Is Icicle Crash worth the accuracy drop? How much of a difference do those 10 extra points make?
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[QC READY 2/3] Weavile
- Thread starter Kirbles
- Start date
I agree with this. I've been using Ice Punch over Icicle Crash and I haven't noticed any missing KO's. Does someone have a list of things that Icicle Crash OHKO's that Ice Punch can't prebank?
At first I thought you were talking to the above poster, but the 1st post still lists Icicle Crash & not Ice Punch.
Icicle Crash's flinch has saved my Weavile a few times over. The proc rate is something like 30%, which is worth consideration over Ice Punch. But yeah, it's 'risky' compared to Ice Punch. It's also the difference between OKOing certain Goodra sets and not.
Also, I believe that Low Sweep is worth a slash, because it proves very useful against scarfed checks trying to switch in and ruin Weavile's day.
I've also been finding choice band to be a dubious pick this gen. Usually I'll come in and pursuit trap something, only to find that I've given my opponent a free turn to pass a Scolipede boost or Belly Drum an Azumarill. Choiced pursuit after a ko just isn't threatening anything.
Also, Avalugg is pretty much a full stop to Weavile. It doesn't care about anything it does even after a swords dance. He also struggles to take down most bulky fairy types (see: all of them) without poison jab. I found myself unable to deal with Clefable, Florges, Aromatisse, and Sylveon amongst other things.
Also, I believe that Low Sweep is worth a slash, because it proves very useful against scarfed checks trying to switch in and ruin Weavile's day.
I've also been finding choice band to be a dubious pick this gen. Usually I'll come in and pursuit trap something, only to find that I've given my opponent a free turn to pass a Scolipede boost or Belly Drum an Azumarill. Choiced pursuit after a ko just isn't threatening anything.
Also, Avalugg is pretty much a full stop to Weavile. It doesn't care about anything it does even after a swords dance. He also struggles to take down most bulky fairy types (see: all of them) without poison jab. I found myself unable to deal with Clefable, Florges, Aromatisse, and Sylveon amongst other things.
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I've been using a combination of Pursuit, Brick Break, Ice Punch and Poison Jab with Life Orb and it's proved very effective. Does the speed drop from Low Sweep make it worth using over Brick Break's +10 power? I agree that not making contact is a plus and the flinch rate is a huge plus. However using (http://honko.byethost8.com/APC/ap_calc.html) shows that a 252 Atk Jolly Weavile can OHKO a 252 HP/ 4 Def Neutral Def Nature Goodra 100% of the time. This may be the wrong calculator to use, however in my battles I have yet to fail OHKOing any Goodra with Ice Punch even before SR/Spikes (which are pretty common now). If by some circumstance the Goodra is running 252 HP/252 Def and Bold, Ice Punch and Icicle Crash turn into 2HKOs.
I agree that Choice Band is a poor item choice for Weavile, the extra power for the 1 pursuit is nice, but it means my opponent can get in something safely and get a free SD/sub.
Oh yeah, that's right. Icicle Crash doesn't trigger Gooey & the like. Okay, that's good enough for me. (Until I have to choose between it and Knock Off)
The reason I choose to use Low Sweep over Brick Break is that I find Weavile rarely actually having a chance to land Brick Break. Anything that can be KOed by it will most likely switch out immediately to one of Weavile's many checks or counters. A scizor at -1 speed is slightly less threatening than a Scizor at neutral after a brick break, and it's going to make them think twice about setting up a swords dance as you switch to your scarfed magnezone or whatever scizor-taker-outerer you've got there.
That's actually not a bad idea. *considers other Pokemon that get Low Sweep*
I will give Low Sweep a try later tonight, you've sold me on that. I don't think I've had anything actually stay in to take a Brick Break anyways so the speed drop would help immensely, as I usually have Sticky Web down as well.
I still think that Ice Punch should get a slash alongside Icicle Crash if your don't value the flinching as much. As it is, the OP only mentions it in Checks & Counters but doesn't have it listed as an option or in AC.
I switched to using Low Sweep, and I have to say that it actually is better. Nothing that I want to hit with Brick Break stays in, so the speed drop is immensely helpful. Lowering speeds of incoming Gyarados and Scizor is pretty nice. One thing I noticed is that I wasn't able to OHKO Greninja on the switch, which I remember being able to do with Brick Break.
Brick Break OHKO's Lucario (if I remember correctly), haven't had anyone bring in a Lucario when I've been using Low Sweep yet. I agree that if the Lucario is using Justified it most likely will never get the boost. I think that Poison Jab may be slightly overrated as some of the more commonly used fairies are immune/are hit harder by Weavile's Ice attacks instead.
Klefki - Immune to Poison Jab
Azumarill - Poison Jab is better
Mawile - Immune to Poison Jab
Togekiss - Stab Ice Punch/Icicle Crash/Ice Shard hit harder
Slvyeon - Poison Jab is better
Although if your using a core of Ice Shard, Pursuit, Ice Punch/Icicle Crash the last move is open for debate depending on team weakness I guess.
Klefki - Immune to Poison Jab
Azumarill - Poison Jab is better
Mawile - Immune to Poison Jab
Togekiss - Stab Ice Punch/Icicle Crash/Ice Shard hit harder
Slvyeon - Poison Jab is better
Although if your using a core of Ice Shard, Pursuit, Ice Punch/Icicle Crash the last move is open for debate depending on team weakness I guess.
How good is Mega Aggron as a check?
I think weavile should stay UU like back in gen 5 because it doesnt have enough sttack to stand out, plus it id one of easiest pokemon to counter in OU.
Even with LO Low Sweep and Brick Break it's easily at least a 3HKO. Mega Aggron takes very little damage from any of Weavile's attacks. Choice band doesn't fair much better either.
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May I see the calculations?
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 4+ Def Mega Aggron: 88-107 (25.5 - 31.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Low Sweep vs. 252 HP / 4+ Def Mega Aggron: 75-91 (21.8 - 26.4%) -- 7.5% chance to 4HKO
So MEvo'd Aggron has no trouble with Weavile, and can (probably) hit back with whatever it wants.
But what about a non MEvo'd Aggron?
(Also, do those calculations factor in filter?)