Metagame np: SS Ubers Stage 3 - Interlude

[dracozolt]

Coverage move isn't necessary when Astral Barrage hits 90% of the tier for neutral damage (only resisted by Dark). Zacian can be revenge killed by every single relevant scarfer in the game (Kyogre, Reshiram etc). And of course, it's countered by Quagsire and Defensive Necrozma DM (if not running SD).

Calyrex is a better wallbreaker than Zacian by a massive amount, but it also has its checks. However it's much harder to contain than Zacian once its checks are killed.

Astral Barrage can hit neutral but it needs the +1 after a kill to be a real threat. Zacian gets the +1 from the get go. Plus Calyrex is only marginally faster than Zacian so scarfers are still an option against it.

Zacian doesn't have any crippling quadruple weaknesses and can laugh off most priority moves unlike Calyrex who can't even survive a suckerpunch while dynamaxed.

More importantly Zacian can switch in and set-up far easier with it's typing, immunities, bulk and resistatances. It can easily switch into most Yvetels or correctly predicted attacks like brave bird Ho-oh. Calyrex can't. You gotta put a lot of work to set it up and which is usually late in the game. Zacian is viable start to finish. So the idea that Calyrex can 6 - 0 teams is preposterous

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Astral Barrage can hit neutral but it needs the +1 after a kill to be a real threat. Zacian gets the +1 from the get go. Plus Calyrex is only marginally faster than Zacian so scarfers are still an option against it.

Zacian doesn't have any crippling quadruple weaknesses and can laugh off most priority moves unlike Calyrex who can't even survive a suckerpunch while dynamaxed.

More importantly Zacian can switch in and set-up far easier with it's typing, immunities, bulk and resistatances. It can easily switch into most Yvetels or correctly predicted attacks like brave bird Ho-oh. Calyrex can't. You gotta put a lot of work to set it up and which is usually late in the game. Zacian is viable start to finish. So the idea that Calyrex can 6 - 0 teams is preposterous

Calyrex can most definitely kill more mons much easier than Zacian, as it can hold Specs to increase its power or hold Scarf to not be revenge killed outside priorty. Zacian has a poor offensive typing and its STAB has abysmal coverage. Wild Charge does not OHKO standard defensive Ho-OH and Zacian risks getting burned by Sacred Fire, which cripples it completely. Meanwhile Astral Barrage is a 120 bp stab move which is resisted by a couple of pokemon in the tier. Zacian has 4ms issue unlike Calyrex, it risks getting walled by a lot more pokemon depending on its moves.

Anyways, one is a physical wallbreaker, and other is a special wallbreaker so they are not competing for the same spot. But Calyrex can either be stronger or faster than anything in the meta, depending on what item it holds. You are underestimating the number of OHKO Calyrex can get with Specs, it's very easy to get 6-0 if checks are taken care of.

 

[Cuddly]

It's pretty evident that Calyrex-S is the most talked about CT Uber now, and it's not hard to see why, especially on;

HALLOWEEN​

While I personally say that there is more of a problem with Dynamax being unrestricted, and Calyrex-S is excellent but not close to AG worth (come talk to me when it gets Quiver Dance, a Special Extreme Speed, and As One starts canceling weather+reduces its weaknesses).

What isn't talked about is its wide movepool. It seems like everyone wants to just run Nasty Plot+3 moves (2 of those moves always being Astral Barrage and Psyshock). As a king, I think that doesn't do Calyrex-S justice to be pretty linear. There of course is nothing wrong with a good old NP 3 attacks set, but Calyrex gives Spectrier a much wider movepool which can help cover its weaknesses.

Probably one of the most useful status moves other than Nasty Plot will be Substitute. Because of it's 100/80/100 bulk, it's x4 weakness to Sucker Punch and Shadow Sneak, it still being slower than most weather abusers, and well Ditto just outright stealing Calyrex's identity, it's actually pretty risk to use and can be forced out in many scenarios, leaving its teammates to take the brunt of what ever was meant to hit Calyrex-S.
Substitute, at the cost of coverage or Nasty Plot, can alleviate the problem of revenge killing, as well as many other things that will ruin Calyrex's day. Aside from allowing Calyrex-S from to stay in longer with good prediction, it also prevents most status moves from hindering Calyrex-S or your teammates greatly, such as when a Tyranitar predicts Zacian-C will come in and uses Thunder Wave, thinking either target being paralyzed can ruin your core. Sub isn't just for protecting Calyrex-S in offensive sets either. With the rest of its movepool, it can play more like a Stallbreaker instead of a Wallbreaker.

Will-o-wisp is next on that list. With so many Physical attackers running around, most of which have no burn immunity, Calyrex-S can easily ruin some of the scariest Pokemon. Thanks to it's 150 Spe, it can outspeed base 95 Scarfers and of course Zacian-C. In addition, you also power-up Hex, which is even stronger than Astral Barrage and has double the PP. Also in addition, it turns Foul Play from an a near OHKO into a 3HKO (that is with HP investment vs standard Calyrex without investment).

Taunt is another great tool for both offensive and defensive sets. Preventing healing, hazards, defog (and also Rapid Spin), status, trick room, setting up, and more is always a valuable asset, especially on a Pokemon with its speed. It's great.

Trick is another type of set I'v heard earlier, which can cripple most oncoming threats, but can only work once and it doesn't really solve some of its switch-ins.

Leech Seed in conjunction with Sub sets can be a devastating combo with Calyrex-S's speed tier once Marshadow and any grass type is dealt with. Leech Seed can also be used on its own for Calyrex-S to chip at its checks while healing off Life Orb Recoil.

 

[LBN]

It's pretty evident that Calyrex-S is the most talked about CT Uber now, and it's not hard to see why, especially on;

HALLOWEEN​

While I personally say that there is more of a problem with Dynamax being unrestricted, and Calyrex-S is excellent but not close to AG worth (come talk to me when it gets Quiver Dance, a Special Extreme Speed, and As One starts canceling weather+reduces its weaknesses).

Now i know you said other things, but this is such an exaggeration. The issue with calyrex is that, it has sets that can beat any checks that might be used. If you run sp def yveltal, the most common one; you can either eat a trick and become dead weight, and gets worn down with rocks and can just lose. You can also lose with sp def yveltal to sub seed NP. While i know you can and i have been running snarl to deal with this set and sub sets in general, snarl is near worthless otherwise, its only purpose i've had for it was weakening an opposing life orb yveltal, and giving a safer switch to something else, but this doesnt solve how you can't run foul play on it and invite in zacian of all things for literally free. Now, assuming you have obligatory sucker and roost, and affromentioned snarl, you either lose taunt, and let yourself get twaved by necro/zygarde and be setup fodder for zygarde aswell, or go with taunt, and invite zacian to force momentum back to them for free.

That's just the predicament with one pokemon too. Blissey can also get tricked and just lose, or if they NP on your blissey switch, your eating a +2 psyshock which ohkos with life orb. or they can be sub nasty plot, and your literally screwed unless your running shadow ball blissey. And i'm sorry but if one of your best answers to a pokemon is shadow ball on your BLISSEY, then that's a sign that maybe your broken.

On another note, calyrex will get better from dynamax being removed, since while its a good benefitter, its also heavily appreciating pokemon like kyogre, dialga, zygarde, xern and yveltal not dynamaxing to parry it and remove it. With that option out of the way, you cant just be like "i'll just max my kyogre and force a mon to die in reverse"

Calyrex would be fine if it didnt have such a wide variety of sets that can be chosen to just juke its like 2 soft checks in the tier, and like 4 in the franchise. (Arc-dark and alolan muk, but muk cant pursuit so yea) and also arc dark can also lose to the sub seed set, so thats not safe either.

The fact that running shadow ball blissey is one of the better ways to deal with it should serve as a fair reason as to why its broken. I remember in gen 6 when mega ray was sitting in ubers for the beautiful 7 hours or somethin it lasted, people were using bloody porygon2 and rotom-wash in ubers because literally nothing else could come close to managing it. While its not as extreme as mega ray, this pokemon is simply put, too broken for this tier. I understand ubers doesn't like banning pokemon much, but this pokemon genuinely warps this tier. Not even zacian was this bad.

 

[dracozolt]

Calyrex can most definitely kill more mons much easier than Zacian, as it can hold Specs to increase its power or hold Scarf to not be revenge killed outside priorty. Zacian has a poor offensive typing and its STAB has abysmal coverage. Wild Charge does not OHKO standard defensive Ho-OH and Zacian risks getting burned by Sacred Fire, which cripples it completely. Meanwhile Astral Barrage is a 120 bp stab move which is resisted by a couple of pokemon in the tier. Zacian has 4ms issue unlike Calyrex, it risks getting walled by a lot more pokemon depending on its moves.

Anyways, one is a physical wallbreaker, and other is a special wallbreaker so they are not competing for the same spot. But Calyrex can either be stronger or faster than anything in the meta, depending on what item it holds. You are underestimating the number of OHKO Calyrex can get with Specs, it's very easy to get 6-0 if checks are taken care of.

Calyrex can hold items true. But it's just so easy to stop compared to Zacian. Any decent pokemon with shadow sneak or suckerpunch can lay it out. So it's checks are too numerous to reasonably take out. Also what about normal types? Blissey can just sit there taking astral barrage all day and the move has low pp. If you have a choice item Blissey will just stall you out. Most Calyrex don't run psychock because lmao you give Yvetel even more reasons to switch in.

The big deal is being able to switch in a pokemon to use in the first place. Zacian has loads of switch in opportunities, Calyrex doesn't. Plus Zacian can easily switch into something, threaten it and sword dance on the switch. At which point you can get rekt. No ma

Calyrex can most definitely kill more mons much easier than Zacian, as it can hold Specs to increase its power or hold Scarf to not be revenge killed outside priorty. Zacian has a poor offensive typing and its STAB has abysmal coverage. Wild Charge does not OHKO standard defensive Ho-OH and Zacian risks getting burned by Sacred Fire, which cripples it completely. Meanwhile Astral Barrage is a 120 bp stab move which is resisted by a couple of pokemon in the tier. Zacian has 4ms issue unlike Calyrex, it risks getting walled by a lot more pokemon depending on its moves.

Anyways, one is a physical wallbreaker, and other is a special wallbreaker so they are not competing for the same spot. But Calyrex can either be stronger or faster than anything in the meta, depending on what item it holds. You are underestimating the number of OHKO Calyrex can get with Specs, it's very easy to get 6-0 if checks are taken care of.

Yeah but the reality is there are far too many checks to reasonably take out. You're talking about taking out scarfers & Yvetel and possibly another ghost like Giratina. By the time you do that you're in the late game and you're not getting big sweeps.

Having high attack or special attack is just vanity unless you can actually use it without lots of work to set up. Like Rampardos with 165 attack but has never been in OU.

Virtually any Calyrex set will lose to Marshadow. Even if it hides behind a substitue spectral thief bypasses protection. Scarf Calyrex still loses to shadow sneak after damage and choice specs definitely loses to scarf Marshadow using spectral thief.

 

[WolfishOne]

Calyrex can hold items true. But it's just so easy to stop compared to Zacian. Any decent pokemon with shadow sneak or suckerpunch can lay it out. So it's checks are too numerous to reasonably take out. Also what about normal types? Blissey can just sit there taking astral barrage all day and the move has low pp. If you have a choice item Blissey will just stall you out. Most Calyrex don't run psychock because lmao you give Yvetel even more reasons to switch in.

The big deal is being able to switch in a pokemon to use in the first place. Zacian has loads of switch in opportunities, Calyrex doesn't. Plus Zacian can easily switch into something, threaten it and sword dance on the switch. At which point you can get rekt. No ma


Yeah but the reality is there are far too many checks to reasonably take out. You're talking about taking out scarfers & Yvetel and possibly another ghost like Giratina. By the time you do that you're in the late game and you're not getting big sweeps.

Having high attack or special attack is just vanity unless you can actually use it without lots of work to set up. Like Rampardos with 165 attack but has never been in OU.

Virtually any Calyrex set will lose to Marshadow. Even if it hides behind a substitue spectral thief bypasses protection. Scarf Calyrex still loses to shadow sneak after damage and choice specs definitely loses to scarf Marshadow using spectral thief.

Let's see viable sucker punchers and shadow sneakers

Marshadow
Aegislash (barely)
Giratina does learn it but would rather be running another move
Yveltal
Urshifu(barely)
Cinderace(Barely)

That's literally it.

Blissey isn't extremly reliable since it gets fucked over by trick and psyshock. Also saying most calyrex don't run psyshock really says it all about how unexperienced you are.

While calyrex's bulk isn't great it isn't deoxys-attack either

0 Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Sunsteel Strike vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Calyrex-Shadow: 192-226 (56.3 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 Atk Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Calyrex-Shadow: 117-138 (34.3 - 40.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

0 SpA Eternatus Dynamax Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Calyrex-Shadow: 150-177 (43.9 - 51.9%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO

Just a few of the walls it can come in on, not mentioning its 2 immunities.

You give the point about ZaCian SDing after forcing something out but act like calyrex can't do that too

You forget, calyrex can also run a choice scarf lure set to eliminate scarf checks. Yveltal is forced to dynamax vs NP variants with draining kiss since after some chip it gets plowed through by +2 max starfall.

Marshadow 1) Is far too frail to switch in.
2) Shadow Sneak is blocked by psychic terrain it can set with dyna
3) If it has a substiute up beforehand it just ohkos you as you shadow sneak to break sub.

 

[Nayrz]

Interrupting the regularly scheduled Calyrex discussion for something more important... stay tuned.