QueenOfLuvdiscs
Tier 3 Audino sub
That wall of calcs hurt my eyes
Ice types are good and always will be in NU
Ice types are good and always will be in NU
Tbf tho they really have become a lot better because our bulky ass uxie left and skunk/shiftry pressured certain mons. The type of cores people use plays a huge factor into how good they are. The recent tier shift brought along the commoness of certain core that especially hate ice types.Ice types have always been hard to switch into in this meta as well as previous metas as most teams tend to run special walls that get pushed in by Ice-type attacks. Freeze Dry is also very prominent in NU which makes the list of things that can actually take a neutral attack even smaller. On top of this the majority of Ice-types that are threatening have a second dual stab that Pokemon such as Hariyama don't enjoy switching into. There coverage and lack of good defensive Steel-types is the main reason why Ice-types with Freeze Dry are so good. Also just use Grumpig if you're having trouble
Ice types are good and have always been good, the reason you dont see them to often / nobody tends to prep for them is that from a defensive stand point they tend to be really hard to build around due to the fact that Ice typing is pretty bad defensively.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aurorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Metang: 148-176 (45.8 - 54.4%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth RockUse RestTalk Metang. At least it does not get worn down over the match easily and it helps in checking Psychic-types as well as birdspam! Avalugg's EQ only 3HKO's and it can take one of Aurorus' Earth Powers... and the rest can't do jack against it.
tbh sdef cryogonal isnt that good what makes cryogonal amazing is its high speed tier that gets past a majority of NU mons wiht its powerful ice beam / freeze dry coverage. The sdef variant while bulky is completely susceptible to any variant of pursuit trapping and can't even take hits that well because of its low hp stat and shit defensive typing. Hell, Ludicolo, a pokemon which Cryogonal in theory should easily check can 2HKO cryo under rain. nah unless you are running icicle plate offensive there is very little reason to use Cryo over other defensive spinners. Nobody is saying it's bad, but its defensive set is in its entirety completely outclassedTbh the Ice type I think everyone is forgetting about is Cryogonal. Laugh at me all you want, but I think this thing is good (So long as you don't keep it in on physical attackers).
Sure 30 base Defense is absolutely horrible, HOWEVER, 135 base Sp. Def makes up for it imo (Cryo also has multiple ways of making up for its bad defense it it has room for it, such as Reflect and Acid Armor). That stat gives it an advantage over fellow ice type Jynx, along with better typing, a more reliable form of recovery, and a better speed tier (not including Scarf Jynx). It can also serve as a good special wall with toxic and recover, and not get smashed by t-spikes thanks to levitate, something no other ice type in the tier cannot claim. As for attacking, yes it has a bad movepool. But its special attack is only four less than aurorus, which is isn't bad at all. Not to mention it can run Rapid Spin if you really need it, though Claydol is better for this. My point is, do not write this thing off as inferior to other ice types, as it can be just as effective as the other ice types in NU.
My main issue with Cryogonal is how much it has to sacrifice to accomplish certain things. A defensive set with Reflect or Acid Armor helps patch up its Defense a bit, but then it becomes ridiculously weak and can't even 2HKO most frailer offensive Pokemon, which takes away the only good thing about its typing. An offensive set makes it less passive, but then you struggle heavily against Pursuit and the massive amount of priority in the tier, and still isn't ~that~ strong. I see you also compared its Special Attack to Aurorus, but Aurorus isn't really comparable because it runs Modest and has Refrigerate / the extra BP of Blizzard, so when that's taken out Cryo's power becomes pretty average (which is why I also think Rapid Spin is necessary to run on it, even if it isn't that good at spinning, since it's pretty outclassed otherwise).Tbh the Ice type I think everyone is forgetting about is Cryogonal. Laugh at me all you want, but I think this thing is good (So long as you don't keep it in on physical attackers).
Sure 30 base Defense is absolutely horrible, HOWEVER, 135 base Sp. Def makes up for it imo (Cryo also has multiple ways of making up for its bad defense it it has room for it, such as Reflect and Acid Armor). That stat gives it an advantage over fellow ice type Jynx, along with better typing, a more reliable form of recovery, and a better speed tier (not including Scarf Jynx). It can also serve as a good special wall with toxic and recover, and not get smashed by t-spikes thanks to levitate, something no other ice type in the tier cannot claim. As for attacking, yes it has a bad movepool. But its special attack is only four less than aurorus, which is isn't bad at all. Not to mention it can run Rapid Spin if you really need it, though Claydol is better for this. My point is, do not write this thing off as inferior to other ice types, as it can be just as effective as the other ice types in NU.
I find this funny, because Primeape + Skuntank has been fairly successful in my experiences, though this is mostly attributed to my other U-turn recipients such as Mesprit and Aurorus, which pick off pretty much everything else that walls Ape and isn't bothered by Skunk. Like Sawk is still pretty great, but I find Primeape to actually be a bit more flexible in this meta since people are prepping harder than ever for Sawk, be it by packing like two counters or just running mons faster than it, while Ape can dance around those counters easier (the only true Sawk counter in Granbull gets flat out 2HKOed by Defiant CB Ape's Close Combat :PPP) and has a better Speed tier to boot.Also i've found Skuntank + Sawk to be incredibly underwhelming so far in playing with and against it. I think this is because a lot of the best Sawk checks pre-skunk were mons like bulky Scyther, Garbodor and Weezing which can't be trapped effectively by Skunk anyways. Even the bulky Psychic and Ghost types that are supposed to be trapped by Skunk like Gourgeist-XL and Musharna, are fat enough that with a colbur berry, they can still be a stop to Sawk after being pursuited as well as potentially threaten skunk with status (wisp from geist, t-wave / yawn from pivot mush).
Considering you have to run over 100 Speed EVs to keep up with both those threats, that's a pretty hefty decrease in bulk compared to Gourgeist-XL (although an easily affordable 24 EVs can outrun Adamant Rhydon). Gourgeist-L also makes u slightly weaker against Fighting-types and Tauros, so at that point u'd probably want to consider maybe Colbur Gourgeist-S to handle Mawile and Rhydon while still dealing with Fighting-types well.: I have to give credit where credit is due, so thanks to QueenOfLuvdiscs for getting me hooked on Gourgeist-Large. Yes that's right it's Gourgeist-Large, not XL, and the reason behind this is simply due to the extra speed. Large-Geist does not lose very much bulk compared to its XL form, however the extra speed that goes along with it allows it to outspeed key physical threats like Adamant Mawile and Jolly Rhydon, get a burn on them, and beat them 1-on-1.
ah ok, sorry bout that QueenOfLuvdiscs looks like innovation doesnt always come throughAny speed tier Gourgeist-Large can hit can also be hit by a bulky spread on Gourgeist-Small or a fast spread on Gourgeist-Super, but with more bulk. I've done a bunch of calcs before to prove this; Gourgeist-Large has literally no niche whatsoever over Small or Super.
sadly that isn't up to anyone, as pokemon are kept into tiers depending on their usage on the ladder. http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...pdate-august-2015.3545972/page-7#post-6436296 those are the stats from last month, so if the pokemon in question drop under 3.14% usage in RU we could potentially get them in the coming monthsMaybe they should add Cinccino, Gothitelle, and Ambipom to NU.