If it hasn't been asked already, why is Keldeo listed as a suicide lead on water? The only thing I can think of that would make it one is Taunt, but it lacks any other utility for a suicide lead...
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Monotype Role Compendium
- Thread starter lax
- Start date
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Keldeo gets endeavor.
Agreeing with Red here:
I think of a suicide lead as something that can set up some form of hazard or weather or trick room, etc with the intention of leading with it and dying after setting up those field conditions. Leading with Keldeo and letting it kill itself to get off an Endeavor is almost never worth it, but besides that even if it did I wouldn't consider it a suicide lead because it's not setting anything up.
The only water-type suicide leads I can think of areGreninja, Cloyster, Omastar & Qwilfish, but I don't know if any of their hazard sets are viable enough to put in a compendium, lol
I think of a suicide lead as something that can set up some form of hazard or weather or trick room, etc with the intention of leading with it and dying after setting up those field conditions. Leading with Keldeo and letting it kill itself to get off an Endeavor is almost never worth it, but besides that even if it did I wouldn't consider it a suicide lead because it's not setting anything up.
The only water-type suicide leads I can think of are
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Hey, guys! I know it's been a long time since I updated/anyone posted on the thread (sorry for being lazy) but... I finally updated it! Sorry to SirSkit, Chleg, and Misaka Mikoto because I ran out of space to add more on x_x when I get more space, I will add asap so dw.
Also guys, were almost there! We just need Normal and Steel completed and were all good to go! If anyone wants to finish it up, just reserve and post here, thanks for all the work everyone!
Tagging scpinion to move my reserved post (if possible) on the old resource page to directly below the OP so I can make it look more organized and include every single type. I deleted it before cos I thought I didn't need it but you should be able to see it (?)
Also guys, were almost there! We just need Normal and Steel completed and were all good to go! If anyone wants to finish it up, just reserve and post here, thanks for all the work everyone!
Tagging scpinion to move my reserved post (if possible) on the old resource page to directly below the OP so I can make it look more organized and include every single type. I deleted it before cos I thought I didn't need it but you should be able to see it (?)
Ill reserve steel. I should be able to get it done by tomorrow night.
here it is:
Thats what I got so far. Probs missing stuff so feel free to wreck it over.
here it is:
Steel:
Wallbreakers:
Stallbreakers:
Pivots
Offensive:
Defensive:
Rock Users:
Suicide Leads:
Hazard Removal:
Choice Scarfed Users:
Priority:
Clerics / Wish Passers:
Trappers:
Fighting-Type Checks:
Fire-Type Checks:
Ground-Type Checks:
Setup Sweepers
Swords Dance:
Calm Mind:
Rock Polish / Agility:
Other Set Up:
(Hone claws)
(Curse)
(Curse)
(Iron Defense)
Wallbreakers:
Stallbreakers:
Pivots
Offensive:
Defensive:
Rock Users:
Suicide Leads:
Hazard Removal:
Choice Scarfed Users:
Priority:
Clerics / Wish Passers:
Trappers:
Fighting-Type Checks:
Fire-Type Checks:
Ground-Type Checks:
Setup Sweepers
Swords Dance:
Calm Mind:
Rock Polish / Agility:
Other Set Up:
Thats what I got so far. Probs missing stuff so feel free to wreck it over.
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Normal:
Wallbreakers:
Stallbreakers:
Pivots:
Offensive:
Defensive:
Rock Users:
Suicide Leads:
Hazard Removal:
Choice Scarfed Users:
Choice Specs Users:
Choice Band Users:
Priority:
Clerics / Wish Passers:
Trappers:
Fighting-Type Checks:
Setup Sweepers:
Swords Dance:
Calm Mind:
Nasty Plot:
Rock Polish / Agility:
Baton Pass Everything:
Wallbreakers:
Stallbreakers:
Pivots:
Offensive:
Defensive:
Rock Users:
Suicide Leads:
Hazard Removal:
Choice Scarfed Users:
Choice Specs Users:
Choice Band Users:
Priority:
Clerics / Wish Passers:
Trappers:
Fighting-Type Checks:
Setup Sweepers:
Swords Dance:
Calm Mind:
Nasty Plot:
Rock Polish / Agility:
Baton Pass Everything:
[Edit] Editted from Arken's stuff.
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Hey guys! The Role Compendium is now complete! :D
Thanks everyone that helped I really couldn't have done it without you. This took a while to complete but were finally there.
... but wait, there's more! (sorry for that)
To those of you that wanted to participate but all the types were taken, there is more to do! Feel free to go over the role compendium and post here about things that should be added and things that should be deleted!
Thanks everyone that helped I really couldn't have done it without you. This took a while to complete but were finally there.
... but wait, there's more! (sorry for that)
To those of you that wanted to participate but all the types were taken, there is more to do! Feel free to go over the role compendium and post here about things that should be added and things that should be deleted!
Nice! Got around to filling this out all around. I've got a some suggestions for the compendium that I think should be considered. I've left 7 and 8 in italics because they're not as clear cut as my other suggestionsIll reserve steel. I should be able to get it done by tomorrow night.
here it is:
Steel:
Wallbreakers:
Stallbreakers:
Pivots
Offensive:
Defensive:
Rock Users:
Suicide Leads:
Hazard Removal:
Choice Scarfed Users:
Priority:
Clerics / Wish Passers:
Trappers:
Fighting-Type Checks:
Fire-Type Checks:
Ground-Type Checks:
Setup Sweepers
Swords Dance:
Calm Mind:
Rock Polish / Agility:
Other Set Up:
(Hone claws)(Curse)(Curse)(Iron Defense)
Thats what I got so far. Probs missing stuff so feel free to wreck it over.
- Wallbreaker:
@ Specs hurt quite a bit, though there are a lot of good special walls, so they sometimes fails to net the 2HKO.
- Pivots (offensive):
@ Band/Scarf w/ U-turn(lol Gen V sets) deserves mention. I'm curious about what Heatran and Doublade. I was thinking Cobalion w/ Volt Switch fitting in, but I don't think it's threatening enough. Not sure if it should be included.
- Pivots (defensive):
stick out right away, but Empoleon, Registeel, and Bronzong can go in here too.
- Suicide Leads:
should probably go under here with Explosion + TR. On that note, Metagross, Steelix, and Registeel can do the same, but generally do not function that way. I'll leave it up to you whether or not those should be added.
- Priority:
Shadow Sneak and Extreme Speed respectively. I don't know if Mawile's Sucker Punch and Empoleon's Aqua Jet deserve mention.
- Trappers:
Magnet Pull!
- Fighting-Type checks:
It's tanky and is usually the late-game sweeper vs. Fighting teams with Bullet Punch.
- Fire-type checks:
You can actually call me crazy at this point. Magnezone @ scarf offers great pressure and Bisharp can be a late game cleaner/sweeper. Bisharp can scare out Pokemon with Sucker Punch and SD on that to sweep supposing you've disposed of Infernape (which Magnezone can help with) and Torkoal (SR helps there). Am I insane?
Swords Dance:
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[20:49:25] jiggleNormal:
Wallbreakers:
Stallbreakers:
Pivots:
Offensive:
Defensive:
Rock Users:
Suicide Leads:
Hazard Removal:
Choice Scarfed Users:
Choice Specs Users:
Choice Band Users:
Priority:
Clerics / Wish Passers:
Trappers:
None
Fighting-Type Checks:
Setup Sweepers:
Swords Dance:
Calm Mind:
Nasty Plot:
Rock Polish / Agility:
Baton Pass Everything:
:can you check>Well, all you had to do was ask. Sure!
- Wallbreakers:
Reckless + Choice Band destroys souls.
with Choice Band.
with Guts can be powerful. Does
with Sheer Force and Choice Band/Life Orb count? Lol
- Stallbreaker: I don't think Diggersby and Staraptor pass as Stallbreakers, but
with Trick arguably could.
- Rock Users:
works like Chansey.
Kek... I mean.. I've seen it.
- Hazard Removal:
I mean.. Rapid Spin and Defog. Kind of? I've used it before as filler, not quite certain though.
- Choice Scarf Users:
I know you wouldn't, but it's viable!
- Choice Specs Users:
This works with Specs too!
- Choice Band users:
Power. Add
if you added it under Wallbreakers.
- Priority:
with Quick Attack.
with Sucker Punch.
I swear I'm not meme-ing you, but it has Sucker Punch and Shadow Sneak. I'll leave out Bibarel.
- Trappers:
with Pursuit.
- Set Up Sweepers (Calm Mind):
Hate this thing when I use Dragons.
- (EDIT) Cleric:
Last ditch attempt with Healing Wish.
- (EDIT#2) Set Up (Curse):
:^)
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I don't really agree with Sandslash under swords dance or really on their at all because of how outclassed it is by Excadrill and the fact it's not very bisbleWallbreakers:
Stallbreakers:
Pivots:
Offensive:
Defensive:
Rock Setters:
Suicide Leads:
Hazard Removal:
Scarfers:
Priority:
Cleric:
Trappers:
Water-Type Checks:
Grass-Type Checks:
Ice-Type Checks:
Set-Up Sweepers:
Swords Dance:
Dragon Dance:
Rock Polish:
Calm Mind:
Curse:
Coil:
As Ant said, if I'm missing anything let me know, and I'll add it to this.
On Psychic: Cresselia isn't really a suicide lead because it just doesn't die that easily, lead or no. Metagross can go under priority users, and Mega Alakazam is a stall breaker w/175 spa + CM not to mention encore and psyshock and stuff. I'm confused on why sigilyph is in other setup and not CM, but if cosmic power isn't unviable garbage for whatever reason then ignore me. Also a quick description next to each mon in other setup to clarify would be nice, it's extra work but ik other role compendiums have it to clarify. Like you could specify what I'm assuming is Acid Armor reuni (unless otr counts as setup) so it's not at first confusing as to why reuni is under other and calm mind.
You're missing Togekiss under Nasty Plot users, and presumably stallbreakers since that's the role NP Toge fulfills.Flying:
Wallbreakers:
Stallbreakers:
Pivots:
Offensive:
Defensive:
Rock Users:
Suicide Leads:
Hazard Removal:
Choice Scarfed Users:
Priority:
Clerics / Wish Passers:
Trappers:
Ice-Type Checks:
Electric-Type Checks:
Rock-Type Checks:
Setup Sweepers:
Dragon Dance:
Swords Dance:
Calm Mind:
Nasty Plot:
Rock Polish / Agility:
Hone Claws:
If I'm missing anything, just put it in or tell me. One thing I'm not too sure about is if Zapdos / Togekiss would be an Ice check. It technically is, because it can tank a move and threaten it out, but its typing doesn't make it neutral.
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Confluxx [Old]
Banned deucer.
Wallbreakers:
Stallbreakers:
N/A
Pivots:
Offensive:
Defensive:
Hazards:
Stealth Rock:
(all Rock types get Stealth Rock, didn't list them all)
Sticky Webs:
Spikes/Toxic Spikes:
Suicide Leads:
Hazard Removal:
(Rapid Spin)
(Defog)
Choice Scarfed Users:
Priority:
(Aqua Jet)
(Sucker Punch)
(Quick Attack)
Clerics / Wish Passers:
N/A
Trappers:
(Pursuit)
(Magnet Pull)
Fighting-Type Checks:
Grass-Type Checks:
Ground-Type Checks:
Water-Type Checks:
Steel-Type Checks:
Setup Sweepers:
Swords Dance:
Calm Mind:
Nasty Plot:
N/A
Rock Polish / Agility:
Other Set Up:
(Dragon Dance)
(Shell Smash)
(Curse)
(Hone Claws)
Stallbreakers:
N/A
Pivots:
Offensive:
Defensive:
Hazards:
Stealth Rock:
Sticky Webs:
Spikes/Toxic Spikes:
Suicide Leads:
Hazard Removal:
Choice Scarfed Users:
Priority:
Clerics / Wish Passers:
N/A
Trappers:
Fighting-Type Checks:
Grass-Type Checks:
Ground-Type Checks:
Water-Type Checks:
Steel-Type Checks:
Setup Sweepers:
Swords Dance:
Calm Mind:
Nasty Plot:
N/A
Rock Polish / Agility:
Other Set Up:
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Seo.
Nice guys always finish last...
to be fair, u cant always rely on sticky webs to come threw, ur gonna be in situations where its gonna be taken off their field, and not everyone tends to run shuckle on their team. QA isnt really a thing, no, but atleast people can use it if they need to expose to priority but i agree with u on this one, not really a good choice, as for magcargo, i just added it cuz its in the "shell smash" section of the role compendium, but it does have a 8.2% usage, sure it isnt THAT viable but at least its still usable to an extent
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Water-Type Checks:
Hazard Removal:
(defog)(not exactly optimal but should be listed)
Choice Scarfed Users:
Ground-Type Checks:
Hazard Removal:
Choice Scarfed Users:
Ground-Type Checks:
Fire-Type Checks:
Flying-Type Checks:
Ice-Type Checks:
Bug-Type Checks:
Priority Users:
Wallbreakers:
Swords Dance:
Other Set Up:
Suicide Leads:
Flying-Type Checks:
Ice-Type Checks:
Bug-Type Checks:
Priority Users:
Wallbreakers:
Swords Dance:
Other Set Up:
Suicide Leads:
Hazard setters:
(stealth rock)
(spikes)
(toxic spikes)
Suicide Leads:
(take out keldeo smh)
Choice Scarf Users:
Electric-Type Checks:
Hazard Removal:
Priority:
Weather Setters/Abusers:
Dragon Dance:
Other Set Up:
Suicide Leads:
(take out keldeo smh)
Choice Scarf Users:
Electric-Type Checks:
Hazard Removal:
Priority:
Weather Setters/Abusers:
Dragon Dance:
Other Set Up:
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Confluxx [Old]
Banned deucer.
Rimz is right, Choice Scarf Terrakion is definitely an option on Rock, pretty sure I actually put it on there but must've accidentally pressed backspace and removed the icon.
As for Magcargo not being viable, I just put all Rock types on this whether they're viable or not. I was debating if I should add Magcargo as Grass check because its very slow, takes neutral from Grass and is x4 weak to Ground which means even Cradily can take it on. It is a Fire type tho so maybe it should still be listed as a Grass check.
Didn't think of the priority mons you listed, good job Rimz.
As for Magcargo not being viable, I just put all Rock types on this whether they're viable or not. I was debating if I should add Magcargo as Grass check because its very slow, takes neutral from Grass and is x4 weak to Ground which means even Cradily can take it on. It is a Fire type tho so maybe it should still be listed as a Grass check.
Didn't think of the priority mons you listed, good job Rimz.
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