Aldaron
geriatric
So, we have Pokemon that might be on the fence between OU and Uber before any restrictions (suspects).
Why haven't we ever considered Pokemon-specific restrictions? Right now we determine if a suspect is too strong for ou, and then it if is too strong, it is voted into Uber. But since it is a suspect after all, there is no "strong confirmation" that it is uber, just a general feeling among players who actually play that it is too much for the standard metagame.
I'll use examples. I'm going to ignore Deoxys-S and Wobbuffet because both were given quick bans, and neither will be considered suspect ever again (for 4th gen anyway). Our suspects in 4th gen are Garchomp, Manaphy, Skymin, Latios, Latias, and Salamence.
Do people really think Garchomp would be broken if it wasn't allowed to use Swords Dance or Resist Berries? That Manaphy would be broken without access to Tail Glow or possibly Calm Mind? That Latios / Latias would be broken without Draco Meteor, Salamence without Dragon Dance (so you only worry about mix sets or choice sets) or without Outrage (dp salamence)? Skymin I'm ignoring as well as it was voted strongly uber in Stage 3 and pretty much no good battler had any doubts on that (it was made suspect only cause it was new).
Regarding the metagame, there are plenty of things that Garchomp and Latias provided that would be beneficial to it, but unfortunately due to specific offensive and general defensive capabilities, they were permanently banned and not allowed to positively affect the game. Garchomp and its scarf set was able to provide a dependable check to various dragon dancers (hello Salamence) and with its decent bulk and great defensive typing (resist electric / fire), switch in quite easily. Latias had it's awesome defensive capabilities (stopping Infernape).
So...why haven't we considered this beyond that really nonsensical "simple rules are preferable" statement.
Sure, simple rules are preferable. Doesn't mean we should allow the desire for simple rules to have higher priority than having a better metagame. I honestly think that having Garchomp / Latias in the metagame without certain offensive tools that made them broken before (SD Yache Chomp and Draco Meteor + Trick Specs Latias) would benefit the game greatly. Having more viable Pokemon just makes the game more interesting.
Again, to prevent that certain crowd that enjoys destroying debates by including extreme examples and using them as debate tools from sabotaging this topic, I'll emphasize certain points:
1.) We have a solid line set up for "where we stop," namely we only consider restrictions on Pokemon determined suspect before the restrictions. This means Mewtwo without Special Attacks or Kyogre without Choice Specs and Water Spout won't be considered (or Darkrai without Dark Void, Hypnosis, or Nasty Plot).
2.) Since we're moving towards a more council type Pokemon policy system anyway, we just have the council talk about what restrictions should be applied (to speed up the process)
3.) Let's face it, most of us (besides certain Ubers fanatics) enjoy a game that is balanced and diverse. We don't want Pokemon blasting away with ridiculous offensive potential and turning most games into 50-50 guesses (partly why Garchomp and Latias were banned). We also prefer not seeing the same things over and over again (I don't think I have to explain this one). Increasing the number of viable Pokemon in a game accomplishes the latter without worrying about the former, as we'll make sure to reduce their capacities (I'm ignoring defensive characteristics because we tend not to ban solely for them, note Blissey).
4.) Preferring simple rules might be important, but it should never have a higher priority than improving the metagame. Also, honestly, changing "Ban Garchomp and Latias and Salamence" to "Ban Swords Dance and Resist Berries on Garchomp, Draco Meteor on Latias, and Outrage on Salamence" is a negligible change. That is very literally making the ruleset negligibly more complicated. If we were going to try it for every Uber, I could maybe (but not really) understand the hesitation, but we're ONLY going to consider suspects, and only some of them at that (not Deoxys-S, wobbuffet, or skymin).
So...why aren't we considering this?
Why haven't we ever considered Pokemon-specific restrictions? Right now we determine if a suspect is too strong for ou, and then it if is too strong, it is voted into Uber. But since it is a suspect after all, there is no "strong confirmation" that it is uber, just a general feeling among players who actually play that it is too much for the standard metagame.
I'll use examples. I'm going to ignore Deoxys-S and Wobbuffet because both were given quick bans, and neither will be considered suspect ever again (for 4th gen anyway). Our suspects in 4th gen are Garchomp, Manaphy, Skymin, Latios, Latias, and Salamence.
Do people really think Garchomp would be broken if it wasn't allowed to use Swords Dance or Resist Berries? That Manaphy would be broken without access to Tail Glow or possibly Calm Mind? That Latios / Latias would be broken without Draco Meteor, Salamence without Dragon Dance (so you only worry about mix sets or choice sets) or without Outrage (dp salamence)? Skymin I'm ignoring as well as it was voted strongly uber in Stage 3 and pretty much no good battler had any doubts on that (it was made suspect only cause it was new).
Regarding the metagame, there are plenty of things that Garchomp and Latias provided that would be beneficial to it, but unfortunately due to specific offensive and general defensive capabilities, they were permanently banned and not allowed to positively affect the game. Garchomp and its scarf set was able to provide a dependable check to various dragon dancers (hello Salamence) and with its decent bulk and great defensive typing (resist electric / fire), switch in quite easily. Latias had it's awesome defensive capabilities (stopping Infernape).
So...why haven't we considered this beyond that really nonsensical "simple rules are preferable" statement.
Sure, simple rules are preferable. Doesn't mean we should allow the desire for simple rules to have higher priority than having a better metagame. I honestly think that having Garchomp / Latias in the metagame without certain offensive tools that made them broken before (SD Yache Chomp and Draco Meteor + Trick Specs Latias) would benefit the game greatly. Having more viable Pokemon just makes the game more interesting.
Again, to prevent that certain crowd that enjoys destroying debates by including extreme examples and using them as debate tools from sabotaging this topic, I'll emphasize certain points:
1.) We have a solid line set up for "where we stop," namely we only consider restrictions on Pokemon determined suspect before the restrictions. This means Mewtwo without Special Attacks or Kyogre without Choice Specs and Water Spout won't be considered (or Darkrai without Dark Void, Hypnosis, or Nasty Plot).
2.) Since we're moving towards a more council type Pokemon policy system anyway, we just have the council talk about what restrictions should be applied (to speed up the process)
3.) Let's face it, most of us (besides certain Ubers fanatics) enjoy a game that is balanced and diverse. We don't want Pokemon blasting away with ridiculous offensive potential and turning most games into 50-50 guesses (partly why Garchomp and Latias were banned). We also prefer not seeing the same things over and over again (I don't think I have to explain this one). Increasing the number of viable Pokemon in a game accomplishes the latter without worrying about the former, as we'll make sure to reduce their capacities (I'm ignoring defensive characteristics because we tend not to ban solely for them, note Blissey).
4.) Preferring simple rules might be important, but it should never have a higher priority than improving the metagame. Also, honestly, changing "Ban Garchomp and Latias and Salamence" to "Ban Swords Dance and Resist Berries on Garchomp, Draco Meteor on Latias, and Outrage on Salamence" is a negligible change. That is very literally making the ruleset negligibly more complicated. If we were going to try it for every Uber, I could maybe (but not really) understand the hesitation, but we're ONLY going to consider suspects, and only some of them at that (not Deoxys-S, wobbuffet, or skymin).
So...why aren't we considering this?