NU Ninetales

boltsandbombers

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Taken over from Davon

Overview
########

Ninetales sets itself apart from other Fire-types in the tier with its excellent ability in Flash Fire and its ability to boost its Special Attack with Nasty Plot. Ninetales also has an excellent Speed stat that lets it outspeed or Speed tie with many offensive Pokemon, such as Typhlosion, Mesprit, Zangoose, Kangaskhan, Sawk, and Lilligant. Between its strong STAB moves and near-unresisted coverage movepool, Ninetales is a massive threat to common defensive cores in NU. Most notably, Ninetales's coverage moves hit common answers to Fire-types, such as Hariyama, Rhydon, and Seismitoad, for massive damage. Ninetales finds a solid spot on many playstyles, including bulky offense and balance, and it can even act as an effective win condition for stall teams, as well as having an excellent matchup versus common stall builds. Unfortunately, Ninetales's weaknesses to Stealth Rock and common attacking types such as Water, Rock, and Ground limit its ability to pivot throughout the match and find setup opportunities. In addition, only average stats overall leave Ninetales quite weak unboosted.

Nasty Plot
########
name: Nasty Plot
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Fire Blast / Flamethrower
move 3: Energy Ball
move 4: Will-O-Wisp / Psyshock
ability: Flash Fire
item: Leftovers / Life Orb
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
========

Nasty Plot boosts Ninetales's average Special Attack to excellent levels, allowing it to OHKO or severely dent common defensive Pokemon. The choice of STAB move depends on whether you prefer reliability or power; Fire Blast trades accuracy for higher power, while Flamethrower is more consistent. Energy Ball provides important coverage against bulky Water- and Ground-types such as Seismitoad, Prinplup, Rhydon, and Sandslash. Will-O-Wisp spreads residual damage and cripples physical attackers, particularly Hariyama and Archeops. Alternatively, Psyshock can be used to hit specially bulky Pokemon such as Hariyama, Mantine, and opposing Ninetales. Hidden Power Water specifically targets Mega Camerupt, which survives Ninetales's other attacks even if boosted and OHKOes in return with Earth Power, but requires a significant amount of prior damage on Camerupt to finish it off.

Set Details
========

The given EV spread and a Timid nature maximize Ninetales's power and Speed. Alternatively, a slightly bulkier spread of 112 HP / 252 SpA / 144 Spe hits a Leftovers number and lets Ninetales outspeed Timid Rotom-S, while a spread of 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe lets Ninetales outspeed positive-natured base 90 Speed Pokemon such as Lilligant and Kangaskhan. Leftovers is the preferred item to provide passive recovery while Ninetales sets up, but Life Orb is a solid choice for a significant boost in power. If Life Orb is chosen, Psyshock should always be used over Will-O-Wisp because a +2 Psyshock is a guaranteed OHKO on Hariyama, and Fire Blast should be used over Flamethrower for the greater damage output. However, Fire Blast should still be used alongside Leftovers due to how weak Flamethrower is without a boosting item. Passho Berry can be used to weaken a Water-type attack, particularly an Aqua Jet from the likes of Feraligatr and Samurott in an attempt to pick off a weakened Ninetales.

Usage Tips
========

Thanks to Flash Fire, Ninetales acts as a great pivot into Fire-type attacks from opposing Fire-types such as Typhlosion and Pyroar, as well as Will-O-Wisps from the likes of Weezing and Mismagius. However, it is important to keep Stealth Rock off the field, as it hinders Ninetales's ability to pivot. When using Leftovers, don't set up too early in the game; it is more beneficial to hit switch-ins with the appropriate coverage move or a Will-O-Wisp. Alternatively, if your opponent has a specially bulky Pokemon that is not hit super effectively by Ninetales's coverage moves, such as Audino, use Nasty Plot on the switch to break through it. Life Orb variants of Ninetales should play more aggressively; they should launch off powerful Fire Blasts early-game while still utilizing coverage moves on appropriate targets. Setting up Nasty Plot with Life Orb variants at the correct time is important, as Ninetales can be worn down very quickly between entry hazard damage and Life Orb recoil.

Team Options
========

Entry hazard removal is very important for Ninetales, so Pokemon such as Cryogonal, Swanna, Prinplup, Archeops, and Sandslash make for excellent teammates. Cryogonal appreciates Ninetales crippling Hariyama with Will-O-Wisp or battering it down with a powerful Life Orb-boosted Psyshock. Prinplup appreciates Ninetales's ability to pressure bulky Grass-types, particularly Vileplume. Pairing Ninetales with other strong Fire-types such as Pyroar and Typhlosion creates a powerful wallbreaking core, as Ninetales breaks down common Fire-type switch-ins such as Hariyama and Seismitoad. Due to the fact that Ninetales is severely crippled by Toxic Spikes, Poison-types such as Garbodor, Qwilfish, and Vileplume are helpful teammates to absorb Toxic Spikes. The last is a notable choice because, unlike the other two, it does not stack a Ground-type weakness. Water Absorb users and bulky Grass-types such as Seismitoad, Poliwrath, Gourgeist, and Vileplume make for good partners to check faster Water- and Rock-types.

Other Options
########

A set with Substitute and Calm Mind takes a slower and bulkier approach to setting up. Hidden Power Ground provides decent coverage with Ninetales's Fire-type attacks and hits Mega Camerupt, Probopass, and the obscure Bastiodon harder than any of its other moves. Air Balloon allows Ninetales to check Ground-types in a pinch, most notably Mega Camerupt.

Checks & Counters
########

**Entry Hazards**: Ninetales is easily worn down by Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and especially Stealth Rock.

**Faster Offensive Pokemon**: Archeops resists Ninetales's STAB moves, outspeeds it, and OHKOes with Earthquake, but it must be wary of Will-O-Wisp. Swellow can OHKO Ninetales with a Guts-boosted Facade but doesn't appreciate switching into a Flamethrower or Fire Blast. Faster Rock-, Water-, and Ground-types such as Simipour, Archeops, and Floatzel can check Ninetales fairly easily.

**Status**: Thunder Wave cripples Ninetales's sweeping potential by halving its Speed. Toxic wears down Ninetales very quickly because it needs a turn to boost.

**Offensive Water-types**: Water-types such as Feraligatr and Samurott can easily check Ninetales with Aqua Jet, as Ninetales has a poor Defense stat. Feraligatr and Samurott can easily survive an Energy Ball from full HP, but they cannot switch in safely. Naturally faster Water-types such as Floatlzel also check Ninetales. These Pokemon need to watch out for Passho Berry variants of Ninetales, though.

**Probopass**: Probopass doesn't take much damage from Ninetales's Fire-type attacks and can hit Ninetales with a super effective STAB Power Gem or cripple it with a status condition.

**Special Tanks**: Specially bulky Pokemon such as Mega Camerupt, Mantine, Flareon, and Piloswine can tank a hit and deal heavy damage back or cripple Ninetales with Toxic.
 
Last edited:

Deej Dy

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1. Mention Seismatoad, Wrath, other water absorber first as good teammates.
2. Mention /Substitute next to energy ball as an option for setting up on Twavers/toxicers/audino

Seems pretty solid besides that I'll reread more thoroughly later to verify for QC 1/3, but I need no other correction for now ;)
 

boltsandbombers

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1. Mention Seismatoad, Wrath, other water absorber first as good teammates.
2. Mention /Substitute next to energy ball as an option for setting up on Twavers/toxicers/audino

Seems pretty solid besides that I'll reread more thoroughly later to verify for QC 1/3, but I need no other correction for now ;)
I feel that sub is best at a moves mention like sg said, but if others can convince that it deserves to be slashed I'm ok with it. Will do the other stuff, thx.
 

Deej Dy

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Sub is just a beautiful move have vs mons like audino/carbink/tangela/ and essentially can win you the game with that 1 extra turn. It can have different EVs though with more bulk investment, I just thought it made sense since you stated status is one of the things that stops it in the "counters" section
 

boltsandbombers

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Yeah, I see where you're coming from. Personally, I've never deviated from NP / fire move / psyshock / energy ball because of how consistent it is; so I can't say whether or not sub is good in practice - just the fact you lose on coverage.
 

marilli

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If you have leftovers and flamethrower as first slashes, you should mention just generally bulky stuff as checks because they can live a hit and maul ninetales. +2 lefties flamethrower is definitely tankable with bulky offense stuff.

either that or you should make LO main slash which also sounds good tbh
 

Blast

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Shouldn't Wisp be slashed with Psyshock rather than EBall? Especially now that Dragalge is gone Psyshock really only has like one target, while EBall gets coverage on a much wider range of targets and Hariyama is worn down by Wisp anyway.

The points in the Overview are also really randomly ordered right now, it starts of with a con then makes a sudden shift to a pro, another pro, then a con and back to a pro lol
 

boltsandbombers

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Shouldn't Wisp be slashed with Psyshock rather than EBall? Especially now that Dragalge is gone Psyshock really only has like one target, while EBall gets coverage on a much wider range of targets and Hariyama is worn down by Wisp anyway.

The points in the Overview are also really randomly ordered right now, it starts of with a con then makes a sudden shift to a pro, another pro, then a con and back to a pro lol
Changed slashes and fixed overview.
 

ryan

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Passho Berry is probably worth a Set Details mention at best. It was a cool lure to Feraligatr back when that was on a ton of teams, but its popularity has died down a ton. There are really few other Aqua Jet users and faster Water-types in the tier, so I really don't think it's worth a slash.

I'd also probably slash Will-O-Wisp over Psyshock and switch the slashes on the items to correspond with that change. The only thing you're hitting with Psyshock is Hariyama, which you cripple with Will-O-Wisp anyways. Will-O-Wisp just has a lot more utility than Psyshock. Plus, a resisted Fire Blast does more to targets with neutral defenses than Psyshock, so it's not even good for neutral coverage.
 

boltsandbombers

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Passho Berry is probably worth a Set Details mention at best. It was a cool lure to Feraligatr back when that was on a ton of teams, but its popularity has died down a ton. There are really few other Aqua Jet users and faster Water-types in the tier, so I really don't think it's worth a slash.

I'd also probably slash Will-O-Wisp over Psyshock and switch the slashes on the items to correspond with that change. The only thing you're hitting with Psyshock is Hariyama, which you cripple with Will-O-Wisp anyways. Will-O-Wisp just has a lot more utility than Psyshock. Plus, a resisted Fire Blast does more to targets with neural defenses than Psyshock, so it's not even good for neutral coverage.
Done. Made flamethower and lefties first slash since I'm assuming lefties corresponds with wisp since LO is important for psyshock; that seems logical to me.
 

ryan

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Calm Mind in Other Options still seems fine. I'd probably run SubCM if I was going to go that route, so mention that specifically.

Change "Aqua Jet Water-types" to Offensive Water-types and just say those specific Pokemon can check it with Aqua Jet. You can also mention more obscure Water-types like Floatzel, which is naturally faster.

QC 1/3
 

scorpdestroyer

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you say Klinklang is a good switch-in to Hariyama and Seismitoad in team options, fix please :S

you can mention special tanks in Checks and Counters as they can live any hit and KO back. For example, you can mention stuff like Mega Camerupt and Mantine

QC 2/3 boltsandbombers
 

ryan

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Ninetales doesn't set itself apart from other Fire-types with its coverage or Will-O-Wisp because every other Fire-types gets at least all the coverage it does or better. Typhlosion runs the same coverage, Magmortar has better coverage, and Pyroar is bad. Ninetales sets itself apart strictly with Nasty Plot and Flash Fire. Last sentence of the Overview is also pure fluff.
 

boltsandbombers

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Ninetales doesn't set itself apart from other Fire-types with its coverage or Will-O-Wisp because every other Fire-types gets at least all the coverage it does or better. Typhlosion runs the same coverage, Magmortar has better coverage, and Pyroar is bad. Ninetales sets itself apart strictly with Nasty Plot and Flash Fire. Last sentence of the Overview is also pure fluff.
Yeah, the last sentence is fluff but I didn't want to end the overview on a negative tone. I'll fix that other thing, thx.
How does it look now? Wording might be a bit awkward but w/e
 

Ares

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Why does the overview only have 3 sentences? Talk about how its role in the meta is good and how its unresisted coverage is good for hitting many teams fire checks as well as the fact that it can tear apart stall and is also used as a wincon for stall. Add in other stuff as well, 3 sentences is way to few.
 

boltsandbombers

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Why does the overview only have 3 sentences? Talk about how its role in the meta is good and how its unresisted coverage is good for hitting many teams fire checks as well as the fact that it can tear apart stall and is also used as a wincon for stall. Add in other stuff as well, 3 sentences is way to few.
Alrighty, polished up the overview a bit. Is this better?
Also changed the set name to nasty plot.
 

Blast

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Fire Blast should really be first especially if Lefties is the main slash, Lefties Flamethrower is just so piss weak

QC 3/3
 
-- amcheck ahead --
add, remove, (comments), Capitalization​
Overview
########

Ninetales sets itself apart from other Fire-types in the tier with its has an excellent ability in Flash Fire and the ability to boost its Special Attack with Nasty Plot to boost its Special Attack to setup sweep. Ninetales has an excellent Speed stat that puts its Speed above, (AC) or ties level with many offensive Pokemon in the tier such as Typhlosion, Mesprit, Zangoose, Kangaskhan, Sawk, and Lilligant. Between its strong STAB moves and near unresisted coverage movepool, Ninetales is a massive threat to common defensive cores in NU. Most notably, Ninetales's coverage moves most notably hit common answers to Fire-types such as Hariyama, Rhydon, and Seismitoad for massive damage. Ninetales finds a solid spot on many playstyles such as bulky offense, balance, and even acting as an effective win condition for stall teams, as well as having an excellent matchup versus common stall builds. Unfortunately, Ninetales's weakness to Stealth Rock and common attacking types such as Water, Rock, and Ground limit its ability to pivot throughout the match and find setup opportunities. In addition, only average stats overall leave Ninetales quite weak unboosted.

Nasty Plot
########
name: Nasty Plot
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Fire Blast / Flamethrower
move 3: Energy Ball
move 4: Will-O-Wisp / Psyshock
ability: Flash Fire
item: Leftovers / Life Orb
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
========

Nasty Plot boosts Ninetales's average Special Attack to excellent levels, allowing to OHKO or severely dent common defensive Pokemon. The choice of STAB moves depends on the choice of reliability or power; in that (that what, though? "decision", perhaps?) Flamethrower is more reliable and consistent, while Fire Blast trades accuracy for higher power. Energy Ball provides important coverage on bulky Water- and Ground-types such as Seismitoad, Prinplup, Rhydon, and Sandslash. Will-O-Wisp spreads residual damage and cripples physical attackers, particularly Hariyama and Archeops. Alternatively, Psyshock can be used to hit specially bulky Pokemon such as Hariyama, Mantine, and opposing Ninetales. Hidden Power Water specifically targets Mega Camerupt, which lives a boosted attacks and OHKOs in return with Earth Power. (despite being specifically targeted, Mega Camerupt still isn't OHKOed by HP Water so that sentence seems a bit awkward especially when you mention Camerupt's ability to OHKO back with EP)

Set Details
========

The given EV spread and a Timid nature maximize Ninetales offensive power and Speed. Alternatively, a slightly bulkier spread of 112 HP / 252 SpA / 144 Spe hits a Leftovers number and outspeeds Timid Rotom-S, or. (added period) A spread of 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe which outpsspeeds positive natured base 90 Pokemon such as Lilligant and Kangaskhan can also be used. Leftovers is the preferred item to provide passive recovery while setting up, but Life Orb is a solid choice for a significant boost in power. If Life Orb is chosen, Psyshock should always be used over Will-O-Wisp because Psyshock is a guaranteed OHKO on Hariyama after a Nasty Plot, and Fire Blast should be used over Flamethrower for the greater damage output. However, Fire Blast should still be used alongside Leftovers due to how weak Flamethrower is without a boosting item. Lastly, Passho Berry weakens a Water-type attack, particularly an Aqua Jet from the likes of Feraligatr and Samurott in attempt to pick off a weakened Ninetales. (isn't that sentence meant to be in OO?)

Usage Tips
========

Thanks to Flash Fire, Ninetales acts as a great pivot into Fire-type attacks from opposing Fire-types such as Typhlosion and Pyroar, as well as Will-O-Wisps from the likes of Weezing and Mismagius. However, it is important to keep Stealth Rock off the field, as it hinders Ninetales's ability as a pivot. When using Leftovers Ninetales, (RC) don't (added apostrophe) set up too very (that change is subjective actually, so remove and not replace "too" if you like that better) early-game (hyphenated "early game"), and it is more beneficial to hit switch-ins with the appropriate coverage move or a Will-O-Wisp. Alternatively, if your opponent has a specially bulky Pokemon like Audino which is not hit super effectively by one of Ninetales's coverage moves, use Nasty Plot on the switch to break through it. Life Orb variants of Ninetales should play more aggressively, in that it and should launch off powerful Fire Blasts early game while still utilizing it's coverage moves for their appropriate targets. Setting up Nasty Plot with Life Orb variants at the correct time is important as it Ninetales can be worn down very quickly between entry hazards and Life Orb recoil.

Team Options
========

Entry hazard removal is very important for Ninetales, so Pokemon such as Cryogonal, Swanna, Prinplup, Archeops, and Sandslash make fore excellent teammates. Prinplup appreciates Ninetales's ability to pressure bulky Grass-types, particularly Vileplume. Cryogonal appreciates Ninetales crippling Hariyama with Will-O-Wisp or battering it down with a powerful Life Orb Psyshock. Pairing Ninetales with other strong Fire-types such as Pyroar and Typhlosion creates a powerful wallbreaking core due to how Ninetales breaks down common Fire-type switch-ins such as Hariyama and Seismitoad. Due to the fact that Ninetales is severely crippled by Toxic Spikes, Poison-types such as Garbodor, Qwilfish, and Vileplume is are helpful to have as a teammate to absorb Toxic Spikes. The latter is a notable choice because unlike the other two, it does not stack a Ground-type weakness. Water-type absorbers and bulky Grass-type such as Seismitoad, Poliwrath, Gourgeist, and Vileplume make for good partners to check faster Water- and Rock-types.

Other Options
########

A set with Substitute and Calm Mind is a slower and bulkier approach to setting up. Hidden Power Ground provides decent coverage with Ninetales's Fire-type attacks and hits Mega Camerupt, Probopass and the obscure Bastiodon harder than any of its other moves. Air Balloon allows Ninetales to check Ground-types in a pinch, most notably Mega Camerupt.

Checks & Counters
########

**Entry Hazards**: Ninetales is easily worn down by Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and especially Stealth Rock.

**Faster Offensive Pokémon**: Archeops outspeeds and OHKO'es (replace apostrophe with an "e") Ninetales with Earthquake and resists while resisting Ninetales's STAB moves, but must be wary of Will-O-Wisp. Swellow can OHKO with a Toxic-boosted Façade, but doesn't (add apostrophe) appreciate switching into a Flamethrower or Fire Blast. Faster Rock-, Water-, and Ground-types can check Ninetales fairly easily.

**Status**: Thunder Wave cripples Ninetales's sweeping potential by halving its Speed. Toxic wears down Ninetales very quickly because it needs a turn to boost.

**Offensive Water-types**: Pokemon like Feraligatr and Samurott can easily check Ninetales with Aqua Jet since Ninetales has a less than stellar Defense stat. Feraligatr and Samurott can easily live an Energy Ball from full HP, but cannot switch in safely. Naturally faster Water-types such as Floatlzel also check Ninetales. However, these Pokemon need to watch out for Passho Berry variants of Ninetales though.

**Probopass**: Probopass doesn't take much from Ninetales's Fire-type attacks and can hit Ninetales with a STAB super-effective (removed hyphen) Power Gem or cripple it with a status condition.

**Special Tanks**: Specially bulky Pokemon such as Mega Camerupt, Mantine, Flareon, and Piloswine can tank a hit and deal heavy damage back to Ninetales or cripple it with Toxic.
 

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