Metagame NP: Stage 9 - Ex-Factor (Iron Thorns and Oricorio-Pom-Pom Banned)

[etern]

The DLC 2 Shift is upon us and once again the power level of the tier has risen!

OU to NU

RU to NU:

NU to RU:

Full Tier Shift

Bastiodon moved from OU to NU
Flygon moved from OU to NU
Hitmontop moved from OU to NU
Lapras moved from OU to NU
Meganium moved from OU to NU
Regigigas moved from OU to NU
Scrafty moved from OU to NU

Alcremie moved from OU to PU
Bellossom moved from OU to PU
Dewgong moved from OU to PU
Dodrio moved from OU to PU
Emboar moved from OU to PU
Exeggutor moved from OU to PU
Granbull moved from OU to PU
Hitmonchan moved from OU to PU
Lanturn moved from OU to PU
Magmortar moved from OU to PU
Malamar moved from OU to PU
Meowstic moved from OU to PU
Minun moved from OU to PU
Plusle moved from OU to PU
Regice moved from OU to PU
Regirock moved from OU to PU
Registeel moved from OU to PU
Sceptile moved from OU to PU
Terrakion moved from OU to PU
Toucannon moved from OU to PU
Vileplume moved from OU to PU
Virizion moved from OU to PU
Zebstrika moved from OU to PU

Chansey moved from NU to RU
Decidueye-Hisui moved from NU to RU

Politoed moved from RU to NUBL
Chandelure moved from RU to NU
Cloyster moved from RU to NU
Diancie moved from RU to NU
Dragalge moved from RU to NU
Espeon moved from RU to NU
Iron Thorns moved from RU to NU
Overqwil moved from RU to NU
Staraptor moved from RU to NU
Thundurus moved from RU to NU

Duraludon moved from PUBL to NU
Palossand moved from PU to NU
Rhydon moved from ZUBL to NU

Furthermore, we are UNBANNING the entirety of NUBL as we're working with an essentially brand new tier again. This means that Cetitan , Drednaw , Inteleon , Snorlax , Oricorio-Pom-Pom , Slowbro-Galar , and Politoed are all unbanned and legal to use in NU for the time being. (Tagging Marty and Kris to implement, tyvm)

You can expect the first voting slate of the month to occur sometime towards the middle of this week, with the intention of somewhat stabalizing the tier by next week. Until then, let us know what you think of the new metagame, what's working and what isn't, what's broken, and what would you like to see stay. ​

 

[bodi]

S Rank : (+)

A Rank :

B Rank :

C Rank :

 

[Banned Deucer (Banned)]

I'm more of an observer when it comes to competitive but I tend to jump in if a tier looks fun. I've used some of the mons who dropped earlier today, and here are my thoughts:

Easy top tier but it's not dominating quite as hard as it did in PU. I can see a ban happening when the tier settles down, but I don't think it will get kicked upstairs more than that.

Just about nothing walls a specs set, so I can imagine that being inhibiting. Scarf sets also seem a bit scary.

Honestly amazing how hard it hits. I've used Double Edge/Brave Bird/Close Combat to chunk through walls (even the walls that resist it take a lot), and even Quick Attack can do some serious damage in desperate situations. I don't even run Choice Band. It's likely to get out of hand.

Does the thing it's been doing since it got Shell Smash. I feel like it's hard to get into the field, but letting it set up can win games. Body Press!Registeel can check it quite well and it likes being able to set up without being brutalized, so it's not invincible, but mons that rely on explosive boosts tend to get banned and stuck in limbo. I also wonder how it compares to Drednaw. We'll see.

Not broken at all, and it's likely settling into the tier for real. I've had some weird sweeps with Tera Fighting Iron Defense + Body Press. Likely to be good for the tier overall.

I've also seen Hitmontop a couple of times, usually running Rapid Spin and Intimidate. Smells like a noob trap.

 

[Welcome to mars]

Terrakion is good and potentially broken (only potentially is shocking for a pokemon banned from gen 8 uubl) and registeel is a menace but hes not literally unkillable like in pu, both are do have checks, but its hard to for anything to actually counter certain registeel sets however galarian goatbro checks double dance registeel with its 4x resistance to body press and it handles choice scarf terrakion surprising well, ground types can beat registeel without iron defenses, if we do get to banning, registeel should be quick banned in my personal opinion, too much set diversity and a lot of them like curse and double dance and potentially sweep if gived set up, terrakion slighty more debatable for me but i believe a qb or quick suspect test is fitting for this beast

 

[grizord]

I'm kind of disappointed with . It's a strong mon, no questions, but his type leave him vulnerable to almost every offense mon in the tier forcing you to use tera to survive most attacks. Losing Rock Polish is also another huge hit, since it can't boost speed without a choice scarf or Stick web support.
It can't come on fire moves because of the risk of a burn, it can absorve Knock off to get a +1 attack, but you'll lose your item, and every user of a rock move has coverage to pressure him.

That being said, Fight+Rock is almost perfect coverage beside Palossand (easily destroyed by any special attack mon).
Loaded Dice+Rock Blast is an alternative to Stone Miss that can destroy opposing lead pokemons.
Tera Fighting CC 2ko almost everything and Tera Water, Fairy and Flying provide nice utility and resistances to flip matchups.

remains the supreme queen of NU, and now with Tera it can stay alive forever. You can choose to use Toxic on the last slot or opt for Growth which helps with the passive nature.

and are decent hazard removers now, Mon a little better because of the higher speed, Knock off and Sword Dance+ Recover on Drain Punch. Obviously the ladder will not give up on making Top the superior meme again, but at least it has a decent offensive presence and CC+Technician Triple axel+ Spin grants you some utility.

This guy can be scarry under veil, Boost+DDance+Coverage can easily destroy most teams.

Is ok. Still doesn't have reliable recover and it can be frail and weak in most scenarios, but its prob one the best mons to save you against Rain.

Also, Rain is pretty broken. , , .We still don't have enough water counter pokemons and every rain abuser can perform and provide something unique to the playstyle.

 

[Shagg51]

I have no idea to process what the hell happened to this tier, so I’ll just leave a couple of thoughts.

is an absolute demon and I refuse to believe otherwise. Magic bounce makes it a good pick for hyper offense, but espeon can use that itself to make it immune to disruptions like scream tail’s encore or umbreon’s toxic and set up on them. With Tera, it becomes a ticking time bomb capable of pulling a 6-0 whenever it wants. I genuinely think espeon needs to leave, as nice as it is having a good magic bouncer

Man, what’s a polar bear doing in Arlington Texas

I haven’t fought any cloysters yet, but it’s mere presence applies tons of pressure on the builder and I know a lot of people already hate it.

I refuse to believe gen 9 is real. I don’t even know if staraptor is broken at the moment, but it definitely will be once the blatantly broken mons leave. It’s a faster and stronger Flamigo for crying out loud! It takes more rocks chip, but still.

I hate this Mon with a burning passion. Tera turns it from a strong, but manageable threat, to a borderline unstoppable beast with a horrendously unhealthy impact on the tier. Wouldn’t mind seeing him leave whatsoever.

blows up the entire tier with very low difficulty. I’ve tried it and it’s just so strong. If this switches in, something is dying and there’s a great chance that it won’t be chandy.

this… concerns me. As a special attacker, it has no trouble wearing down defensive staples like umbreon with sludge bomb and can pivot with flip turn. Goodra was already strong, and this feels like one that has been turned up to 11.

I wanna know who thought this was a good idea.

through all of the chaos of this tier, I’m happy that at I ended up finding ONE drop I like.

I’m gonna have to play more to get a better idea of my feelings on NU, so until next time!

 

[Lunar Sloth]

Havent played NU in a bit but the recent drops seemed like a fun time to start playing again :D
These are just some impressions/things I thought were interesting from the new drops and some old mons after messing around on ladder.

: This thing is broken definitely. CB is almost impossible to switch in to. Basically the only thing that can really answer it that has reliable recovery is Palossand. Scarf is very viable as well, and SD sets are scary too. Funny thing is +2 Tera Blast ghost/ice ohkos palossand with rocks, so it can muscle its way past it. Definitely feels too powerful.

: The one reliable check to most Terrak sets. Honestly just a good bulky ground overall. Reliable instant recovery and amazing phys def lets it sponge most physical attackers, and also sets rocks. Scorching Sands burning things that think theyre safe to come in, like Tsareena, is amazing.

: Shell Smashers with tera are so frustrating to play against. It is fairly predictable in what it does but can easily win a lost game if it's an unexpected tera. I have encounter like 5-6 different teras while laddering lol. It dies to almost anything on the special side which helps it not be fully stupid, but I really dislike how threatening it is with tera. I imagine Drednaw willl be similarly obnoxious when it is freed.

: Honestly didn't seem too broken to me but definitely felt good. Specs and scarf both seem quite nice, and Trick is useful for crippling support pokemon or setup sweepers. Its sheer power is noticeable and Energy Ball is great coverage for it. I imagine calm mind sets are good too but havent really seen it as much.

: Solid spinner with good utility in Knock Off, Taunt, and U-turn. It threatens basically every rock setter minus Scream Tail with it's high attack and good coverage. Triple Axel is a fun returning move for it.

: Priority Twave saved me a good amount when I was playing. Tera Blast Ice lets it be a nice late game cleaner too. It's speed tier is quite good notably outspeeding non-scarf terrakion. NP sets are very powerful too ofc. Really enjoyed using this mon, seems *super* good.

& : These both felt terrifying with their CM + Agility sets. I felt forced to trick scarf to reliably deal with them.

: Hard to answer defensively, but it kills itself pretty easily through recoil. Didn't fight it too much, but didn't seem broken to me. I can imagine boots sets with Roost to help offset the recoil could be viable, but then you need to give up momentum in U-turn or the coverage of CC which is unfortunate. I'm sure this will still be fine though, its power is obscene despite its flaws. EDIT: apparently it lost roost anyway lol

: This mon has a lot of fun things it can do. Can be a general utility mon with rocks and spikes which is always appreciated. It's stab combo actually feels quite useful in the tier right now and chunks a lot, even with no investment. Lack of reliable recovery is a bit annoying however. Another set in Diamond Storm/Bpress/CM/Draining Kiss with Tera Poison is irritating to deal with if you don't have something that can pressure it quickly.

: Good ol Umbreon always stays useful. Being able to answer almost any special attacker and cripple things with your choice of status move (yawn/twave/toxic). I've enjoyed twave mainly. Tera poison is of course very nice for being able to take fighting/fairy hits easily and becoming immune to poison. Protect is always useful for scouting choiced users like terrak so that you can pivot around it a bit easier.

: I'm not sure if it's because Palossand is everywhere due to Terrak, but I felt a bit underwhelmed fighting Thorns. I'm sure it's still good though. It has amazing power, decent enough speed, and Taunt.

: I'm really sad this lost roost. DD still feels decent enough with its great stab combo and speed even if it isn't too strong initially. Scarf seems quite nice outspeeding most other scarfers and revenge killing a lot.

: I didn't see this much but it impressed me a lot. Great defensive grass with access to options such as strength sap, leech, and sleep powder. It's high base special attack lets it not be too passive as well. Chlorophyll sets could maybe be fun also since it did get Weather Ball as a nice gift this gen.

Even though it's been chaotic, it's been fun messing around with all the new toys!

 

[turtledoggo1]

Some early meta thoughts on the new pokemon (pre NUBL drops). Hopefully sprites work on this post lol

Danger Zone (Mons that, while I don't know if they should be QB'd, should be carefully monitored over the next few days)

Everyone is prepping for it on ladder, so its impact on a game-to-game basis is not as much as I expected. However, it's hard to deny how punishing it can be sometimes, threatening OHKOs on most switches, and its restrictive impact on teambuilding (hi palossand!). Oftentimes games can revolve around if the Terrakion user lands their stone edge... which i'm not sure if that's too healthy.

It's just pure cheese and spirals extremely quick. Though, admittedly I haven't had much trouble in dealing with it; registeel, qwilfish, water tauros, and a well-timed tera have usually been enough for me, which makes me hesitant to also call for a QB.

A faster and harder hitting Flamigo, has very little switchins. Its rocks weakness can be hard to ignore, but I wouldn't mind it being gone.

Threats (Should probably always have a gameplan for these mons, might be more problematic down the line)

Double dance sets are really strong, capable of cheesing through teams extremely quick with the right tera, or with draining kiss in general lol. Defensive sets are otherwise pretty healthy, it's just offensive sets that make me weary around this mon.

Chandelure will probably always pick up a KO whenever it hits the field. There's very little defensive counterplay, besides whenever Snorlax gets re-released. It's very prone to hazards and pretty slow, though, which makes it easy to revenge kill. I've been enjoying a sub + flame charge to setup on passive Pokemon, while also fixing its speed flaw.

Questionable so far but with bulky grounds essentially being mandated right now, its tera reliance and low speed even after a boost, it hasn't felt * that * oppressive to me, but it can feel very scary at times once it gets going.

Very good meta mons!!!

Love that flygon is back!!! it sucks it lost its defensive utility but as a scarfer it feels so good to use. No spikes weakness while still being faster than flamigo, etc... is a huge boon, while the electric immunity is still super nice as well into thundurus teams.

Speaking of which, i'm not sure what to make of this mon. It has a valuable defensive typing, and it can be quite threatening with NP, but it hasn't really done anything notable in any of the games I've played with it.

Registeel is here! and it does so much right now as a stat wall and rocker. It is such an anti-bs and cheese mon and compresses so many roles as a rocker, steel-type, and hard hitter (sorry copper) and I think it's top tier for sure.

Some other notes:

- I haven't ran into many Dragalge so far but it hasn't done anything impressive in the games I've played so far. Balances will always have defensive counterplay via registeel, copperajah, klefki, etc... and there's softer checks too like diancie (and soon glowbro/lax lol).
- I really enjoy Espeon's presence in the tier, it's a much needed additional form of hazard control and its speed is invaluable too at picking off things like... terrakion.
- flamigo is still good! haven't really seen it at all recently but it still preforms quite well

Here are the teams I've been using since release:

psychic terrain HO


sub chandy balance


double dance diancie


Overall I've been having a lot of fun, and im quite excited for the NUBL drops. I think glowbro and rain will be definitely interesting. Also, my opinions r 100% subject to change, i'll probably post in a week with completely different views on these mons.

 

[Incinerawr]

I don't play NU that much so take this with a grain of salt, but rain seems to be shaping up to be extremely dominant and I genuinely think the best anti-rain mon is going to be Lanturn.

You have the choice between volt absorb and water absorb, personally I think water absorb is going to be better because of the drednaw, but volt absorb can also mess up thundurus / oricorio which I imagine will probably be a staple on rain.
Lanturns biggest issue is it's lack of reliable recovery, so it relies on proccing volt/water absorb to heal.

I think an offensive set might be okay? 76 special attack is absolutely pitiful but max special attack + specs gives it just enough power to be decently threatening. Max HP politoed is 2HKO'd by it, it has just enough bulk to not get instantly cooked by drednaw, and can actually hit extremely hard with hydro pump under rain. It's also extremely light so grass knot from thundurus doesn't threaten it at all, and it can actually wall a lot of rain threats with tera ground + water absorb.

I also think it might be decent on rain? It's certainly no drednaw offensively but I think it's pretty decent, and can actually get value unconditionally, rather than relying on your opponent to bring rain.

or run illuminate

 

[Shagg51]

Posting my thoughts on rain before it gets banned because HOLY SHIT ITS STRONG!!!!!

is the man behind it all. Despite not having the same utility as, say, peliper, it still works well and has its own support kit with options like encore to prevent setup and hypnosis to enable its teammates to set up. It’s not even too passive either, as weather ball stings to a good chunk of the tier. The tier is not at all ready for Politoed and what it enables. Speaking of rain abusers though…

this is the best one if you ask me. If it gets up a shell smash under rain, it becomes the fastest Mon in the tier excluding a scarfed ditto. On top of this, Drednaw hits like an absolute freight train and is incredibly hard to stop. It also happens to be a phenomenal user of Tera, by using it to boost the power of its attacks to even more dizzying heights, to flip a matchup on its head and use it as a set up opportunity, or both. Even without rain this thing is a beast, but with the rain? This clears terrakion in terms of threat level by a mile! I don’t see this sticking around for long, even after Politoed gets banned.

is another exceptional rain abuser with an incredibly unique type combination. It’s got decent speed for a swift swimmer and it also has access to swords dance, allowing its already strong attacks like gunk shot to punch through even the bulkiest targets. I have grown to really like Tera stellar on overqwil, as that allows it to more easily punch through a given target with any of its three moves(I run crunch, gunk shot and liquidation). Rain definitely breaks overqwil, but without it, it feels much more manageable.

Is still an amazing breaker for rain with its powerful choice band wave crashes but I’ve been trying out Tera blast-grass on it as a means to blow away water types, most notably lanturn. It packs the most immediate power of all the rain abusers while also being the fastest, which makes it a very valuable pick, especially for the rain mirror, as swift swim floatzel outruns everything excluding what is effectively a +4 Drednaw. I don’t have much else to say. It’s just really good.

is a really solid addition to your rain teams. Moreso than thundurus I would argue, as jolteon is capable of beating most thundurus. With weather ball, you also have a coverage option for grounds that doesn’t require Tera. It’s quite squishy, but I think it’s a great choice.

Before I leave, I will mention something I’ve been trying. I’ve been experimenting with espeon a bit as a pivot with magic bounce and I came up with this…

@ Eject Button
Ability: Magic Bounce
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Yawn
- Future Sight
- Curse
- Alluring Voice

Hear me out… I swear I’m cooking…

Espeon lacks the same support that Hattrem did, as it doesn’t have healing wish, but it does have *one* way to pivot. Yawn and future sight are standard support options that exist to apply pressure, and alluring voice is great coverage, but what’s the deal with curse? Why would espeon, a speedy special attacker, run curse? Curse boosting espeon’s defense can occasionally save it from dying in one shot to a physical attack, instead triggering it’s eject button, but that’s not the main reason I’m running it. If I absolutely need to, espeon can terastallize into a ghost type and use curse to cut its HP in half, likely killing itself as espeon very rarely survives a hit with over half its health left, and also applying pressure with the 25% damage that comes from the curse. Espeon taking itself out allows it to pivot into one of its teammates who can take advantage of the curse chip or just the free switch. It definitely enters gimmicky territory, but I think it’s pretty cool.

 

[Serviperhater]

I’m having a lot of fun in the current metagame and I want to wait a little longer before I talk about all of the new drops to nu and all the pu relevant ones, but I want to talk about all the broken things before they get banned.
this little dude right here. he’s amazingly at enabling all the rain teams down here. while obviously not having the utility or pivoting of of ous Pelliper (plz give the poli line flip turn so nu doesn’t have to deal with rain next gen), he has lots of great traits like drizzle… but in all seriousness encore is an amazing support option to stop set up sweepers and surfs boosted by rain hit decently hard. but the things that makes it broken is all the amazing swift swimmers down here Floatzel is an amazing breaker in rain as always, overqwil has a unique typing for a swift swimmer and has two good stab options in crunch and gunk shot, and dreadnaw outspeeds everything after one shell smash in rain. thunderus is a potent special attacker further bolstered by rain provided by Politoed. all of the threats are too much for the tier with manual rain currently and I think it’ll definitely leave.
I feel like both of these are crazy strong and have the potential to be banned but rn I feel like dreadnaw is the better one for the higher speed tier and Tera dark deals with prankster Klefki thunder waves. both have amazing abilities with skill link and strong jaw. amazing mons on offensive structures that can easily tear apart the opponents team is unprepared, not sure if cloyster is really broken though.
terrakion is an amazing mon with limited defensive counter play. even with pallosand in the tier (who is threatened easily by special attackers) he is easily revenged by faster offensive mons with super effective moves, but nothing can ever switch into its amazing stab combo. he’s definitely a little too much right now.

I’ll got ahead and talk about the next few mons because I’ve seen people call them broken but I’m not seeing it. pretty sure it just trying to cope with our Uubl bird and ru chandelier falling from there pedestal.
he kills himself and is weak to rocks. is extremely strong but it can easily be pressured. not banworthy.
strong mon but it’s speed tier is only ok. works well in sun. I like this addition to the tier.
edit: I didn’t have cetitan on my original post and he’s on the slate. yeah belly drum + priority on a bulky attacker that can work in weather as a fast game ender or outside as a bulky belly drum mon. yeah he’s a bit much. he breaks through most of the tier with ice+ground coverage that nothing outside of the not otherwise very good orthworm and bronzong resist. hes good. in hail avalugg hard counters him and the two steels mentioned above counter him outside of hail. he’s also slow without slush and even with it he as outsped by several scarfers and revenged but not without dealing heavy damage with stab ice shard. probably going to have to say ban on this.

 

[Lucario]

hi, i wanted to speak on things. this month we saw the drops of some broken pokemon, and some not broken pokemon, as well as terrakion, lol.

Brokens

get rain out of here. Nothing is able to stop the combination of Floatzel + Thundurus, let alone the other rain sweepers in Tornadus and Overqwil.

remember blastoise in ss? now think of that, but with less checks and more damage. Get these 2 outta here.

both are insanely strong in a meta where they don't have to deal with chansey sitting on them. inteleon was banned before, but toxtricity is still insanely strong with less splashable checks.

bulky set up sweepers that do not die. they have no place in this tier while they have access to tera poison.

Almost Broken

this is a top 5 mon in the tier right now thanks to its defensive profile. however, bulky idcm bpress sets are annoying and have maybe 1 check. overall this is a great pokemon that I wouldn't mind keeping in the tier, despite its almost broken set.

strong mon with 3 good sets. specs is slow but very strong while scarf is still a little slow but decently strong. outplaying this can be annoying thanks to trick, but overall this is a 50/50 mon, you either hard wall it or you get 6-0d by it.

This has a very good speed tier, most notably outspeeding terrakion and meloetta. on its own its a very potent mon and is fun to use, but with tera it can be hard to deal with. I'm not sure if its qb worthy, but it is something to watch out for in the future.

Not Broken

I said it. this pokemon is balanced, you just don't like using offensive counterplay. We do have defensive checks, like vileplume, gligar, mudsdale, palossand, and diancie, however they can all be overpowered by its use of tera. unfortunately, it can only use one tera type per battle, it cannot be all of flying, fighting, and ghost at once. There are more defensive checks but i cba to list them all. offensively you can revenge it with faster pokemon like inteleon, electrode-h, tornadus, thundurus, espeon, and scream tail. this isn't even including the priority options such as aqua jet from bruxish, floatzel, and pauros-aqua, mach punch or bullet punch from hitmontop and hariyama, and quick claw/draw glowbro. unlike earlier iterations of the tier, we finally have good scarf users like flygon, rotom-c, flamigo, your own terrakion, staraptor, heracross, chandelure, meloetta, florges, pauros-aqua, toxtricity, and zoroark (and more!). we have ways of beating this pokemon, stop saying its broken when it isn't.

has this thing obtained a single ko yet? I love staraptor but it is bad, please do not use it.

????????????? use a ghost type or gligar and this cannot break your team.

I can see this being higher on the radar. I have it as balanced because it's hard to fit on teams imo. whenever I want a dragon I want to use goodra or duraludon, if I want a poison then I'll use vileplume or overqwil. This is still very good, though.

We are not calling this broken when we have really good steel-types and some very great dark-types.

Nobody has really talked about this. idk how I feel about it, it's good, could be broken, but hard to say rn with everything else we have in the tier. ban quick claw

 

[Phantomistix]

I think and are p much a guaranteed ban at this point but I wanted to talk about some other stuff people have been mentioning ahead of today’s slate.

It’s hard to tell if this would be broken without rain in the tier. Considering we’re having another slate over the weekend, I say keep it unbanned for now and get rain out then re-evaluate.

Scrafty has to go. The other 2 I’m not so sure about. The current meta is very unfavorable for both and it’s hard to get them going. I’d hold off on a ban for lax and diancie for now.

dnb

 

[etern]

The first council slate of 2024 has come to a close, special thanks to Phantomistix DugZa and Lucario for filling in as rotating council. Keep in mind that this was a smaller slate made with the intention of quickly removing the most egregiously overpowered sweepers from the tier in order to more accurately assess the presence of other new threats.

Cloyster, Cetitan, Politoed, and Drednaw have been banned from NU! tagging Marty and Kris to implement this, thank you.

We will be closely monitoring the metagame following these bans and running a second and larger council slate this weekend which will include Terrakion and a bunch of other Pokemon. Let us know what you'd like to see included in this slate and how the metagame feels without the constricting presence of Rain, Cloyster, and Cetitan Snow.

 

[Machineae]

Last gens meme dream is my current answer to a lot of this chaotic meta pre the big slate™ coming this weekend. Its coverage speaks for itself- Triple Axel/CC/Spin/Bullet Punch in combination with tera Steel has been working a treat for me. I'm just rolling w/ AV 252+ Atk, you can speedcreep if you want but I ain't stressing it. Depending on the results of the ban slate this may not be terribly relevant in 48hrs or so



If you just want some numbers that exist entirely in a vacuum you can click on the spoiler below- might make you wanna consider Top as your spinner for your next build in lieu of reena/tatsu. It's just for some of the common complained about mons rn but the set does great into other common (or should be common) stuff rn like Thundy/Dragalge/Pomcorio/Palo but a noteworthy blind spot is Chandy

here

252+ Atk Technician Tera Steel Hitmontop Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 188-224 (58.2 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

If you've put any work over the course of the game whether it be hazards, helmet chip, saccing something that is already gonna go down, BP should clean up nicely.


T1 (Diancie switching into Top) 252+ Atk Technician Tera Steel Hitmontop Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Diancie: 96-114 (31.5 - 37.5%) -- approx. 0% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
into ->
T2
252+ Atk Technician Tera Steel Hitmontop Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Diancie: 192-228 (63.1 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Not that I've run into any 252+ Def Diancie but I rather account for the roughest scenario. The more common lead set that leans into spdef takes 82-96 from bpunch

If THAT wasn't enough, we have some heartfelt, extremely convincing testimonials

 

[Kiyo]

Last gens meme dream is my current answer to a lot of this chaotic meta pre the big slate™ coming this weekend. Its coverage speaks for itself- Triple Axel/CC/Spin/Bullet Punch in combination with tera Steel has been working a treat for me. I'm just rolling w/ AV 252+ Atk, you can speedcreep if you want but I ain't stressing it. Depending on the results of the ban slate this may not be terribly relevant in 48hrs or so



If you just want some numbers that exist entirely in a vacuum you can click on the spoiler below- might make you wanna consider Top as your spinner for your next build in lieu of reena/tatsu. It's just for some of the common complained about mons rn but the set does great into other common (or should be common) stuff rn like Thundy/Dragalge/Pomcorio/Palo but a noteworthy blind spot is Chandy

here

252+ Atk Technician Tera Steel Hitmontop Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 188-224 (58.2 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

If you've put any work over the course of the game whether it be hazards, helmet chip, saccing something that is already gonna go down, BP should clean up nicely.


T1 (Diancie switching into Top) 252+ Atk Technician Tera Steel Hitmontop Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Diancie: 96-114 (31.5 - 37.5%) -- approx. 0% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
into ->
T2
252+ Atk Technician Tera Steel Hitmontop Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Diancie: 192-228 (63.1 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Not that I've run into any 252+ Def Diancie but I rather account for the roughest scenario. The more common lead set that leans into spdef takes 82-96 from bpunch

If THAT wasn't enough, we have some heartfelt, extremely convincing testimonials
View attachment 588540

gr8 minds think alike

Big agree with Hitmontop being a solid pick right now. I've had a little trouble building/finding teams that have the right balance of speed with it, but admittedly the priority stacking helps with that issue. I think it has this unique interaction with Terrakion where if your opponent is lazy and just focuses on checking Terrakion with their primary Fighting switch-in they can find themselves really struggling to switch into Triple Axel. Bulldoze is decent coverage for Qwilfish and Chandelure. As Machinae described above, Technician Bullet Punch is really strong especially if boosted by Tera and it has other priority options in Mach Punch and Sucker Punch that are decent too.

 

[carbonlifeform]

The same Diancie set that carried me to top 5 in RU in the pre-DLC meta continues to put in stupid amounts of work here.

Diancie @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Draining Kiss
- Earth Power
- Iron Defense

Diamond Storm and Body Press are well and good on utility sets, but if you want an offensive Diancie set, I really think this is the one. Tera Fairy Draining Kiss is one of the dumbest things in the game, and there's no need to mess with Body Press when Earth Power is right there to hit every Fairy resist that isn't Bronzong.

It may seem like a knock-off Enam-T, but I honestly think that Diancie's improved innate bulk (giving it plenty of room to invest in SpA) + Clear Body and even its slightly better speed actually let it pull off this set better. Lower HP is also a boon in some ways, as it means Draining Kiss is restoring a larger percentage of your HP in case you need to battle through a Toxic or the like.

Somebody suggested Cloak as an alternative to Leftovers back in the RU Metagame thread , which was a really nice way to avoid Iron Head flinches and Sludge Bomb poisons, but I'm not seeing much in the tier right now that makes it an attractive option. If Bisharp or even Decidueye-H drop (nothing more annoying than somehow losing your bulky Fairy to Thousand Arrows flinch + crit hax), then that definitely becomes worth slashing in.

Anyway, thought I would throw this out there, since I've seen a couple of people talk about Diancie being on the bubble already.

On a different note, anybody having fun and/or success with Flygon sets outside of DD/Choice Scarf? I've been running Rocks/First Impression/EQ/U-Turn with LO as a utility pivot, and it's been feeling pretty good, especially partnered with Scream Tail.

As for DD sets, I feel like I've seen a lot of Tera Steel, which is... confusing to me. 100% get Steel for Scarf/other pivot sets, but Tera Fire feels like the clear stronger choice for DD sets:

• Still flips your Ice/Fairy weaknesses
• Still takes advantage of Levitate to flip a weakness into an immunity
• Water+Rock weaknesses feels like an upgrade over Fighting+Fire
• Burn immunity more than makes up for the smaller number of total resistances
• Makes Fire Punch vastly more reliable
• The rocks weakness feels like it shouldn't be a deal breaker on a mon that gives no effs about hazards before it's clicks Tera and isn't likely to get multiple chances to set up anyway

So, to you smart people who have been playing the tier for longer than 3 days, I ask: what am I missing? Have I just not played enough games at >1300 elo yet and Tera Steel DD Flygon is just an illusion?

 

[etern]

Second slate of the week has come to an end! Here are the results:

Therefore, Terrakion and Inteleon are banned from SV NU via council slate! Marty Kris

We'll likely conduct another slate sometime next weekend after getting more data from NU Circuit Playoffs and W2 of NUCL. Until then, let us know what you think about the meta without Terrak and Intel, who are the top dogs and who do you think should be on the council's radar?

 

[skierdude101]

NUCL Week 1 SV Review:

I'm curious of the meta developments that may have come from the first week of NUCL, so I wanted to quickly go over each of them to see if they provide any info on the meta.

Overall, we saw much more balance (sorry if i classified any of the teams wrong!) this week than i think any of us expected, which I think is a good sign. People felt comfortable that the teams they made weren't going to be easily overrun by HO cheese, and with a few more bans/slates we should have a pretty stable tier where we can start developing a meta!

Dr.PhdBJ vs zeeLitium: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ru-737592?p2 [HO vs Balancey kinda thing]
First game of the week, and we get an HO into balancey game. Off preview, it looks like zeeLitium has tools to survive the onslaught, but its very possible to just get overrun by a few plays, particularly if the RK9 breaks early. I don't think there was much of an unhealthy element in this game, both players made some good plays and it was a fun game to watch. Something that was apparent to me was how flamigo had kinda fallen out of favor due to our shiny new fighting type, Terrakion. Seeing it in action reminded me how threatening its stab combo is and how beneficial scarfer with u-turn is. Sure, flamigo and terrak are competing for the fighting slot, but flamigo definitely wasnt made irrelevant by terrakion.

zS vs Elias: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-737601 [Balance vs Balance]
One of the highlight matches of the week. Both players are on NU council and have proven to each be unique, competent, builders and players in NU. Both players brought balance teams with an interesting pick or two. The highlight pokemon from this game really came from zS' team. Vileplume was back at it with its SS behavior, spreading status and feeling unkillable. Definitely a mon that I expect to become part of the NU defensive backbone. Chandelure ran into a bad matchup of Umbreon, which I think showed that while it can be a great balance breaker, it is possible to defensively check it. Porygon2 showed that it has the bulk to play with the NU tier and despite losing some key tools, its still a useful pick with trace.

Phantom vs Floss: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-737667?p2 [Balance vs BO]
This game showed the power of Terrakion into the non offense matchup. The pokemon basically claimed a kill every time it came out. Its overall stats are simply too high compared to the rest of the tier. It also showed the consistency of flygon just being a good but not broken tool on a team. I think Phantom misplayed into the registeel maybe by not attacking and instead boosting and subbing? Regardless though, i think this was a good showcase of how threatening late-game Regi can be with Tera and when you're opponent already used theirs.

avarice vs Kiyo: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-737690 [HO vs Offense]
Aren't we happy cloyster is banned? Now we dont have to use scarf thundurus. Our first look at Psychic Terrain. Last gen the playstyle ended up being overbearing for the tier because Indd+scept was a devestating combination. Indd is much worse this gen without expanding force, and while sceptile certainly enjoys using tera itself, its fraility makes it suscpetible to the opponent defensively tera'ing to KO it. Neither unburden mon was particulary impressive in this game. I don't think we have to worry about psychic terrain just yet.

berald vs bouff: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-737783 [BO? v Balance]
Our first Scrafty game! I was surprised to see DD scrafty and I was abit disappointed it didnt do more that game. It seemed like it had a great matchup, but it instead died an early death to Avalugg. I think bouff would have had an easier time if they had just tera'd the avalugg early, since berald was mostly packing physical hitters. Overall, not much to take away from this game.

tnunes vs snaga: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-737834 [HO vs BO]
This game highlighted that Glast is still a good body on HO teams, forcing big damage or trades that can be vital for HO. We have another game here where Terrakion goes pretty hard. This one has TeraBlast Ghost and we see how devistating that can be for a frailer team that lacks some immediate speed. This was just a well played game that showcased how good Terrakion can be (although this seemed more like a Tera moment).

mncmt vs THE STRAP: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-737852 [Balance vs Terrain BO?]
this game made terrain look a bit better, although i think the copperajah was really the star of the game. Chandelure falls flat this game into a faster team, but does manage to force an early tera. Porygon2 showed off how bulky it is, and how amazing the color yellow can be. The unburden sweepers again didnt really do much.

felines vs feen: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-737891 [balance vs balance]
This game showed off the power of vileplum again, fending off multiple physical attackers and just overall being a pain for feen to deal with. It forced an early Scrafty tera that made it harder for the scrafty to setup and win for itself. Another DD? scrafty game, in which it put pressure on the opponent, but it was handled. On another note, thundurus just didnt do much. Its presense was felt and useful, but it wasnt forcing difficult choices.

taka vs leni: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ru-738079 [HO vs Balance]
Not much to say on this one. Losing Registeel to Dbond lead was just poor play, and then cloytser just broke the rest of the defensive backbone. The rest of the HO squad could each kinda just pick off the rest of leni's team at that point.

wadley vs acid: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9nu-738249 [Bo vs balance]
This game looked like some SS, with Scrafty, Tsar, Fairy on each team. Wadley tera's his scrafty which seems a bit early. Then manages to trade tsareen for 50% of sylveon's HP. This enables Terakion to grab an early regi KO which makes florges much harder to deal with in the long term. At this point, acid's wincon seems pretty clearly to be Scrafty. Its seems pretty dicey, but with some correct turns, the scrafty is kept at bay. And worst case, it would have been a Scrafty BU mirror till someone crits. This is a game that made me a bit uncomfrtable with scrafty. Both players games were played around positioning their own while not losing to their opponents.

ski vs obb: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-738361 [Terrain HO vs BO]
This game showcased that scream tail's still got it. Again, the unburden sweepers do not accomplish much, and the terrain setters are quite bad. Iron Thorns was the star of this game, getting the full sweep. I think it could have been given more problem with Tauros intimidate cycling.

danny vs dugza: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-738378 [balance vs balance]
unfortunately this game wasnt played out, but still worth it to look at the team choices. Chandelure looked like it would have ripped through danny's team. Vileplume matches decent into regi in theory. Glowbro looked like a pain to switch into, so Dugza would have needed to play aggressive to try and keep it out.

Conclusions:

• DD scrafty doesnt seem broken; BU seems scary and thats what seems potentially broken.
• We have defensive cores that work and will start to shape the tier
• Chandelure is, for now, not demolishing balances
• Thundurus just seems like a good pokemon and not particularly overbearing
• Flygon is a great glue pokemon
• Overqwil is a good utility pick
• Pauros' still really good
• Fast encore from scream is still super useful

 

[Segetarius]

Time for some meta thoughts, overall methinks the council should have gone further with some of the bans and frankly whenever the next slate comes up, there are a few things I'd like to see go.


Honestly, I am baffled this mon survived the ban slate. Every single argument that I've heard about this mon being okay are as follows, "Well, it's just too Tera reliant to be bannable," and I personally couldn't disagree more with this sentiment. Scrafty brings a ton of utility to the table if you recognize what it contributes to a team defensively. Even with just its base typing, Scrafty can do a lot. It's a great switch into Glowbro (more on that later) and a number of other scary special attackers, it's a generally good option for a status absorber since you're running Rest and Shed Skin anyways, it's a great Knock Off absorber as well as being able to spam it itself. I've found that setting up Scrafty often requires you to abuse its ability to blanket check weak-ish special attackers to set up, and once it's set up, you better have a Fairy waiting in the wings or you're just dead. Basically nothing has the ability to trade blows once Scrafty reaches +2, unless ofc you choose to get into a boosting war. Once you factor in Tera, things really start getting out of hand. I like Tera poison, but steel, dragon, water, and a bunch of others all have their merits in making Scrafty more unkillable. I find this mon to be far too restricting both in the builder and in game and it needs to go.


I hate this thing so much. [Insert comment about Quick Draw/Quick Claw being uncompetitive.] Even if you discount that set as cheese, Glowbro will still fuck you up with a variety of other options. CM, Regenerator Pivot, NP, etcetera are all options that Glowbro can use effectively and each brings its own set of problems to an opponent in game. Don't get me wrong, its typing can be awkward, but once you get it in, and you will get it in with the resistances it has, your opponent is in quite the conundrum. Its base SpAtk and coverage alone make it a pain to switch into, and if it starts boosting, you better hope you have the immediate power you need to remove it from the field (or a fast Encore). What makes Glowbro so awful to me is that at its worst, it just gets to pivot in and out all game and spam Sludge Bomb to fish for poisons. At best it just stomps you with RNG and/or raw power and coverage. I can't see the world where this mon sticks around.


I don't think this mon is broken right this second, but again, I doubt Lax sticks around long-term for much the same reasons as Scrafty. Unlike Scrafty, Snorlax does not have as immediately useful typing (shoutout to Thick Fat for being the best Chandelure counter tho) or Knock Off. However, like Scrafty, Snorlax becomes kinda unkillable really quickly after a boost or 2 from Curse as well as being an incredible Tera abuser. I see it going eventually, but in the meantime, it is a nice blanket special check turned sweeper.

That's all I've got for now, maybe I'll write a post later on some of the mons I think are underrated. Until next time. Have a nice day!

 

[StompyStomps]

Here is my analysis for a few mons here that I see potential in

Emboar
Emboar @ Choice Band/Assault Vest/Choice Scarf
Ability: Reckless
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat/Drain Punch
- Flare Blitz/Temper Flare
- High Horsepower
- Knock Off/Sucker Punch
Typical Offensive Set of 4 Attacks, with either a Choice item or Assault Vest to make him a bit bulkier, is a strong wallbreaker, and matches up very well against stall
Emboar @ Heavy-Duty Boots/Leftovers
Ability: Blaze
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Body Press/Drain Punch
- Bulk Up
- Temper Flare
- Taunt/Roar/Yawn
can also run a Bulk Up set for set up, with access to Yawn, Roar, and Taunt, it can be hard to see coming
Emboar @ Choice Specs
Ability: Blaze
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast/Overheat
- Grass Knot
- Scald
- Focus Blast
Hey, a Pokemon with a decent special movepool and decent Special Attack at base 100. Needless to say, Choice Specs go brrrr.

Delphox
Delphox @ Heavy-Duty Boots/Life Orb/Expert Belt
Ability: Blaze
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Flamethrower/Fire Blast
- Psychic Noise/Psychic/Psyshock/Expanding Force
- Scorching Sands/Dazzling Gleam/Focus Blast/Grass Knot/Shadow Ball
, another mon with potentially terrifying offensive capabilities, with a much less wide movepool than

Delphox @ Choice Specs/Choice Scarf
Ability: Blaze
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast/Overheat
- Grass Knot
- Psychic/Psyshock
- Scorching Sands/Dazzling Gleam/Shadow Ball/Focus Blast
:Again with the Choice Specs sets, because yes

 

[etern]

Third slate of the week has come to an end. Thank you to poh and DugZa for stepping in to vote at the last minute!

This means that Quick Claw has been banned from SV NU via council slate, rip to Rabia's sextuple claw team. Tagging Kris and Marty to implement, thank you.

Given that Scrafty got a fairly high amount of support for action and Slowbro-G still being a contentious topic within the community, we'll be monitoring them both closely and revisiting them at some point this month. I'd like to get some more community feedback on those two mons in particular throughout the next week. Until then, enjoy the claw-less meta.

 

[StompyStomps]

Third slate of the week has come to an end. Thank you to poh and DugZa for stepping in to vote at the last minute!

This means that Quick Claw has been banned from SV NU via council slate, rip to Rabia's sextuple claw team. Tagging Kris and Marty to implement, thank you.

Given that Scrafty got a fairly high amount of support for action and Slowbro-G still being a contentious topic within the community, we'll be monitoring them both closely and revisiting them at some point this month. I'd like to get some more community feedback on those two mons in particular throughout the next week. Until then, enjoy the claw-less meta.

But Registeel is tiered in PU... is it legit better in NU than PU?

 

[Meri Berry]

But Registeel is tiered in PU... is it legit better in NU than PU?

The way that the drops worked was weird because it was based on usage from OU, not NU. Registeel may not even be a NU pokemon after the next shifts if RU uses it enough.

 

[StompyStomps]

The way that the drops worked was weird because it was based on usage from OU, not NU. Registeel may not even be a NU pokemon after the next shifts if RU uses it enough.

as both a PU and UU player, that's what we call a certified kek w my friend