Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread - Check post #2359

[DaVolterbomb]

Strong disagree.

What is a speed tier to a monster with Aerilate boosted priority?

How many of the shiny new toys - namely the faster ones - are weak to flying? Don't let the shiny new toy syndrome fool you. Certain XY megas like M-Pinsir & M-Scizor are being drastically underrated in light of Mega Mence & the other newcomers, though in actual fact they're well equipped to wreck all the new toys we're getting.

Speed tier is everything to fast sweepers. QA isn't a reliable way to KO the mega's above its speed tier. And also the "shiny new toys" destroy the pokemon.
Also i never said MScizor was bad at all, but fast sweepers that rely on speed can't risk losing their once amazing speed tier.

 

[TURBODERP]

Speed tier is everything to fast sweepers. QA isn't a reliable way to KO the mega's above its speed tier. And also the "shiny new toys" destroy the pokemon.
Also i never said MScizor was bad at all, but fast sweepers that rely on speed can't risk losing their once amazing speed tier.

Aerialate QA wrecks Beedrill and Sceptile, just sayin.

 

[Firebird101]

Speed tier is everything to fast sweepers. QA isn't a reliable way to KO the mega's above its speed tier. And also the "shiny new toys" destroy the pokemon.
Also i never said MScizor was bad at all, but fast sweepers that rely on speed can't risk losing their once amazing speed tier.

But sword dance + quick attack mitigates the issue. Mega Pinsir was nominated several times for a S rank in XY but was held back by it's stealth rock weakness, that is how much people fear and respect it's wallbreaker+sweeper capabilities and while ORAS has introduced more threats to it it can still function quite well once Mega Mence has gotten the boot.

Anyways like all 4x rock weak mon it's biggest nemesis aren't other pokemon but stealth rock so if there is gonna be any serious reason for it to drop it's probably gonna be if stealth rock becomes more prominent.

 

[DaVolterbomb]

Aerialate QA wrecks Beedrill and Sceptile, just sayin.

Who are also 2x weak to it and have frail defenses.

+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 68-81 (22.5 - 26.9%) -- 31.3% chance to 4HKO
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Diancie: 89-105 (36.9 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 91-108 (23 - 27.4%) -- 58.3% chance to 4HKO
etc. all can KO back.

 

[Kurona]

Who are also 2x weak to it and have frail defenses.

And are two of the only faster megas.

 

[TURBODERP]

Who are also 2x weak to it and have frail defenses.

+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 68-81 (22.5 - 26.9%) -- 31.3% chance to 4HKO
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Diancie: 89-105 (36.9 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 91-108 (23 - 27.4%) -- 58.3% chance to 4HKO
etc. all can KO back.

Why would you stay in against Diance or Slowbro? Metagross you can EQ/CC for a load of damage (assuming it isn't carrying Thunderpunch, I don't think Meteor Mash OHKO's). Yes, against certain new Megas, Mega Pinsir isn't that great, but against some it is.

 

[DaVolterbomb]

Why would you stay in against Diance or Slowbro? Metagross you can EQ/CC for a load of damage (assuming it isn't carrying Thunderpunch, I don't think Meteor Mash OHKO's). Yes, against certain new Megas, Mega Pinsir isn't that great, but against some it is.

All the megas i posted KO it with rocks or OHKO it period.

Why are you guys even thinking about not dropping MPinsir down? you guys seem against it. I just want it down to A- rank, thats all. Im just saying it isn't the threat it was in XY, and its speed tier isn't impressive anymore like it was in XY OU.

And are two of the only faster megas.

what?
Do you mean faster than the base 110 speed tier?
If so, MGallade, MMeta, MDiancie, Mega Swampert in Rain, MLati@s all outspeed MPinsir. The rest are usually used for Stall ;_;

 

[DoomBringer413]

Okay. I might sound like a noob, and maybe I am one, but I feel like people are getting too overhyped about Lopunny, sure, it has great moves in both support and Attack along with fake out (the monstrosity,) but it also have many cons.

M-Lopunny gets beaten by M-Gallade in terms of speed after a +1 Steadfast. Many M-Lopunnies those days just use Fake Out as a Stall for the first turn, and when a Jolly Gallade don't Mega evolve and gets flinched, it gets a Steadfast +1 Boost. On the second turn, Gallade could mega evolve and use Protect for it to gain more Speed the next turn(It doesn't get the boost from 80 to 110 speed on the first turn), allowing it to outspeed and out damage M-Lopunny, with either Close Combat, if running a Fast set, or a Drain Punch, if running a Bulky set. Speed: Jolly M-Gallade +1 vs Lopunny (110+55=165, 165>135 neutral).

 

[Poek]

Okay. I might sound like a noob, and maybe I am one, but I feel like people are getting too overhyped about Lopunny, sure, it has great moves in both support and Attack along with fake out (the monstrosity,) but it also have many cons.

M-Lopunny gets beaten by M-Gallade in terms of speed after a +1 Steadfast. Many M-Lopunnies those days just use Fake Out as a Stall for the first turn, and when a Jolly Gallade don't Mega evolve and gets flinched, it gets a Steadfast +1 Boost. On the second turn, Gallade could mega evolve and use Protect for it to gain more Speed the next turn(It doesn't get the boost from 80 to 110 speed on the first turn), allowing it to outspeed and out damage M-Lopunny, with either Close Combat, if running a Fast set, or a Drain Punch, if running a Bulky set. Speed: Jolly M-Gallade +1 vs Lopunny (110+55=165, 165>135 neutral).

Please tell me you're joking

 

[DaVolterbomb]

Okay. I might sound like a noob, and maybe I am one, but I feel like people are getting too overhyped about Lopunny, sure, it has great moves in both support and Attack along with fake out (the monstrosity,) but it also have many cons.

M-Lopunny gets beaten by M-Gallade in terms of speed after a +1 Steadfast. Many M-Lopunnies those days just use Fake Out as a Stall for the first turn, and when a Jolly Gallade don't Mega evolve and gets flinched, it gets a Steadfast +1 Boost. On the second turn, Gallade could mega evolve and use Protect for it to gain more Speed the next turn(It doesn't get the boost from 80 to 110 speed on the first turn), allowing it to outspeed and out damage M-Lopunny, with either Close Combat, if running a Fast set, or a Drain Punch, if running a Bulky set. Speed: Jolly M-Gallade +1 vs Lopunny (110+55=165, 165>135 neutral).

>Protect
Just cause one wacky ass set beats MLopunny doesn't mean its bad e_e its easily one of the best fast megas in ORAS. It has Access to very powerful moves and has unresisted stabs.
Dude, you either are trolling or you need a tutor.

Okay, I know I'm a noob at this forum, but that does not mean you could just.. You know..

ok ur really just stupid

 

[DoomBringer413]

Please tell me you're joking

Okay, I know I'm a noob at this forum, but that does not mean you could just.. You know..

 

[DoomBringer413]

>Protect
Just cause one wacky ass set beats MLopunny doesn't mean its bad e_e its easily one of the best fast megas in ORAS. It has Access to very powerful moves and has unresisted stabs.
Dude, you either are trolling or you need a tutor.



ok ur really just stupid

That's nice!

 

[DoomBringer413]

>Protect
Just cause one wacky ass set beats MLopunny doesn't mean its bad e_e its easily one of the best fast megas in ORAS. It has Access to very powerful moves and has unresisted stabs.
Dude, you either are trolling or you need a tutor.



ok ur really just stupid

What is wrong with you??!

 

[Poek]

Okay, I know I'm a noob at this forum, but that does not mean you could just.. You know..

Don't treat yourself like that, everybody didnt start being pro, I'm still bad for example, but I was shocked at your comment. You literally said that MLopunny is not that good because regular Gallade has Steadfast and predicts MLopunny's Fake Out, which isn't a must on the moveset btw, and you're implying that MGallade has protect too like if it was MBeedrill or something... Thats not a reason to not make MLopunny A+ .

 

[DoomBringer413]

Don't treat yourself like that, everybody didnt start being pro, I'm still bad, but I was shocked at your comment. You literally said that MLopunny is not that good because regular Gallade has Steadfast and predicts MLopunny's Fake Out, which isn't a must on the moveset btw, and you're implying that MGallade has protect too like if it was MBeedrill or something... Thats not a reason to not make MLopunny A+ .

Well, I didn't say anything for the tiers and stuff, and I do agree with you on Mega Lopunny being A+ Tier. Personally I've tried it out and it is really nice, but I just didn't expect such a.. a ridiculous and insulting reply from DaVolterbomb!

Plus, Mega Lopunny is still good. It outspeeds many threats in this tier, bar M-Beedrill, M-Aerodactyl, Talonflame, M-Alakazam, and M-Sceptile.

 

[DaVolterbomb]

Dude why are you highlighting me

anyways lets talk about TFlame. Imo it kinda got worse due to the rise of Defensive Rotom W, A huge rise in Heatran, Diancie, etc. but i wanna hear ur guys thought.

 

[LeoLancaster]

Speed: Jolly M-Gallade +1 vs Lopunny (110+55=165, 165>135 neutral).

That's not how speed works. 110 and 135 are base stats, but the Steadfast boost increases the actual stat. Thus, Protect isn't needed for this situation to work out. Jolly max-invested un-mega-evolved Gallade (base 80 speed) has a speed stat of 284, with a Steadfast boost that hits 426. Jolly Mega Lopunny (base 135) has a speed stat of 371. Thus, if Gallade was to remain unevolved predicting the Fake-Out, then he would outspeed and OHKO MLop the next turn without the help of Protect.

Not saying this has any bearing on Lopunny's ranking, but I (respectfully) would ask you to learn a better understanding of the game mechanics.

Welcome to Smogon :)

Edit: Stats Explained

 

[Firebird101]

All the mega i posted KO it with rocks or OHKO it period.

Why are you guys even thinking about not dropping MPinsir down? you guys seem against it. I just want it down to A- rank, thats all. Im just saying it isn't the threat it was in XY, and its speed tier isn't impressive anymore like it was in XY OU

The thing is, with Mega Salamence in the tier we can't measure Mega Pinsir's qualities well enough so it is safer to wait until Mega Mence is banned and we have tested Mega Pinsir enough cause at this moment Mega Pinsir's rank discussion is more hypothetical if anything.

Okay. I might sound like a noob, and maybe I am one, but I feel like people are getting too overhyped about Lopunny, sure, it has great moves in both support and Attack along with fake out (the monstrosity,) but it also have many cons.

M-Lopunny gets beaten by M-Gallade in terms of speed after a +1 Steadfast. Many M-Lopunnies those days just use Fake Out as a Stall for the first turn, and when a Jolly Gallade don't Mega evolve and gets flinched, it gets a Steadfast +1 Boost. On the second turn, Gallade could mega evolve and use Protect for it to gain more Speed the next turn(It doesn't get the boost from 80 to 110 speed on the first turn), allowing it to outspeed and out damage M-Lopunny, with either Close Combat, if running a Fast set, or a Drain Punch, if running a Bulky set. Speed: Jolly M-Gallade +1 vs Lopunny (110+55=165, 165>135 neutral).

Mega Lopunny outspeeds Mega Gallade so it has to survive a fake out+return to be able to do anything.

And no worries, my very first OU team as a noob had a Giga Impact Tauros ^^ it doesn't get more noobish than that xD

Dude why are you highlighting me

anyways lets talk about TFlame. Imo it kinda got worse due to the rise of Defensive Rotom W, A huge rise in Heatran, Diancie, etc. but i wanna hear ur guys thought.

Priority Brave bird still makes it the best revenge killer in OU and if anything ORAS brought it more victims than checks. Priority flying is a dangerous thing.

 

[Poek]

Dude why are you highlighting me

anyways lets talk about TFlame. Imo it kinda got worse due to the rise of Defensive Rotom W, A huge rise in Heatran, Diancie, etc. but i wanna hear ur guys thought.

But then we have the overpresence of Greninja, which Talonflame ohkoes, and, apart from checking old threats such as Keldeo, clefable, Breloom, Hawlucha, MGardevoir etc, it checks new stuff such as MSceptile, MBeedrill, MLopunny, MSableye, MMetagross, MGallade and priority Brave Bird is still as good as ever. Keep it A+ imo.

 

[Flamer]

If anything talonflame has got even better in the transition to ORAS, not worse lol. Outspeeds/KOs all the new offensive threats (Except MDiacie, who takes a fair bit of damage from a BB anyway) and is one of the few reliable checks to MSableye. In terms of the rotom increase, Washtom is so pressured at the moment to take on so many threats that it easily ends up whittled down to KO range, not to mention it moves a lot of its defense evs into SpAtk. Same sorta thing goes for Tran, threatened by so many mons that it gets whittled down eventually, it's even worse for tran bc it cant do anything back while +2 BB does buttloads.

In short, what Talonflame does is what no one else can, it has so much versatility (Stallbreaker, Band, SD) and checks so many relevent things for offense that it's a valuable asset to any team. The only real issue is it has is it's STAB combo is fairly easily walled but guess what? Theres this mon called Celebi/MSceptile who beats every single one of Talonflames counters easily.

 

[Srn]

The only real issue is it has is it's STAB combo is fairly easily walled but guess what? Theres this mon called Celebi/MSceptile who beats every single one of Talonflames counters easily.

Celebi and msceptile do not easily beat heatran friend....
I like keldeo better :3

 

[DaVolterbomb]

Celebi and msceptile do not easily beat heatran friend....

I guess MSceptile could possibly run EQ?

 

[boltsandbombers]

Celebi and msceptile do not easily beat heatran friend....

Not necessarily. Mega Sceptile always has Focus Blast or EQ, and Celebi has earth power but that's pretty uncommon.

 

[Worthlessnoob]

Celebi and msceptile do not easily beat heatran friend....
I like keldeo better :3

Celebi and Scept act as lures with Earth Power and EQ respectively.

 

[Firebird101]

Hardly matters anyways, none of Talonflames checks have reliable recovery so Heatran, Rotom-W and Tyranitar can't repeatedly switch into it and they get worn down easily regardless.