Tournament National Dex World Cup IV - Format Discussion Thread

[R8]

Epic art by Kolohe

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FIRST OF ALL, FILL THIS GOOGLE FORM

This is the thread to discuss the format of the upcoming worldcup! For reference, those are the formats used in the past NDWC and NDPL:

NDWC III:

SV ND OU
SV NDOU
SV NDOU
SV NDOU
SS NDOU
SS NDOU
SV NDUBERS
SV NDMONO

NDPL:

SV NDOU
SV NDOU
SV NDOU
SS NDOU
SS NDOU
SV NDUU
SV NDRU
SV NDUBERS
SV NDMONO
SV ND DOU

All the listed metagames above are eligible.

Last NDWC also followed a format with two groups of teams fighting in round robin into playoffs. While this isn't the main focus of this thread, you can express your opinion about it here if you believe the tour should opt for an other format. In general, any and all discussions regarding the execution of WC can go here. Post away!

NDWC III Format discussion thread
NDPL IV Format discussion thread

 

[Nashrock]

8 slots:
SV ND OU
SV NDOU
SV NDOU
SV NDOU
SS NDOU
SS NDOU
SV NDUBERS
SV ND DOU

10 slots: 8 slots + mono + uu

 

[hi.naming is hard]

I like 10, it's a cool number
SV NDOU
SV NDOU
SV NDOU
SV NDOU
SV NDUU
SS NDOU
SS NDOU
SV NDUBERS
SV NDMONO
SV ND DOU

 

[Runo]

The idea of all OU has been suggested and I think it's ok but I personally find the concept to be kinda stale. I like lesser tiers like Monotype, DOU, and Lower Tiers getting representation and all of them are perfectly stable (even RU just got a major tier shift and it geniunely doesn't seem awful, hell it probably frees up things in the builder since you don't have to deal with Latias or Scizor). Obviously finding players for every region to fill those slots is a challenge and I can respect excluding lower tiers for that reason, but please don't use the "they're not good / unbalanced metas" excuse because that's just not the case anymore.

Ideally, just keep the same format as last year. More than enough SV and SS OU slots to go around. Mono is pretty popular so I don't think it should have issues with players and Ubers is not hard to pick up at all so previous Ubers players (esp those coming from SM / NDAG) should be able to get a feel for it pretty fast in theory. I did hear that people wanted to exclude Mono because it has too much representation or some other lame excuse to add more OU slots. What if instead of that boring idea we add DOU instead? Very balanced tier and I'm fairly sure that teams should have no issues finding players. The slot can be insular but honestly at what point does that just become your own fault (What is stopping you from getting a DOU familiar sub or helper)?

Overall I don't really care about the format (except all SV OU, I will vomit if that happens) but I think repeating last years format or replacing Mono / Ubers for DOU is cool.

edit: I like Nashrock's and HNIH's 10 slot plans. Let's go UU!!!

 

[sealoo]

For each of the following slot numbers, here would be my votes:

• 8 Slots: 4 SV OU + 2 SS OU + 1 DOU/Ubers (favor DOU slightly) + 1 NDM (bka onon’s idea is also nice and id support it)
  
  
• 9 Slots: 4 SV OU + 2 SS OU + 1 DOU + 1 Ubers + 1 NDM
  
  
• 10 Slots: 5 SV OU + 2 SS OU + 1 DOU + 1 Ubers + 1 NDM (the ones proposed by nash & gewwge also work here)
  
  Personally, I am a VERY big advocate of the 9 Slot format I'm proposing here. If you opt for an 8 slot tour, you'll have 4 SV OU and 2 SS OU pretty much guaranteed as it is undeniably the perfect amount of each in any non-mono OU format. This leaves you with 2 slots to fill and 3 tiers (DOU/Ubers/NDM) to be included, which doesn't work out for one of the tiers. 10 tiers could hypothetically do this as well, but it ends up requiring another unnecessary OU slot to be added to balance out. The solution? 9 slots instead!
  
  The only thing an even slot tour preserves as opposed to an odd number is tiebreaks, which I will admit are quite hype, but are they worth cutting an entire pool out of the tier to keep? Surely not for tiers that have historically attracted solid performers from across the site to play them in NDWC & NDPL alike.
  
  8 and 10 slots are fine, but I'd strongly recommend more discussion about the prospect of 9 slots!

would probably require some reconstruction to the pools system for a 9 slot tour, and if this isnt gonna happen then id go for 8 slots

 

[Bka Onon]

SV NDOU
SV NDOU
SV NDOU
SS NDOU
SS NDOU
SV NDUbers
SV NDDOU
SV NDMonotype

Keep the slots same as last year just swap out 1 SVOU slot for DOU because it has been getting so much traction and adds variety in an otherwise singles only tour
That's it, that's the post okay have a good day people

 

[TTK]

10 slots for me, I think everyone in the entire of Natdex wants to see their tier being played in the second biggest team tour of the circuit. The only format I could see having some issue of players is DOU but every other tier should be somewhat secured. Dropping Mono is not the wave and yeah, I always want the highest possible amount of formats to get their representation. Thanks.

 

[Nashrock]

I want to echo on sealoo's idea of 9 slots. tbh I always think an odd number of slots is better since it avoids tierbreaks and here the 9 slots format looks decent to cover all popular formats

 

[hi.naming is hard]

I want to echo on sealoo's idea of 9 slots. tbh I always think an odd number of slots is better since it avoids tierbreaks and here the 9 slots format looks decent to cover all popular formats

tie breaker is very intriguing tho

 

[sealoo]

tie breaker is very intriguing tho... plus I think both nd Ubers and dou deserve to be represented on the stage

ND Ubers & NDDOU would both be in my proposed 9 slot format along with ND Mono unless Im misunderstanding what you mean here

 

[hi.naming is hard]

ND Ubers & NDDOU would both be in my proposed 9 slot format along with ND Mono unless Im misunderstanding what you mean here

apparently... I am blind

 

[Isza]

Keep the same format as last year, can't fix what isn't broken.

All SV is fair for everyone although doesnt sound enjoyable, wouldnt support that. The odd slot # rabbit hole has been considered numerous times in various team tours and was never used, shouldn't be now. Having no tiebreaks is also just super unviable.

Only format I'd entertain is 6SV+2SS, and even then the large number of sv slots seems undesirable. If it got picked I'd be ok with it over anything else at least.

For all format suggestions that have any other lower tiers but not monotype, I'd like to hear why you'd axe the most popular ND OM

 

[seth]

6sv2ss because I LOVE OU!!! If not then keep same format as last yr if it ain’t broke as they say also anything but 9 slots plz no tb is lame :b

- Harry B.

 

[ChrisPBacon]

how about we have 4 svou slots and then each team picks two tiers they would want to play from a pool of UU RU SS MONO UBER DOUBLE :clueless:

(last yrs format but with doubles > svou4, aka what bka onon said, this is the best balance imo between giving tiers representation and not being bad)

 

[Dead by Daylight]

Yo, some thoughts here.

1. Keep tiebreaks: 10 slots is my preference
While 8 slots, for me, is not very good seeing as it effectively shuts off a metagame from being played on a pretty big stage, 9 slots just completely removes the hype and drama of TBs and I don't see the harm in adding another SV OU slot to compensate for it.

These would be my slot picks:
SV OU
SV OU
SV OU
SV OU
SV OU / potentially SS OU
SS OU
SS OU
SV DOU
SV Ubers
SV NDM

2. Other Suggestions
We could potentially have a Grand Slam slot as well over one of the SV OU slots with a Bo3 consisting of SV OU / SS OU / an OT with the same pick rules as normal multi-tier Bo3s. I'd also love to see SV UU get a slot, but it's most likely not quite able to be here due to the amount of deserving OTs ahead of it as well as the SV slots. Perhaps one SV slot could be SV UU instead?

3. Why 9 Slots Is Not The Move
What I don't get is this passage:

Personally, I am a VERY big advocate of the 9 Slot format I'm proposing here. If you opt for an 8 slot tour, you'll have 4 SV OU and 2 SS OU pretty much guaranteed as it is undeniably the perfect amount of each in any non-mono OU format. This leaves you with 2 slots to fill and 3 tiers (DOU/Ubers/NDM) to be included, which doesn't work out for one of the tiers. 10 tiers could hypothetically do this as well, but it ends up requiring another unnecessary OU slot to be added to balance out. The solution? 9 slots instead!

I really don't see the harm in adding another OU slot - honestly it just seems like a net gain to me; while some countries may struggle to fill that slot, it gives opportunity for newer players who would otherwise not be able to play for their country.

would probably require some reconstruction to the pools system for a 9 slot tour, and if this isnt gonna happen then id go for 8 slots

This is also a pretty big negative point. Honestly, 9 slots just seems a bit contrived for the sake of having all OMs in the least amount of slots, but there's not much of a harm of another OU slot, nor does 10 slots require a restructuring of the pools system or the removal of highly hyped tiebreakers.

 

[red fintans]

either 9 or 10 slots but fs need to have all the official OMs cos theyre cool
sealoos stuff seems cool

 

[Daepiquejt]

Idk about the other formats but get nddou on here

 

[jus]

9 slots is pretty chill, literally everything sealoo said about it sounds like it works perfectly fine on paper. Wouldn't be opposed to seeing 10 slots either though

 

[hidin]

6 SV and 2 SS is the only format I like, I don't really care much about any tier in this tour besides the ones I mentioned, and they should be focused on in some way. Like we shouldn't have anything lower than 4 SV slots ever, and if we really feel like including other tiers just do ten slots with 6 SV 2 SS 1 DOU 1 Mono (more preferred), or the old line up with DOU > Ubers (less preferred). Also don't do 9 slots because ties aren't even a problem; if anything it helps teams out by giving them an option of getting better chances to be in playoffs, and removing that would be pretty bad and unnecessary. But as I said I would really prefer 6 SV 2 SS for eight slots or 6 SV 2 SS 1 DOU 1 Mono for ten slots. We could use some showcasing of SV OU (that people would care about) anyway because we could use some meta development (that people would care about) after doing so much with the tier and some more tournament activity (that people would care about) for the tier, and since its the main tier here it should be able to have as many slots as it wants, but not like too much because SS, DOU, and Mono should definitely be in. Not too big on Ubers or lower tiers being in, however.

Bolding the "that people would care about" things in my arguments above because this tour, as I said, is probably the tour that the community would care about the most right now.

 

[Miyoko]

I prefer 10 slots
SV ND OU
SV NDOU
SV NDOU
SV NDOU
SS NDOU
SS NDOU
SV ND UBERS
SV ND MONO
SV ND UU
SV ND RU / DOU
I like this format much more. Adding lower tiers increases the opportunity of good lower tier (slam) players. Mono and ubers have been common tiers since ethe beginning. DOU has been a good council since the beginning so keeping DOU can be good

 

[adem]

please do not do 10 slots LOL ur gna kill half the teams. it wld be tour suicide to use 10 ur gna make this shit unserious

8 slots, if u include ot u have to include mono thats a given, any suggestion with ot but without mono is unserious

9 slots is mickey too tiebreakers are fun and entertainting, its the worse of both worlds.

-unbiased spectator

 

[teamo]

I think we should include ndlc

 

[Dead by Daylight]

please do not do 10 slots LOL ur gna kill half the teams. it wld be tour suicide to use 10 ur gna make this shit unserious

8 slots, if u include ot u have to include mono thats a given, any suggestion with ot but without mono is unserious

9 slots is mickey too tiebreakers are fun and entertainting, its the worse of both worlds.

-unbiased spectator

brother you cannot enter this chat and then say all options are bad

 

[Slowpoke Fan]

I only oppose 5 SV OU formats, let's not oversaturate any format with one tier. My preference would be the NDPL format though , NDFL used a similar format and the extra free slot gave us very high quality SV OU games while having a variety of interesting formats that were incredibly fun to prepare for every week.

 

[1yr]

just keep the old wcop format its unnecessary to add stuff like doubles it just makes it harder for managers:(

plus the last wcop was so entertaining dont ruin it fr