The discord server is linked in the first post! Please join us https://discord.gg/v2DzTQPjhpIs there a discord server? if not is there interest in the creation and moderation of one?
Idk how I did not see it LMAO MBThe discord server is linked in the first post! Please join us https://discord.gg/v2DzTQPjhp
Tier 1 | |
Tier 2 | |
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Pokemon | Archetype | Checks | Counters |
| Bulky Attacker | | |
| Strong Attacker | | |
| Fast Attacker | | |
| Strong Attacker | | |
| Fast Attacker | | |
| Fast Attacker | | |
| Trick Room Attacker | | |
| Fast Attacker | | |
| Trick Room Attacker | | don't let them Trick Room. |
| Strong Attacker | | |
| Fast Attacker | | it does die i guess |
| Strong Attacker | | |
ok I read itA Simple, Extensive Guide to ND DOU OffenseAs most of you might know, Offense is by far one of the strongest playstyles in NatDex Doubles, but abusing this Offense can be a bit more delicate than other tiers Offense archetypes. Since the tier is so strong it is not that easy for Offense to remain offensive without losing hard to something specific, so I am gonna go over how to structure an offensive team without it falling apart to Kingambit.
The essential part of an offense team is the offensive pokemon you use to define your team. These pokemon make your team offensive, and generally your builds surround around supporting these high damage output Pokemon.
PART 1: POKEMON TO USE
The Offense
Kartana is a more utilitarian offensive addition, while having the most amount of attack in 181 base and having access to Beast Boost, one of its main selling points is the fact that it can set Tailwind while being so offensively threatening. While the Steel typing doesn't give it much offensively, Kartana can defensively invest to live things like Mega Salamence Hyper Voice or Iron Bundle Freeze Dry due to its already insane Attack stat. In fact, a Kartana with 232 SpDef to live Life Orb Iron Bundle Freeze Dry still has more Attack than an Adamant Max Attack Urshifu-Rapid-Strike. Kartana can also use a more offensive Substitute + Z-Move set to put more pressure on the opposing team and deal massive damage versus checks like Tornadus and Jirachi.
With a jaw-dropping damage output and bulk, near universal coverage, and the option to delete anything from existence using Steel Roller, Mega Metagross is one of the better offensive Pokemon due to its sheer amount of stats. Iron Head deals massive damage to everything that is not a resist, Stomping Tantrum hits common Steel-resists like Kingambit and Volcanion, Thunder Punch makes Urshifu-RS and Mega-Charizard-Y sad, and Bullet Punch can be used to pick off things late-game and deal massive amounts of damage to Flutter Mane and Chien-Pao. Steel Roller is the aforementioned other option, while not being as consistent of a damage dealer, Steel Roller Metagross has the very nice option of completely obliterating neutrals and less bulky resists.
The quintessential offensive pokemon. It's incredible Water/Fighting STAB combo coupled with the sheer brokenness of Unseen Fist and Surging Strikes off of base 130 Attack. With being hard to check and very hard to play around with all of these traits combined, Urshifu-RS is an incredible Pokemon to have on your offensive team. Water Bear has two main sets it can use, the very popular Choice Scarf set, and a bulkier Adamant Mystic Water set. Choice Scarf is stellar into opposing Offense, outspeeding everything at neutral bar Booster Energy Speed Flutter Mane and Deoxys-Speed, and Mystic Water is better into more Balancey structures and Trick Room due to its significantly higher damage output and ability to Protect versus Fake Out.
Marshadow's incredible offensive Ghost/Fighting STAB combo with a nice yet awkward speed tier and Spectral Thief make it a premier attacker and a very strong threat. The ability to Tera Ghost makes it very strong every setup attacker aside from Swords Dance Kingambit. Aside from the anti-sweeping abilities, Marshadow is an incredibly threatening pokemon due to its ability to hit everything in the tier at least neutrally, having Technician Shadow Sneak, and its Fake Out immunity. Marshadow's main counterplay is outpositioning, due to this, you want to deal as much damage as you can with Marshadow. Due to this, Life Orb and Marshadium Z are the main sets, both of which running Spectral Thief, Close Combat, and Shadow Sneak.
Even though its not as broken as it is in SV DOU due to the omnipresence of other Ghosts and Urshifu-RS being a better Water-type attacker, Basculegion is still an extremely threatening late-game sweeper due to the sheer power of Last Respects. Even though its a demanding sweeper, TailRoom structures (Offense structures consisting of a Trick Room setter and a Tailwind setter) can make Assault Vest Basculegion work extremely well. Gaining Flip Turn has also helped it massively, giving it an actual last move to click early game when it cannot OHKO everyone and their mothers. As mentioned before its main set is Assault Vest to let it tank hits when clicking Last Respects. Choice Scarf can also be used but it is mostly a lesser Urshifu-RS due to its lower speed and lower power and oppressiveness early game.
If Urshifu-RS is the quintessential Tailwind Bear, Ursaluna is the quintessential Trick Room Bear. Ursaluna has unparalleled damage output and massive bulk letting it live big attacks such as Urshifu-RS Aqua Jet and Rillaboom Grassy Glide even at -1. Normal/Ground is also awesome offensively for a mon as strong as Ursaluna due to the most meta relevant resist to both of those being Tier 5 Celesteela. It is one of the only Trick Room attackers who can force a kill even in a bad matchup if you position correctly, since it has the theoretical ability to OHKO every non-Celesteela target after it gets Guts activated even without Tera. Ursaluna's set is very straightforward, Facade, Single Target Ground STAB, Protect, and whatever you want as last, whether it be Substitute to protect it from Fake Out, Swords Dance to further enhance damage output and punish switches, or even double Ground STAB just in case you don't want a Defense drop.
Chi-Yu's Beads of Ruin makes it a potent breaker, dealing massive damage even to Fire resists. This combined with Sun makes Chi-Yu the most nuclear Special breaker in the tier, the moment you can give Chi-Yu a speed advantage it will apply a ton of pressure. The Fire/Dark is also surprisingly nice defensively for a strong pokemon, as Chi-Yu resists Grassy Glide, Shadow Sneak, and Sucker Punch. Chi-Yu's ability does not only boost itself, it can also boost other teammates to absurdity, such as Flutter Mane, Mega Gardevoir, or Iron Bundle. Chi-Yu can run a good range of sets, the most splashable is Choice Scarf due to the immediate speed advantage it gives. Choice Specs can make Chi-Yu by far the strongest breaker in the tier while Life Orb gives it the option to switch between the combination of Heat Wave, Overheat, and Dark Pulse while also being able to Protect, and lastly Assault Vest gives Chi-Yu actually decent bulk while still being really strong.
Ogerpon-H is the physically oriented version of Chi-Yu, as it is also an absurd Sun breaker that can 2HKO most things after Tera. It is also faster than Chi-Yu and unlike it, it can also get boosted by the other ruin, Chien-Pao. All these attributes make Ogerpon-H a potent breaker. Although it is a bit Tera reliant on getting a lot of damage done and Grass + Fire while nice has a few important things it cannot hit, notably Dragons like Mega Salamence and Fires like Incineroar. Ogerpon-H can also act like an offensive redirector for Sun so it's other attackers have an easier time versus strong attackers such as Flutter Mane, Mega Metagross, and Ursaluna. Ogerpon-H can also use a Substitute set so it cannot get Intimidated or Faked Out.
Could not bring myself to close out this section without mentioning one of the best special attackers we have had in any format, Flutter Mane. Ghost/Fairy combo on a Pokemon that strong and fast simply is not fair, being Fake Out immune and hitting everything neutrally aside from nonexistent types like Normal/Poison. Its fraility starts to not be a factor when you realize this thing only really needs to outspeed Mega Salamence, and does ridiculous damage even without maximum investment. Living something like a Mega Metagross Bullet Punch or a Chien-Pao Ice Spinner goes a long way when Flutter Mane is this strong and threatening.
The BulkAs much as the pure offense makes up the offensive team structure, the bulky mons are what holds Offense together and make it a playable teamstyle.
This pokemon is nothing short of incredible when it comes to patching up Offense's weakness to itself, with sheer bulk and absurd power coupled with the very nice Steel/Dark typing and the Defiant ability to abuse glues like Mega Salamence, Incineroar, and Landorus-Therian. With few actual weaknesses and Sucker Punch off of 135 base attack, Kingambit is a bulky mon that can be used in Offense that is also very good into opposing Offense. While the more common Assault Vest takes on more of a bulky role that takes on most of the meta off of sheer bulk, Kingambit can also be really offensively threatening with a Swords Dance Black Glasses set, threatening to do a lot of damage on soft checks like Choice Scarf Urshifu-RS and Chi-Yu.
A Fire/Water with Water Absorb and that much bulk is simply too good defensively. Being one of the sole consistent Flutter Mane checks even under Sun makes it a great defensive piece for Offense. It makes great progress versus fatter structures due to the sheer damage output of Steam Eruption and its physical bulk. Assault Vest and Substitute + Leftovers are both good options for Volcanion. Assault Vest makes it the most consistent check to Sun and makes it live very strong special attacks like Mega Gardevoir's Expanding Force. Substitute + Leftovers exerts more offensive pressure due to making Volcanion immune to Fake Out and make it live attacks it isn't supposed to, like Iron Hands' Wild Charge or Landorus-T Stomping Tantrum. Leftovers is especially nice when Rillaboom is so dominant, as Volcanion can get enough HP for another Substitute every other turn.
Being one of the only safe switch-ins to Choice Scarf Urshifu-RS makes Tapu Fini a valuable bulky piece in offensive teams. Calm Mind Tapu Fini can simply win games in the absence of Rillaboom and Support Fini is excellent at role compressing in more setup heavy offenses featuring pokemon such as Zygarde and Kingambit. Tapu Fini's bulk also lets it live extremely strong attacks like Sword of Ruin boosted Mega Salamence Double-Edge making Tapu Fini a nice defensive piece to have.
Being by far the most consistent answer to Marshadow, Lando-T finds itself in a wide niche where it can use a wide variety of sets to answer or kill different things. Choice Scarf sets are more damage and pivotting based, while also being able to soft check Mega Metagross and Mega Salamence. Stealth Rock is by far the most used and splashable set, Lando-T is a very consistent Stealth Rock setter while also being offensively threatening with 145 base attack Stomping Tantrum or Supersonic Skystrike.
While a nicher, more passive pick; Cresselia bolsters a lot of bulk and one of the best supporting moves ever in the form of Lunar Blessing. Cresselia is able to take on neutrals due to its massive bulk and supports its teammate with speed control in the form of Trick Room, Icy Wind, or Thunder Wave. Cresselia also has a wide attacking movepool, having coverage moves that hit common weaknesses of setup Pokemon such as Ice Beam for Zygarde or Moonblast for Chien-Pao. Lunar Blessing is a must have for any Cresselia set, but rest of the set is pretty customizable according to your structure.
Mega Scizor has the incredible niche of being a Steel type that always threatens to OHKO Flutter Mane. It also has incredible physical bulk and can invest in its HP due to Technician letting its main STAB be Bullet Punch. It matches super well into Chien-Pao, Rillaboom, and Flutter Mane, and has just enough bulk to live two Surging Strikes from Choice Scarf Urshifu-RS. Swords Dance is a very threatening bulky wincon due to its natural bulk letting it set up multiple times throughout a game. Pivot Mega Scizor takes advantage of how common the things it switches into are and keeps the momentum going, giving room for your own fast breakers like Flutter Mane or Marshadow.
Dragon/Ground is incredible on a mon with that much bulk and the ability to Tera on top of having STAB spread attacks with no immunities and a setup move that boosts its speed in the form of Dragon Dance. These combined make Zygarde the most fearsome setup sweeper and also the most slappable one. Tera Fire or Tera Normal Dragon Dance Zygarde is stupidly bulky with few actual checks and can setup by itself without much extra support, because its Ground-type STAB threatens out bulkier foes such as Kingambit, Volcanion, Iron Hands, Mega Metagross, and Jirachi. As mentioned Dragon Dance is by far the most used set, but Choice Band is also a usable set that has more immediate power while bolstering similarly absurd bulk.
With the bulk expected from a Box-Art legendary, Kyurem-Black is a very diverse and very fun pokemon with various sets that all make it leverage its insane stats, specifically its bulk and 170 base attack. Due to its stats it can 1v1 neutrals very easily, and being able to Tera gives Kyurem-Black so much value. It can check Mega Salamence and Zygarde, while being able to do extremely well into Rillaboom, Volcanion, and the genies naturally. Kyurem-Black has two main, polar opposite sets, in Dragon Dance and Assault Vest. Dragon Dance with Clear Amulet is an extremely good sweeper with its only real issue being that it is a single targetting sweeper. Assault Vest gives it even more bulk and puts Kyurem-Black in the more bulky attacker/supporter role, running moves like Icy Wind and Dragon Tail.
Well I was talking about the sheer bulk of Kyurem-Black and all that right? Since it is a Box-Art legendary? Well Iron Hands' bulk is EVEN higher. With the downright ridiculous 154 HP stat paired with solid defenses you would be very lucky to OHKO Iron Hands, even an Ursaluna has a chance to not ohko 0/0 Iron Hands with a simple Intimidate, not to even mention it living Max SpA Modest Flutter Mane Moonblast with just an Assault Vest and has the ability to OHKO it with Heavy Slam. Assault Vest is the main set, as it gives Iron Hands more bulk and lets it run all 4 attacks which it absolutely likes, as with Fake Out and dual STABs there, it wants to run all 3 of Volt Switch, Heavy Slam, and Ice Punch last. Swords Dance is also a very threatening bulky sweeper with the ability to run a lot of sets, since it only really needs the moves Swords Dance and Drain Punch.
The Support: Offensive EditionThis is where most of what makes an Offense core good happens, the supports to the offensives. But who said good supports couldn't be offensive?
As one of the best supports in an offensive team, is also offensive itself. Mega Salamence takes big advantage of the scarcity of Flying resists as it is the strongest Flying-type in the format. It also has some crucial resistances, letting it soft check bulkier Urshifu and Volcanion and hard counter Rillaboom. With dynamic speed carrying over from Sword and Shield, the base 120 Speed Tailwind is very crucial to get your Offense up and going versus other offensive structures as outspeeding stuff is very important to not lose your damage trades. As mentioned, Tailwind is its main set, but Mega Salamence also has a neat trait of being a Physical Attacker that is not too threatened by Intimidate, as it can simply run a mixed set with Hyper Voice.
Tornadus is similar to Mega Salamence in many ways, a Flying-type Tailwind setter. But Tornadus trades a lot of defensive utility for Prankster Tailwind and weather moves, and the ability to run a Covert Cloak or Flyinium Z. Prankster Tailwind is as good as ever and Tornadus takes full advantage of this due to being a more offensively inclined pokemon and gaining the nice spread move Bleakwind Storm this gen. As mentioned, Tornadus' one and only really good set is Tailwind, but it has some options for its last slot. Most Tornadus opt out to more supportive options like Taunt, Sunny Day, or Rain Dance but a more offensive approach with Heat Wave to hit Jirachi and Mega Metagross is also an option to consider.
Rillaboom is just everything you want from a Doubles pokemon, bundled up into a package with a good BST and stat spread, very good bulk, the unique and near essential Grass-typing, quite literally unmatchable terrain and position control, a very strong STAB and a relatively strong priority move at 55 bp. Rillaboom is just about what you need and theres very very little reason to ever not use it. Even though its sheer popularity pushes its hard counters to popularity too, the sheer amount of partners it pairs up super well with is simply unparalleled, including setup attackers, Chien-Pao, and even something as simple as AV Kingambit or Volcanion. While Assault Vest is the main and by far best set on Rillaboom, its spreads are quite customizable depending on the type of role you want Rillaboom to partake in. More Hyper Offense-like structures may just prefer a maximized Attack stat while bulkier Offenses might want a bulkier Rillaboom to take hits from Flutter Mane or Urshifu-RS a little bit better.
Mega Kangaskhan is sort of weird when it comes to the Offensive Support category, it doesn't seem like it has much stats or typing to shine in a format as strong as NatDex Doubles, but its role as an Offensive Support is sort of unmatched. Normal-type is entirely unique to Mega Kangaskhan giving it an immunity to Flutter Mane's Ghost-type attacks and making it neutral to most of the metagame aside from the Fighting-types. This neutrality to the metagame is very useful as having little weaknesses lets it abuse Parental Bond Seismic Toss, 2HKOing 90% of the metagame aside from Ghost-types and bulkier Kyurem-Black, and Mega Kangaskhan can run Sucker Punch or Shadow Claw for Ghost-types. It's main set is Fake Out with high bulk investment as it does not need any attack invest to deal massive damage.
By far one of the most offensively threatening support. Sun is usually viewed as the playstyle where Chi-Yu and Flutter Mane dominate, but never count out Mega Charizard Y. It has a very high Special Attack stat with Sun also boosting its Heat Waves to ridiculous levels. It also has Helping Hand and Tailwind whenever it doesn't need to attack or needs to boost its teammates to give them a little bit more damage output. The Fire/Flying typing also gives it a nice matchup into Mega Metagross and Mega Scizor, which Flutter Mane appreciates. Mega Charizard can either lean into more damage with its good coverage in Solar Beam or Scorching Sands for Urshifu-RS and Tapu Fini, or Volcanion and Incineroar. Or it can use a more supportive set using Helping Hand, Tailwind, and Heat Wave or Overheat.
Rock/Fairy while not seeming like anything special, gives Mega Diancie a really nice niche of being a Trick Room setter that counters both Chien-Pao and Mega Salamence. Diamond Storm is also very strong into the meta, Diamond Storm + Body Press being a very nasty combo, letting it have a single target option to OHKO would be Diamond Storm answers like Urshifu-RS in a pinch. Being able to Tera Grass out of the Rillaboom, Urshifu-RS, and Spore weakness is also a massive buff to Diancie letting it more consistently kill stuff and set Trick Room. Diancie's only set is the aforementioned Offensive Trick Room setter with Diamond Storm Body Press Trick Room and Protect. The item choice is team dependant, but my favourite picks are Weakness Policy to punish Aqua Jets and Grassy Glides, Hard Stone to boost Diamond Storm's power even more, or a terrain seed to get Diancie going earlier.
Chien-Pao is especially good as a support in this format due to the sheer strength of physical attackers in the form of Mega Salamence, Urshifu-RS, Mega Metagross, Rillaboom, Marshadow, and Kartana just to give more popular examples. Chien-Pao also has a nice combo of Ice/Dark/Fighting that threatens Mega Salamence, Kingambit, and Zygarde due to its very high speed tier in 135. Chien-Pao has two main sets that solely run different items but it changes the playstyle of Chien-Pao drastically. Focus Sash is the most common choice, letting Chien-Pao stay on the field for one more extra turn to get more turns of Sword of Ruin. Meanwhile Life Orb takes more advantage of its damage by itself since 135 speed with that coverage is no joke, with Life Orb Tera Dark doing massive damage to would be checks like Volcanion.
The Support: Bulky EditionThe more traditional supports are still very much so still existent and help your offense structures a lot in backbone building.
Jirachi's good bulk with Steel-typing already makes it decently valuable, but Follow Me makes it an outstanding support to some of the strongest pokemon in the tier, such as Dragon Dance Zygarde and Mystic Water Urshifu-RS. Jirachi has a good matchup versus a good portion of the tier, including but not limited to: Mega Salamence, Rillaboom, Sucker Punch Chien-Pao, Choice Specs Flutter Mane, and even Kyurem-Black. Jirachi's spreads vary through teams but its sets are pretty straight forward, it runs Follow Me, Iron Head, Protect, and as last move it can choose from Encore, Trick Room, or Life Dew.
With 660 BST, the highest Speed in the metagame versus unboosted targets, and all the support moves a mon could ask for, Zamazenta is a competitor to one of the best support pokemon in the tier. The combination of incredible speed, good bulk, Coaching, Snarl, and Wide Guard, and being able to counter Kingambit and Chien-Pao, makes Zamazenta a good defensive piece for Physical Offense as this playstyle tends to be weak to a lot of stuff Zamazenta annoys. Zamazenta can really run any combination of utility + Fighting STAB (Body Press or Close Combat) + random coverage like Play Rough or Heavy Slam.
Even though the meta is super hostile to Incineroar, it finds a place as it has the three most essential tools in a bulkier support, in the form of Intimidate, Fake Out, and pivotting. These attributes and the fact that it is the hardest counter to Chien-Pao and Rillaboom, which are very common in general and with eachother. Intimidate also can be used to dissuade the damage from Mega Salamence and Knock Off can cripple Flutter Mane, Zygarde, and Zamazenta. Incineroar's main use case is utilizing its entire support kit, with Fake Out, Knock Off, Flare Blitz, and pivotting move depending on its item.
Prankster Tailwind and Encore are very annoying and very good supporting options especially in this offensive meta, giving Whimsicott a place. Covert Cloak is a nice addition for Whimsicott to run out of Hyper Offense, making it immune to Fake Out and making it be able to run bulkier sets without Protect more freely. Whimsicott only really needs Tailwind and an attacking move, the rest of the set could realistically be anything, from Encore to Fake Tears to even a weather move like Sunny Day.
Gothitelle is in a weird place, Fake Out + Shadow Tag in this meta is ultra broken and enables stupid attackers like Urshifu-RS even further, but it is also kinda frail with only a Pure Psychic-typing and is hard to fit due to that fact. Due to its typing it has very low defensive utility aside from its broken combination of moves, but this makes it more usable. Gothitelle needs to use Fake Out, Psychic, and Protect; and can choose from Taunt, Helping Hand, Trick Room, and Hypnosis.
Amoonguss is one of the lesser redirectors, but it shines due to its good matchup into Fighting-types such as Urshifu-RS and Marshadow and having the very broken support move in Pollen Puff. These attributes make it useful on Trick Room teams and setup teams, due to their inherent weakness to specifically Marshadow and Urshifu-RS. Amoonguss runs a standard moveset of Spore, Pollen Puff, Rage Powder; with a filler move such as Protect, Clear Smog, or Leaf Storm.
Indeedee-F has the unique combination of terrain control + Follow Me, which makes it a nice pokemon to have in certain structures. Psychic Surge enables faster, frailer mons even further; and cripples Rillaboom and Electric Terrain teams. Psychic/Normal isn't that bad, having an immunity to Ghost is nice against Marshadow, Flutter Mane, and Basculegion. Indeedee runs a moveset of Follow Me, Expanding Force, and Protect paired with Helping Hand, Trick Room, or Heal Pulse with Safety Goggles, Sitrus Berry, or even Eject Button.
Politoed is the best rain setter, as it is the one with the most bulk which helps it answer Urshifu-RS and Chi-Yu. Eject Button lets its teammates make the most of Rain, and Helping Hand is enough to boost your rain abusers power to absurdity. An Eject Button set with Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Helping Hand +1 whether it be Toxic or Encore or something simple like Protect.
Mew's gimmick of knowing every TM ever makes its support pool more like a support pacific ocean. Fake Out, Tailwind, Trick Room, Stealth Rock, Spikes, Snarl, Will-O-Wisp, Pollen Puff, and Coaching just to name a few. This makes Mew be able to role compress a lot of things into one slot, which is a cool niche on more setup heavy Offense teams. Any combination of these important support moves paired with an attacking move works great on Mew.
By far the bulkiest Trick Room setter, Porygon2, is sadly not that good in this format, but it is definitely usable in more Trick Room reliant Offenses. The bulk and neutrality to a lot of the tier gives it a decent matchup into a lot of less strong attackers, especially those of which you are hit by BoltBeam. Porygon2 should be only used if you're sure your Trick Room structure is stable into Fighting-types, as it overlaps weaknesses with Diancie, Ursaluna, Kingambit, and Stakataka. Porygon2 uses Ice Beam Thunderbolt Trick Room Recover to keep Trick Room up consistently.
And here is a VR for Offense mons if you wanted more clarity on their usability:
NOTE: that this is only ranked for their usability and viability in OFFENSE
Tier 1 Tier 2 Tier 3 Tier 4 Tier 5
PART 2: COUNTERS TO COMMON OFFENSE KILLERSNow onto the important part. The main point of making this post was due to the amount of good players bringing offensive structures that completely fall apart versus the most common Offense Killers, so I felt like there should be some sort of explanation on what to use to not die to opposing Offense or Offense Killers.
Pokemon Archetype Checks Counters Bulky Attacker Strong Attacker Fast Attacker Strong Attacker Fast Attacker Fast Attacker Trick Room Attacker Fast Attacker Trick Room Attacker don't let them Trick Room. Strong Attacker Fast Attacker it does die i guess Strong Attacker
Kingambit is by far one of the easiest pokemon for offense to randomly lose to, for good reason. With outstanding bulk and power combined with its Steel-typing and STAB Sucker Punch is already enough, but it also has a great matchup chart and has Defiant to punish Mega Salamence, Incineroar, and Tornadus.
COUNTERPLAY IN BUILDER:
Kingambit has a few soft checks like Sacred Sword Chien-Pao, Chi-Yu, and bulky Zygarde, as listed above. Zamazenta is one of the hardest counters to Kingambit, due to Dauntless Shield and the ability to use Coaching on teammates to make them stronger into Kingambit and even threaten to damage Tera Fairy sets with Heavy Slam. Iron Hands is the hardest counter to Kingambit due to Fake Out preventing any setup or side targetting and naturally resisting both STABs while being very bulky, bulky enough to easily live Tera Fairy Blast.
COUNTERPLAY ON THE GO:
Kingambit's very bad speed in 50 makes it very prone to getting worn down by strong attackers, especially those of which who can face tank Sucker Punch with ease. Not ignoring Kingambit's presence and attacking is the best way to not lose to Kingambit. Also never have two Pokemon out that both severely lose to Kingambit at once, you do not want it to get a free attack off or a Swords Dance. Kingambit usually likes to be out on the field with Mega Salamence and Volcanion which patch up its weaknesses to Zygarde, Chien-Pao, Urshifu-RS and Zamazenta. If you can force out these common teammates, Kingambit becomes way less threatening.
While being one of the main supports of Offense itself, its also a weakness for Offense, due to how much it boosts the opponents damage output, it makes it very hard to deal with Chien-Pao.
COUNTERPLAY IN BUILDER:
Chien-Pao by itself is not that hard to check, it has many checks in the form of Volcanion, Urshifu, Diancie, Iron Hands, which can tank hits from even Life Orb Chien-Pao. And there is also Zamazenta, Incineroar, and Tapu Fini, which hard counter with their respective traits. Incineroar has Intimidate, which hinders both Chien-Pao and its partner greatly. Zamazenta can use Coaching to boost up a teammates Defense so it becomes less weak to Chien-Pao. Tapu Fini resists everything Chien-Pao could throw at it and sets up on it with Calm Mind.
COUNTERPLAY ON THE GO:
Chien-Pao needs to stay on the field for its teammates to get the damage amp, so the best way of dealing with Chien-Pao is making it be threatened into switching out. Speed control and Fake Out work wonders at making Chien-Pao's user forfeit the Sword of Ruin boost. All forms of Intimidate also work super well, even base Salamence can hinder Chien-Pao a lot with proper play even though it is slower than it and is weak to Ice.
Urshifu-RS circumvents the main counterplay to strong physical threats such as itself with the Ability Unseen Fists and Surging Strikes being a guaranteed critical hit. This paired with its good offense type combo in Water/Fighting, make it a very good Pokemon against Offense which is hard to outplay.
COUNTERPLAY IN THE BUILDER:
Urshifu-RS has ok counterplay in the builder, many things resist Water and threaten Urshifu-RS decently. Rillaboom and Volcanion are the most common examples of decent checks as they force Scarf Urshifu-RS to use Close Combat. Mega Salamence, Tapu Fini, Amoonguss, Dragonite all resist both of its STAB moves while being able to kill it.
COUNTERPLAY ON THE GO:
The main problematic part of Urshifu-RS is actually playing against it. It has two sets with completely different counterplay which don't really show themselves until they have claimed value, for example Mystic Water runs bulk and is able to 3HKO Tapu Fini after Tera, and Choice Scarf carries Ice Punch for Mega Salamence. Urshifu-RS is similar in a way to Kingambit, it is slower than a lot of other threats so just hitting it usually works best. Having Fake Out active and Chien-Pao out of the field also works decently, as Fake Out is the only consistent way of circumventing damage from Urshifu and Chien-Pao helps Urshifu's matchup chart a lot and gives it a huge boost with Sword of Ruin. It is also advised to not give the team with Urshifu a speed advantage, as that makes it OHKO would be offensive checks such as Flutter Mane, due to outspeeding it.
Flutter Mane's 135 base speed and Ghost/Fairy typing make it a very scary breaker for Offense to deal with while bolstering decent bulk and very good Special Attack.
COUNTERPLAY IN THE BUILDER:
Flutter Mane by itself is not hard to check in the builder. Most of the bulkier Darks and Steels answer it well. Mega Kangaskhan and Kingambit are the most splashable and consistent counters, and some semi bulky stuff like Calm Mind Tapu Fini, Mega Tyranitar, Assault Vest Incineroar, and Ursaluna can do a decent job checking it.
COUNTERPLAY ON THE GO:
Flutter Mane can be hard to threaten out due to its speed tier and immunity to Fake Out, making Choice Specs annoying to deal with. But Flutter Mane's lackluster Physical Bulk makes it prone to getting OHKOd by stronger physical threats such as Rillaboom, Urshifu-RS, and Mega Salamence. While it also really likes to Tera Fairy to get rid of its neutrality to Kingambit's Dark-type attacks, this makes it weak to Fake Out, which hurts its pressure on the field. Flutter Mane also suffers from opponent's speed control, due to not having the best physical bulk and high but not extremely high speed.
Diancie is the most prominent Trick Room attacker that can set up Trick Room for itself and boost its defense and damage output with Diamond Storm and Body Press.
COUNTERPLAY IN THE BUILDER:
Diancie's Rock/Fairy typing is defensively unique but makes it weak to common types such as Water- Grass- Ground- and Steel-type attacks, which makes it pretty Tera reliant to fully kill Offense or set Trick Room. Urshifu-RS, Zamazenta, Rillaboom, and Mega Metagross are common checks to Diancie which can face tank all its attacks and OHKO it back.
COUNTERPLAY ON THE GO:
Trick Room is very annoying to deal with for Offense, especially on a pokemon like which can be prevented by correct pivoting play and the use of Fake Out to position your breakers versus Diancie. And also Diancie is not that strong before getting Defense boosts to boost Body Press or activating Weakness Policy, so it is weak to bulky attackers who have the capability of OHKOing Diancie, such as Urshifu-RS and Mega Metagross.
Mega Metagross is the physically bulkiest strong attacker, while having 145 attack with Tough Claws and 110 Speed and the very good combo of Iron Head, Stomping Tantrum, and Thunder Punch.
COUNTERPLAY IN THE BUILDER:
Due to its extremely high damage output and very good coverage, few pokemon actually switch into Mega Metagross sufficiently. Iron Hands, Mega Scizor, and Volcanion are physically bulky Steel-resists that threaten Mega Metagross decently. Its best counters are Kingambit and Incineroar. Kingambit is a Steel-resist that is capable of threatening a KO on Mega Metagross with two Sucker Punches, and Incineroar can Intimidate Mega Metagross down after it Megas.
COUNTERPLAY ON THE GO:
Mega Metagross faces similar issues with Kingambit without getting Tera, it is very prone to just getting hit. As good as the Steel-typing is, that paired with Psychic gives it a ton of weaknesses to common types such as Fire, Ground, Dark, and Ghost. This makes it weak to bulkier or faster threats packing these typing, such as Zygarde, Chien-Pao, Gholdengo, and Flutter Mane. Mega Metagross is also very reliant on speed control, not letting Mega Metagross' side use Tailwind is pretty big in the matchup as to hinder its ability to 1v1 your pokemon.
Being by far the most threatening Trick Room attackers with Guts STAB Facade paired with Ground-type STAB, Ursaluna is extremely potent into Offense the moment Trick Room goes up.
COUNTERPLAY IN THE BUILDER:
Ursaluna doesn't have actual counters to account for it in the builder. Its that straight forward. Landorus-T and Salamence pre mega can spam Intimidate on it to lower its damage output and Celesteela only gets 3HKOed by Ursaluna, so they do relatively fine.
COUNTERPLAY ON THE GO:
Ursaluna is nowhere as strong without Trick Room on the field, so against Ursaluna your top priority should be not letting them set up Trick Room (not at all times, Coaching Zamazenta makes most pokemon be able to take a hit or two from Ursaluna and Urshifu-RS threatens an OHKO on Ursaluna always). Positioning is key to not lose to Ursaluna, as in Trick Room, you need to outplay and outcycle your opponent very hard to leave the Trick Room unscathed. Fake Out, Follow Me, Taunt, and priority attacks such as Sucker Punch, Aqua Jet, and Grassy Glide all do fine to chip down on Ursaluna and kill it.
Chi-Yu has the highest damage output of anything that has a decent speed tier, due to its ability Beads of Ruin and good offensive type combination in Fire/Dark.
COUNTERPLAY IN THE BUILDER:
Luckily, we have a good variety of Fire and Dark resists, most of which threaten Chi-Yu to some capacity, ranging from Iron Hands using Fake Out or Drain Punch on it, Mega Salamence setting Tailwind on it, or Tapu Fini using the turns to spam Calm Mind. Zamazenta can use Wide Guard to completely nullify Heat Wave's damage output too. But do keep in mind, you at all times need 2 Chi-Yu checks, as Heat Wave does bonkers damage on anything that can't be considered a check. Mega Tyranitar is by far the hardest counter, with massive bulk even before gaining Sand's 1.5x SpDef boost, and the ability to replace Sun which is the main thing that makes Chi-Yu an Offense killer in the first place.
COUNTERPLAY ON THE GO:
Positioning versus Chi-Yu is hard due to its high damage output, if you have a not so great matchup against it, Chi-Yu is decently easily dealt with the moment you have a speed advantage and the opponent doesn't due to Chi-Yu's lackluster defensive profile on the physical side. Trick Room, Prankster Tailwind, Choice Scarf Pokemon, and generally faster pokemon threaten out Chi-Yu with relative ease if it isn't Scarfed. A lot of Protects is also a must have against Chi-Yu as while bringing in your check you don't want it to randomly get Specs Overheated under Sun, so Protect is good for scouting and getting your checks in on the field to get Chi-Yu off the field.
With phenomenal STAB in Ghost/Fighting and access to the broken move Spectral Thief, Marshadow is a real menace to a lot of Offenses, specifically ones slightly on the slower side or ones more focused on setting up.
COUNTERPLAY IN THE BUILDER:
Much like Ursaluna, Marshadow's counterplay is very limited. Ghost/Fighting has no relevant resists and Spectral Thief means you can't boost your defense past Marshadow. This means the best counterplay to Marshadow that actually works is the Flying-type Intimidators, Salamence and Landorus-T. Support Tapu Fini and Choice Scarf Tapu Fini are also decentish checks to Marshadow.
COUNTERPLAY ON THE GO:
Marshadow is very frail and doesn't resist most priority attacks and most attacks from faster pokemon, making it vulnerable to faster threats. Marshadow is also a lot weaker than most of the other strong breakers such as Mega Salamence, Mega Metagross, Urshifu-RS, and Ogerpon-H. In most cases, Marshadow cannot OHKO neutrals due to this comparative lack of power, especially seen in the lesser Marshadium Z and Clear Amulet sets. Continously threatening Marshadow also helps a lot since then it cannot attack as much as it would want to, whether this be Tailwind, Trick Room, faster pokemon, or strong priority attacks. Positioning versus Marshadow is more crucial than versus most other breakers due to the combined traits of high speed, priority move, unresisted STABs, and underwhelming power; so redirection is also a good way to dissuade Marshadow for some time.
Due to the potential of having the highest damage output in the tier, Ogerpon-H can be hard for Offense teams to switch into if they cannot overwhelm it.
COUNTERPLAY IN THE BUILDER:
Ogerpon-H, while being very strong, does not lack checks. Grass/Fire STAB is checked decently well by Dragonite and Kommo-O, and is pretty hard countered by Mega Salamence and Incineroar due to Intimidate and Mega Salamence having access to Tailwind and Incineroar having access to Fake Out both of which also help teammates against Ogerpon-H. Aside from these, bulkier Zygarde and Chi-Yu do a decent job at taking a hit and then dealing good damage versus Ogerpon-H.
COUNTERPLAY ON THE GO:
Like most strong pokemon in the tier, Ogerpon-H is hard to position versus, making Protect and Fake Out really good for positioning and scouting against it. Due to Ogerpon-H being normally outsped by its checks, best way of going about preventing it from going nuts is preventing the opponent from outpositioning you, whether it be getting a better Fake Out in or setting up Tailwind. Forcing your opponent to Tera something else also severely cuts into Ogerpon-H's damage output due to Tera normally doubling the damage of Ivy Cudgel. Ogerpon-H is also frail, much like Marshadow. It will fall apart to most strong attacks even if they are neutral.
short answer: badi'd want to know what's the general opinion about hard trick room here.
Semiroom teams are typically those that have a "fast mode" and a "slow mode". This typically involves just one trick room setter and one slow offensive pokemon, one or two fast pokemon (possibly with tailwind), and the remaining can swing either way or function well in either mode. The idea is that if you match up against a fast team (like tailwind offense) you can set trick room to secure the speed advantage, and if you match up into a slow team you can deny opposing trick room or outspeed them and win. Versatility is key with this style of team, which is why mons like Rillaboom are often seen on semiroom (its priority Grassy Glide means it can function well in both trick room and tailwind, and its fake out allows you to safely set up your speed control).Wdym semi tr? 3 setters 3 abusers? Cause this format works very well With me. Yknow, 50% of technical problems are due to what's between the compter and the chair. that's Why only 15% of my teams are actually viable.