Honchkrow (Gen 4, full revamp)

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JabbaTheGriffin

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Right now I'm more concerned about content, I haven't swept through looking for grammar problems yet so don't do that yet. If you could just look at the team options section and see if I'm missing anything. This is my first Team Options write up and I wasn't exactly too great with it imo.

Some notable things: Dropped Nasty Plot, choiced sets and Lead set...pretty much it.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/honchkrow

[SET]
name: Life Orb Mob Boss
move 1: Drill Peck
move 2: Sucker Punch
move 3: Superpower
move 4: Night Slash / Pursuit
item: Life Orb
ability: Super Luck
nature: Adamant
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Honchkrow is one of the premier physical attackers and wall breakers in all of UU, sporting an impressive 125 base Attack and amazing type coverage. While base 71 Speed is actually quite unimpressive, Honchkrow makes up for this by packing some priority heat in the form of STAB Sucker Punch. While this in turn may lead the Honchkrow user into some extremely tricky Sucker Punch guessing games, more often than not it limits your opponent's ways in which they can deal with Honchkrow. Flying and Dark provide Honchkrow with almost unresisted type coverage in UU. The only common Pokemon in UU that resist the combination are Registeel and Steelix, both of which take heaps of damage from Life Orb Superpower.</p>

<p>Night Slash is the preferred option over Pursuit because dropping Night Slash makes Honchkrow's job of breaking down the opponent's defenses a much more difficult task. While you may be able to catch a switching Chansey or Mismagius, it hardly seems worth it over Night Slash, which can provide surefire heavy damage against Psychics such as Slowbro who threatens to Thunder Wave you and, with its 25% critical hit rate, can often give you a "Plan B" against several walls such as Milotic and Spiritomb. The simple fact is that, given the difficulty at which Honchkrow is effectively walled, you're often much better hitting your opponent's switch-in than you are damaging what they're switching out. Though if it's important for your team to Pursuit a defensive threat that Honchkrow scares off, it is a viable choice over Night Slash. Just be warned that you'll eventually begin to miss Night Slash</p>

<p>Super Luck is listed as the ability of choice over Insomnia for a few simple reasons. First of all, Night Slash with a 25% critical hit rate is almost too good to pass up, while the increase to 12.5% on the other attacks is also welcome. Secondly, sleep moves are not all too common in UU. While Venusaur and Roserade often carry Sleep Powder, switching Honchkrow in on either one of these Pokemon is not recommended. Both can hit Honchkrow with a powerful STAB Sludge Bomb and even their resisted Grass moves combined with Stealth Rock damage can put a hurting on Honchkrow that will essentially leave it crippled for the remainder of the match. So it becomes quite clear that the benefit from running Super Luck far outweighs any benefit Insomnia could potentially provide.</p>

<p>As mentioned above, Honchkrow does most of its own work, though he is met with the same problem that Mixmence has in OU: he is essentially running on a timer. The best way to alleviate this problem is by running a Rapid Spinner which can easily keep Stealth Rock off the field. In UU this pretty much amounts to Hitmontop or Donphan. Honchkrow also loves entry hazard support as it makes almost anything hard-pressed to switch in and take two hits of a Honchkrow onslaught. This makes Donphan, who learns Stealth Rock, stand above Hitmontop as Honchkrow's preferred partner in crime.</p>

[SET]
name: Scarf Honchkrow
move 1: Drill Peck
move 2: Night Slash
move 3: Pursuit
move 4: Superpower
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Super Luck
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Honchkrow donning a pretty scarf plays a much different role than a bare necked Honchkrow. Honchkrow surprisingly maintains its ability to sweep with Choice Scarf instead of Life Orb, however how you go about doing so is much different. The moveset is essentially the same, however Sucker Punch is no longer needed which opens up room for both Night Slash and Pursuit to be run on the same set. Early on in the match you should be looking for opportunities to nab free guaranteed kills with Pursuit on Pokemon such as Mismagius. Your main goal is to open yourself up for a late game spree with either Drill Peck or Night Slash</p>

<p>Adamant is the recommended option because of how little there is between the 361 you sit at with Adamant and the 397 provided by Jolly, however there are some notable Pokemon that may make it worth running Jolly. First of all, Adamant Scarf brings you to 361, which is a tie with Ambipom. Plus Speed Sceptile and Dugtrio are the biggest names past that mark, both at 372. If you feel these Pokemon are important for Honchkrow to outspeed, then Jolly is the clear choice. With Jolly you're best off using a spread of 56HP/252Atk/200Spe.</p>

<p>Like any Choice set in comparison to a Life Orb set, this requires much more support. Throwing around Scarfed Superpowers isn't exactly recommended and the loss of power from the lack of Life Orb means that the dent you put into Steelix and Registeel isn't really anything that can't be buffed out. Therefore, you definitely want the support of a Pokemon that can consistently switch into the two of those and threaten them away while also being able to get rid of Stealth Rock that they probably laid down while you were switching. So this set clearly likes the partnership of Hitmontop and Donphan much more than the last. Also you'll probably want a Pokemon that can catch Steelix and Registeel off guard since constantly forcing them out isn't really getting closer to KOing them, unless you're confident enough to use Superpower every time you bring Honch in. Something like Choice Band Kangaskhan can catch both with a Hammer Arm or an Earthquake or you could even go as far as running PerishTrap Mismagius.</p>

[TEAM OPTIONS]

<p>Besides what was mentioned above, Honchkrow absolutely loves entry hazards. Stealth Rock and Spikes go a long way in helping Honchkrow. A few Pokemon, such as Moltres and, most notably, Milotic can weather a Honchkrow storm as long as the field is devoid of entry hazards. Moltres can be easily dealt with by getting Stealth Rock down as early as possible. Milotic on the other hand, requires spikes to beat. This makes Roserade a great teammate for Honchkrow, being able to come in on any Milotic set and lay down Spikes with ease.</p>

<p>If running both Spikes and Stealth Rock, making sure they don't get spun off the field by a hyperactive Donphan may be a good investment. In UU, there are several viable spinblockers. Mismagius is your best bet for an offensive spinblocker, being able to block spin and at the same time set up offensively, while taking advantage of the entry hazards. It can also go a more defensive route with Will-O-Wisp and Pain Split. Rotom can also be an offensive spinblocker by running either Choice Scarf or Subcharge and it can be defensive with a Rest/Sleep Talk set.</p>

[OTHER OPTIONS]

<p>Honchkrow has access to Nasty Plot, a fairly decent 105 base Special Attack and a good Special movepool that includes Dark Pulse and Heat Wave. However, Honchkrow is definitely not built to be a setup Pokemon. It doesn't even serve as a good lure for Steelix, since any intelligent player knows that when Honchkrow plots something nasty, a wave of heat is sure to follow. All you end up doing is making it even easier for Milotic to wall you. You may be able to catch a Donphan here and there with a Plot Dark Pulse, but in the long run, you're definitely better off recklessly using Honchkrow's physical movepool.</p>

[EVs]

<p>Honchkrow is one of the easiest Pokemon in the game to EV. You never want anything other than 4/252/252 no matter what set you're running. Unless you fall prey to a fit of insanity and decide you want to run a defensive Roost Honchkrow, you shouldn't deviate from those EVs, except in the case of Jolly Scarf, as explained above.</p>

[OPINION]

<p>Honchkrow is definitely a scary Pokemon to see come out of your opponent's Pokeball, especially if you're running stall, although the addition of Donphan to the tier alleviated the problem a bit. Offensive teams will usually have to sacrifice something to the Boss, but luckily for them, Honchkrow has a lot of trouble switching into anything short of Choiced Earthquake. Honchkrow is definitely a good addition to a balanced team that makes use of entry hazards while having one or two offensive Pokemon to take advantage of the hazards.</p>

<p>One of the big questions surrounding Honchkrow is "Why not use Absol?" Absol has access to Swords Dance and takes neutral damage from Stealth Rock, which on the surface makes it seem like Absol is clearly the better choice for Physical Dark Sweeper. However, Honchkrow has a few distinct advantages that go a long way in making it generally superior to Absol. First, the same thing that makes it Stealth Rock weak, its Flying type, also grants it an Immunity to Earthquake, makes it neutral to Bug and above all, makes it neutral to Fighting. With all the Fighting Priority flying around in the form of Vacuum Wave and Mach Punch, it helps to not take Super Effective damage from Fighting. Also in regards to the Fighting type, Honchkrow also packs a STAB Drill Peck to deal with those pesky ruffians. Absol's best way of dealing with defensive fighters such as Hitmontop and Hariyama is the base 70 Psycho Cut, which really doesn't cut it.</p>

[COUNTERS]

<p>Countering Honchkrow is a tricky endeavor. Glancing over the most used Pokemon in the Underused metagame, it becomes clear that not too much can safely switch into Honchkrow. Milotic is probably your best bet, considering it beats Honchkrow every time barring a critical hit. Donphan can also come in on any attack and threaten it out with a strong Ice Shard or Stone Edge. However, with a lack of recovery that plagues most Honchkrow counters, Donphan can't do that job forever. Steelix is the better Steel type for taking on Honchkrow, considering a Life Orb Superpower does a lot less to Steelix and his whopping Base 200 Defense than it does to Registeel. Regirock, for the same reason as Steelix, can handle Honchkrow. However the lack of a Dark resist makes switching into Night Slashes and their 25% critical hit rate a riskier endeavor. Your main goal in dealing with Honchkrow is to get Stealth Rock up right away and do your best to keep it up and hope you can get it down with Life Orb recoil. Also the surprise Substitute on a faster Pokmon can really catch a Sucker Punching Honchkrow off guard.</p>
 
Night Slash is already 25% crit, without Super Luck. Super Luck brings it up to 37.5%. Also Razor Claw would be an option for Honchkrow to hold instead of Life Orb, making the critical strikes just that more prevalent, up to 25% on the normal attacks and a whopping 50% on Night Slash.
 

supermarth64

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Hmm, are you sure the Lead and CB sets needed to be axed? In theory, Honchkrow makes a good lead with Insomnia, Pursuit/Sucker Punch/SuperPower/(NightSlash/Drill Peck) and a Focus Sash, beating Uxie, Roserade and Yanmega consistenly.

Oh and this set I just saw in a different Krow revamp (lol) looked promising:
[SET]
name: Uber leadkrow
move 1: Sucker Punch
move 2: Heat Wave/ Drill Peck
move 3: Night Slash
move 4: Superpower
item: Focus Sash
ability: Insomnia
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Att / 236 SpD /48 SpA

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Although it is not a hugely useful pokemon in the OU tier, Honchkrow can serve as effective anti-lead in the Uber metagame. Thanks to his Insomnia ability, Honchkrow can take Dark Voids in his stride while being able to OHKO Darkrai leads, as well as Scizor leads and Focus Sash Deoxy A leads with a Night Slash/Sucker Punch combination.</p>

<p>Although Honchkrow seems to be limited to an anti-lead,if kept in full health can proof deadly late game able to OHKO Mew, Mewtwo,Latios, Latias and is able to 2HKO nearly the entire tier with Sucker Punch/Superpower/Night Slash and Stealth Rock damage. A Rapid Spinner and prediction (and sometimes luck) is needed to do this though especially with Pokemon with healing moves such as, Lugia etc.</p>

<p>The ev spread is pretty straight forward giving Honchkrow strong physical power and enough SpA to deal with Scizor and Forretress.The SpD evs allow Honchkrow to survive two 0 SpA Lugia Ice beams without Stealth Rock damage.</p>

<p>Now this is where the good news ends, once Honchkrows sash is broken it's basically dead and can be countered by nearly every pokemon in the Uber tier ,barring Wobbufet and Wynaut. Rayquaza gets a special mention as do most other priorty move users as they can outspeed Honchy's Sucker Punches nulifying them.</p>
Adding Pursuit wouldnt be too bad.
 

JabbaTheGriffin

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It's just the regular set with Focus Sash instead of Life Orb which means it isn't hurting anything really

Theorymon is the silly UU in Uber guy I'll talk to him and if he feels Honchkrow lead is anything to write home about then I'll add it, but it doesn't look like much more than a "Hey you can't sleep me!" gimmick

And LN tested Leadkrow in UU and told me it was complete trash so I trust his opinion.
 

Legacy Raider

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I'm not too sure about the dropping of the NP set, since Honchkrow can do special attacking well. It can be argued that Flail Gyarados isn't as effective as a LO DD version or used nearly as much, but it still gets a mention in the analysis because it is a competitively viable set to run. While NP Krow can't touch Milotic the same as the standard physical one, it does do a decent chunk to Steelix, Regirock, Donphan, and Registeel, all of whom are often used as checks for it on teams that don't have Milotic. Special versions Krow were used a reasonable amount judging from the statistics:

Code:
| Honchkrow  | Move         | Heat Wave        |    38.9 |
| Honchkrow  | Move         | Dark Pulse       |    11.8 |
I think you should keep the Nasty Plot set in the analysis; I liked the NP/Dark Pulse/Heat Wave/Superpower set that was in the old analysis, so just updating that for the new tier and adding team options would be good. As for the 'Lead' set, a paragraph mentioning its utility as a lead with Focus Sash and Insomnia in the comments for the first set should be enough.

Almost all analyses have a single 'Choice' set, and I think it would be a good idea to have Choice Band slashed next to Scarf in the second set. You've said in the counters section:-

"Milotic is probably your best bet, considering it beats Honchkrow every time barring a critical hit. Donphan can also come in on any attack and threaten it out with a strong Ice Shard or Stone Edge."

However, a Choice Band set can beat both Milotic and attack invested Donphan with minimal prediction:

CB Drill Peck vs 252/252+ Milotic: (42.89% - 51.02%)
That's a 96.38% chance to 2HKO with SR, and 46.42% chance to 2HKO with SR+Leftovers against the most physically defensive Milotic possible.

CB Drill Peck vs 252/0 Donphan: (47.14% - 55.73%)
73.90% chance to 2HKO with SR+Leftovers.

That's the reason a CB set is run - to foil the 'common' set's counters. Both Milotic and Donphan don't fear anything but a crit from LO Honchkrow, but CB Honchkrow can destroy both. Renaming the second set 'Choice', slashing in CB next to scarf, and dedicating a paragraph explaining these above calculations against the common set's best counters is a good idea.

Expanding a bit on the teammates for the first set would be great. You've said that Honchkrow appreciates entry hazards support and spin support, but that could be said about almost any sweeper. Honchkrow is one of the very top threats in UU, so giving the reader some specific examples of teammates that work well with it isn't a wasted effort. For example, Torterra can come into Regirock, Registeel, Steelix, and Donphan lacking Ice Shard with great ease - he doesn't mind Thunder Wave, Iron Head, Rock Slide, Stone Edge, or Gyro Ball, and can use most of Honchkrow's checks as a free chance to Rock Polish. Leafeon can come into most of these Pokemon just as easily, and it can work the other way around as well with Leafeon passing SDs to Honchkrow and letting it actually sweep instead of just break walls. I'm sure there are other examples of Pokemon that can take advantage of the threat Honchkrow poses to the opposing team, these are just the examples that came to me off the top of my head.

In the Scarf set's comments, I think a spread of 252 Atk/56 Def/200 Spe would be better to run with Jolly than the 56HP/252Atk/200Spe (btw Spe > Spd) you've recommended. Investing in Honchkrow's pitiful base 52 Defenses gives it a lot more bulk than investing in its decent base 100 HP would. For example, by investing the spare EVs into Defense, you take approximately 5.6% less damage from Donphan's Ice Shard than you would if those EVs were in HP.

JabbaTheGriffin said:
However, Honchkrow has a few distinct advantages that go a long way in making it generally superior to Absol. First, the same thing that makes it Stealth Rock weak, its Flying type, also grants it an Immunity to Earthquake, makes it neutral to Bug and above all, makes it neutral to Fighting. With all the Fighting Priority flying around in the form of Vacuum Wave and Mach Punch, it helps to not take Super Effective damage from Fighting. Also in regards to the Fighting type, Honchkrow also packs a STAB Drill Peck to deal with those pesky ruffians. Absol's best way of dealing with defensive fighters such as Hitmontop and Hariyama is the base 70 Psycho Cut, which really doesn't cut it.
It might also be worth noting that Spikes are extremely common in UU, and though Honchkrow might be taking twice as much damage from SR as Absol, chances are Absol will actually take more entry hazard damage in total from Spikes and SR combined, while Honchkrow is immune to them.

And adding a couple more Pokemon into the counters section would help bulk up the analysis as well. I'm thinking of Weezing, Omastar, and Luxray, all three of which can check Krow quite well.

Overall, what you've got here is of excellent quality. We just need to add a bit more to it to make the analysis comprehensive.
 
No mention of Drapion in the Counters section? It should be as it has a few notable advantages over its other counters, namely immunity to crit hax and being able to outrun with minimal investment whilst hitting back hard with either Poison Jab, Rock Slide or Ice Fang. Knock Off weakens it considerably by knocking off its Life Orb, whilst Whirlwind means that Honchkrow cannot safely switch out willy-nilly with SR on the field.

I also agree with LR in that the Counters section does need expanding a bit, as you're really overselling the lack of counters point. All three of the Pokemon he mentioned are capable of taking a hit or two and crippling or hitting Honchkrow very hard.

I wouldn't drop the NP set so easily either if I were you, given that it is the more efficient stallbreaker set in this current environment. A +2 LO Dark Pulse comfortably 2HKOs standard stall Milotic through Haze, and has an even better hax probability than Night Slash IIRC, taking into account both flinch and crit chance.
 

JabbaTheGriffin

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Yeah counters section is lacking i'll fix that up.

I dropped NP because i tested it and it was absolute ass. I'm willing to try out some kind of mixed set with Nasty Plot as an option but I really don't have high hopes for it...
 

Seven Deadly Sins

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Mixed NP with Superpower for Chansey seems pretty solid but the 71 speed is extremely lacking. I'd OO it with some heavy para support, as I see it ripping huge holes in stall but losing hard against offense.

313 Atk vs 109 Def & 641 HP (120 Base Power): 642 - 756 (100.16% - 117.94%)

295 Atk vs 109 Def & 641 HP (120 Base Power): 604 - 712 (94.23% - 111.08%)

Honch needs to run something stupid like 108 Attack to guarantee the OHKO against 0/252 Calm Chansey, but only 36 to guarantee it with SR + Leftovers.
 
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