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Hm, so ThunderPunch isn't as useful as it used to be. Looks like I'll have to suggest Gyarados pivots to make this work, though I dearly hate RestTalk versions with DragonTail (God Forbid someone uses Roar).
So, Trick will go into a primary slash with U-Turn right behind it. ThunderPunch will be last!
LineBacker said:
Balloon Heatran should be mentioned as it can switch into fire or ground attacks and possibly nab a flash fire boost. It can KO Jirachi's counters such as opposing Heatran, Nattorei, steel types in general, can KO or heavily damage water-types with HP Grass if Jirachi managed to pass light screen or a sub (U-turn passes stats and subs right?) and can heavily damage Gliscor with a fire blast while it tries to pop the balloon, or if you predict an Acrobat you can just switch something else in.
Hm, so ThunderPunch isn't as useful as it used to be. Looks like I'll have to suggest Gyarados pivots to make this work, though I dearly hate RestTalk versions with DragonTail (God Forbid someone uses Roar).
So, Trick will go into a primary slash with U-Turn right behind it. ThunderPunch will be last!
Will mention it, though I don't like the fact that Balloon is such a one-use policy.
Alright, let's see what we can improve on. I know there are a few dusty spots here and there. Also, still not enthusiastic about defensive wish.
I always make this recommendation for ScarfRachi: I find ThunderPunch in most cases inferior to Thunderbolt. With Thunderbolt, all variants of Gyarados bar weird special defensive spreads are either OHKOed/or have a good chance of being OHKOed by Thunderbolt after Stealth Rock damage. In addition, Thunderbolt is unaffected by Intimidate and can cleanly 2HKO physically defensive Skarmory whereas Thunderpunch 4HKOS if you're lucky. However, against Sp.def Skarmory, neither ThunderPunch nor Thunderbolt pack the punch to 2HKO either Skarmory, but Thunderbolt does more damage regardless.
Just be sure to change Jirachi's nature from Jolly to Naive/Hasty.
I think Thunder Wave should be the first choice on the sub paralysis set because it's guarunteed to get the paralysis off. Also I think you should add Toxic as an option over Twave / Body Slam and rename it Sub-Flinch and get rid of the Toxica set.
Jirachi doesnt particularly need any bulk if it's abusing Substitutes and Flinches to Toxic it's opponent to death.
I always make this recommendation for ScarfRachi: I find ThunderPunch in most cases inferior to Thunderbolt. With Thunderbolt, all variants of Gyarados bar weird special defensive spreads are either OHKOed/or have a good chance of being OHKOed by Thunderbolt after Stealth Rock damage. In addition, Thunderbolt is unaffected by Intimidate and can cleanly 2HKO physically defensive Skarmory whereas Thunderpunch 4HKOS if you're lucky. However, against Sp.def Skarmory, neither ThunderPunch nor Thunderbolt pack the punch to 2HKO either Skarmory, but Thunderbolt does more damage regardless.
Just be sure to change Jirachi's nature from Jolly to Naive/Hasty.
It's not a bad idea, but then again Jirachi can always U-Turn to a counter for Skarmory (or pretty much any Pokemon) or cripple it with a Trick. This does for Gyarados as well.
I'll be sure to place the Thunderbolt suggestions in OO.
Mooo said:
I think Thunder Wave should be the first choice on the sub paralysis set because it's guarunteed to get the paralysis off. Also I think you should add Toxic as an option over Twave / Body Slam and rename it Sub-Flinch and get rid of the Toxica set.
Jirachi doesnt particularly need any bulk if it's abusing Substitutes and Flinches to Toxic it's opponent to death.
I put Body Slam as a primary slash mostly because Jirachi is on of the few users with the unique combination of Body Slam + Serene Grace. You can take any old Thunder Wave user like Thundurus or Celebi and that's that. I can see why Thunder Wave would be a primary slash though.
I'll wait for some comments on Body Slam vs Thunder Wave.
Also, Toxica plays much differently than Paralysis + Substitute. It would take too much commentary to simply replace Body Slam / thunder wave and analyze the moveset. Also, I will add an offensive EV spread to Toxica, though the defensive spread allows Jirachi to put stall teams in jeopardy (Ah, how I love Dusclops and Chansey and Jellicent...). Jirachi's also relying on increasing Toxic damage and entry hazards in this case, so Jirachi doesn't mind a weak Iron Head.
I think Thunder Wave should be the first choice on the sub paralysis set because it's guarunteed to get the paralysis off. Also I think you should add Toxic as an option over Twave / Body Slam and rename it Sub-Flinch and get rid of the Toxica set.
Jirachi doesnt particularly need any bulk if it's abusing Substitutes and Flinches to Toxic it's opponent to death.
I prefer Body Slam. I've never used Thunder Wave, so I wouldn't know, but Body Slam seems like the better option for all around coverage/getting the best out of one moveset. It's more hard for me to decide because all the sets like that that I used I always used in conjunction with Wish, meaning that the 60% chance was less of a gamble.
To point out, Body Slam will break Heatran's Balloon on the switch, making him that much more easy to kill then a just Paralyzed one.
It comes down to defensive vs. offensive, and what you want for your moveset.
I put Body Slam as a primary slash mostly because Jirachi is on of the few users with the unique combination of Body Slam + Serene Grace. You can take any old Thunder Wave user like Thundurus or Celebi and that's that. I can see why Thunder Wave would be a primary slash though.
I'll wait for some comments on Body Slam vs Thunder Wave.
Well, Jirachi isnt any Thunder waver, it's got unique typing and 60% chance Iron Head. And with body slam, you really need to rely on luck. Them damage isnt great, and it's really only the secondary effect you're looking for, so it really sucks when it doesnt pay off.
Also, Toxica plays much differently than Paralysis + Substitute. It would take too much commentary to simply replace Body Slam / thunder wave and analyze the moveset. Also, I will add an offensive EV spread to Toxica, though the defensive spread allows Jirachi to put stall teams in jeopardy (Ah, how I love Dusclops and Chansey and Jellicent...). Jirachi's also relying on increasing Toxic damage and entry hazards in this case, so Jirachi doesn't mind a weak Iron Head.
Actually, the two are very similar. Since the only difference is one move, so I suggested you combine the two sets. With T-Wave, you're basically trying to hax them to death with flinching and paralysis. With Toxic, you want to flinch the opponent to make the poison damage increase every turn, but apart from that, they're pretty much the same.
Jirachi has Substitute and 60% flinch Iron Head and natural bulk. Because of this, you don't really plan on taking many hits, making defensive EV's useless. Plus you're just picking on slow bulky pokes which usually dont pack much of a punch.
I prefer Body Slam. I've never used Thunder Wave, so I wouldn't know, but Body Slam seems like the better option for all around coverage/getting the best out of one moveset. It's more hard for me to decide because all the sets like that that I used I always used in conjunction with Wish, meaning that the 60% chance was less of a gamble.
To point out, Body Slam will break Heatran's Balloon on the switch, making him that much more easy to kill then a just Paralyzed one.
It comes down to defensive vs. offensive, and what you want for your moveset.
So you prefer one when you haven't tried the other? o.o The damage on Body Slam isnt why you use it, it's the paralysis, and that's down to luck.
Also, with Balloon Tran, you can just Twave it and then use Iron Head to flinch it anyways.... It has such a small chance to attack anyway. thats a pretty bad reason to pick Body Slam over T-wave.
So you prefer one when you haven't tried the other? o.o The damage on Body Slam isnt why you use it, it's the paralysis, and that's down to luck.
Also, with Balloon Tran, you can just Twave it and then use Iron Head to flinch it anyways.... It has such a small chance to attack anyway. thats a pretty bad reason to pick Body Slam over T-wave.
I'll do a little bit of testing, but to note, why would you try flinch haxing a Heatran? Iron Head is only doing like 4% where if it gets a chance to attack, you're dead.
I want to see some more comments on this.
EDIT: Tested, still like Body Slam. Main reason being it can hit ground types. Also, It keeps offensive momentum.
There's another reason, Body Slam can't be Taunted. It's the primary reason I put it on my lead set. But remember, if you choose Body Slam to hit Ground types, you in turn can't paralyze Ghosts with it, so it's a trade off.
Set Comments
Ice beam isn't really needed because of draco, very nice on dragon types, and the fact that Thunder bolt hits about as many pokes without getting blocked is why it is better, might want it because of TTar or other ground types.
Set Comments
Ice beam isn't really needed because of draco, very nice on dragon types, and the fact that Thunder bolt hits about as many pokes without getting blocked is why it is better, might want it because of TTar or other ground types.
What does this set do that SuperAchi or SubCM don't? It is clear you haven't even playtested the set as is, as Jirachi does not learn Ice Beam. Draco Meteor is a very niche move on Jirachi and its place is certainly not on a set running a mere 299 SpA without STAB.
In any case, I'll list the trade off for Thunder Wave vs Body Slam. Thunder Wave's the primary option since Jirachi's more of a supporter than a sweeper (I mean look at that bad coverage). I noted that if an interested user is running decent or dedicated paralysis support, Jirachi should go with Body Slam to hit the Ground-types (especially Garchomp and Excadrill).
I myself run Body Slam to lure in Ground-type counters and surprise them after death by Iron Head, and it does decently enough against other types with 60% paralysis.
There's a lot to say here! There are also several unnecessary sets, let's see:
Remove 'Superachi v.2'
I don't see much of a reason for having two Superachi sets listed in an analysis; it's redundant if you ask me. Iron Head on CM Jirachi is cool since it allows you to fare better against the likes of Blissey, so the set definitely has its merits. I'd simply give the Superachi v.2 set a mention in Additional Comments.
Remove 'Toxica'
Jirachi is better off abusing Iron Head + paralysis with Fire Punch as the final move than it is abusing Toxic. This is because with Toxic and Iron Head as your only moves, you're walled completely by Steel-types like Ferrothorn, Scizor, Magnezone, and Skarmory, all of which can set up on you with ease.
Remove 'Offensive Wish'
This set is just outclassed by Jirachi's defensive Wish set.
Since that's out of the way, let's move on. Jirachi is incredibly useful in the current metagame, mainly it can effectively check Pokemon such as Latios and Latias. Here's what I've been using on my latest team:
Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 216 SpD / 40 Spe
Careful Nature (+SpD, -SpA)
- Iron Head
- Body Slam / Thunder Wave
- Wish
- Fire Punch
Body Slam will be paralyzing your opponent's quite frequently, and with Iron Head's 60% flinch rate, you'll be sure to annoy your opponent. Wish works amazingly well with Iron Head: flinch your opponent while you recover your health after using Wish. It's also great for replenishing your teammates health as well. Fire Punch is there so you can deal damage to Ferrothorn and Scizor, among other Steel-types. The EVs make Jirachi a great switch into Latios's Draco Meteor, etc. IMO, this should be the very first set listed; it's way more useful than Calm Mind.
The above set is very similar to the 'Defensive Wish' set you have listed in your OP. If you want, you can mention the EV spread of 240 HP / 160 Def / 76 SpD / 32 Spe with an Impish nature that's in the OP in Additional Comments, and talk about the merits of U-turn over Fire Punch. By doing this, you effectively make this analysis more concise and prevent two relatively similar sets from going up.
Remove Life Orb as an item option on Superachi. Life Orb takes away from Jirachi's natural bulk, and just isn't worth it if you ask me. Mention it in Additional Comments if you wish. Expert Belt is also outclassed by Leftovers; as such, make Leftovers the main item option. You also have a lot of slashes; relegate HP Ice to Additional Comments. It's only good for the jump on Gliscor and Gliscor won't like taking CM boosted Psychic's anyway. Other 'mons that you hit with HP Ice outpace and KO you (Landlos and Garchomp to name a few).
Well, that was sure a lot to take in; thre was a lot to say here. If you got lost reading this, here's a summary of my changes:
Remove the sets listed at the beginning of this post
Add the Special Defensive set I mentioned and make it the first set in Jirachi's analysis. Also make a mention of the EV spread / nature you have for the 'Defensive Wish' set in the Additional Comments section of the Special Defensive set.
Leftovers > Expert Belt and Life Orb on Superachi
Remove Hidden Power Ice on Superachi and put it in Additional Comments.
I was going to talk about removing the Choice Specs set, but this post is long enough as is. PK Gaming will be covering that shortly. I'll approve this for you once these changes have been made.
I'm sorry but i'm going to have to reject the Specs set. It's simply not effective in the current standard metagame. Despite receiving a buff, Doom Desire is still pretty subpar because it takes a turn of a charging. Specs users should be powerful hit & run types and Doom Desire is totally the opposite of that. Its easy to wall and play around the set, and it requires to much support to be of any use.
I agree with absolutely everything Bloo said btw. This gets a stamp from me once all of the changes have been implemented.
There's a lot to say here! There are also several unnecessary sets, let's see:
Remove 'Superachi v.2'
I don't see much of a reason for having two Superachi sets listed in an analysis; it's redundant if you ask me. Iron Head on CM Jirachi is cool since it allows you to fare better against the likes of Blissey, so the set definitely has its merits. I'd simply give the Superachi v.2 set a mention in Additional Comments.
Remove 'Toxica'
Jirachi is better off abusing Iron Head + paralysis with Fire Punch as the final move than it is abusing Toxic. This is because with Toxic and Iron Head as your only moves, you're walled completely by Steel-types like Ferrothorn, Scizor, Magnezone, and Skarmory, all of which can set up on you with ease.
Remove 'Offensive Wish'
This set is just outclassed by Jirachi's defensive Wish set.
Since that's out of the way, let's move on. Jirachi is incredibly useful in the current metagame, mainly it can effectively check Pokemon such as Latios and Latias. Here's what I've been using on my latest team:
Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 216 SpD / 40 Spe
Careful Nature (+SpD, -SpA)
- Iron Head
- Body Slam / Thunder Wave
- Wish
- Fire Punch
Body Slam will be paralyzing your opponent's quite frequently, and with Iron Head's 60% flinch rate, you'll be sure to annoy your opponent. Wish works amazingly well with Iron Head: flinch your opponent while you recover your health after using Wish. It's also great for replenishing your teammates health as well. Fire Punch is there so you can deal damage to Ferrothorn and Scizor, among other Steel-types. The EVs make Jirachi a great switch into Latios's Draco Meteor, etc. IMO, this should be the very first set listed; it's way more useful than Calm Mind.
The above set is very similar to the 'Defensive Wish' set you have listed in your OP. If you want, you can mention the EV spread of 240 HP / 160 Def / 76 SpD / 32 Spe with an Impish nature that's in the OP in Additional Comments, and talk about the merits of U-turn over Fire Punch. By doing this, you effectively make this analysis more concise and prevent two relatively similar sets from going up.
Remove Life Orb as an item option on Superachi. Life Orb takes away from Jirachi's natural bulk, and just isn't worth it if you ask me. Mention it in Additional Comments if you wish. Expert Belt is also outclassed by Leftovers; as such, make Leftovers the main item option. You also have a lot of slashes; relegate HP Ice to Additional Comments. It's only good for the jump on Gliscor and Gliscor won't like taking CM boosted Psychic's anyway. Other 'mons that you hit with HP Ice outpace and KO you (Landlos and Garchomp to name a few).
Well, that was sure a lot to take in; thre was a lot to say here. If you got lost reading this, here's a summary of my changes:
Remove the sets listed at the beginning of this post
Add the Special Defensive set I mentioned and make it the first set in Jirachi's analysis. Also make a mention of the EV spread / nature you have for the 'Defensive Wish' set in the Additional Comments section of the Special Defensive set.
Leftovers > Expert Belt and Life Orb on Superachi
Remove Hidden Power Ice on Superachi and put it in Additional Comments.
I was going to talk about removing the Choice Specs set, but this post is long enough as is. PK Gaming will be covering that shortly. I'll approve this for you once these changes have been made.
I'm sorry but i'm going to have to reject the Specs set. It's simply not effective in the current standard metagame. Despite receiving a buff, Doom Desire is still pretty subpar because it takes a turn of a charging. Specs users should be powerful hit & run types and Doom Desire is totally the opposite of that. Its easy to wall and play around the set, and it requires to much support to be of any use.
I agree with absolutely everything Bloo said btw. This gets a stamp from me once all of the changes have been implemented.
Okay, the following changes have been implemented:
Superachi V.2 removed. I wasn't very happy with the fact that opponent took advantage of the recoil either.
Choice Specs removed. I was satisfied with this a bit, but okay.
Toxica removed. That's okay.
Offensive Wish removed.
Hidden Power Ice and Life Orb relegated to AC on Superachi! Personally, I see why.
Bloo's set added and put on top of the other sets. I named it Specially Defensive.
mentioned the Defensive Wish strategy in Specially Defensive (Bloo's set)
removed mentions of the sets in the other sections.
Whew! That was a lot to edit and erase. Thanks, guys! I didn't mind the wait because this was a Mamoswine to look at, and I believe I implemented all your changes; inform me if I haven't.
And as a side note, the analysis has gotten fairly shorter! :D
[Dream World]
<p>Jirachi does not recieve a Dream World ability, though an alternate ability would have been most likely outclassed by Jirachi's so-wonderfully abused Serene Grace.</p>
Just say "Jirachi does not receive a Dream World ability." There's absolutely no way to tell if Jirachi's Dream World ability would be outclassed by Serene Grace or not; what if Jirachi got Wonder Guard? :naughty:
Alright, thanks for the QC checks, guys! Wow, three in a row from the Trio...
I am done with writing the analyses for Specially Defensive and Paralysis + Substitute, currently left with four more sections to write (three sets and the Overview). This will all be done this week to this weekend.
Just a nitpick on the specially defensive set: 40 evs is definitely speed creep and shouldn't go on site. Only 32 are actually needed to outspeed tyranitar, and the extra 8 only serve to outspeed other mons trying to outspeed tyranitar.
[SET]
name: Choice band
move 1: Iron Head
move 2: Ice Punch
move 3: Stealth Rock/Toxic
move 4: Trick
nature: Jolly
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 hp
CB Rachi deserves a mention, it cripples almost anything that comes in to take it out, hopefuly outspeeding to start, and then giving it a choice band to make it useless, because most are special? I've use CB rachi a lot, and no one predicts the ice punch comming and the huge damage along with it. 328 speed and roughly 450 Atk make it very... powerful?
Choice Band Jirachi does not "cripple" much of anything with its average 299 Attack and low BP moves. Catching something on the switch with Ice Punch doesn't make it powerful, it just means you predicted well. Stealth Rock and Trick are not as effective on a CB set. Honestly, Jirachi just has better things to be doing.
Please slash Secret Power along Body Slam/T-wave because as a WiFi player, Body slam is not really available (3rd Gen move tutor) and Secret Power during Wifi battles have the same paralysis rate (although less power).
<p>The last slot is entirely up to the user. Fire Punch provides a pivot against Scizor and Ferrothorn, both of which are significant defensive threats. Protect provides Jirachi with a way to scout for incoming attacks and grants healing after Wish has been used. With Protect, Jirachi will not have to rely on Iron Head as much, but it cannot check Scizor or Ferrothorn as much. U-Turn is also an option to pass Jirachi’s Wishes safely to another teammate; with Jirachi’s slow Speed and bulk, it is nearly guaranteed to heal another teammate successfully.</p>
