Kangaskhanite Tiering Discussion [+Demographics Poll Added to OP]

[CarbonTheSecond]

Base 105 HP, Base 100 Defenses, Base 100 Speed, Base 125 Attack and... dear lord, the damage output is boosted by 1.5x? Even with Khan's already diverse movepool and the addition of Power-Up punch? Yeah, it's a pretty insane repertoire (especially in 454 Ubers, where it can outrun Xerneas and Yveltal).

Now, if someone can present a solid argument as to why Mega-Kanga shouldn't be banned, I'd be inclined to listen. But... sacking Ferro for prior damage and then attempting an RK with Talonflame? Come on guys, if your best plan involves letting something get KO'd so you can maybe, just maybe, get a revenge kill with a frail priority user, then you're effectively admitting that Kanga's broken. Having a dedicated defensive wall with a Rocky Helmet is just as ridiculous; besides removing passive recovery for when you have to deal with, say, anything else in the metagame, Kanga can carry Knock Off (edit: apparently, it can't. nbd). And if it doesn't, you can bet that something else on your opponent's team is; Gen 6 has made it quite viable.

In summary, Mega-Kanga's just too much. Most likely worth a ban.

 

[TonicWater]

hey guys, think about it this way;

if megakhan is going to be as popular as everyone says, and its going to be gamebreaking, then why wouldn't that create opportunity for mega-alakazam?
send it out into kanga, it grabs parental bond, and you sweep the opposing team? of course alakazam is frail, but until we give it a try or run some calcs, it looks good on paper to me.

 

[Rechi]

I would also like to put this out there to everyone who thinks running Rocky Helmet on Ferrothorn or Skarmory. Pray you don't run into a MKhan player teaming it with Magnezone.

Or if it's running Seismic Toss for that matter since it 2HKO's them both.

 

[Edgar81539]

Ok, I'm tired of people saying "SKARMORY COUNTERS IT, DOH, HURRRRR!!!". It doesn't!!!!

+2 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 138-162 (41.3 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Take into account that normal skarmory runs some EVs on Speed instead of Defense in order to outspeed certain threats and roost safely against them, so...

+2 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Skarmory: 145-172 (43.4 - 51.4%) -- 9.8% chance to 2HKO

Rocks and your Skarmory is gone.

 

[Tressed]

hey guys, think about it this way;

if megakhan is going to be as popular as everyone says, and its going to be gamebreaking, then why wouldn't that create opportunity for mega-alakazam?
send it out into kanga, it grabs parental bond, and gets OHKOed by Sucker Punch

Fixed that for ya mate.

 

[KztxL7]

hey guys, think about it this way;

if megakhan is going to be as popular as everyone says, and its going to be gamebreaking, then why wouldn't that create opportunity for mega-alakazam?
send it out into kanga, it grabs parental bond, and you sweep the opposing team? of course alakazam is frail, but until we give it a try or run some calcs, it looks good on paper to me.

It's frail as hell and loses the revenge killing aspect that normal Alakazam would get with Focus Sash.

Oh and Sucker Punch.

 

[TheMohZone]

Base 105 HP, Base 100 Defenses, Base 100 Speed, Base 125 Attack and... dear lord, the damage output is boosted by 1.5x? Even with Khan's already diverse movepool and the addition of Power-Up punch? Yeah, it's a pretty insane repertoire (especially in 454 Ubers, where it can outrun Xerneas and Yveltal).

Now, if someone can present a solid argument as to why Mega-Kanga shouldn't be banned, I'd be inclined to listen. But... sacking Ferro for prior damage and then attempting an RK with Talonflame? Come on guys, if your best plan involves letting something get KO'd so you can maybe, just maybe, get a revenge kill with a frail priority user, then you're effectively admitting that Kanga's broken. Having a dedicated defensive wall with a Rocky Helmet is just as ridiculous; besides removing passive recovery for when you have to deal with, say, anything else in the metagame, Kanga can carry Knock Off. And if it doesn't, you can bet that something else on your opponent's team is; Gen 6 has made it quite viable.

In summary, Mega-Kanga's just too much. Most likely worth a ban.

no it can't. Serebii and the Sim are wrong, hence why Crunch is the slash.

its still busted as balls.

hey guys, think about it this way;

if megakhan is going to be as popular as everyone says, and its going to be gamebreaking, then why wouldn't that create opportunity for mega-alakazam?
send it out into kanga, it grabs parental bond, and you sweep the opposing team? of course alakazam is frail, but until we give it a try or run some calcs, it looks good on paper to me.

Sucker Punch. and you STILL Need to sack something to get it in.

 

[Salt]

hey guys, think about it this way;

if megakhan is going to be as popular as everyone says, and its going to be gamebreaking, then why wouldn't that create opportunity for mega-alakazam?
send it out into kanga, it grabs parental bond, and you sweep the opposing team? of course alakazam is frail, but until we give it a try or run some calcs, it looks good on paper to me.

Two words: Sucker Punch.

(as said by all the ninjas above me)

 

[nyczxjay]

hey guys, think about it this way;

if megakhan is going to be as popular as everyone says, and its going to be gamebreaking, then why wouldn't that create opportunity for mega-alakazam?
send it out into kanga, it grabs parental bond, and you sweep the opposing team? of course alakazam is frail, but until we give it a try or run some calcs, it looks good on paper to me.

I don't see the point of this post. Your Trevenant argument has been debunked, and this doesn't do anything to convince me that MegKang should remain OU.

Also, Sucker Punch.

EDIT: ninja'ed

 

[Varnithis]

hey guys, think about it this way;

if megakhan is going to be as popular as everyone says, and its going to be gamebreaking, then why wouldn't that create opportunity for mega-alakazam?
send it out into kanga, it grabs parental bond, and you sweep the opposing team? of course alakazam is frail, but until we give it a try or run some calcs, it looks good on paper to me.

This has been covered. MegaZam actually can come in, and with disable, shut down sucker punch on a good prediction and threaten back with parental bond itself. The problem is that, it is then immediatly killed with priority on a revenge kill. Or you guess wrong and get OHKO'd anyways.

 

[TonicWater]

I know that sucker punch is a thing; i'm just scrambling to think of some way that a person could sack a kanga. I'm sort of pro ban here, but I really don't ever like to thinnk that a poke is undefeatable.

 

[Salt]

This has been covered. MegaZam actually can come in, and with disable, shut down sucker punch on a good prediction and threaten back with parental bond itself. The problem is that, it is then immediatly killed with priority on a revenge kill. Or you guess wrong and get OHKO'd anyways.

If you have to run something as gimmicky as Disable Mega Alakazam to beat this thing.... yeah. Let's stop beating the dead horse.

 

[Dragontamer]

hey guys, think about it this way;

if megakhan is going to be as popular as everyone says, and its going to be gamebreaking, then why wouldn't that create opportunity for mega-alakazam?
send it out into kanga, it grabs parental bond, and you sweep the opposing team? of course alakazam is frail, but until we give it a try or run some calcs, it looks good on paper to me.

Standard `khan has Sucker punch, which not only OHKOs Mega-Zam, but also OHKOs the far more threatening and far more useful Magic Guard / Focus Sash regular Alakazam (who normally cannot die even when Stealth Rocks is on the field...)

I know that sucker punch is a thing; i'm just scrambling to think of some way that a person could sack a kanga. I'm sort of pro ban here, but I really don't ever like to thinnk that a poke is undefeatable.

Ubers pokemon are regularly beatable. Kyogre is beaten by Shedinja and Ludicolo for instance. (which is... more pokemon than Mega-Khan right now >_<). The question is "are these `mon overcentralizing" ???


And yes, Kyogre is overcentralizing with its Choice Scarf Rain-Boosted Water Spouts. Similarly, Khan is overcentralizing, even if it has Sableye as a "counter".

 

[KztxL7]

We know it's defeatable. It that defeating it comes at way to much effort and cost for a single pokemon in a battle of 3 or 6.

 

[nyczxjay]

I know that sucker punch is a thing; i'm just scrambling to think of some way that a person could sack a kanga. I'm sort of pro ban here, but I really don't ever like to thinnk that a poke is undefeatable.

Obviously MegaKang is not unbeatable. Everything is beatable, otherwise MegaKang will never faint in battle...

 

[TonicWater]

I know that it's defeatable too. I've taken them out. But a poke that has no counters is no good in my book, especially in VGC.

 

[TheMohZone]

This has been covered. MegaZam actually can come in, and with disable, shut down sucker punch on a good prediction and threaten back with parental bond itself. The problem is that, it is then immediatly killed with priority on a revenge kill. Or you guess wrong and get OHKO'd anyways.

so you would need Disable, Focus miss to kill Kang (And we thought will-o was bad) Psyshock to prevent walls killing you and Filler to maybe get a chance of a sweep going. and 9/10 its not gonna work. and the set doesn't seem viable on its own (Partially cause its mega Alakasam)

Brilliance.

I know that sucker punch is a thing; i'm just scrambling to think of some way that a person could sack a kanga. I'm sort of pro ban here, but I really don't ever like to thinnk that a poke is undefeatable.

its not undefeatable. its just Outside Sableye it takes a unit of at least 2 pokemon to kill it thats all. so ya know its busted.

 

[TonicWater]

the only counter that i see is speed boost blaziken, which is banned in OU anyway.

 

[MoosyDoosy]

Lol, everything is covered. Just read the first couple of pages and you can see Mega Kanga is banworthy. What's with the argument. What's with the fight. The thing is a Kangaroo. With a baby. Ban it.

 

[Xtarviust]

"hurr durr, Trevenant and Lucario-M counters Kangaskhan, hurr durr"

For the god's sake, someone tell to those retards that it's a PvP system, not the IA of the games.

 

[Numera]

Look at this madness. Us pro bans have made it obvious mega kang should be banned. However the Anti bans are just saying "Uh look I beta it with X it's not OP"
I think the outcome is clear already and this thread has lost relevance

This reminds me of Paula praying for help. I'll do a speed up gag.

"Mods, please, give us strength, anyone who will listen... the anti bans are going nuts, please..."

 

[CarbonTheSecond]

Lol, everything is covered. Just read the first couple of pages and you can see Mega Kanga is banworthy. What's with the argument. What's with the fight. The thing is a Kangaroo. With a baby. Ban it.

You're expecting too much of Smogon discussions. Every time someone makes a decent argument, a completely new user pops in, somehow misses all of the points in the thread, and makes the exact same statement as the legion of like-minded users before them. Thus, you have people trying, in vain, to stop the flow of moot points. That's your 'fight.'

 

[Varnithis]

The problem with Sableye is that while 1v1, Sableeye really shuts MegaKhan down, Khan still has a team. More and more I'm loving Espeon (granted this is 3v3 Wifi meta) as a partner for Khan. Sableye is becoming massively popular to stop the wrath of Khan, and Espeon rocking choice specs/scarf with magic guard switches in, reflects the burn onto Sableye, and then OHKO's with Dazzling gleam before foul play can hit.

Ferrothorn, skarmory, and many other "Counters" that have been mentioned using this amazing rocky helmet that always works (it doesn't) are easily cleaned up by Khan's team as well without their lefties or berries for recovery. And now what?

What stops Khan once these shaky checks are gone?

Nothing in OU.

 

[Dark T]

When will a final decision on this matter be made?

 

[Uvood]

Obviously MegaKang is not unbeatable. Everything is beatable, otherwise MegaKang will never faint in battle...

Nono, the god Mega Kanga never truly faints. He first takes his sacrifice and lets the Talonflames and fighting types take him back home, where he eats his Ferrothorns and Skarmory's for dinner!