (89.7 - 105.5%)
+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Palkia: 280-330 (87.2 - 102.8%)
+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 153-180 (47.3 - 55.7%)
Terrakion does a decent job of revenging it (Justified nabs it a boost if it takes a Sucker Punch and then it can proceed to shit all over your team with a +1 Close Combat), but Scarf Kyogre and Scarf Palkia all fall in front of a Sucker Punch.
The problem I see is setting up; if a Ghost-type switches in on the predicted PuP it will get +1 at most (assuming it has not mega-evolved yet); fortunately for it, the list of common Ghost-types in ubers pretty much amounts to Ghost Arceus and the two Giratinas, and even those are falling in usage (Ghost Arceus faces competition from other Arceus formes, and the Giratinas are mauled by Xerneas).
It feels sort of like Shell Smash Omastar from last generation; hard to set up, but when it does, it OHKOes most of the metagame after hazards and is difficult to revenge.
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