ORAS OU Not standard HO (over 1700 ELO)

[Seth_]

Hi!
I'm currently working on HO team that does not contain typical HO mons. If you say "HO" you think suicide lead, talonflame, breloom, zardX, bisharp. I want to try something fresh, but definitely worth trying.
​

Importable

Stallkiller (Heracross) (M) @ Heracronite
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 148 HP / 192 Atk / 68 SpD / 100 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Pin Missile
- Rock Blast
- Substitute

Great Sage (Alakazam) @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Focus Blast
- Knock Off

Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Iron Head

DANCE MASTER (Gyarados) @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Moxie
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 72 HP / 188 Atk / 248 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Bounce
- Rest

Glue (Heatran) @ Power Herb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Solar Beam
- Ancient Power
- Stealth Rock

Crawdaunt @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Crabhammer
- Knock Off
- Aqua Jet
- Swords Dance

​

Stallkiller (Heracross) (M) @ Heracronite
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 148 HP / 192 Atk / 68 SpD / 100 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Pin Missile
- Rock Blast
- Substitute

So let's start with Heracross, my mega. I'm using MrJamvad set. I have no clue what these EVs do, but I know they are good. Substitut is incredibly sturdy and many people are caught off guard when their attack don't break substitute. It is worth noting that Hera is still quicker than most common status spammers (clef/rotom) so you can get sub for free which is incredibly hard to play around and puts your opponent into huge disadvantage. Also 6-0 stall.

No couters (Kyurem-Black) @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 20 Atk / 252 SpA / 236 Spe
Rash Nature
- Hone Claws
- Fusion Bolt
- Blizzard
- Focus Blast

Kyurem-B is kinda rare pokemon but I think that it fits perfectly. Again, great lead because there are like 18537897 Kyurem sets and no one can be sure which one are you using and I'm using those which you probably aren't expect. I'm using this creative set (it's not mine, I found it on forum) or this

Kyurem-Black @ Chople Berry
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Protect
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Iron Head

This set might sound bad, but if you look at mine team and try to find my lolpunny counters you will get why I'm using this.

Overall Kyurem-B benefits this team greatly because of it's huge bulk. It can survive attacks from typical threads (bisharp, weavile, drill) and OHKO back. No man should disregard Kyurem-B's power.

Great Sage (Alakazam) @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Focus Blast
- Knock Off

Next we have Alakazam, another underused mon and I don't really know why because it's great! This set allows him to punch so many holes in enemy's team that is hard to believe. Knock off is pure devil, because people tend to switch in their ScarfJirachi and get decimated by knock off. However true power of this set shows when you are facing any fat stuff (especially stall) when getting rid of eviolite/leftovers makes difference in numbers of hits needed to KO. Also Alakazam had good speed tier, above lati and starmie which allows him to block spin/defog with some damage and counter rotom which is huge pain to Gyarados. Unfortunately Alakzam is alittle bit too slow to sweep because everybody has torn/weaviel so it's limited to wallbreaker role. Also I wanna fuck up stallso bad you cannot imagine ;_;

Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Iron Head

Another mon is ScarfChomp which in my oppinion works better than ScarfLando, despite lack of U-turn. First of all it's one of quickest scarfs, outspeeding jirachi, lando, kyurem and many others. Second thing is ability to lock itself int both STAB outrage and earthguake which makes it incredibly hard to stop in late game. It is also really bulky, takes halve of rock's damage and is unexpected. IMO underused set. Iron head is great because this set lacks power of LO/SD set so players think that Clef can come in and wall this thing.

DANCE MASTER (Gyarados) @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Moxie
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Bounce
- Rest

Gyarados is my other sweeping option with another great set, which can set up on bulky starmie/clefs and others, because people are unaware that I can just click rest and get rid off status. Since no one really preapares for Gyra and usualy water resist is lati/amoongus which are smashed by Gyra.

Glue (Heatran) @ Power Herb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Solar Beam
- Ancient Power
- Stealth Rock

Last but not least we have heatran, which can deal suprising amounts of damage with magma storm and it's great lure for things like azu/starmie/bro and others. I'm not exactly sure about heatran, but I have nothing for clef/talon and nothing for rocks.

​

Threads:
Clef - at +1 clef usually beats it's countes so I have to play around it extremely careful!​

Talon - I can't preapare for every talonflame set. Once I faced speedy bulkup and that put my team into body bag.​

Ferro - fat and annoying, even if every my mon carry something for it, ferro still can get easy kill with gyro ball.​

Ummm... I don't remember any.

It's worth noting that I'm surpassingly strong against both bisharp and weavile.
Replays:​

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-391592532
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-391800091
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-391604428
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-392042751
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-392040608
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-392034369
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-391801724
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-392922030
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-392926187
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-392929082

 

[Disciple_1]

Hi there,

Your team is, well, how do I put it....... nice I guess. But it could be made a whole lot better. Don't get me wrong here, I love the idea of using underrated mons and all. I've a couple of pointers that might make the tram better.

• Right of the bat, I have to ask you, where are your volt-turners?? Every HO team needs one of it is to sustain it's offensive presence. You really don't want to be switching into an attack you can not tank with such frail Pokemon. So I would suggest swapping out chomp for scarfed Lando-T. Gives you a much needed ground immunity and also reduced your team's fairy weakness.
• Next, give zam a sash over LO. Cause zam doesn't live too many hits and is often OKHOd by SE attacks even of they are not STAB. Also Psyshock>Psychic since it has the useful effect of hitting mons based on their defense rather than their SpDef. This comes in handy against fat mons like Mega Venu, Amoonguus ans such stuff.
• Why do you say you have an issue with ferro when you have heatran, heracross and coverage in zam? But, I would suggest changing magma storm to Fire Blast on tran since its more accurate (never thought i would say that abt Fire Blast) and hits a ton harder. Though it doesn't have the added benefit of the trap+residual damage, its power makes up for that. Also consider using stone edge over ancient power on heatran, since SEdge even with a negative nature does a ton more damage to tflame and zard y than ancient power does.
• Why are you using rest without sleep talk on gyara? It would serve a much better purpose if you used taunt or sub over rest. Give gyara leftovers, sub and let it sweep the meta under the mat. Use intimidate over moxie. It doesn't hurt to lower your opponent's attack, and more often than not will give you a direct opportunity to set up your sub.

I've put the sets below,

sets

Stallkiller (Heracross) (M) @ Heracronite
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 148 HP / 192 Atk / 68 SpD / 100 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Pin Missile
- Rock Blast
- Substitute

No couters (Kyurem-Black) @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 20 Atk / 252 SpA / 236 Spe
Rash Nature
- Hone Claws
- Fusion Bolt
- Blizzard
- Focus Blast

Great Sage (Alakazam) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Focus Blast
- Knock Off

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge/ Rock Slide (It's your preference- power/ accuracy)
- Knock Off
- U-turn

DANCE MASTER (Gyarados) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Bounce
- Substitute / Taunt

Glue (Heatran) @ Power Herb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Ancient Power / Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock

Hope I helped :)

 

[Seth_]

Hi there,

Your team is, well, how do I put it....... nice I guess. But it could be made a whole lot better. Don't get me wrong here, I love the idea of using underrated mons and all. I've a couple of pointers that might make the tram better.

• Right of the bat, I have to ask you, where are your volt-turners?? Every HO team needs one of it is to sustain it's offensive presence. You really don't want to be switching into an attack you can not tank with such frail Pokemon. So I would suggest swapping out chomp for scarfed Lando-T. Gives you a much needed ground immunity and also reduced your team's fairy weakness.
• Next, give zam a sash over LO. Cause zam doesn't live too many hits and is often OKHOd by SE attacks even of they are not STAB. Also Psyshock>Psychic since it has the useful effect of hitting mons based on their defense rather than their SpDef. This comes in handy against fat mons like Mega Venu, Amoonguus ans such stuff.
• Why do you say you have an issue with ferro when you have heatran, heracross and coverage in zam? But, I would suggest changing magma storm to Fire Blast on tran since its more accurate (never thought i would say that abt Fire Blast) and hits a ton harder. Though it doesn't have the added benefit of the trap+residual damage, its power makes up for that. Also consider using stone edge over ancient power on heatran, since SEdge even with a negative nature does a ton more damage to tflame and zard y than ancient power does.
• Why are you using rest without sleep talk on gyara? It would serve a much better purpose if you used taunt or sub over rest. Give gyara leftovers, sub and let it sweep the meta under the mat. Use intimidate over moxie. It doesn't hurt to lower your opponent's attack, and more often than not will give you a direct opportunity to set up your sub.

I've put the sets below,

sets

Stallkiller (Heracross) (M) @ Heracronite
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 148 HP / 192 Atk / 68 SpD / 100 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Pin Missile
- Rock Blast
- Substitute

No couters (Kyurem-Black) @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 20 Atk / 252 SpA / 236 Spe
Rash Nature
- Hone Claws
- Fusion Bolt
- Blizzard
- Focus Blast

Great Sage (Alakazam) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Focus Blast
- Knock Off

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge/ Rock Slide (It's your preference- power/ accuracy)
- Knock Off
- U-turn

DANCE MASTER (Gyarados) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Bounce
- Substitute / Taunt

Glue (Heatran) @ Power Herb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Ancient Power / Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock

Hope I helped :)

Thanks for reply!

I like few of your changes. However there are some points I disagree. I'm using chesto rest Gyarados set form this thread ( http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/oras-creative-underrated-sets.3575562/ hone claw kyurem set is also form this thread) and it works extremly well because it puts people in false sense of security because they think that they put status on Gyra and they are safe. Also I think that psychic is superior optoin for Zam because my team struggles more against psychical tanks because both my sweepers are psychical.

However I will keep your other changes as variation of my team :)

Here, there is proof that I'm over 1700 ELO (only 71% GXE tho)

Also I'm in top500 right now and I win battle against ABR stall in team preview ;)

 

[Disciple_1]

Thanks for reply!

I like few of your changes. However there are some points I disagree. I'm using chesto rest Gyarados set form this thread ( http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/oras-creative-underrated-sets.3575562/ hone claw kyurem set is also form this thread) and it works extremly well because it puts people in false sense of security because they think that they put status on Gyra and they are safe. Also I think that psychic is superior optoin for Zam because my team struggles more against psychical tanks because both my sweepers are psychical.

However I will keep your other changes as variation of my team :)

Here, there is proof that I'm over 1700 ELO (only 71% GXE tho)

Also I'm in top500 right now and I win battle against ABR stall in team preview ;)

Well, it's up to you what you want to keep, I suggested those changes because thy seemed to fit your team better, but if it works for you it's fine. Another thing I forgot to mention is that gardevoir mega destroys. Your heatran is not bulky enough to switch into any of its attacks and live a focus blast. Pixilate boosted Hyper Voice hits heracross behind its sub. In fact chomp doesn't even clean OHKO it with iron head. Lando-T on the other hand can tank at least one hyper voice and KO back with Earthquake.

 

[Seth_]

Hello!

Last time I dust this team off and I made one huge chance. Kyurem-B goes away and here we have better wallbreaker - Crawdaunt!

I run most standard Crawdaunt set (SD) and this change is pretty HUGE!

• I'm much stronger against Loppuny and Medicham, Crawdaun easily deals over 40% to both of them. After SD both of them drops when rocks are up.
• Most annoying Gyra counters (ferrothorn, rotom, slowbro) can't really deal with it so it's much easier to clean path for late game sweep.
• Clef? lol Takes 71% min! Clef sweeps no more.
• Even more forfeits in team preview!

Oh boy, here we go again:

Only 71 GXE, but I had fun.

 

[Lixis]

Replacing garachomp with Landot is, in my opinion a great choice but If I was you I would keep kyube and just stop switching tran in on garch and stop trying to weaken Clefable with kyube, it's not gonna happen. Crawdunt and gyrados does very little besides break through their checks and counters.

 

[LBN]

i suggest that the gyarados is pretty bad tbh. But i will slightly edit it to a resttalk gyarados

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 248 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Sleep Talk
- Rest

I think this is a much better fit personaly, as chesto berry is pretty bad

 

[Cpt.]

Yeah this team crushes walls. Even when you can't cripple the chansey's defense. Good job op! I didn't really even have to heracross

 

[AD impish john]

<Insert Cheesy Intro Here>

Honestly if you're going to use RestoChesto Gyarados, I recommend using a Bulkier EV Spread. Use the EV Spread of 72 HP / 188 Atk / 248 Spe instead, as this gives it more bulk in HP; and still lets you outspeed Mega Lopunny & Manectric at +1, rest in Attack for power. Not much to say since it's pretty much the same Moveset.

I noticed that your team has a hard time dealing against Mega Gardevoir, as you have nothing that can switch-in safely. To have an easier time against it, try using Chople Berry on Heatran as this allows it to tank a Focus Blast from Mega Gardevoir which let's it weaken it by Flamethower/Fire Blast or even getting up Stealth Rocks. Although Chople Berry is for Mega Gardevoir it can be very useful against Superpower Torn-T, Mega Lopunny, Breloom and Hammer Arm Metagross which sorta makes it a lure. Lastly I'd recommend Taunt as the last slot on Heatran to stop opposing Pokemon from setting up Hazards or Sweepers like Azumarill for Clefable from blasting your team.

232+ SpA Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Chople Berry Heatran: 131-155 (40.5 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Also to not get completely 6-0'd by Diancie, I suggest using AV Tangrowth over Alakazam. Tangrowth will also be helpful against Sand Teams since you don't really have a good switch-in against it. Lastly Tangrowth will be your best way of checking Mega Manectric since AV will give it enough SpDef Bulk to be a 3HKO, just pray that you don't get burned from Flamethower.

Lastly, Scarf Chomp is really bad of a set, I'd suggest SubSD Garchomp if you want to have more power like you want. However Mixed LO would also be just as good, which is just as powerful and gives off more coverage than SubSD. But, I'll leave this off to you which ever you prefer more. Anyway, hoped I helped, gl with the team!

Final Suggestions

>

SubSD/Mixed LO>Scarf

New EV Spread

Chople>Lure

Sets

Heatran @ Chople Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Flamethrower/Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Taunt

Tangrowth @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Giga Drain
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Garchomp @ Salac Berry/Leftovers
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 12 HP / 244 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
OR
Garchomp @ Life Orb
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Stone Edge

 

[Seth_]

Replacing garachomp with Landot is, in my opinion a great choice but If I was you I would keep kyube and just stop switching tran in on garch and stop trying to weaken Clefable with kyube, it's not gonna happen. Crawdunt and gyrados does very little besides break through their checks and counters.

i suggest that the gyarados is pretty bad tbh. But i will slightly edit it to a resttalk gyarados

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 248 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Sleep Talk
- Rest

I think this is a much better fit personaly, as chesto berry is pretty bad

I'm put in team description wrong EV spread of Gyarados. I'm using 72 EV in HP which is much better. But you clearly don't know how strong this Gyarados set is. Look at this replay:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-402524480

Once rotom is gone Gyarados crushed entire team. Not even scarf Keldeo with HP electric could stop him.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-402605166

My opponent had very scary, offensive team. However all I had to do is winning 50:50 against Bisharrp and grab my 6 kills with Gyrados.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-402514582

Again, I removed only counter of Gyarados and I grab 4 kills.

<Insert Cheesy Intro Here>

Honestly if you're going to use RestoChesto Gyarados, I recommend using a Bulkier EV Spread. Use the EV Spread of 72 HP / 188 Atk / 248 Spe instead, as this gives it more bulk in HP; and still lets you outspeed Mega Lopunny & Manectric at +1, rest in Attack for power. Not much to say since it's pretty much the same Moveset.

I noticed that your team has a hard time dealing against Mega Gardevoir, as you have nothing that can switch-in safely. To have an easier time against it, try using Chople Berry on Heatran as this allows it to tank a Focus Blast from Mega Gardevoir which let's it weaken it by Flamethower/Fire Blast or even getting up Stealth Rocks. Although Chople Berry is for Mega Gardevoir it can be very useful against Superpower Torn-T, Mega Lopunny, Breloom and Hammer Arm Metagross which sorta makes it a lure. Lastly I'd recommend Taunt as the last slot on Heatran to stop opposing Pokemon from setting up Hazards or Sweepers like Azumarill for Clefable from blasting your team.

232+ SpA Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Chople Berry Heatran: 131-155 (40.5 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Also to not get completely 6-0'd by Diancie, I suggest using AV Tangrowth over Alakazam. Tangrowth will also be helpful against Sand Teams since you don't really have a good switch-in against it. Lastly Tangrowth will be your best way of checking Mega Manectric since AV will give it enough SpDef Bulk to be a 3HKO, just pray that you don't get burned from Flamethower.

Lastly, Scarf Chomp is really bad of a set, I'd suggest SubSD Garchomp if you want to have more power like you want. However Mixed LO would also be just as good, which is just as powerful and gives off more coverage than SubSD. But, I'll leave this off to you which ever you prefer more. Anyway, hoped I helped, gl with the team!

Final Suggestions

>

SubSD/Mixed LO>Scarf

New EV Spread

Chople>Lure

Sets

Heatran @ Chople Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Flamethrower/Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Taunt

Tangrowth @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Giga Drain
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Garchomp @ Salac Berry/Leftovers
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 12 HP / 244 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
OR
Garchomp @ Life Orb
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Stone Edge

Thank you!

Yeah, I messed up EV when I was creating topic. :/

Before I put Crawdaunt on I really had troubles with Diance (my best counterplay was lead Hera and sub on protect) but now, when I have aqua jet to revenge kill it I don't think that's necessary. And I'm standing with scarf Chop. I played a lot with this set and it's much better than people give it credit for. Outspeeding scarf lando and killing it after rocks (when at -1! ) is pretty huge. And I really need choice scarf because my team isn't fast enough without it.

However I enjoy your advices and I'll check them out!