Pokémon Movepool Oddities & Explanations

[ThatOneSpork]

So I was thinking, and decided to go check out the Pokedex entries for Pinsir, and it itself calls them horns and pincers. Case in point -

Sapphire - PINSIR has a pair of massive horns. Protruding from the surface of these horns are thorns. These thorns are driven deeply into the foe’s body when the pincer closes, making it tough for the foe to escape.

Heart Gold - With its pincer horns, it digs burrows to sleep in at night. In the morning, damp soil clings to its body.

Moon - One solid blow from its horns is enough to split apart a large tree. Its greatest rival in Alola is Vikavolt.

Sun - It grips its prey in its pincers and splits them apart. Although it is a powerful Pokémon, it can’t deal with the cold.

Let's be honest, Game Freak doesn't even know what they are.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Let's be honest, Game Freak doesn't even know what they are.

 

[ThatOneSpork]

The difference there again is that the pincers of Durant and Vikavolt are mouths

Also speaking of Durant my theory is that Game Freak is scared to give it Megahorn because of hustle. They obviously don't want to addict people to gambling (too late).

 

[TailGlowVM]

Something that's always puzzled me is why Metagross has never been able to learn Heavy Slam. It's a big, heavy Steel-type, weighing 550kg, and I can definitely see it slamming its body onto a target to attack:



They had an opportunity to give it to Metagross in Gen 8 when it became a TR. Metagross does learn Body Press, a similar-sounding move. And you're telling me Aron, Roggenrola, and Bronzor get this but not Metagross?

 

[ThatOneSpork]

Something that's always puzzled me is why Metagross has never been able to learn Heavy Slam. It's a big, heavy Steel-type, weighing 550kg, and I can definitely see it slamming its body onto a target to attack:

I think it is because of the fact that Metagross was created in Gen 3, and Heavy Slam was introduced in Gen 5. At this point, Metagross already had a good enough movepool and they probably just decided to leave it as is for SWSH because it's still a decent movepool, and with Iron Head, Meteor Mash, and Bullet Punch. So GF just thought "meh" because it already had decent moves for steel. Also doesn't it like float half the time so that maybe.

 

[CPU]

Also doesn't it like float half the time so that maybe.

Celesteela is literally Flying and it gets it by level (and is perhaps the best user of the move).

 

[Pikachu315111]

Also speaking of Durant my theory is that Game Freak is scared to give it Megahorn because of hustle. They obviously don't want to addict people to gambling (too late).

Nah, Durant's pincers are certainly mouth pincers, and it's antenna don't look stiff enough to be horn-like.

 

[ThatOneSpork]

Celesteela is literally Flying and it gets it by level (and is perhaps the best user of the move).

Aha, but that is your mistake. Flying. Metagross apparently only floats occasionally, entirely due to the psychic type. Also, thinking of psychic types, most (emphasis on most) of them seem sort of dignified. They seem the type that would just refuse to just slam into somebody, and with 3 fully evolved psychic types learning it, you can see the reasoning behind those.
1. Solgaleo - The entire psychic part of it doesn't make the most sense, with it really only related to psychic through space. Even then, lions seem like the animal to be more physical and violent.
2. Calyrex-Ice - The only reason it gets heavy slam is because it is 2 pokemon combined, and it makes perfect sense that Glastrier gets it. Moving on.
3. Bronzong - It seems kinda man-made, meaning it is bound to be more violent. It is also referred to as ancient in many dex entries. Also, the psychic type also doesn't make the most sense, as it is a floating bell that brongs (heh) rain to people. Yes, it may make portals, but that doesn't guarantee it the psychic type.
So in conclusion... those are my thought i guess.

 

[CPU]

Aha, but that is your mistake. Flying. Metagross apparently only floats occasionally, entirely due to the psychic type. Also, thinking of psychic types, most (emphasis on most) of them seem sort of dignified. They seem the type that would just refuse to just slam into somebody, and with 3 fully evolved psychic types learning it, you can see the reasoning behind those.
1. Solgaleo - The entire psychic part of it doesn't make the most sense, with it really only related to psychic through space. Even then, lions seem like the animal to be more physical and violent.
2. Calyrex-Ice - The only reason it gets heavy slam is because it is 2 pokemon combined, and it makes perfect sense that Glastrier gets it. Moving on.
3. Bronzong - It seems kinda man-made, meaning it is bound to be more violent. It is also referred to as ancient in many dex entries. Also, the psychic type also doesn't make the most sense, as it is a floating bell that brongs (heh) rain to people. Yes, it may make portals, but that doesn't guarantee it the psychic type.
So in conclusion... those are my thought i guess.

If Metagross wasn't expressly described as a predator in the Pokedex, with it pinning prey down with its 4 arms (and, you know, huge metal body) and eating it with its underside mouth, this might actually explain it.

But... I personally don't see it.

 

[ThatOneSpork]

If Metagross wasn't expressly described as a predator in the Pokedex, with it pinning prey down with its 4 arms (and, you know, huge metal body) and eating it with its underside mouth, this might actually explain it.

While this may be true, that doesn't mean it would slam into enemies in battle. As you all know, you're not you when you're hungry. But it makes sense for it to do this to eat, as it uses its superior strength and intelligence to pin them down. It does say it defeats its enemies with it's supercomputer mind, which (while not expressly said) makes it seem that Metagross would not use brute strength to pin down it's enemies, instead opting to predict their moves and then pin them down and monch on the bodies. So I'm basically saying that it may have strength, but that doesn't make it a brute.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

While this may be true, that doesn't mean it would slam into enemies in battle. As you all know, you're not you when you're hungry. But it makes sense for it to do this to eat, as it uses its superior strength and intelligence to pin them down. It does say it defeats its enemies with it's supercomputer mind, which (while not expressly said) makes it seem that Metagross would not use brute strength to pin down it's enemies, instead opting to predict their moves and then pin them down and monch on the bodies. So I'm basically saying that it may have strength, but that doesn't make it a brute.

It may not be a brute, but it (or at least its mega form) is extremely pragmatic. If it thought its best chance at winning would involve body slamming the opponent, you best believe it will try to body slam the opponent. In terms of flavor, there is absolutely no reason why Metagross can't use Heavy Slam.

The real reason why it can't is likely due to balancing. Metagross is very heavy, so when Heavy Slam was made, Game Freak probably thought "we've designed Metagross to use its de facto signature move, and we don't want it to be overshadowed by this other move" and then when Gen 6 rolled around and Mega Metagross (one of the heaviest Pokemon in the game and the second densest Pokemon after Cosmoem) became a thing, they probably thought "oh we definitely don't want Mega Metagross to have Heavy Slam, that would be broken, speaking of which we should probably also tone down Meteor Mash" and then it "only" ended up being one of the best Pokemon in the game.

 

[ThatOneSpork]

It may not be a brute, but it (or at least its mega form) is extremely pragmatic. If it thought its best chance at winning would involve body slamming the opponent, you best believe it will try to body slam the opponent. In terms of flavor, there is absolutely no reason why Metagross can't use Heavy Slam.

Sadly, I cannot disagree. I no longer can argue my side of the point, because this makes perfect sense.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

I'm personally convinced Metagross not learning Heavy Slam is a conscious choice on Game Freak to restrain it because they think it would be "too good" with Heavy Slam equipped. It's a pseudo-legendary and Game Freak has a tendency to be oddly restrictive when it comes to their movepools (other examples being Dragonite and Salamence not having a good Flying STAB for a long time, Garchomp not learning Dragon Dance, Dragapult lacking a good Ghost STAB outside of Phantom Force, not even learning Poltergeist). Metagross is and always has been a force to be reckoned with in the VGC meta and whoever decides the movepools for Pokemon probably thinks Metagross having a near 120 BP STAB would be too much for such a good Pokemon who has a history of being a dominant force in most official competitive formats.

I really think this was conscious restraint not to give it Heavy Slam and it's part of Game Freak's tendency to act with some level of limitation when it comes to designing pseudos and their movepools because they likely don't want them to be *too* good in the competitive environment.

 

[TailGlowVM]

I'm personally convinced Metagross not learning Heavy Slam is a conscious choice on Game Freak to restrain it because they think it would be "too good" with Heavy Slam equipped. It's a pseudo-legendary and Game Freak has a tendency to be oddly restrictive when it comes to their movepools (other examples being Dragonite and Salamence not having a good Flying STAB for a long time, Garchomp not learning Dragon Dance, Dragapult lacking a good Ghost STAB outside of Phantom Force, not even learning Poltergeist). Metagross is and always has been a force to be reckoned with in the VGC meta and whoever decides the movepools for Pokemon probably thinks Metagross having a near 120 BP STAB would be too much for such a good Pokemon who has a history of being a dominant force in most official competitive formats.

I really think this was conscious restraint not to give it Heavy Slam and it's part of Game Freak's tendency to act with some level of limitation when it comes to designing pseudos and their movepools because they likely don't want them to be *too* good in the competitive environment.

They do seem to limit the pseudo-legendaries somewhat, in the case of Goodra and Kommo-o, perhaps too far for a Pokemon with their BST and a typically good typing in Dragon. They must have realised this with the latter as they gave it a bunch of new moves and the Z-move in USUM, and then, perhaps worried it would be forgotten in SWSH without Clangorous Soulblaze, designed a watered-down replacement as a regular move as well as making Kommo-o one of the only Pokemon to have STAB on Body Press.

Yet Goodra still does not get Recover after three generations. Whilst of course all Pokemon would like to have Recover, Goodra is based on a slug, an animal that can regenerate their bodies, as shown by other slug and snail Pokemon like Magcargo, Accelgor, and Gastrodon learning it. This would be a significant but likely not game-breaking improvement to it like Kommo-o's Z-move, and given the treatment Kommo-o has got after its original failure I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet. Goodra is by far the worst pseudo-legendary in general competitive terms at the moment.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Yet Goodra still does not get Recover after three generations. Whilst of course all Pokemon would like to have Recover, Goodra is based on a slug, an animal that can regenerate their bodies, as shown by other slug and snail Pokemon like Magcargo, Accelgor, and Gastrodon learning it.

Goodra does learn Life Dew. Not that great, but it's some recovery. If they don't want to give it full on Recover, maybe another recovery move like Aqua Ring?

 

[Worldie]

Goodra does learn Life Dew. Not that great, but it's some recovery. If they don't want to give it full on Recover, maybe another recovery move like Aqua Ring?

His concern isnt really for "Goodra needs recovery but they can't give it cause unbalanced clearly", simply stating how it's weird that a pokemon based on a slug does not learn a move that all other slug pokemon learn.

"Just give it a different lesser recovery move" doesn't really change the fact it would make sense for Goodra to have *that* specific recovery move :P

It's basically same as "growlithe doesnt learn growl"

 

[Nokocchi]

It's basically same as "growlithe doesnt learn growl"

That example you're giving is solely an English localization thing, Growlithe's original Japanese name has nothing to do with growling.

 

[willempju]

That example you're giving is solely an English localization thing, Growlithe's original Japanese name has nothing to do with growling.

It's still a dog though. So independently of its name, it doesn't make sense that it doens't learn it.

 

[Cresselia92]

It's still a dog though. So independently of its name, it doesn't make sense that it doens't learn it.

To be fair, almost no dog Pokémon learns Growl. Houndour, Lillipup and Rockruff can get the combination Leer and Howl, while Yamper has Tail Whip and can get Howl as an egg move. Furfrou is the only exception to the rule. Also, in Japanese Growl is known as Cry.

So, this is just another case of the English translation being misleading, like with Sucker Punch not being a punch move.

 

[Worldie]

That example you're giving is solely an English localization thing, Growlithe's original Japanese name has nothing to do with growling.

Pretty much what willempju said: I'm very confident that Growlithe/Arcanine not learning Growl has nothing to do with balance, and if anything more to do with weird technicalities like the one below
I just mentioned it cause it's possibly the most common example of "why doesnt a pokemon not learn a move that's completely useless but perfectly appropriate flavour wise"

To be fair, almost no dog Pokémon learns Growl. Houndour, Lillipup and Rockruff can get the combination Leer and Howl, while Yamper has Tail Whip and can get Howl as an egg move. Furfrou is the only exception to the rule. Also, in Japanese Growl is known as Cry.

So, this is just another case of the English translation being misleading, like with Sucker Punch not being a punch move.

That's actually interesting, though, aren't dogs very well able to produce a cry, or is that some grammar stuff where their barking isnt a cry?

 

[R_N]

After 8 generations it seems like they mostly (there's exceptoins here & there) want it to be a kind of shrill scream. Pokemon based on animals known for high-pitched screams like mice, lizards, elephants or monkeys.

It's funny how the description eventually evolved into "Growls cutely" (I presume its akin to "lets out a cute cry" in japan) because Growl is like...almost never shown as cute, specifically.

 

[Ironmage]

After 8 generations it seems like they mostly (there's exceptoins here & there) want it to be a kind of shrill scream. Pokemon based on animals known for high-pitched screams like mice, lizards, elephants or monkeys.

It's funny how the description eventually evolved into "Growls cutely" (I presume its akin to "lets out a cute cry" in japan) because Growl is like...almost never shown as cute, specifically.

It is classed as a cute move for contests, and attack drops seem to occasionally have a cute themeing in other moves (play nice/rough, charm, baby-doll eyes, tickle).

 

[Bakugames]

Growl is probably based on animals like these :)

 

[Pikachu315111]

It's funny how the description eventually evolved into "Growls cutely" (I presume its akin to "lets out a cute cry" in japan) because Growl is like...almost never shown as cute, specifically.

You've never played tug-a-war with my cousin's Zuchon then (specified my cousin's as I'm not sure if any other Zuchon growls when playing tug-a-war with them).

 

[TerrickTerran]

Growl is an interesting discussion. Clearly some moves are avoided because of competitive (Hey T-tar, no Knock Off for you)