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Most Generation PRNG Help / Information
- Thread starter mingot
- Start date
Oh, they definately use the same RNG, all of them.
I just need to check that the initial seed is still generated the same way in the US version. And, really, it's probably a mistake on my part but I am eliminating all things that be "going wrong".
And it's about time someone figured out that using save states in the "other" games along with finding a seed is a great way to abuse those, too.
AND
that number was the seed :) Any chance of getting that JP program to help with the initial seed?
EDIT: I am thinking of doing an interim release of rng reporter with the ivs->seed finder. if course the initial seed finder will be broken, but at lease folks without the jp app would be able to find seeds to test stuff.
EDIT: Ok, I tested my seeding algorithm against the initial seeding information page and it matched perfectly. So, I am beginning to think that formula is busted. I decided to play around with the link Jonny gave:
http://pokem.client.jp/seed.htm
And got to a page called seed.
That looks just like my programs seeding page (not surprising it's for doing the same exact thing).
I will be investigating THIS and trying to find out what the deal is with seed creation.
Er, hrm the output matches. And matches mine. What. The. Fuck.
LOL -- OK found the bug on my end, I think. I am consistently getting godd initial seeds now. Offsets seem to always be around 50 or 60 frames and the delay seems to be right over 600 every time. Going to run about 5 or 6 more tests and if I keep getting good results I'm going to assume I have a decent seed finder. Did more tests and it looks good. Even played around with varying the time spent on the continue screen to see if that calculated right and it looks good.
I thought of that, too; but I think that's going too far, and should be classed as hacking. I'm not too happy with Negator's Latis either, but at least with Emerald, the seed can actually be found without hacking the game (i.e. always starts at 0)...
ok... some stuff i worked out on the pid manipulation at the day care.
FIrst off you have to save a game in the grass and with the poketech app no5 activated.
As soon as the game starts don't have to move a single step and use the move sweet scent...catch a wild pokemon check ivs and nature. Put these two infos in the JP program to determine the seed. Now you should be able (with the very same program) to "inverse-seed" the RNG to get back to the very initial seed wich is different from the seed used to generate the pokemon because some seeds are consumed by sweet scent and other actions that are not completely clear to me at this point. If you don't use any poketech app the IRN is equal to this initial seed while the normal RN is moving forward, this mean you have the starting IRN.
the same program also generates the shiny PIDS according to your ID and SID and the number of seeds you need to consume to move from the initial IRN to the IRN you need to make the egg at the day care shiny. Once you have this number divide it by (2*number of pokemon in your party) and the integer you get is the number of times you have to touch the pad of the DS in the app No6 MINUS 1. this is very important because one touch is automatically accounted when you go from app no5 to app no6 in the poketech. The reminder of the division is the number of times you have to flip the coin. after doing this you have adjusted your IRN properly and no matter how many steps you take or how much time passes, if you get a egg from the day care it will be shiny.
I hope someone works out how to use the JP program to have the inverse-seed operation
FIrst off you have to save a game in the grass and with the poketech app no5 activated.
As soon as the game starts don't have to move a single step and use the move sweet scent...catch a wild pokemon check ivs and nature. Put these two infos in the JP program to determine the seed. Now you should be able (with the very same program) to "inverse-seed" the RNG to get back to the very initial seed wich is different from the seed used to generate the pokemon because some seeds are consumed by sweet scent and other actions that are not completely clear to me at this point. If you don't use any poketech app the IRN is equal to this initial seed while the normal RN is moving forward, this mean you have the starting IRN.
the same program also generates the shiny PIDS according to your ID and SID and the number of seeds you need to consume to move from the initial IRN to the IRN you need to make the egg at the day care shiny. Once you have this number divide it by (2*number of pokemon in your party) and the integer you get is the number of times you have to touch the pad of the DS in the app No6 MINUS 1. this is very important because one touch is automatically accounted when you go from app no5 to app no6 in the poketech. The reminder of the division is the number of times you have to flip the coin. after doing this you have adjusted your IRN properly and no matter how many steps you take or how much time passes, if you get a egg from the day care it will be shiny.
I hope someone works out how to use the JP program to have the inverse-seed operation
WOW, so if I understand it correct, the Time doesn't matter on the Eggs? All we have is scent a pokémon get the Seed, enter the ID,SID, then use the Poketch, and then you'll get a shiny egg, am I correct?
you're correct. the steps are :
- Scent a pokemon , determine its ivs and nature
- calculate its PID and the SEED that generated it
- from this SEED you go back to the initial SEED (this is what I'm investigating now)
-once you have the initial seed you can adjust it with the poketech and have a shiny egg
- Scent a pokemon , determine its ivs and nature
- calculate its PID and the SEED that generated it
- from this SEED you go back to the initial SEED (this is what I'm investigating now)
-once you have the initial seed you can adjust it with the poketech and have a shiny egg
Interim release of rngreporter!
http://www.eggmove.com/RNGReporter/RNGReporter_210.zip
Click box next to seed for seed finder.
Just use bottom finder part.
Click "initial" that seems to match in grid and then OK.
Will answer q's have better instructions in a few, have to run for a bit.
http://www.eggmove.com/RNGReporter/RNGReporter_210.zip
Click box next to seed for seed finder.
Just use bottom finder part.
Click "initial" that seems to match in grid and then OK.
Will answer q's have better instructions in a few, have to run for a bit.
By the way, this was actually mentioned in Junichi Masuda's blog, so it's likely to be true. However, it means you can't use Everstone to pass natures.
you don't even need it since your manipulating the seed.
@Vlie : the ivs are determined by the normal RN which goes forward because of the actions in the game. In the article it is said that also the villagers movements affect this RN. i.e. when a villager turns and starts moving seeds are also consumed. by the way you can save before the egg and it will always stay shiny.
If we want to manipulate the ivs of the eggs we need to find how the seeds for the NRN are consumed. there is a list in the article that I'm in the process of translating
About the foreign parents thing. From what I understand, having two parents from different nations changes the Shiny probability from 1/8192 to 1/2048. Therefore, when you have foreign parents, you have to use the Poketech Apps less often, so the shiny comes quicker. I could be mistaken though.
EDIT:
Curently fooling around with http://pokem.client.jp/seed.swf to see what I can get.
EDIT:
Curently fooling around with http://pokem.client.jp/seed.swf to see what I can get.
Chances are it's either going to run on the incubator or wild RNG so once that is figured out all you need to do is seed and find a decent spread that you like via rngreporter/emloop and get it, I think.
One of your articles laid out the inheritance and it's the same as 3rd gen it appears so I think that stuff is going to "just work".
@ Pink -- with the new seed finder in rngreporter you might be able to start researching now.
Even if the probability for a shiny egg is increased by using parents from different regions, you still would have to contend with another obstacle, since you can no longer pass natures using an Everstone.
Alright. Well, I'm a newb to all this, so could you give me a little guidance Mingot? I know how to generate the seed from rngreporter, but which one should I use? And then from there, I'm just lost on how to get the Initial Seed so I can find the Shiny spreds to lock in for the old man >.>
Cosmic: But since we can use the RNG like we did in Emerald and just wait a certain amount of time, we don't really even need the Everstone. It just would have helped make it so we didn't have to be as precise. Oh, and the thing is... The Shiny egg is locked when you save in fron of the man when he's holding an egg. You then can SR that egg and it will always be shiny.
Cosmic: But since we can use the RNG like we did in Emerald and just wait a certain amount of time, we don't really even need the Everstone. It just would have helped make it so we didn't have to be as precise. Oh, and the thing is... The Shiny egg is locked when you save in fron of the man when he's holding an egg. You then can SR that egg and it will always be shiny.
Ok, here is the general idea --
You want to note the year, month, day, hour, and minute when you start your game.
Catch a pokemon immediately,
And then plug in all of that information to the bottom part of the seed finder in 2.10,
That will give you a list. Look for one that is "Initial" and has an offset of 50-100 and a delay of around 600. Click it.
Then click OK.
That will populate your initial seed and you can generate.
After this, assuming you have eggs in daycare, you can screw around with seeing how poketech apps affect how many positions you advance in the list that you got.
You want to note the year, month, day, hour, and minute when you start your game.
Catch a pokemon immediately,
And then plug in all of that information to the bottom part of the seed finder in 2.10,
That will give you a list. Look for one that is "Initial" and has an offset of 50-100 and a delay of around 600. Click it.
Then click OK.
That will populate your initial seed and you can generate.
After this, assuming you have eggs in daycare, you can screw around with seeing how poketech apps affect how many positions you advance in the list that you got.
Wow, I just started reading this thread for the first time and it seems difficult to me. I really got confused with the starting frames and seeds etc.
Also, it's not really clear to me what you should or shouldn't do when manipulating the RNG for shiny eggs/wild pokemon.
Can someone please clear things up for me in a small summary? ^^
Also, it's not really clear to me what you should or shouldn't do when manipulating the RNG for shiny eggs/wild pokemon.
Can someone please clear things up for me in a small summary? ^^
But isn't the Poketech only used for advancing the seeds so we can get a Shiny? From what Jonny was saying, isn't the egg's shinyness dependant upon the Seed, because it uses the Incubation RNG but the IVs and stuff are dependant upon the Normal RNG, so that's the amount of time before taking the Egg?
You still need to find your initial seed, though, and catching a pokemon is probably the easiest way to do that at this point. Once you find your initial seed you can start working with the poketech and taken eggs to see if you can reliably advance the incubation RNG in a predictable manner.
EDIT: I could definately write a PID->Seed application, but checking the PID of an egg while Platinum is actually running would be a problem. So for now, catching a pokemon is probably best.
EDIT: I could definately write a PID->Seed application, but checking the PID of an egg while Platinum is actually running would be a problem. So for now, catching a pokemon is probably best.
Yeah, well I have my seed. [B60F049E]
WE don;t know how to use the Japanese app to generate shiny spreads, right? Otherwise it seems like it's going to be very hit or miss, but I'll get started on this still.
Oh, can I use my seed to get a spread for say, Azelf, then SR on it, and adjust the time until I get it?
EDIT: No, I can't right? Cause walking after I catch the Pokemon and check the SEED will advance the RNG and yeah... That wouldn't work. But, I could just SR azelf with a spread in mind and just change the time on the DS until I got toward it. I'll do the Egg and SR thing tonight. I gotta go for now and be a good boyfriend. (My girlfriend is here right now and I'm ignoring her.)
WE don;t know how to use the Japanese app to generate shiny spreads, right? Otherwise it seems like it's going to be very hit or miss, but I'll get started on this still.
Oh, can I use my seed to get a spread for say, Azelf, then SR on it, and adjust the time until I get it?
EDIT: No, I can't right? Cause walking after I catch the Pokemon and check the SEED will advance the RNG and yeah... That wouldn't work. But, I could just SR azelf with a spread in mind and just change the time on the DS until I got toward it. I'll do the Egg and SR thing tonight. I gotta go for now and be a good boyfriend. (My girlfriend is here right now and I'm ignoring her.)
Well, once you seed with that number you can definately plug in your ID/SID and find your shiny spreads along that chain. Just regenerate with "Shiny Only" Checked.
For the azelf thing --- your seed chance each time you SR unless you time the seconds/delay correctly. Work researching how that timing works would also be helpful.
I appreciate that you want to get a shiny egg today, but it might be more helpful if you were to just reset, find starting seed, and get 5 or 6 eggs and see if you can find the PIDS on the list and what affects the "seed consumption" and how.
For the azelf thing --- your seed chance each time you SR unless you time the seconds/delay correctly. Work researching how that timing works would also be helpful.
I appreciate that you want to get a shiny egg today, but it might be more helpful if you were to just reset, find starting seed, and get 5 or 6 eggs and see if you can find the PIDS on the list and what affects the "seed consumption" and how.