np: NU Stage 9 - Locked Out of Heaven

[ryan]

After our battle, I couldn't agree more with this. While they are both great mons, they just don't partner together as well as they would seem to. This is incredibly disappointing because I genuinely feel Primeape just earned its spot as the best Scarfer in the tier, and Sawk is still easily the greatest Banded threat in the meta.

Also, Lum Berry Golem is incredibly useful right now imo. It has just come in handy so many times. Jynx causing you trouble? When you get a chance to do so for free, bring in Golem. Expecting a Sucker Punch, they'll probably go for the Lovely Kiss and BAM Rock Blast. Liepard causing some huge issues to your shiny new Hyper Offense team? Let it give you a sexy Swords Dance boost and you smack it in its ugly mug. It also has the ability to absorb a Will-o from Misdreavus in a pinch and beat Golurk 1v1. It's been a really cool mon to use so far, and I'm definitely going to continue running it. It was good before as well, but it just seems even better now (probably since it just seems to be an all around better mon right now than what it did in previous metas).

 

[Sweet Jesus]

I agree with tennis about scoli, the fact it's on nearly every team also makes it hard for it to sweep since an opposing scolipede will very often put yours into priority killing range. Misdreavus usage is also increasing a lot while I haven't seen a single mushy in 15 games.

The new pokes have all been discussed already (not a reson to stop though), but what about the impact on the old ones ? Imo rotom-s and f lose their title of best scarfers now that primeape outspeeds them and does big damage with stone edge or just u-turns to a counter reducing the number of turns rotom can come in on SR. Missy will definately see a rise in usage thanks to it's spike immunity, u-turn resist and scoli counter capacities. Weezing will probably get a little hype too for the same reasons though it doesn't spinblock. After using missy a bit, you realize it does tend to die fast however since it's always switching in and out in this meta, an alternative option could be frillish who has access to recover and other cool abilities and can actually wall jynx too once you've sent something as sleep fodder, unfortunately, he is hit by spikes.

Jynx is a total pain to counter, it's best counter probably being hypno (for insomnia and recovery) followed by grumpig who just takes nothing from all it's moves. However, both of these are extremly weak to skuntank not to mention skuntank also traps missy putting pressure on the physical side too. Stall has always been hard in NU but I think it's near impossible now. (Oh and did I mention jynx can't be revenged by aqua jet, ugh)

3 last mentions, kanga is still amazing for it hits missy and it's priority is so damn useful in this meta. Rocky helmet is a pretty nice item for affecting u-turn, megahorn, close combat and more. Finaly, I'm looking forward on using specs/LO zebstrika (who outspeeds and ohko's scoli), with all the new threats, people often neglect countering powerful electic types bringing only a golem that they sac first turn because they just need to weaken your scoli with SR.

 

[Shadow Me]

punchshroom,i dont understand WHY is scolipede a S-rank threat? Sure,many players run it,but it has never become a problem to me.

I'm considering primeape over sawk, but then sawk hits harder and has also served me well. Should I take primeape? Also,about that sawk-primeape duo,a scarf braviary(very common these days) can easily take out both of them.

 

[Punchshroom]

There are many different ways to run a Scolipede, and almost every single one can be effective. With Spikes, Megahorn, Swords Dance, Aqua Tail, Earthquake, Rock Slide, Superpower, Poison Jab, Toxic Spikes, Baton Pass and some obscure options like Iron Defense, Agility and Pursuit, there are zero switch-ins that can stop Scolipede from doing what it needs to do if you bring the wrong switch. Misdreavus and Weezing can wall the very dangerous SD sets, but can't stop it from getting at least one layer of hazards or passing away stat boosts; Armaldo and Torkoal can spin against the hazards Pede, but hesitate to face a Swords Dance Pede. Other defensive checks have to worry about Scolipede's huge offensive movepool that puts a Genesect to shame: bulky Ground-types (namely Golurk and Piloswine) as well as Armaldo have to worry about Aqua Tail, Fire-types Rock-types, Poison-types and Steel-typess must be wary of Earthquake (or Superpower for the latter two), Flying-types and opposing Scolipedes are maimed by Rock Slide, while Fighting-types are skewered by Poison Jab.

Let's not forget that STAB Megahorn that single-handedly reduced the influence of Psychics, however slightly, in the tier, not to mention it has great coverage and power as well. Its speed plays a huge factor in dealing with Scolipede, as most of the time you have to rely on Scarfers or priority to revenge kill it if you're not using one of the handful of pokemon that naturally outspeed it. Its typing, power and speed enable it to force switches and get free Spikes or Swords Dances, which makes it incredibly difficult to handle. The former issue would not be so bad if we had good spinners, but as it stands...

Bottom line: Scolipede either sets up hazards quickly or gears itself up for a sweep, and it is remarkably difficult to stop both with one pokemon (you may argue using two to counter each Scolipede, but what if you predict incorrectly?). You may have dodged a bullet for now, but mark my words that a Scolipede's offensive support or potential will be your downfall someday.

That said, I myself have not been thoroughly screwed by Pede yet, but I haven't been playing that much in this new meta and it's only a matter of time before a single incorrect assumption will send me spiraling downhill.

Oh and for that S-Rank part: Scolipede is just one of the most efficient pokemon in the whole tier. It's just that good at its jobs: the fact it can fulfill multiple roles effectively just cements it in S-Rank imo.

 

[sickweare]

I'd like to bring up a Pokemon who has never been the most popular:

For a long time, this little guy has roamed the depths of NU, occasionally seeing use on teams. Unfortunately he was cursed with having three bad stats (that is HP, attack, and defense which could've been fixed to like take 30 awy from attack and distributing to HP and defense, but w/e) but don't let that hinder your impression. It might be hard to compete with all of the Psychic types in the tier, but one thing he has over the others is his ability to steamroll teams with trick room. While all the others are either speed tying or trying to be plain bulky, any competent player will not send their Scolipede in to maim BEM when a trick room is around the corner, which puts a ton of pressure on the opposing team. Also with invested ulk, he can take a hit before trick room. The tier shifts have been kind to trick room, giving us three fast threats that he can totally take advantage of. Has anyone used him lately?

 

[Punchshroom]

I've used him before, and he does wreck indeed. The problem is setting up that Trick Room, and the 3 threats you described aren't making this easy for him. Munchlax dropping down also gave him a new obstacle to break, making the decision between Psychic and Psyshock that much harder now. There's also the fact that Beheeyem usually takes so much damage to the point where setting up the 2nd Trick Room becomes nigh impossible (not to mention I was using LO Beheeyem) and loses a lot of steam after those 4 turns.

 

[jake]

I could see Sun teams being pretty anti-meta this metagame. For a start, sun;

1)Totally fucks up Jynx thanks to Dry Skin.
2)Lets Chlorophyll abusers outspeed Scolipede and KO with Sun boosted HP Fire/ other Fire move.
3)Lots of Sun abusers have a secondary type that resists fighting, such as the Poison/Grass types and Exeggutor, making switching in on Sawk/ Primeape all the more easy.
4)Said Poison/Grass types can absorb T-Spikes, removing one of Scolipede's main utilities.

So yeah, Sun teams.

I was also interested in how they'd work in this meta, though not for some of the reasons you mentioned - this meta is much faster paced than before and sun sweepers generally have an advantage over the newly popular Pokemon. Resisting Fighting-types means absolutely nothing, since Primeape can easily U-turn out of them and Sawk cleanly 2HKOes everything anyway. Toxic Spikes are also a moot point, since they shouldn't exist on reasonable teams anymore; Scolipede's soon-to-be omnipresence makes them absolutely worthless in most matches.

So, I took a pretty basic sun team for a spin on the ladder last night and earlier this morning under the alt Matisyahu. I built it around Victreebel, which sounded super cool; Solarbeam OHKOes stuff like Primeape and Kangaskhan after SR, while Weather Ball is actually stronger than Sludge Bomb in the sun and cleanly OHKOes Scolipede, Jynx, etc. I used Custap Golem with Sunny Day > Explosion and weather Liepard as primary setters, and also ran Sunny Day on Rapidash (ohhhhh god that set is so good) and on Exeggutor, which I also stuck HP Ground on because of issues with Skuntank and Bastiodon. Lastly, I used Scarf Charizard with Flamethrower > 4th move; it's actually the win condition of that team, now. If I can remove Fire-type resists from the opp's team (not hard to do with Rapidash nuking everything and using Solarbeam on most Fire resists), then I can literally just bring in Charizard and sweep with Flamethrower.


Outside of sun teams, I've found myself liking the faster and previously lesser used Pokemon because they outrun the ~95s that the meta seems to be building itself around right now. Rapidash, Simisage/pour (not sassy monkey, sorry!!), Floatzel, Tauros, Swanna, Kadabra, etc are all really cool to play around with and do really well. Of course, not all of them outspeed Scolipede, but Scolipede isn't so dominating that it makes all slower Pokemon unviable. I actually really liked pairing stuff like CB Floatzel / Spikes Scolipede / Tauros together because they all trash each other's counters or set up on them.

I actually haven't used Jynx yet. :x

 

[Steamroll]

So, I took a pretty basic sun team for a spin on the ladder last night and earlier this morning under the alt Matisyahu. I built it around Victreebel, which sounded super cool; Solarbeam OHKOes stuff like Primeape and Kangaskhan after SR, while Weather Ball is actually stronger than Sludge Bomb in the sun and cleanly OHKOes Scolipede, Jynx, etc. I used Custap Golem with Sunny Day > Explosion and weather Liepard as primary setters, and also ran Sunny Day on Rapidash (ohhhhh god that set is so good) and on Exeggutor, which I also stuck HP Ground on because of issues with Skuntank and Bastiodon. Lastly, I used Scarf Charizard with Flamethrower > 4th move; it's actually the win condition of that team, now. If I can remove Fire-type resists from the opp's team (not hard to do with Rapidash nuking everything and using Solarbeam on most Fire resists), then I can literally just bring in Charizard and sweep with Flamethrower.

Victreebel was absolutely insane when Charizard dropped into the meta almost a year ago, I actually wanted to nom it for suspect but weather teams were so hit and miss back then I thought against it. I'm glad it still works well now a few metas later, even with the speed boost NU has gotten.

I'm also glad you like Sunnydash, it's not hard to threaten something out and set up sun. Places the opponent in an awkward situation where either they'll get Flare Blitzed to death or give you a free turn to switch to something else just as threatening. Also of note, I've seen people make the mistake of using fire moves against teams with Rapidash, and even outside of sun Flare Blitz is stupid powerful 2hko'ing crap like Miltank and chance OHKO'ing Altaria of all things. Be careful around this thing, seriously.

 

[FortressDoor]

One Pokemon I think will take a severe hit is Braviary. I have been trying out Braviary in this new NU, and I have been dissappointed in it. I am not sure how Braviary's SubBulk set will fare, but its Life Orb, CHoice Band, and Choice Scarf (though less than the other two) are completely checked by Primeape and Jynx, who will almost certianly become quite popular. They can't switch in onto Braviary, but both of them outspeed (Primeape is almost always going to be choiced, while Jynx will lose to CHoie Scarf sets, unless it is choice scarfed.) Jynx OHKO's with Ice Beam, while Primeape OHkO's with its STAB Close Combat. It doesn't even need to be locked into a coverage move. Scholipede also outspeeds non-Scarfed variants, and hits it hard with Rock Slide

Granted Braviary can switch out, but there is very little that wants to be on the recieveing end of Primeape's and Jynx's STAB Moves.

Jumpluff will also be taking a hit, now that Primeape can get in for free on the Sleep Powder (unless Primeape is Defiant), and, with Jynx around, things like Hypno and Magmar may get more usage.

 

[Celever]

I have been trying out munchlax in this new meta game and I am actually quite impressed at how good he is. The good old phazer set is the best, of course, but any spinner destroys you, basically. Munchlax is one of those pokemon which need to get a team built around it, rather than you slap it on a random team, since you need pretty much 5 pokemon. Munchlax, a spin blocker, a spikes, a toxic spikes and back up spikes, a stealth rocker and you're good to go.

This metagame is going to be very good for armaldo and wartortle, since they are the two good spinners of NU and they have a pokemon who is going to be used a lot and will have spikes a lot of the time. In this new meta-game, a brilliant defensive core, in theory, would be Grumpig and weezing. Grumpig hard counters Jynx, and weezing hard counters Primeape and Scolipede. These three are used so often now it's not funny, but it means that weezing and grumpig are finding a new place in a meta-game that previously out-cast them.

Two more things that I have had lots of fun with are salac nasty plot jynx, which sweeps by herself, and a banded primeape that is apparently out-classed by sawk. Primeape hits more than hard enough with a band and is faster than sawk, so I don't see why he is out-classed. Keeping U-turn on the set pretty much has your opponent confirm his worries about you being scarfed, only to send in his counter to scarfed primeape and for it to die. Salac Nasty plot jynx sweeps by itself, which is incredibly fun. Set up nasty plot, possibly don't, and then you are a pretty safe OHKO on anything in the tier, besides strict special walls of which you are a two. If you drop below 25% without dying salac berry comes into effect, and boy have you gotta watch out. The speed makes it faster than pretty much everything, except for, somewhat ironically, a fellow drop in scarfed primeape!

Anyway, those are my thoughts on this tier.

 

[Aasgier]

@Celever: On such a team you mention (when you talk about Munchlax) you'd like to squeeze in Riolu with that Copycat Roar spam.

No, Munchlax does not need a dedicated team. It has a niche by itself, you can add it on certain other teams as well. You don't need to dedicate entire teams to Munchlax like that. Munchlax is good on those teams, yes, but Munchlax does not require such a team to function.

 

[Shuckleking87]

Actually, seeing the damage caused by u-turn should easily tell you that it's banded.

 

[Lolk]

I think I am going back to scarfed Kadabra or this metagame. The ability to outspeed scarfed primape and avoid all of the spikes we will soon be seeing will really help.

 

[elchupo]

I was also interested in how they'd work in this meta, though not for some of the reasons you mentioned - this meta is much faster paced than before and sun sweepers generally have an advantage over the newly popular Pokemon. Resisting Fighting-types means absolutely nothing, since Primeape can easily U-turn out of them and Sawk cleanly 2HKOes everything anyway. Toxic Spikes are also a moot point, since they shouldn't exist on reasonable teams anymore; Scolipede's soon-to-be omnipresence makes them absolutely worthless in most matches.

So, I took a pretty basic sun team for a spin on the ladder last night and earlier this morning under the alt Matisyahu. I built it around Victreebel, which sounded super cool; Solarbeam OHKOes stuff like Primeape and Kangaskhan after SR, while Weather Ball is actually stronger than Sludge Bomb in the sun and cleanly OHKOes Scolipede, Jynx, etc. I used Custap Golem with Sunny Day > Explosion and weather Liepard as primary setters, and also ran Sunny Day on Rapidash (ohhhhh god that set is so good) and on Exeggutor, which I also stuck HP Ground on because of issues with Skuntank and Bastiodon. Lastly, I used Scarf Charizard with Flamethrower > 4th move; it's actually the win condition of that team, now. If I can remove Fire-type resists from the opp's team (not hard to do with Rapidash nuking everything and using Solarbeam on most Fire resists), then I can literally just bring in Charizard and sweep with Flamethrower.


Outside of sun teams, I've found myself liking the faster and previously lesser used Pokemon because they outrun the ~95s that the meta seems to be building itself around right now. Rapidash, Simisage/pour (not sassy monkey, sorry!!), Floatzel, Tauros, Swanna, Kadabra, etc are all really cool to play around with and do really well. Of course, not all of them outspeed Scolipede, but Scolipede isn't so dominating that it makes all slower Pokemon unviable. I actually really liked pairing stuff like CB Floatzel / Spikes Scolipede / Tauros together because they all trash each other's counters or set up on them.

I actually haven't used Jynx yet. :x

Well yeah, those were the only things that came to my head even though people have mentioned much more pertinent reasons to use a sun team. And when I mentioned the "Poison/Grass types" I was literally only thinking of Vileplume, who is resistant to CC, neutral to U-turn and has decent bulk to withstand SE and maybe a scarfed Primeape's Ice Punch (don't hold me to that). And when I was talking about outspeeding Scolipede under sun, I meant pretty much the whole tier unscarfed since Scolidpede's speed> the tier.

I really like your idea of using Rapidash. He didn't come to mind at all when I was thinking of decent Fire-types to use even though I've always had a soft spot for him. I think people underestimate how dominant Fire-types can be in NU, forgetting that Emboar and Magmortar both dominated for their respective time's here.

Was it physical based, or special? Or Mixed? I've always been a big proponent of going mixed with it.

 

[Axa]

Assuming standard bulky Vileplume...

252 Atk Primeape Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 208+ Def Vileplume: 118-140 (33.33 - 39.54%) -- 19.04% chance to 3HKO

Vileplume could also take anything Scolipede throws at it especially if it's packing Synhesis/Moonlight, but unless you're fond of or don't mind letting Scolipede set up Spikes, it'd probably be better to have a fast Flyer or Psychic try to take it out quickly.

 

[FortressDoor]

Assuming standard bulky Vileplume...

252 Atk Primeape Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 208+ Def Vileplume: 118-140 (33.33 - 39.54%) -- 19.04% chance to 3HKO

Vileplume could also take anything Scolipede throws at it especially if it's packing Synhesis/Moonlight, but unless you're fond of or don't mind letting Scolipede set up Spikes, it'd probably be better to have a fast Flyer or Psychic try to take it out quickly.

I don''t have the calcuations, but I do wonder if Flying Gem Primeape with Acrobatics will arise to help it get around Vlieplume.

 

[skylight]

I don''t have the calcuations, but I do wonder if Flying Gem Primeape with Acrobatics will arise to help it get around Vlieplume.

252 Atk Flying Gem Primeape Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 208+ Def Vileplume: 260-306 (73.44 - 86.44%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

There's your calc! However I doubt that this set will become popular just for Vileplume as Jynx is free and can effectively destroy Vileplume (other than coming into sleep - but you can do something like double switch out of Primeape if you carry Vital Spirit to get the free turn in to Sub or do whatever you'd like). On the other hand, Flying Gem doesn't even 2HKO Tangela. What's interesting is that the set in particular can OHKO Scolipede without relying on luck (Stone Miss) as well as do the same to Sawk without any defence drops (just too bad it doesn't have Unburden!) While I do think that the Scarf set will end up becoming the most popular, this actually does have some worth in the metagame - and could surprise a few, but for the most part I would personally prefer using Scarf as there are other ways to get around said Pokemon with the right team.

 

[kniteowl]

Has everyone forgotten Subplot Jynx?

It was one of the reasons why Jynx could bypass some of it's checks ( and ultimately banned last time around, not saying it's broken though)

Jynx @ leftovers
Trait: Dry Skin
EVs: 4 SpDef / 252 SpAtt / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Nasty plot
- Ice beam
- Psychic/Psyshock

Everyone expects Jynx to run Lovely Kiss to put one your pokemon to sleep but behind a sub Jynx is even more dangerous, capable of by passing Skuntank's Sucker punch while also blocking scarf U-tuners like Primeape (set up another sub while it breaks your first one). Only the bulkiest counters can stop this Jynx (ie Hypno, Grumpig, Munchlax) and they're uncommon while Munchlax doesn't like psyshock. With the threat of Lovely Kiss, Jynxi can easily set up subs.

Other Options : You can switch out Psychic Stab for Lovely kiss if you want a mono attacker, because Ice Stab is pretty good, only resisted by Water, Steel and Ice. Steel and Ice are pretty uncommon except maybe the odd Poliswine or opposing Jynx. Although water types are pretty common, but there's usually only 1 on a team which can be taken out by Lovely kiss. If you do run Lovely Kiss, Munchlax & Hypno will put a full stop to you.

 

[Ewil]

Has everyone forgotten Subplot Jynx?

It was one of the reasons why Jynx could bypass some of it's checks ( and ultimately banned last time around, not saying it's broken though)

Jynx @ leftovers
Trait: Dry Skin
EVs: 4 SpDef / 252 SpAtt / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Nasty plot
- Ice beam
- Psychic/Psyshock

Everyone expects Jynx to run Lovely Kiss to put one your pokemon to sleep but behind a sub Jynx is even more dangerous, capable of by passing Skuntank's Sucker punch while also blocking scarf U-tuners like Primeape (set up another sub while it breaks your first one). Only the bulkiest counters can stop this Jynx (ie Hypno, Grumpig, Munchlax) and they're uncommon while Munchlax doesn't like psyshock. With the threat of Lovely Kiss, Jynxi can easily set up subs.

Other Options : You can switch out Psychic Stab for Lovely kiss if you want a mono attacker, because Ice Stab is pretty good, only resisted by Water, Steel and Ice. Steel and Ice are pretty uncommon except maybe the odd Poliswine or opposing Jynx. Although water types are pretty common, but there's usually only 1 on a team which can be taken out by Lovely kiss. If you do run Lovely Kiss, Munchlax & Hypno will put a full stop to you.

Actually i'm using this set and it's very usefull and powerfull ! Jynx has many opportunities to set a sub and i think that the opponent always wonders if i have Psychic STAB or Lovely Kiss and if he/she guesses a LO set or a Choice set and try to status me, then is gg. Actually i'm testing with Psychic since i believe that my team is pretty prepared for Jynx's counters. I've Skuntank for Grumpig and Hypno and a lot of physical ones for Munchlax.

 

[ryan]

Mono-attacking sub-NP Jynx is a very real threat too. With a powerful STAB Ice Beam, there aren't a lot of things that can get by it. Alomomola can take Ice Beams, but it literally can do nothing to Jynx but heal it with Scald/Waterfall. Of course, it would see issues getting past things like Roar Bastiodon and Dragon Tail Lickilicky, but even the latter it can beat with enough boosts up. It's definitely a real threat, and with the right support (i.e. Wallbreakers), it can really destroy.

252SpAtk +2 Jynx (Neutral) Ice Beam vs 252HP/252SpDef Lickilicky (+SpDef): 49% - 58% (211 - 250 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 26% chance to 2HKO.

I mean damn. If it switched in on a +2 Ice Beam, it has a chance to get 2HKOed. Even if it doesn't get 2HKOed, it won't look pretty and will be easily revenged on a switch-in.

 

[Rowan]

Scraggy is a decent counter to Jynx. It can take anything that Jynx throws at it and cleanly OHKOs with Payback or Crunch. A Modest 252 SpAtk Ice Beam does 30.92 - 36.84% damage so Scraggy has no problem switching in at full health and Shed Skin makes Lovely Kiss less scary. The only move it fears is Focus Blast but it works against the quite a few Jynx that run Mono Ice Beam or Ice Beam+Psychic/shock.

 

[skylight]

Tauros was mentioned earlier in the thread but nothing in particular about Scarf Tauros. The idea of actually finding a legitimate reason to use this might seem weird but with NU being much faster, there's a role it can do pretty well in. It can outspeed and kill both Scarf Jynx/Primeape (with SR, but without SR it's 93% of the time guaranteed on Ape) and can 2HKO Scolipede to guarantee only one layer of Spikes at a time (or OHKO with SR). Not so much to Alomomola/Tangela/Weezing/Vileplume (although 40% at max isn't really that bad on Weezing), but the fact that it can make quite an impact on the new drops is pretty awesome, given how the metagame favours the faster attackers right now and people are trying to find answers to them. Other than this it also makes a great revenge killer in general, too!

 

[ebeast]

I like Scarf Charizard as a revenge killer in this metagame as well. It was already quite good last metagame with the ability to outspeed even Scarf Rotom-S and hit everything hard with Fire Blast. In this metagame, it's a complete monster with Alomomola falling out of favor, Metang becoming more popular, and an increase in the amount of threats it can revenge kill. Jynx, Scolipede, and Primeape are all outsped and taken out handily by Scarf Zard. It has a 4x Stealth Rock weakness, but it does come with the benefit of getting it to Blaze range a lot faster, which is great for late game Fire Blast/Flamethrower sweeps when Rock-type Pokemon are disposed of.

Charizard (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Blaze
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Focus Blast
- Flamethower
- Air Slash

Fire Blast and Focus Blast are Charizard's main moves as the former hits extremely hard off Zard's base 109 SpA and the latter hits the Rock-type Pokemon that resist Fire Blast. Flamethrower is a more accurate options and works best for late game Blaze sweeps to not have to risk Fire Blast misses. Air Slash is probably the least important move in the set as it doesn't really hit anything that Fire Blast and Focus Blast doesn't but can come in handy against a full health Ludicolo or for potential flinches against special walls.

 

[elchupo]

Has anyone considered a standalone Trick Room user as a way to circumvent the speed creep that's occurred with most of the new Pokemon that have dropped?

Most good Trick Room users in NU are Psychic types, which is essentially perfect since their STAB and a coverage move gives them SE hits on 3/4 out of the dropped Pokemon (Scoli, Primeape and Jynx), and access to Psyshock allows them to get around Munchlax.

Right now I'm torn between trying Duosion or Beheeyem. Magic Guard+LO is very tempting on the former, but without Eviolite Duosion will die to a light breeze. Beheeyem has more bulk, but for some reason isn't as appealing as Duosion.

 

[watashi]

the biggest problem with trick room teams is that its really hard to gain back the momentum once it runs out with pokemon like jynx, kangaskhan, and scolipede running around threatening to ko or sleep your trick room setters. the latter is probably the biggest threat since megahorn will murder most psychic-types.