Inheritance [Prime Council Elected]

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

To be fair, Diggersby has a maximum attack of 464 in STABmons versus Ursaring which has the next highest attack for a Normal type at 394 which is a significant difference. Landorus-T has a maximum attack of 427 versus 416 for Archeops, 405 for Salamence, and 403 for Dragonite, so there isn't a big drop-off from Landorus-T to other potential abusers of Gale Wings. If Landorus-T were to be banned, people would just take the next man up approach.

You're right. Salamence only have a little less Attack than Landorus T but is faster and has more Special Attack. Because of this, I don't see any point of banning Landorus T when Salamence will be the next A+ or even S rank candidate because it can run Gale Wings and Protean set similar to Landorus T (and it can possibly perform better than Landorus T because of higher Speed and Special Attack). The only drawback Salamence has that Landorus T don't is Stealth Rock weak. Maybe someone should show me a calc that Landorus T can 1HKO but Salmence can only 2HKO?

 

[Throbulator36]

You're right. Salamence only have a little less Attack than Landorus T but is faster and has more Special Attack. Because of this, I don't see any point of banning Landorus T when Salamence will be the next A+ or even S rank candidate because it can run Gale Wings and Protean set similar to Landorus T (and it can possibly perform better than Landorus T because of higher Speed and Special Attack). The only drawback Salamence has that Landorus T don't is Stealth Rock weak. Maybe someone should show me a calc that Landorus T can 1HKO 2HKO

There's one thing that makes landorus clearly better than mence and that is stab earthquake on the aerilate set(making it less predictable) also the non protean variants are immune to thunder wave where relevant.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

well...i hate to be the white knight in this, but...

i don't see how him swearing in his arguments gears you on how you speak to someone. especially when they aren't personal attacks or anything. if anything, id criticize you and your arguments on this post. if you want him to mature, then why are you insulting his lack of maturity and his skill level? (not implying he/she is immature). Another thing to note, is that people are entitled to their opinions, no matter how off they may be. (again, not implying anything). honestly, you say for him to "refrain from posting here until you mature" but all i see, is you "pointing your finger at the tattle tale", sorry.

btw, he said he didn't care about how he worded it, not the arguments themselves.

I was trying to point out that he's mostly swearing instead of making arguments, wasting everybodies time

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

it was suspected once, mainly due to it being outclassed by archeops iirc.

Actually it got suspected two times. First is Keldeo ban (there was no council yet in this suspect). Second is Archeops and Blazikenite ban. Both passed.

People will always complain about birdspam (it has been since the beginning of Inheritance when people play through Custom Games), but remember that if Landorus T got banned, there will be Salamence who will replace it (and its not really outclassed by Landorus T because it only has a little difference in Attack but has higher Speed and Special Attack). So I don't know if banning Landorus T will solve the birdspam problem (highly doubt it).

 

[Amaluna]

Here are some sets I found. Feedback and suggestions are appreciated;

Inherits from Flygon.

Inherits from Mega Rayquaza.

Inherits from Aurorus.

Inherits from Volbeat. Was meant for a Rain team.

Inherits from Serperior.

Inherits from Clawitzer.

 

[DarkeKnight]

Stuff

Why Pyroar in particular? Because of it's speed? Porygon-Z has a much larger damage output but lesser speed. Meloetta has slightly lower Sp. Atk than Porygon-Z but is more bulkier.

Also, while the Kyurem set is nice in theory, you're better off inheriting from Mega Glalie. I used it for a while and there's pretty much no point in running Outrage. Frustration does more than Outrage thanks to Refrigerate. Frustration hits dragons SE which is the only thing Outrage can boast. Plus by inheriting from Glalie, you get access to Ice Shard, priority which is very much needed. And to be entirely honest, the only thing you're going to be clicking is Frustration unless you're against a steel type, in which case you'll use EQ. Stone Edge doesn't really have a lot of usefulness on that set.

 

[Fix up]

Deoxys-Defense @ Red Card
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Skill Swap
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Taunt

normal deo-d with skill swap is a good suicide lead; skill swap circumvents magic bounce and cripples a lot of the tier until they switch out

Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Shadow Claw
- Earthquake
- Power-Up Punch

yes these moves are legal

 

[Tarontos]

I assume dual stabs DarkeKnight for pyroar

 

[InfernapeTropius11]

Zorlond I disagree. I believe Suicune is the most versatile physical wall in Inheritance. With access to at least 3 great sets from Alomomola, Quagsire, and Masquerain, it truly is an excellent and diverse physical wall that's amazing in halting sweeps, hence why some people believe it should get banned. I don't think it should be banned however, because there is such a power creep in inheritance that you just need to bring a wallbreaker, such as Electivire, or a Thunderbolt user (I use Competitive Infernape, although any special attacker could abuse Competitive and Wigglytuff's wide movepool).

Does anyone even inherit from the same Pokemon multiple times on their team? I don't see the point in having an Inheritance clause. If it is broken to inherit from something, then inheriting from it should be banned altogether. If inheriting from a Pokemon is not broken, then I don't see the problem inheriting from it 6 times if you want to.

Basically for the same reason Ability Clause was implemented in BH. Most teams only carry 1-2 checks/counters to a certain playstyle that can perhaps wall up to 3 Pokemon, but if you still have 3 Pokemon left with that abusable ability, you can simply overpower the opposing team. I actually think Protean is more abusable than Gale Wings tbh, since any Rock type or Flash Fire Steel or Electric type walls it. Protean however is unpredictable and has so many moves you can run. I believe an Ability Clause would be good, for basically the same reasons it was implemented in BH. The ability on its own may not be broken, but if you run a ton of them to overpower its checks and counters, then it can become broken.

You don't care? Why should we care about your arguments if you don't? Your opinion holds little to no merit if you refuse to change it. You might just be a bad inheritance player. It doesn't matter if we have 15 000 people complaining about Inheritance, they all have to have a COIL rating higher than 2700. If you don't disagree with yourself, after being proven wrong by multiple people and only being supported by inexperienced players then you need to refrain from posting here until you mature.




Lol your team has nothing for the ONLY S ranked pokemon in the tier? Seems like a great idea. Donor clause is debatable, it's mostly fine right now.

You want us to not insult you or not have any harsh words for you yet you refuse to stop swearing in you arguments.

I hate to have to say this to anybody, but you are literally driving me insane. You are the LAST person I expect to be criticizing anybody on their maturity level. And your first point applies to yourself! You REFUSE to even TRY to play around Gothitelle (btw Cresselia can inherit U-Turn/Heal Bell/recovery from Mew FYI) and thus you lose to it. You then come on here and say you can't beat it, so it should be banned. You CAN beat it, it may be difficult but it is simply another top tier threat that needs to be played around. I know it threatens stall, but a well built stall team should be able to play around it (for example, run a switching move on something Gothitelle weak, then use a Pursuit user). You also did not even understand Kasumi♥'s point that he/she knows his/her arguments aren't the most solid, but simply wishes for these Pokemon to be discussed. You have made a ton of shitty, immature, or just plain stupid posts in at least three threads I can think of off the top of my head (Metamons, Hidden Type, here), so if anybody should be taking a break to become mature, I believe it should be you. Sorry for being rude, but I'm fed up with your arrogance.

Why Pyroar in particular? Because of it's speed? Porygon-Z has a much larger damage output but lesser speed. Meloetta has slightly lower Sp. Atk than Porygon-Z but is more bulkier.

Also, while the Kyurem set is nice in theory, you're better off inheriting from Mega Glalie. I used it for a while and there's pretty much no point in running Outrage. Frustration does more than Outrage thanks to Refrigerate. Frustration hits dragons SE which is the only thing Outrage can boast. Plus by inheriting from Glalie, you get access to Ice Shard, priority which is very much needed. And to be entirely honest, the only thing you're going to be clicking is Frustration unless you're against a steel type, in which case you'll use EQ. Stone Edge doesn't really have a lot of usefulness on that set.

Pyroar is good simply because of STAB Boomburst and Fire Blast. I'm not saying its the best, but it can really abuse strong dual STABs with its great speed/special attack, as well as Levitate granting it an immunity to a type it is weak to, plus its always nice to use underrated Pokemon :) I agree that Mega Glalie is a better donor for Kyurem as well. Priority is by far superior as 95% of the time you just spam Frustration lol, and the rest of the time, hitting Gale Wings Lando-T is fun.

 

[OLD GREGG (im back baby)]

Here are some sets I found. Feedback and suggestions are appreciated;

Inherits from Flygon.

Inherits from Mega Rayquaza.

Inherits from Aurorus.

Inherits from Volbeat. Was meant for a Rain team.

Inherits from Serperior.

Inherits from Clawitzer.

Nice to see Pyroar with anything besides Moxie... Major fail on that one GF.
Also Mega Sceptile has good mixed attacking stats. A bit of a glass cannon though. I've been testing a set inherited from Goodra with Super Power, Power Whip, Draco Meteor, and Fire Blast. Excellent coverage but easily revenge killed due to typing and frailty.

 

[Snaquaza]

Kl4ng has been added to the Inheritance council! Congrats.
It now has six members, Adrian Marin, AnybodyAgrees, Kl4ng, Lcass4919, Snaquaza and yoman5.

If anyone is wondering, Kl4ng was added because he's both a great presence in this thread, leads intelligent discussion and knows a lot about the metagame. In addition he's a great battler, shown by his 26-0 rating on PS right now.

A tie of 3 Ban, 3 No Ban will be counted as a no ban.

 

[Theriouhh]

Ban Gale Wings and Suicune.

BAN FKIN GALE WINGS AND SUICUNE

 

[I like donkeys]

A tie of 3 Ban, 3 No Ban will be counted as a no ban.

What were you guys voting on exactly?

 

[Pikachuun]

What were you guys voting on exactly?

I believe that's just a general statement.

 

[Ghoul King]

for what it counts, im not against a landorus ban, as i was the initial person who fit it in with archeops when talking about its ban. to be completely honest, landorus severely restricts the metagame, all the sets it can run ALL destroy one anothers checks. and to make matters worse, the 2 best sets (gale wings/protean) destroy offense/stall respectively. were talking about a pokemon capable of picking its playstyle it wants to restrict and destroy. and stallbreaker protean lando even has element of surprise...since noone for some reason wants to run it, dispite it being the perfect lure for gale wingers to sweep. landorus was never a problem to me, but thats because we overprepare for it way too much. seriously. when unaware rhydon is your check, you know something is centralizing. and the problem is, they dont even STOP landorus if you guess the set wrong. the problem is, no matter what team type you are running, landorus will scare you. and it will either slowly injure your team if its the wrong set (its not like protean suckerpunch/choice banded brave birds cant threaten the "other side" of the team archetype) or just outright break your team to pieces. landorus is basically the "charizard" on steriods. instead of picking between physical and special defender...you pick between stall or offense in general.
252 Atk Life Orb Protean Landorus-T Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Doublade: 164-195 (51.4 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
thats the #1 check to gale wings...2hkoed on the switch...and permanently crippled so it cant handle gale wings anymore. for anyone doubting its power. also hp steel ironically is a beast coverage move, since allthough 60 base power, it destroys many of proteans usual counters without relying on iron tail.

In what way is Eviolite Doublade superior to an Unaware Rock type like Regirock for checking Landorus-Therian, even before Protean comes into play? (And don't tell me it runs Levitate, because then TalonTherian just Flare Blitzes it)

252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Regirock: 168-200 (46.1 - 54.9%) -- 11.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Doublade: 140-168 (43.4 - 52.1%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO

They are literally less than half a percent apart in survival odds, only Regirock's walling capacity isn't permanently crippled if something takes away its item, isn't vulnerable to anything from Talonflame (252+ Atk Landorus-T Steel Wing vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Regirock: 78-94 (21.4 - 25.8%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery=not remotely good enough), and nothing Protean Landorus-Therian does scares it even as much as the above Earthquake. (whoo-hoo, Landorus can hit with Drain Punch to keep its own health up)

Why on Earth would you consider Doublade to be the definitive Landorus-Therian check??

(252+ SpA Landorus-T Hidden Power Steel vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Regirock: 186-222 (51 - 60.9%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery since you brought up Hidden Power Steel. Note that this is the completely absurd scenario of Protean Landorus-Therian completely committing to Special -a more realistic scenario is 0- SpA Landorus-T Hidden Power Steel vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Regirock: 122-146 (33.5 - 40.1%) -- 38.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery, which is a joke)

Honestly, Gale wing's is very annoying, and while as its not that broken in terms of coverage or so, it does have the nuinsance that it does limit team building cause you pretty much need something that can take both; fire and flying and on top of it, bonus would that it doesnt mind getting burned by will o wisp.
Or you need to be able to check it with something faster priority wise, but those guys dont enjoy burns, cause talonflame gets that nasty will o.
Otherwise, hope you're bulky enough to enjoy those 120 stab boosted choice banded/peaked CA-CAWS

I know it has the positive side of being good for revenge killing, but with the mons in inheritance you can slap on it, it kinda goes overkill cause the attack stats allow it to also go for more than just that.
Still I am not sure if its that broken tho, but it is highly annoying.

There's also faster Pranksters, Prankster Flying resists (Behold Mega Banette-Registeel, which drops a Will O Wisp before they move/after they ineffectually use Brave Bird), Fur Coat walls, Regenerator cores (watch the Talonflame inherit kill itself on you, if they stubbornly keep attacking), Fake Outers, Extreme Speed (Mega Glalie with Extreme Speed=dead Landorus-Therian), Flying resistant Ice Sharders...

... the list is virtually endless. If you feel like there's a tiny pool of Donor/Inheritor combinations that can check/counter Gale Wings, you're just not looking hard enough. If you feel like it restricts teambuilding... I don't think that's a very good argument for banning or restricting Gale Wings when there's zillions of things out there that can kill your entire team because you never imagined they existed. There's ton of donors nobody gives any thought to with unique qualities that are probably hugely threatening in the right hands -and for instance I've never seen a weather team in Inheritance, even though the construction of one is significantly eased.

Inherits from Mega Rayquaza.

Inherits from Volbeat. Was meant for a Rain team.

Inherits from Serperior.

Inherits from Clawitzer.

If you're not going to run Roost or something on Galvantula, I'm not sure why you'd take Prankster over Swarm. Swarm is bad, yes, but it at least does something for Galvantula, sometimes. Prankster Tail Glow is only good for pushing past Taunts, if that.

I've run across more-or-less that Mega Sceptile, and it is really nasty for a team that either lacks a Gale Wings Pokemon or has lost theirs already. I might go for Hidden Power Ground over Hidden Power Fire, though, depending.

Clawitzer Hydreigon is disappointing. :(

I'm not sure a Life Orb is the ideal choice for the Aerodactyl, as it ensures that it will kill itself on Suicune or some such in short order, and I'm not convinced it really helps you grab any kills. I'll admit nothing leaps to mind other than Leftovers, and even with Delta Stream Aerodactyl's a bit fragile for that.

Nobody inherits from the same Pokemon multiple times

xJownage likes to run Double Talonflame, I've got a Protean spam team where 4 of the members inherit from Kecleon, and I've personally fought teams that have run double Breloom, double Quagsire, etc. It absolutely happens, and not just for dumb gimmick teams.

 

[Lcass4919]

In what way is Eviolite Doublade superior to an Unaware Rock type like Regirock for checking Landorus-Therian, even before Protean comes into play? (And don't tell me it runs Levitate, because then TalonTherian just Flare Blitzes it)

252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Regirock: 168-200 (46.1 - 54.9%) -- 11.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Doublade: 140-168 (43.4 - 52.1%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO

They are literally less than half a percent apart in survival odds, only Regirock's walling capacity isn't permanently crippled if something takes away its item, isn't vulnerable to anything from Talonflame (252+ Atk Landorus-T Steel Wing vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Regirock: 78-94 (21.4 - 25.8%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery=not remotely good enough), and nothing Protean Landorus-Therian does scares it even as much as the above Earthquake. (whoo-hoo, Landorus can hit with Drain Punch to keep its own health up)

Why on Earth would you consider Doublade to be the definitive Landorus-Therian check??

(252+ SpA Landorus-T Hidden Power Steel vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Regirock: 186-222 (51 - 60.9%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery since you brought up Hidden Power Steel. Note that this is the completely absurd scenario of Protean Landorus-Therian completely committing to Special -a more realistic scenario is 0- SpA Landorus-T
Hidden Power Steel vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Regirock: 122-146 (33.5 - 40.1%) -- 38.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery, which is a joke)

252 Atk Life Orb Protean Landorus-T Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Regirock: 97-114 (26.6 - 31.3%) -- 20% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
plus
252 Atk Life Orb Protean Landorus-T Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Regirock: 242-283 (66.4 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
cant switch into any move bar suckerpunch...
252 Atk Life Orb Protean Landorus-T Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Rhydon: 95-113 (22.9 - 27.2%) -- 50% chance to 4HKO
plus
4 SpA Life Orb Protean Landorus-T Hidden Power Steel vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rhydon: 330-390 (79.7 - 94.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Life Orb Protean Landorus-T Hidden Power Steel vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Diancie: 255-302 (83.8 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
thats why i didnt mention them. doublade can at least wisp all three potentially. though i did forget regirock was a thing. but i digress

 

[Mr155551]

Ban Gale Wings and Suicune.

BAN FKIN GALE WINGS AND SUICUNE

I don't agree considering gale wings and cune are not op by any means pretty much rock types walls gale wing lando that doesn't run hp steel and cune is walled by water absorbers that resist ice beam

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Zorlond I disagree. I believe Suicune is the most versatile physical wall in Inheritance. With access to at least 3 great sets from Alomomola, Quagsire, and Masquerain, it truly is an excellent and diverse physical wall that's amazing in halting sweeps, hence why some people believe it should get banned. I don't think it should be banned however, because there is such a power creep in inheritance that you just need to bring a wallbreaker, such as Electivire, or a Thunderbolt user (I use Competitive Infernape, although any special attacker could abuse Competitive and Wigglytuff's wide movepool).


Basically for the same reason Ability Clause was implemented in BH. Most teams only carry 1-2 checks/counters to a certain playstyle that can perhaps wall up to 3 Pokemon, but if you still have 3 Pokemon left with that abusable ability, you can simply overpower the opposing team. I actually think Protean is more abusable than Gale Wings tbh, since any Rock type or Flash Fire Steel or Electric type walls it. Protean however is unpredictable and has so many moves you can run. I believe an Ability Clause would be good, for basically the same reasons it was implemented in BH. The ability on its own may not be broken, but if you run a ton of them to overpower its checks and counters, then it can become broken.


I hate to have to say this to anybody, but you are literally driving me insane. You are the LAST person I expect to be criticizing anybody on their maturity level. And your first point applies to yourself! You REFUSE to even TRY to play around Gothitelle (btw Cresselia can inherit U-Turn/Heal Bell/recovery from Mew FYI) and thus you lose to it. You then come on here and say you can't beat it, so it should be banned. You CAN beat it, it may be difficult but it is simply another top tier threat that needs to be played around. I know it threatens stall, but a well built stall team should be able to play around it (for example, run a switching move on something Gothitelle weak, then use a Pursuit user). You also did not even understand Kasumi♥'s point that he/she knows his/her arguments aren't the most solid, but simply wishes for these Pokemon to be discussed. You have made a ton of shitty, immature, or just plain stupid posts in at least three threads I can think of off the top of my head (Metamons, Hidden Type, here), so if anybody should be taking a break to become mature, I believe it should be you. Sorry for being rude, but I'm fed up with your arrogance.




Pyroar is good simply because of STAB Boomburst and Fire Blast. I'm not saying its the best, but it can really abuse strong dual STABs with its great speed/special attack, as well as Levitate granting it an immunity to a type it is weak to, plus its always nice to use underrated Pokemon :) I agree that Mega Glalie is a better donor for Kyurem as well. Priority is by far superior as 95% of the time you just spam Frustration lol, and the rest of the time, hitting Gale Wings Lando-T is fun.

Alright, so I'll imply to only the part regarding myself and that's the last time I'm going to do so.
I don't see how anything I said to Kausi applies to myself. I don't REFUSE to play around Gothitelle, it's only that my team is close to perfection as it is, changing it to prepare for Gothitelle ( not the most common ) Isn't profitable. The fact that you suggest that Gothitelle is just something to play around just diminishes your argument. I'm not the only one "wishing" for a ban, there's been multiple people wanting the ban. Kasumi vented in the OU metaroom and posted here, both times more or less stringing along a sentence that "it's just bullshit" when I was bashed for saying "it has to go". Hypocrisy.

I don't use Cresselia as a mew inherit because Cresselia's main role is in Unaware. Please educate yourself on how stall, shadow tag and my team works before responding to this comment

 

[DarkeKnight]

I'm not really going to participate in the Shadow Tag debate as pretty much everything that needs to be said has been said. On another note, if Protean is really that overpowered, why not have something similar to the -ate clause in BH? There aren't any other abilities that are as overpowered(For lack of a better word) as Protean. The closest thing imo would be Gale Wings and as we all know, it doesn't take a lot of effort to counter it. So instead of an ability clause, a Protean clause would be better.

Edit: Also, I'd like to nominate Suicune for S rank and Cress for A+.

Suicune is incredibly versatile and something that every team needs to have a plan for. It's arguably the best physical wall in the tier, it gets STAB Scald, which as everyone knows is THE most annoying thing ever. It's typing is also pretty decent.

As for Cress, well, it's more bulkier than Suicune. It's easily more versatile than Suicune. It has a pretty decent typing, resisting Fighting. It can take pretty much any attack from an unboosted Pokemon and depending on its set, can cripple it with a burn, put it to sleep with Soore or even straight up KO it with Metal Burst.

Cress calcs:

252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 338-402 (76.1 - 90.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Landorus-T Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 222-262 (50 - 59%) -- 77.3% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Protean Rampardos Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 164-194 (36.9 - 43.6%) -- 99.5% chance to 3HKO

252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 254-300 (57.2 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 314-372 (70.7 - 83.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Refrigerate Mega Glalie Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 144-169 (32.4 - 38%) -- 0.9% chance to 3HKO

252+ Atk Mega Lopunny Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 142-168 (31.9 - 37.8%) -- 0.3% chance to 3HKO

252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 172-204 (38.7 - 45.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+2 252+ Atk Snorlax Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 283-334 (63.7 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+6 252 Atk Terrakion Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 246-291 (55.4 - 65.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 271-321 (61 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Darmanitan V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 324-382 (72.9 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 236-278 (53.1 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ Atk Mega Diancie Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 265-313 (59.6 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

That should cover pretty much every major physical attacker in the game. None of them OHKO.

 

[Tarontos]

You left out the couple of things that deal siginifigant damage
252+ Atk Adaptability Mega Beedrill Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 408-480 (91.8 - 108.1%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Scizor U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 320-380 (72 - 85.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
and even the strong tyranitar knock offs(most banded tyranitar will run one of these)
252+ Atk Choice Band Dark Aura Tyranitar Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 456-536 (102.7 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tyranitar Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 452-536 (101.8 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
and depending on what rampados is running, kekclon gets knock off
252+ Atk Choice Band Protean Rampardos Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 396-468 (89.1 - 105.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
or
252+ Atk Life Orb Protean Rampardos Fake Out vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 71-86 (15.9 - 19.3%) -- possible 7HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Protean Rampardos Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 346-408 (77.9 - 91.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

[DarkeKnight]

You left out the couple of things that deal siginifigant damage
252+ Atk Adaptability Mega Beedrill Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 408-480 (91.8 - 108.1%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Scizor U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 320-380 (72 - 85.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
and even the strong tyranitar knock offs(most banded tyranitar will run one of these)
252+ Atk Choice Band Dark Aura Tyranitar Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 456-536 (102.7 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tyranitar Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 452-536 (101.8 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
and depending on what rampados is running, kekclon gets knock off
252+ Atk Choice Band Protean Rampardos Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 396-468 (89.1 - 105.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
or
252+ Atk Life Orb Protean Rampardos Fake Out vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 71-86 (15.9 - 19.3%) -- possible 7HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Protean Rampardos Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 346-408 (77.9 - 91.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

I've never actually encountered those tbh, but you do have a point.

But still, Adamant Banded Adaptability/Dark Aura Tyranitar is required to actually OHKO. Just let that sink in. You need a STAB Adaptability Boosted Super Effective ~100 BP move from an attack stat of 134 to actually OHKO it. If that isn't convincing, I don't know what is.

Banded Knock Off alone requires rocks for a guaranteed OHKO. Plenty of 2HKOs become OHKOs with rocks, so I'm ignoring this one.

As for Fake Out + Knock Off, Cress can simply use Protect to stop Fake Out.

Also, factoring in leftovers recovery, Ramp will actually need very high rolls to kill it even if it somehow uses both Fake Out and Knock Off without Cress simply using Protect to increase its HP and survive. Once it's item is knocked off, Cress can simple Roost away all the damage. And that's not even taking into account Poison Heal which doesn't really mind losing its item.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

I'm not really going to participate in the Shadow Tag debate as pretty much everything that needs to be said has been said. On another note, if Protean is really that overpowered, why not have something similar to the -ate clause in BH? There aren't any other abilities that are as overpowered(For lack of a better word) as Protean. The closest thing imo would be Gale Wings and as we all know, it doesn't take a lot of effort to counter it. So instead of an ability clause, a Protean clause would be better.

Edit: Also, I'd like to nominate Suicune for S rank and Cress for A+.

Suicune is incredibly versatile and something that every team needs to have a plan for. It's arguably the best physical wall in the tier, it gets STAB Scald, which as everyone knows is THE most annoying thing ever. It's typing is also pretty decent.

As for Cress, well, it's more bulkier than Suicune. It's easily more versatile than Suicune. It has a pretty decent typing, resisting Fighting. It can take pretty much any attack from an unboosted Pokemon and depending on its set, can cripple it with a burn, put it to sleep with Soore or even straight up KO it with Metal Burst.

Cress calcs:

That should cover pretty much every major physical attacker in the game. None of them OHKO.

In Cresselia calc, you forgot one major Physical Attacker. Its Lucario Mega Medicham.

+2 252+ Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 406-478 (91.4 - 107.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

So it can beat it.

 

[kokoloko]

this meta is cool. just started playing it a few hours ago but i really like it thus far.

the most fun mon i've used so far is mega aero inheriting from mega rayquaza. strong winds allow for an easy SD and then you mega and get tough claws to boost dragon ascent, v-create, and extremespeed. you can also go eq>v-create but my god tough claws v-create is strong as shit.

edit: heh just realized someone posted something similar earlier but with LO. LO is garb tho :[

 

[Ghoul King]

Something I would like to add in regards to the possibility of a donor clause of some kind is that a donor clause would not, in most cases, be equivalent to Species Clause nor an Ability Clause -there are donors like Talonflame where pretty much any inheritor is fundamentally alike to any other inheritor, but most viable donors come in a surprising amount of variation, to the point that two Pokemon may be pulling from the same donor and yet have nothing in common in their movepool or Ability choice!

This is most obvious when looking at a Pokemon that can do both Physical and Special, in terms of movepool, but even cases where a Pokemon is more narrowly focused may still result in radically different inheritors, in terms of role, when pulling from the same donor.

Species Clause and to a lesser extent Ability Clause prevent players from making too many Pokemon that are overly similar in functionality. A donor clause would only restrict some things in this way -ie it would cap a team at one Gale Wings choice and no more than 2 Protean choices. But lots of other roles could be duplicated simply by finding overly similar Pokemon -even if in Standard nobody would ever run one over or with the other, due to terrible stats, an awful typing, a problematic combination of the two, all of which can be directly addressed by Inheritance.

I'm personally against a donor clause, but mostly I wanted to make this point because it's really easy to think it's directly equivalent to Species Clause or Ability Clause, and it really isn't.

EDIT: Also, I discovered what the issue with my Diancie inheriting from Mega Sableye was -for some reason the Ability had become Keen Eye (no clue how) rather than Magic Bounce. Once I corrected this the set was accepted.

I'd still like the error message to be changed to something like "regular Sableye is banned from being a donor" rather than the very vague "has an illegal Inheritance set".

 

[xJownage]

I don't care how my arguments are built up, and yes I know I cuss a lot, I made that post in like 3 minutes and couldn't be arsed to read it through. I was just stating my opinions / suggestions. I don't want to run something specifically to deal with a certain mon or ability. That's just bullshit. From what I've seen there's quite a few people complaining about Gale Wings and about Landorus-T. You may obviously disagree with me, but I don't disagree with myself.

You don't want to run checks/counters to common threats? This isn't your tier. If you don't want to run a keldeo check on your OU team, thats your fault, but don't blame it on us that oh its broken just because you have to run checks/counters to it. Thats not an argument, thats frustration.

TBH I am not against a gale wings suspect, but this argument will get shot down cold when it comes to voting.

Is it possible to make it to where event natures are ignored when determining the legality of a moveset?

For Example:

Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Download
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Iron Head
- Zen Headbutt
- Blaze Kick
- Shift Gear

This Metagross is inheriting from Genesect to receive Shift Gear and Download. Genesect offers Metagross two STABs, Iron Head and Zen Headbutt. For a coverage move I chose Blaze Kick, because Fire has good coverage with the other moves and Genesect doesn't have much else except maybe E-Speed going for Metagross. Running Blaze Kick, however, means that Metagross is forced to run a Hasty nature, which is kind of detrimental due to the weakening its defense stat.

Other interesting donors like Eruption Heatran, E-Speed or Aura Sphere Legendary dogs all have the same problem with event-locked natures and are unviable donors of those moves because of their terrible natures.

I feel like the nature should be ignored increase some poke donors' viability.

EDIT: Besides, its not like these are legal sets anyway in vanilla versions

This was covered by TI, the point is that you inherit another mons movesets, and arbitrarily eliminating illegalities defeats the purpose of the meta. TBH I don't agree with it but its what we have been given.

Kl4ng has been added to the Inheritance council! Congrats.
It now has six members, Adrian Marin, AnybodyAgrees, Kl4ng, Lcass4919, Snaquaza and yoman5.

If anyone is wondering, Kl4ng was added because he's both a great presence in this thread, leads intelligent discussion and knows a lot about the metagame. In addition he's a great battler, shown by his 26-0 rating on PS right now.

A tie of 3 Ban, 3 No Ban will be counted as a no ban.

I think that we need an odd number of council members. These 3v3 no bans can get UGLY in a hurry, and we've seen it before (Ghoul King says hi). Adding one or subtracting one makes sense atm, and while 7 seems like a big number, there is a ton of pressure on this council and the playerbase is gargantuan.

xJownage likes to run Double Talonflame, I've got a Protean spam team where 4 of the members inherit from Kecleon, and I've personally fought teams that have run double Breloom, double Quagsire, etc. It absolutely happens, and not just for dumb gimmick teams.

Uhh...I never ran dual talon. I had one team way back in the day that abused archeops and lant with different sets, but I haven't ran a team with dual birds since my birdspam team back in the very, VERY beginning. I am not saying its not good, however, its that I don't use it.

Alright, so I'll imply to only the part regarding myself and that's the last time I'm going to do so.
I don't see how anything I said to Kausi applies to myself. I don't REFUSE to play around Gothitelle, it's only that my team is close to perfection as it is, changing it to prepare for Gothitelle ( not the most common ) Isn't profitable. The fact that you suggest that Gothitelle is just something to play around just diminishes your argument. I'm not the only one "wishing" for a ban, there's been multiple people wanting the ban. Kasumi vented in the OU metaroom and posted here, both times more or less stringing along a sentence that "it's just bullshit" when I was bashed for saying "it has to go". Hypocrisy.

I don't use Cresselia as a mew inherit because Cresselia's main role is in Unaware. Please educate yourself on how stall, shadow tag and my team works before responding to this comment

I "bashed" you for making the snide comment "It has to go." I proceeded to bash Kasumi in the same way for saying "its just bullshit." Either way, don't bring me into this please.

Cresselia has a lot more roles than unaware, and tbh I am not seeing a lot of unaware nowadays.

Edit: Also, I'd like to nominate Suicune for S rank and Cress for A+.

I am holding off on suicune for S rank, but Cress' unreal versatility may warrant it a spot in A when I discuss it with some of the others. It can run any defensive set in existence effectively. Besides fur coat. Stop using fur coat.

Ghoul King I cannot figure out why it doesnt say inheriting from sable is banned either, but it should since people have to track down the thread instead.