It's time to talk about the identity of Hackmons and if or how we want to future proof it going forward.
Historically, Hackmons has been tied to what can be hacked into a local battle. This is why in ORAS Hackmons (where you cannot join local battles with more than 510 EVs) there is an EV limit, while in later generations (where this is not enforced in local battles) there is no limit. Due to some utter bullshitery that was possible in local battles in SS, we re-defined Hackmons to be: Anything directly hackable onto a set (EVs, IVs, forme, ability, item, and move) and is usable in local battles is allowed. At the time, this did not impact Balanced Hackmons at all, but it gave us a more clear framework for handling new and unexpected hacks in the future.
However, thanks to DaWoblefet, we have learned there has been a change to how in-battle transformations interact with local battles. In SS, you could hack in an in-battle only transformation (most relevant for BH, Zamazenta-C without Rusted Shield) and it would would keep its forme in the local battle. In SV, in-battle transformations do not persist into local battles. Out-of-battle transformations like Arceus and Giratina-O are not affected by this; they can still be hacked into local battles without their respective items and abilities.
This means that under our current definition, Zamazenta-C, Palafin-H, Meloetta-P, and Eiscue-N would not be useable in BH as a base forme and would only be accessible with the items / abilities / moves that cause their transformation. This also applies to Zacian-C, but since it is already banned as a base forme would not impact the metagame. Realistically, this mostly matters for Zama-C in the current generation, but it is unclear if it would apply to mega formes, should they return to the mainline games as well.
This presents us with two possible choices:
This definition change, should it occur, would also impact Pure Hackmons; however, considering the relative size and importance of the metagames, we want to prioritize BH.
Any definition change would not apply retroactively to old generations; those will exist as-is.
An OM not being cart-playable is not inherently a dealbreaker, but most cases like Trademark and Fortemons are much more dramatic breaks from cart.
Since BH's identity has included in-battle exclusive forme changes before, especially megas in ORAS and USUM, that is a factor here.
There is no set outcome to this discussion and we want to hear from the community what they feel is best. Both keeping a consistent cart-playable definition and maintaining the any-forme nature of BH as it has existed have merit, and we will heavily weight community feedback into the final decision.
With all that said, the floor is open for any questions / comments / opinions. glhf
Historically, Hackmons has been tied to what can be hacked into a local battle. This is why in ORAS Hackmons (where you cannot join local battles with more than 510 EVs) there is an EV limit, while in later generations (where this is not enforced in local battles) there is no limit. Due to some utter bullshitery that was possible in local battles in SS, we re-defined Hackmons to be: Anything directly hackable onto a set (EVs, IVs, forme, ability, item, and move) and is usable in local battles is allowed. At the time, this did not impact Balanced Hackmons at all, but it gave us a more clear framework for handling new and unexpected hacks in the future.
However, thanks to DaWoblefet, we have learned there has been a change to how in-battle transformations interact with local battles. In SS, you could hack in an in-battle only transformation (most relevant for BH, Zamazenta-C without Rusted Shield) and it would would keep its forme in the local battle. In SV, in-battle transformations do not persist into local battles. Out-of-battle transformations like Arceus and Giratina-O are not affected by this; they can still be hacked into local battles without their respective items and abilities.
This means that under our current definition, Zamazenta-C, Palafin-H, Meloetta-P, and Eiscue-N would not be useable in BH as a base forme and would only be accessible with the items / abilities / moves that cause their transformation. This also applies to Zacian-C, but since it is already banned as a base forme would not impact the metagame. Realistically, this mostly matters for Zama-C in the current generation, but it is unclear if it would apply to mega formes, should they return to the mainline games as well.
This presents us with two possible choices:
- We can stick with the current definition of cart-playable and remove Zama-C and friends from Balanced Hackmons.
- We can modify the definition of BH, again, to completely separate it from cart; any forme, move, ability, and item that exists in game is usable in Balanced Hackmons with no EV limit (minus bans, of course).
This definition change, should it occur, would also impact Pure Hackmons; however, considering the relative size and importance of the metagames, we want to prioritize BH.
Any definition change would not apply retroactively to old generations; those will exist as-is.
An OM not being cart-playable is not inherently a dealbreaker, but most cases like Trademark and Fortemons are much more dramatic breaks from cart.
Since BH's identity has included in-battle exclusive forme changes before, especially megas in ORAS and USUM, that is a factor here.
There is no set outcome to this discussion and we want to hear from the community what they feel is best. Both keeping a consistent cart-playable definition and maintaining the any-forme nature of BH as it has existed have merit, and we will heavily weight community feedback into the final decision.
With all that said, the floor is open for any questions / comments / opinions. glhf
Last edited: