Metagame np: Stage 5: Butterfly (Vivillon Suspect Test)

[Melons-N-Soda]

THE best mon we got. First, it's a ground type that doesn't lose to our electric types (cough cough palossand). Whiscash is probably better than Rhydon at countering Rotoms and Raichus, but Morpeko can't touch Rhydon. Second, they gave Rhydon Supercell Slam. Why? I don't know. Since Stone Edge already hits flying types, this is probably only applicable to hit water types. It also gets heat crash, but I've found that it really doesn't need it, and that it isn't 120bp often. If you are using Supercell Slam, just remember that rock head does not block crash damage, but Reckless boosts crash damage moves.

IMO I think the best ability on Rhydon is Lightningrod cause you can keep your Volt immunity even when you Tera, which is quite huge. As for specific Tera types, dunno any in particular that would particularly stand out other than generic defensive Teras. (Steel, Water, Fairy etc.) Though given that our Electrics like to run Grass coverage, Water might not be the best ATM.

 

[Bella]

Yes hello hi it is me again and it is time to talk about more Pokemon :3
Today i will talk about all the New good NFEs + some other things.



The Skyscraper is about as good as i expected it to be. I normally see 2 sets now; the Special Attacking 3A Twave set, which i find extremely solid, and the Rest Iron Defense Body Press set which is also decent. Duraludon's typing is extremely unique for a tier with limited Dragons and Grounds, which gives it pretty nice Offensive and Defensive potental. Overall, extremely solid mon and im leaning towards the fact that its fine but i would not mind seeing it gone.


HOLY SHIT ITS SO GOOD. I've been having extremely fun times with Agility Download, but thats not the only good set. Porygon can be a Bulky Status spreader or even a Trick Room Analytic attacker too. Personally, what may push it over the edge for me is how extremely bulky it is. It takes attacks like they are nothing, even with limited bulk investment. Forces you to run a Fighting-type to take it on. Also, as a sidenote, the coverage is insane. Having BoltBeam coverage alone is great along with some other good options like Shadow Ball or Psyshock. I don't know if its the most obviously broken mon ever, but its def A / A+ tier minimum.


Having another real ground is awesome, and its one of the fattest too. Rhydon on the Physical side was already pretty strong and fat and with Eviolite it just goes to a complete wall on the Physical side and a pretty alright tank on the Special side too. Decent utility with Stealth Rock and Roar, pretty nice coverage choices with moves such as the Elemental Punches and Body Press, and even interesting wincon potental with Swords Dance and a good tera abuser too! Pretty decent mon overall, I think this is the worst of the big three NFEs but that's not saying much because this is still an A- mon imo.

and now onto the other Pokemon!


OH MY GOD THIS THING NEEDS TO GO. Im serious, Expanding Force literally 2HKOs the majority of the tier and even 3HKOs the bulkiest of Special walls such as Articuno (who just get Psyshocked)
252 SpA Indeedee Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Articuno in Psychic Terrain: 135-160 (35.1 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Some other fun calcs:
252 SpA Indeedee Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eelektross in Psychic Terrain: 264-312 (70.5 - 83.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Indeedee Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 164 HP / 0 SpD Arboliva in Psychic Terrain: 204-241 (60.3 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Indeedee Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Raichu-Alola in Psychic Terrain: 125-147 (47.8 - 56.3%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO
If most teams did not need a Dark-type already, this just forces every team to run one. I would love to see a suspect or a least a council vote on this soon.


I think Poli (and Fighting-types in general) are still at an all time high. Particularly with Tera Dark, Poli acts as checks to Veluza, Indeedee, and has STAB into all 3 NFEs and can tank their attacks well, overall pretty neat.
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I think all of the other NFEs are pretty bad, to be honest. Stuff like Vibrava, Servine, and Metang seem too niche or just flat out bad. Maybe Metang will be the most viable, since we really don't have any other true defensive Steel-types right now? We will have to wait and see.

 

[PrincessGardevoir]

Me watching Golem-Alola's stocks fall off a cliff after hyping him up for a month straight and Rhydon, Clawitzer, and Duraludon rise to the occasion

I think two mons warrant tiny mentions imo


NP TR stocks remain extremely high, especially with Duraludon wanting to click the big stupid Draco Meteor and P2 being less than good against it. It still massacres HO teams, and traits like Sap Sipper for Arboliva and very favorable Teras like Grass (for Raichu/Rai-A, Rhydon/Golem/Dug/grounds, and Clawitzer) are banger. Played a few games, it's still easily one of my top rated mons in the meta imho


looks a bit better and also way worse; it still has to compete with scarfers and Floatzel but it now has 3 of the juciest Close Combat absorbers imaginable in the tier... but can't OHKO at +0. Rhydon as an electric immune means it's FEASTING on a Ground type, and I'm confident that, at some point, CB Sneasel-H is going to pop the fuck off in PU.

252 Atk Choice Band Sneasel-Hisui Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Duraludon: 282-332 (100.3 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sneasel-Hisui Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Duraludon: 282-332 (81.9 - 96.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes

252 Atk Choice Band Sneasel-Hisui Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 270-320 (65.2 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes
252 Atk Choice Band Tera Fighting Sneasel-Hisui Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 360-428 (86.9 - 103.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes

252 Atk Choice Band Tera Fighting Sneasel-Hisui Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 328-388 (87.7 - 103.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes (imagine how much this thing dies without def investment, it's pretty funny)

SD tera Grass Trailblaze also looks a lot better thanks to dunking on Palo as well as Rhydon but like i abandoned that set a while ago lol











EDIT: Fucking please get rid of Indeedee. Having to contantly play around a 120 bp booted by Psy Terrain Psychic move with 105 SpA is ridiculous and trying to juggle your Dark Type, already tasked with other mons on a team, with keeping it alive is stupid. I can't enjoy games where I have to keep Skuntank in the back and run 2 extra Tera Darks.

 

[Dorsia]

Warning: this post is purely speculative about potential drops that used to belong to PU last gens at some point and that I wish to use here.

: it lost Jump Kick yet it gained Trailblaze. SD/Brave Bird/Body Slam/Knock Off should hit almost everything except fat Rhydon. CB/Scarf exist as well.
: Specs is brutal and Trick Room can work as well. Most particularly it gained Flamethrower for some reason (I guess because its cousin does?).
: ok as a spinner but we have better options imo. It gained SD and Knock Off if you wish to run more offensive sets (instead of Bulk Up/Drain Punch).
: no Knock Off but Technician Triple Axel is back. Though its only way to hit Ghost being...Thief.
: I've never really liked this mon but I must admit it does its job. No Heal Bell nor Toxic this gen but Scald and Flip Turn are available to it. I can see something like Volt Switch / Scald / Whirlpool / Protect with HDB or Lefties.
: this one might be a problem. Quiver Dance + Strength Sap is already annoying but now it can run Tera Fairy to obtain a better typing + STAB Moonblast. At least it's quite slow and Grass/Fairy isn't the best coverage option but Tera Ground exists...
: tera Electric should be nice, but unfortunately it lost Rock Polish so I'd go with BoltBeam/IceChargeBeam RestTalk set.
: purely brutal, usable in Trick Room I guess. Mold Breaker with Surf was a thing back then to deal with Golem (and potentially Rhydon now).
: gained Bulk Up, Knock Off and Supercell Slam. STAB+EQ+Ice Punch looks super.
: I really missed it. Zestrika must belong to PU! Tbolt/Overheat/Tera Ice ftw. Sap Sipper with Tera ground or Lightningrod with Tera Water look fire, it adds great coverage.
: i love this thing. Max HP/Max SpD ResTalk was my favourite set to use, and now with Tera Poison/Steel it can counter Bug/Fairy types. I won't mention Tera Stellar with Contrary because it's not cool. Don't do that or it may never end up here!
: I completely forgot this mon. Beak Blast is super cool (100 BP/accuracy, no recoil and potential burn), it kept Roost, gained SD + Temper Flare (75bp Fire move), has Bullet Seed/Rock Blast as coverage and Knock Off for some utility.

There is also but I doubt it ends up here (Tera Fighting + Body Press with 200 Def is insane).
ps: bring back

 

[LettuceLeaf07]

One of my favorite archetypes for the past few months has been trick room, and because I wanted to defend Carbink and Hattrem of all things in the VR thread, I thought I'd actually play a game or ten in the current meta with them. And then I felt like I'd make a post about trick room in general because I love trick room and don't post here as often as the VR thread. Keep in mind I mostly play ladder with this, but this should apply at higher levels too. Hopefully this is useful! (and if you don't read the post at least read the tl;dr) (also are courtesy spoilers a thing I should use?)

Trick Room: The Novel

1. The Setters.
/

In my opinion, the first three are the trick room setters you should seriously consider, and the latter three are choices you can make if you really really want (I don't want). Spiritomb is a necessity on trick room, as it's the best OTR mon in the tier. Frankly, you could just run Spiritomb and a slow mon like Lurantis as a "trick room" team, and that would work. Spiritomb has the bulk to recklessly stay in on almost anything, live a hit and set trick room or NP, and fire back with serious damage. Whether you're going full trick room or not, the ability that Spiritomb has to turn a matchup like Stored Power Farigiraf on its head with Trick Room is powerful. Spiritomb is such a threat under trick room with its typing, stats, and NP, that it will almost always have something to do in a game. If the opponent stalls out trick room, they face the onslaught of Spiritomb, but if they kill it early they probably used their tera to get fairy coverage and you probably have another slow mon that can revenge that.

Now, if you are using full trick room, you do need at least one more setter. I've found that both Carbink and Hattrem are good in their own ways, but they are mons that you should not run together because they overlap heavily. Both mons are there to set trick room, maybe get hazards on the opponent's side with sr or mbounce respectively, and die. Carbink puts the hazards in your hands, meaning your opponent needs to have a decent anti-lead if they want to stop trick room and hazards from going up. Mental herb, in combination with Sturdy, guarantees hazards or trick room, but Sitrus berry is another option on Carbink. In my experience, you're more likely to take 50-60% from a hit on Carbink than face a lead running Taunt on ladder, which is why I'm recommending it. On the other hand you have Hattrem, who has Eviolite, Mbounce, and healing wish. Especially on an offensive archetype like Trick Room, healing wish is very nice to have. It allows you to not only get a safe switch from Hattrem dying, but once you recklessly switch your Crabominable into something you didn't want to, Hwish gives you a chance to bring that back up to full and heal that burn your took for some reason. Magic bounce also provides hazard control by virtue of existing. Both Carbink and Hattrem have their pros and cons, and with the rest of your team you can justify either. The compression of hazards or hazard control means they both add value to trick room outside of setting either way, but mons like Rhydon and Lurantis can help fill those niches theoretically. Ultimately, I feel that Carbink is a little better, since I think Lurantis is worth using more than Rhydon in trick room.

The rest of the setters I mentioned aren't really worth using. I have tried both Farigiraf and Rabsca, and I've found Spiritomb and Hattrem to outclass each respectively. Spiritomb does the OTR thing better than Farigiraf due to its bulk and better typing. While the Revival Blessing support looks good on paper with Rabsca, you're probably better with healing wish Hattrem since it fully heals and gives a free switch. Finally, I put Indeedee on here not because anyone actually used it, but because it technically gets the same TR + hwish combo as Hattrem. I don't think anyone's tried it, and even though it's probably outclassed by Farigiraf I thought I'd mention it in case it pops off next meta.

2. The Abusers.
/ / /

I split these into four sections. The first two are almost mandatory or the best/most obvious options, the second group is grass, the third are not first choices for full trick room but good users of it, and the fourth category mons are choices you can make.

Of the first two, Crabominable is the first mon I think of when thinking about running a full trick room. It's fairly bulky, has a great offensive movepool with Boltbeam coverage, iron fist boosted drain punch and ice hammer, and earthquake. I think that it's best 4 moves are Ice Hammer/Drain Punch/Thunder Punch/ EQ, but Knock off can be used to better punish ghosts, specifically Froslass. The raw power of Crab's iron fist boosted moves from that juicy base 132 attack is the reason you're running full trick room. It's good with Choice band to do maximum damage, but I think that Assault Vest is a neat option since it allows you to switch moves and therefore not waste trick room turns.
On the special side, you have Clawitzer. I think we've all experienced a tera dragon mega launcher boosted dragon pulse before, but imagine that under trick room. As juicy as it is to round out Clawitzer with aura sphere, dark pulse, and water pulse for the Mega Launcher potential, you absolutely cannot miss out on U-turn, and options like Hydro Pump and Blizzard are also worth your consideration. I don't need to add too much more since Claw is a meta relevant threat even without trick room, but using it on Trick Room allows you to capitalize on its slow speed and high damage better. Like Crab, you can run a choice item or something like boots or life orb to switch moves. I would recommend running a choice item on at least one of these two, and definitely not on both.

This section was originally going to be your second choices after your primary 2 abusers, but I kept moving Pokémon out of this category until I was left with Lurantis and Arboliva, and both of them honestly deserve their own section. With Lurantis, you take a Contrary sweeper with low speed into a trick room sweeper and it gets more opportunities to start setting up. With Arboliva, you take a strong special attacker with low speed and give it more opportunities to KO opponents. They do have vastly different roles, but they are both great without trick room and potent with it. Lurantis definitely edges out Arbo here, mostly because it's harder to stop one that boosted under trick room and because it gets defog, which would otherwise be nearly impossible to include on a PU trick room team. Additionally, Arbo competes a little with Clawitzer since they are special attackers with very similar roles and stat spreads, which makes the variety of Lurantis more appealing.

After that, these mons are good options for trick room, but don't benefit from it as much as the last 4 mons. If you're specifically looking for OTR tomb partners that's mostly all of these mons.
I'm starting this part with Rhydon, who is slow with a strong damage output and provides utility with stealth rock, but I have not personally used it in dedicated full trick room so I can't fully endorse it there. I have used it alongside OTR tomb (ty Melt Gibson), and being able to pop off a fast earthquake or stone edge is very potent in a meta that isn't used to real ground types.
Eelektross and Muk are next, and both of them are strong physical attackers that can use trick room to take advantage of a switch and click Knock or start setting up. They have the bulk to both be switched in if another mon is threatened and still perform well, which is invaluable on full trick room. The most recent full TR team I used had an Eelektross, and I would endorse it farther on its coil sets if I had ever used it outside of trick room. Yes, it was good and I do recommend it, but I don't know if that had anything to do with trick room.
With Porygon2, it can technically be a trick room setter, but then you lose either recover or tri attack. It's survivable enough to take hits as a sweeper, which is more valuable than being another setter is. My only experience with it is with the secret santa team I linked to below, where it does very well, but I specifically requested the room service item for this mon.
The last mon in this category is Avalugg-h. I really wanted to put it in the next category since it overlaps greatly with Crabominable in terms of offense and since you don't really need Avalugg's defensive profile, but if you are running partial TR or OTR tomb, Avalugg would actually work on those structures.

And finally, Golem-a, Gurdurr, Camerupt, and Trevenant. For Golem-a, it's not that it won't work in trick room, it's that Eelektross and Rhydon are right there, and that Crab gets thunder punch. If you are intent on making Golem-a work it does perform well in TR and is actually viable, but it's not worth running trick room for Golem-a like it is for Crabominable. Gurdurr also overlaps with Crab, and even though it stands out with defog, Lurantis is right there and also gets fighting coverage. I guess Gurdurr is a good status absorber, and I haven't used (or considered) it so I'm probably underselling it, but Gurdurr is not so viable that it justifies trick room. I'm a Camerupt hater, but still, please don't consider it. You don't need fire coverage that badly in this meta and Arbo gets earth power.

And then there's Trevenant. I have no experience outside of PUWC with this mon, and we didn't use trick room on it. It has a movepool that could make Leafeon an S-tier, and it can set trick room or be a CB trick mon. It's worth a shot more than any of these last few mons, but I have absolutely no idea how it performs.


3. The Everything Else.

There is going to be less in this section than the other two, because I'm usually going all or nothing with trick room teams. Usually, it's a good idea to have a plan when trick room is down. I usually do this by using mons that don't need trick room to succeed, like Lurantis or Eelektross. Since they are both viable meta picks outside of the archetype while taking advantage of a TR, that tends to work for me on ladder. Choice Scarf mons or priority users are also pretty good in a 6th slot, since they can revenge something that is able to stall out your trick room turns and outspeed you.


And that's trick room. I was initially drawn to it because we had a lot of slow mons, and trick room is more viable than like Scarf Arbo. I encourage you to take a shot at trick room, because even the slow mons in this meta tend to invest in speed so you're bound to underspeed something. I probably missed something, so if your favorite tr sweeper is Rhydon or if I severely overhyped Lurantis let me know!


Teams, replays, etc:
The latest team I used in testing. A little imperfect (would av crab and specs claw) but still good
My secret santa gift from Melt Gibson, which is the only semi tr I played (explains a lot of my reasonings tbh, and thanks again)

Replays: Lurantis + claw game | the only other replay i saved, justifying mbounce (i did only test on ladder and i'm too lazy to grind it but i tried to get replays against solid teams)


TL;DR: Use OTR Spiritomb; use claw, crabominable, and carbink or hattrem on full tr; good slow stuff is also great in full/semi tr

 

[mothra_moth]

Give it to me straight. How long does Terrakion have here?

 

[Mugenman88]

So uh... yeah, tons of new toys! I see a few that might need to get the boot asap (terrakion and glastrier in particular) but let's just enjoy the new chaos. Here's something fun to try out while the dust is still flying.



Shiftry @ Life Orb
Ability: Wind Rider
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Tailwind
- Leaf Blade
- Knock Off
- Low Kick

When you set Tailwind you also get +1 to Attack at the same time, making it a pseudo Shift Gear that also benefits your team mates if you get forced out!

 

[Dorsia]

dropping is the best joke of the year but and are relatively insane too

I think I'll wait some days before building..bangun shooting left and right.

 

[Cuddly]

Ngl Terrakion goes hard. Can't wait to use it here.

 

[Welcome to mars]

dropping is the best joke of the year but and are relatively insane too

I think I'll wait some days before building..bangun shooting left and right.

Virizion is debatable but registeel is on terrakions level even without body press, so registeel is going to ruin pu and terrakion is going to straight up flatline it, also while i applaud the ladder for freeing up the golems, you people are on sinister stuff for stealing glaceon, its not even good

 

[asa]

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/np-stage-6-begin-again.3733546/ new metagame thread woah