Hidden Power Legends IV/nature combinations

[Little Green Yoda]

I agree that Shoddy should continue being a "simulator" without messing with all the super-fine details like impossible IVs for all the reasons Raikou listed. Like it has been said, getting all the necessary event information and such to make a perfect replica of what's possible ingame is an arduous task that will likely never be completed. So why attempt to be a half-assed version of WiFi when people are perfectly fine with Shoddy being a simulator with ideal conditions? I see no reason why Shoddy and WiFi can't co-exist at both ends of the spectrum with its differences intact.

As for the complexity for the end-user, how are you going to implement it? Will everybody have to choose from a long list of IV/nature combinations? Or will there be one IV spread that's chosen for each Hidden Power?

For the record, I personally don't have anything against this IV restriction feature. I just think that the time could be better spent on other things and the change (not necessarily good change since I'm sure a number of people like their ideal conditions offered by the simulator) will cause more drama and scrutiny of Shoddy and its administration.

 

[XtrEEmMaShEEn3k2]

I don't mind this change, not like a 1-2 difference in IV is going to make a difference.

I disagree with not revealing the formula however. OMFG WE MUST PROTECT THE POKEMON ONLINE ECONOMY, THEREFORE, YOU MUST TAKE OUR WORD THAT WE GOT THIS FORMULA RIGHT WITHOUT ASKING ANY QUESTIONS!

It simply isn't fair.

 

[the_artic_one]

It's not fair to breeders to completely destroy their part of the game just because you're curious.

 

[cim]

Yeah, I'm not completely satisfied with all of the data being kept secret. Secret things bad. Openness good. But I'll stop whining for a little while, or at least long enough until I can kick my server into "working" mode.

I was actually planning on learning Java this fall primarily to help out with basic Shoddy Battle stuff. I have a (very) rudimentary knowledge of code in general/computer science, and... (more off topic ness)

I agree with Raikou and Scrubs in terms of how I see Shoddy, but then again it's not mine to see except if I run a server... which doesn't look like its happening because my modem/router combination thingy has port forwarding "locked unless you pay us $10 more a month to unlock controlling your own firewall". Crazy huh?

EDIT: It's not because "we're curious", it's about accountability. We don't want stuff imposed on us if we don't know how it works. Since through X-Act i have proof that the basic concept of a limited number of combinations does indeed exists, I'm satisfied enough to not go apeshit, though I wish there was another way so that we could ALL learn about Pokémon without destroying breeding as we know it.

 

[Cathy]

As for the complexity for the end-user, how are you going to implement it?

By the way, this has actually been live for around ten hours now. You can check it out yourself.

 

[Raikou]

I don't mind this change, not like a 1-2 difference in IV is going to make a difference.

I disagree with not revealing the formula however. OMFG WE MUST PROTECT THE POKEMON ONLINE ECONOMY, THEREFORE, YOU MUST TAKE OUR WORD THAT WE GOT THIS FORMULA RIGHT WITHOUT ASKING ANY QUESTIONS!

It simply isn't fair.

Then figure it out yourself like many of us already have, they don't need to spoon feed you information.

 

[EFF]

I don't mind this change, not like a 1-2 difference in IV is going to make a difference.

So then, why implement it at all?

I agree that I don't want it easier to make fakes, and if you can't make the change without revealing code, and the change won't make a big difference, its not really worth it, is it? Props to the high caliber code-crunchers who have figured out exactly how pass a fake by the detection system, and double-props for having the decency to keep it under-wraps. If you're going to make the change, you should definitely include some accountability, but at the same time, if you're going to make the change, it should be worth the repercussions, which this clearly is not.

 

[RaikouLover]

I'm highly upset because I used AAs spreads posted on this thread, yet I cannot battle with them because it still says its a problem. Seriously though, is it THAT serious? Implementing this is pointless IMO, as some people play shoddy just so that they don't have to be constrained by in-game things like breeding, etc.

 

[Cathy]

Some of AA's suggestions might only work for Advance legendaries. DP legendaries are a bit more restricted.

if you can't make the change without revealing code

All of Shoddy Battle's sources are publicly available. That philosophy is cleared stated on the web site.


The only reason that this seems strange is that we are doing it now rather than having had it all along. But the only reason we didn't have it all along is that this information was not made public. This is really the same as the max for each IV being 31 rather than, say, 30. If we had 30 max IVs in place all these months then a change to 31 would be a shock, but it would still be correct. It is not my fault that this crucial mechanics information was obscured until now. I would be just as annoyed if it had been told to everybody that the IV max was 32 in order to detect hackers who used 32 IVs, but it would still be correct to change the max to 31 when we found out.

 

[Aki]

I'm not even getting how this works.

On my SS team, i loaded up by Sassy Regirock.
"Sorry, you need to change one of your IV's"

What? How does that work?
It is possible to get a 31/31/31/31/31/31 Sassy Regirock, But it'd take forever. So why the hell did it do that? =\

 

[the_artic_one]

No, it's actually not possible, that was the entire point of this.

 

[Aki]

How is it not possible then?

 

[the_artic_one]

Read X-Act's post on page 2, he explains it. The game will not allow you to catch such a pokemon.

 

[Aki]

As said by the poster after the next, how do you determine what combinations are legal?

 

[Tangerine]

The thing is, a nice chunk of people who play on WiFi with legendaries will hack their IVs to all 31s anyway, (and likely get away with it, even in Nintendo sanctioned tournies) so why bother enforcing this rule here? Does it really need to mimic realism for a few minuscule changes that will barely change the game anyway? What are we trying to emulate here, an "idealized WiFi where no one will hack?"

It just seems like more trouble to go through when you use certain legends in the team building window in my opinion.

 

[c l e a r]

Tang makes a point, hell, back in Netbattle, we used Metal Sound, BP Zapdos no problem with HP Ice. =/ If anything, it was FUN.

Wishbliss was there too, didn't cause anything.

And yeah, as far as I'm concerned, as a fellow hacker, if it is within the legal boundaries, it's as fair as it will get. You can't stop people from hacking.

 

[KoA]

Ok, looking past all the fighting and whining about not revealing info, I actually find the subject matter itself interesting.

I didn't know the game did this kind of stuff to restrict things. I've always been highly curious about what PIDs and seeds and such were and how the game uses them, but never knew much about them at all aside from the vague little snippets I picked up in reading random threads.

I've been interested in knowing how the games seed so I can know what to and what not to expect in my SR/Breeding exploits in Emerald and D/P. Even though I'll probably get a "lol shut up and figure it out yourself" answer, I feel as though a basic explanations on the terms themselves and such would help me with starting off. ;_;


Sorry if I sidetracked a bit, so I'll keep this post ontopic by stating that I really don't think it makes sense implementing ingame restrictions on Shoddy. The main reason many people use it in the first place is because they want to get away from Wifi and ingame in general and just jump right into the battles. I really don't see how tweaking the IVs by one point will matter much anyway and it just seems like it would deter some people away, imo.


Those are my quips on the matter.

 

[Raikou]

I've been interested in knowing how the games seed so I can know what to and what not to expect in my SR/Breeding exploits in Emerald and D/P. Even though I'll probably get a "lol shut up and figure it out yourself" answer, I feel as though a basic explanations on the terms themselves and such would help me with starting off. ;_;

You can expect the same thing whether you know about it or not. Nothing you can do in game or with AR can affect it, so for all intents and purposes knowing about it does nothing to help you.

 

[KoA]

Well I figured that but just the system itself was interesting to me. Though people would want this info secret for good reason, I'd know why exactly I was getting some certain combination over another on a certain pokemon and whatnot.

I suck at explaining things but I guess I just like the mechanics behind things, even despite my generally shitty knowledge of coding and programming.

 

[QibingZero]

It approaches ridiculous that people would be upset over the fact shoddy is trying to be as close to the original game as possible. Really, is that so wrong?

I find it very hard to imagine a scenario wherein I wouldn't take the phrase 'dangerous information' with a grain of salt. It's a great idea to be skeptical when the phrase is used for political reasons, and so you can imagine where it should stand in regards to information gathered by hacking a pokemon ROM. And please, let's not try to make this into a plea for breeders when it's not. Nearly everything in the wi-fi 'economy' is cloned anyhow - it's not as if a hacked pokemon made to look 100% legit is going to ruin everything (while we're at it, let's not continue to ignore the possibility of this having already happened). Hell, personally I have some extremely good pokemon I've legitimately bred that have never been circulated, and that fact alone gives me more pride as a breeder than everyone in the community wanting, obtaining, and using a copy of one of them ever could.

I've gladly stayed my hands from discussions over cloning and hacking in the past, noting the volatile attitude some members here take toward these things, but this is just too much. The arrogance is stifling.

 

[c l e a r]

you know, I respect the whole breeding community thing as this is what they do for fun. But on the other hand, i really hate this whole arrogance with shoddy trying to match the real game. It is meant to play event stuff and see what they can actually do.

As we can see, Wobbuffet with Tickle is broken beyond belief in OU. But other stuff like Darkrai, other useful XD moves, HP on Legendaries are not broken. In fact, if it weren't for stuff like HP Ice on Zapdos, it cannot match up with higher tier stuff like chomp, it's not really balance, but it still has that fairness that all Pokemon can have 31 IVs.

Can we just turn this topic around and ban Wobbuffet? It's a perfect solution.

 

[X-Act]

Yeah, I'm not completely satisfied with all of the data being kept secret. Secret things bad. Openness good. But I'll stop whining for a little while, or at least long enough until I can kick my server into "working" mode.

This information is not secret. You can just look at the Shoddybattle code and see exactly how it works. How is that 'secret'?

EDIT: Also, I don't like how you call the Shoddybattle persons as a 'random group of people who impose stuff on us without proof'. You clearly don't know that Shoddybattle is an open-source program. Whatever they do, you can just view the source code and post in their forums about it if you don't like it. I hardly call that 'imposing stuff on us'! You need to cut some slack on them, and realise that, if it weren't for Shoddybattle, you'd still not be able to play online competitive Pokemon. Show some respect.

 

[merubin]

But on the other hand, i really hate this whole arrogance with shoddy trying to match the real game. It is meant to play event stuff and see what they can actually do.

GRAAAH THE ARROGANCE OF A SIMULATOR PROGRAMMER PROGRAMMING HIS SIMULATOR TO ACCURATELY SIMULATE SOMETHING.

Some people have some seriously messed-up senses of entitlement about this.

 

[Aki]

The implimentation of this on shoddy was such a waste of time... We got by without this before, we still can get by without it. What is the point of this? All it means is that we don't get certain hidden powers without drawbacks. This is a simulator; not the real thing. Sure, a simulator is ment to simulate, but we're not making Pokemon Internet: Closer to the real thing that the game itself! Next we're gonna be breeding them online...=S

 

[CardsOfTheHeart]

This is a simulator; not the real thing. Sure, a simulator is ment to simulate, but we're not making Pokemon Internet: Closer to the real thing that the game itself! Next we're gonna be breeding them online...=S

But isn't accuracy the number one priority of a simulator? If you're simulating something, wouldn't you want the simulation to be as accurate as possible?