Rain Stall... Does it work?

[Rakan]

Alright, so having played the new black and white metagame for quite awhile now, I have naturally abused weather to its fullest extent, creating multiple rain teams and sandstorm teams and sun teams. Every weather team seems to be either hyper offense or sand stall. But what about the forgotten Rain Stall? It is a perfectly viable option with Drizzle still in play, and I think that if Swift Swim is banned, Rain Stall will become more prominent. I have been testing a rain stall team and it is a very fun yet different way to approach the metagame. So far I have managed to peak at around 1200 with a rain stall team, but I just started to test a few days ago.

Here are the most viable abusers in rain stall:

Vaporeon

Abilities: Water Absorb/Hydration
Notable moves: Boiling Water, Toxic, Acid Armor, Baton Pass, Rest, Ice Beam, Aqua Ring, Roar

If you laugh when you see a Vaporeon without Water Absorb, I assume you haven't played against a Hydration Vaporeon in the rain. With the right ev spread, Vaporeon can gain immense bulk, and has Acid Armor to boost it further. Instant status and full health recovery due to a combo of rest+hydration makes it even more annoying to take down. Roar provides phazing and can get rid of any unfavorable match ups as well as getting rid of stat boosters. It can also baton pass any boosts or even aqua ring (although it should be noted that baton pass is illegal with hydration because all dw event vaporeon are male). Seriously, if rain is up, fear this cute, blue sea dog.

Tentacruel

Abilities: Clear Body/Liquid Ooze/Rain Dish
Notable moves: Boiling Water, Toxic Spikes, Rapid Spin, Ice Beam, Knock Off, Venom Shock, Evil Eye

Tentacruel has gained a great new ability to abuse in the rain in the form of Rain Dish. Rain Dish heals 1/16th of its health every turn in the rain, which, along with leftovers/black sludge heals a decent amount of hp each turn. Even better is that Tentacruel is very bulky and can abuse that extra healing while taking some hits. Not to mention it can also spin away spikes and stealth rock along with absorbing toxic spikes that can really hinder the usefulness of your team.

Ludicolo

Abilities: Swift Swim/Rain Dish/Own Tempo (lol)
Notable Moves: Leech Seed, Giga Drain, Boiling Water, Ice Beam, Protect, Substitute, Toxic

Most people who encounter Ludicolo see the swift swim, life orb sweeper variant. However, Subseed Ludicolo is very viable in the rain, especially with Rain Dish. Toxic can also be used to wear opponents down. Protect or Giga Drain can be used for additional recovery. A very real threat in the rain (although it should be noted that without rain, Ludicolo fails).

Parasect

Abilities: Effect Spore/Dry Skin/Damp (...)
Notable moves: Spore, Substitute, Leech Seed, Protect, X-scissor, Giga Drain

Parasect in the rain is one of the most, if not THE most annoying thing to face in the rain. Spore is a 100% accurate sleep moving, essentially allowing for Parasect to get up a free Leech Seed or Substitute on the switch in. Protect can be used for even more stalling. X-scissor and Giga Drain provide some STAB so that it is not complete taunt and set up bait. Leftovers combined with leech seed and dry skin can recover insane amounts of help, making it nearly impossible to kill. Underestimate this very real threat at your demise...

Toxicroak

Abilities: Anticipation/Dry Skin/Poison Skin
Notable moves: Substitute, Swords Dance, Bulk Up, Drain Punch, Focus Punch, Sucker Punch, Payback, Stone Edge, Ice Punch, Nasty Plot, Vacuum Wave, Dark Pulse, Hidden Power Ice, Sludge Bomb

Toxicroak is rarely ever seen out of rain due to its amazing ability, Dry Skin. Its seemingly average stats can be boosted and it can actually be quite bulky, especially after a few bulk ups. In addition, it's typing provides numerous resistances including fighting, bug (4x), grass, dark, rock, poison, along with an immunity to water thanks to Dry Skin and the ability to absorb Toxic Spikes, the bane of stall. It can also hit pretty hard with STAB Drain Punch, which also gives it another form of recovery, making it even harder to take down.

Some offensive threats usable in Rain Stall who make use of rain include: Toxicroak, Ludicolo, Dragonite and perhaps some more like Kingdra and Kabutops, although they don't really fit the theme of stall.

Also, let me say just how important tspikes are to rain stall. Without residual damage from the wdather, toxic damage is vital for rain stall. Hazard stacking and phazing likewise are very useful - roar on vappy, perish song and encore on toed, etc are all vital, and perish song let's you take reuniculus if its the last mon with ease.

A good spinblocker is therefore vital. Tombs utility beating reuniculus is lessened due to p-song, but since excadrill isn't fast in rain, starmie becomes the most dangerous spinner, and tomb takes it out handily. Most ghosts fall to hydro pump, making jellicent seem attractive, but the added weaknesses he brings are problematic.

This is just the tip of the iceberg for rain stall. It has so much potential in the current metagame because it is very different than sand stall. This isn't the complete list of rain stall abusers, but its just a few major ones that I could think of, and that I use on my teams. Drizzletoed is an obvious requirement for rain stall to work, as rain dance lasts a maximum of 8 turns (damp rock).

So here it is, rain stall. What do you guys think? Is it viable? Opinions, opinions!

 

[IcyMan28]

Just a quick note, Hydration Vaporeon cannot run Baton Pass as it is an egg move, and thus illegal with Hydration given that all event Vaporeon have been male thus far.

 

[charizard24]

Another viable user of rain stall is Toxicroak. With Dry skin healing 12.5% of its health every turn and with its unique typing could be very hard to take down without the right moves.

I can imagine a Subpuncher set something like this

Subpuncher
Item: Black sludge/leftovers
Ability: Dry skin
Adamant (+Atk, -SpAtk)
252 Hp/252 Atk/4 Def
Substitute
Focus Punch/Drain punch
Sucker Punch
Swords Dance

Extremely hard to take down and a real pain to deal with. If yur opponent tries to set up on u then focus punch them to oblivion. If they try to break your sub then sucker punch away.

Toxicroak can also go Special with Nasty plot and given Toxic spikes support could wear down everything but steels with Venom shock

Shocking Suprise
Dry Skin~Leftovers
-Adamant/Jolly 252 speed 252 atk-
Toxic
Venom Shock
Substitute / Super Fang / Sucker Punch / Drain punch
Protect

Credit goes to PJ Graphix

Pretty much c'ped from the Toxicroak thread. Pretty effective if u can take out the steels that wall u.

 

[masterful]

Use a Bulk Up Toxicroak to clean up

Toxicroak@Lefties
Adamant
244 HP/252 Atk/12 Def
-Bulk Up
-Sub
-Drain Punch
-Sucker Punch

This thing works wonders against a team even slightly weakened

 

[Rakan]

For Toxicroak, I feel like drain punch is also a viable option over Focus Punch for even more healing, as you won't always have the luxury of being behind a substitute.

 

[voodoo pimp]

The problem I see with Focus/Sucker Punch as your only attacking options is that if you don't have a sub up, you have to predict correctly every turn (and ghost types can set up all over you), because both of your attacks are conditional.

 

[charizard24]

Another pokemon that i feel particulary shines in Rain stall is the All Powerful Parasect.

SubSeed

Item: Leftovers
Ability: Dry skin
Impish (+Def, -SpAtk)
252 Hp/100 def/152 spdef
Substitute
Protect/Spore
Leech seed
X-scissor/Giga Drain

Yup, u guessed it a Subseed set very effective given parasect's Ability and Lefties. With Leech seed it gains back almost 1/4 th of its health every turn which is pretty neat. X-scissor and Giga drain are to make sure that parasect isnt completely taunt bait and gives it some stab. I personally feel X-scissor is better as it does more damage of off para's solid attack. But u can use giga drain just for that extra bit of healing.

 

[charizard24]

The problem I see with Focus/Sucker Punch as your only attacking options is that if you don't have a sub up, you have to predict correctly every turn (and ghost types can set up all over you), because both of your attacks are conditional.

Well, i guess u could run an additional attack in the place of swords dance like Stone edge or Poison Jab for general coverage and to avoid being ghost bait.

Edit: I also slashed in Drain Punch for overall healing and reliability

 

[Rakan]

Nattorei is also a really good abuser of perma rain since it halves his crippling fire weakness, meaning that fire moves will usually not OHKO.

The set I have been using is as follows:

Nattorei@Leftovers
Nature: Careful
-Spikes/Stealth Rock
-Leech Seed
-Thunder Wave
-Power Whip

Thunder wave cripples switch ins, and leech seed provides pseudo-recovery. Thunderwave is also good for speedy grass switch ins, especially breloom since it can no longer heal with poison if it is paralyzed. Power whip prevents it from becoming complete taunt bait and does a number on most members of opposing rain teams.

 

[charizard24]

Dont forget Scizor as well.

I have had great success with this set:

Scizor@ Life Orb
Nature: Careful (+Spdef, -SpAtk)
56 Hp/252 Atk/200 Spdef
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- X-scissor/Bug Bite

With its main weakness to Fire cut in half by the rain. Scizor can set up on a bunch of things and completely rape with repeated bullet punches and superpowers. The moves provide pretty much neutral coverage and it can dent even the most dedicated physical walls. A +2 scizor could do almost 40% to a gliscor.

EDIT: Though, this is a little of topic as my set isnt rain stall... Just ignore it...

 

[Fluffy Otters]

Why are you using X-Scissor over Bug Bite which is stronger because of Technician and you probably should really consider Roost I think if you're trying to make it so specially defensive and switch Life Orb out since Life Orb+ no recovery is not helpful for it's surviveability. Leftovers or Metal Coat (Metal coat bluffs Choice and Leftovers for recovery) instead.

The ironic thing is that when running a set like that, it pretty much is a weaker Shubarago with Bullet Punch. You're not even using Roost which gives Scizor an advantage over a Special defensive Shubarago.

Speaking of Shubarago, people should also run that in rain to cut it's fire weakness with all the great typing of Scizor but bulkier (but without Roost). It could also set up it's own rain if necessary because Shubarago really only needs 3 moveslots with the last for Sub or Rain Dance. Rock Smash is a TERRIBLE option. With +4, it does not ohko a min/min Heatran without Life Orb. It's not worth it.

And Shubarago absolutely destroys common rain counters named Ludicolo, Tentacruel, Birijion, Nattorei, Burungeru, Abomasnow, Toxicroak, Rankurusu, Trick Room...

Shubarago Leftovers
Trait: Swarm
Nature Adamant
Evs: 224 hp/252 Atk/16 Def/16 SDef

-Swords Dance
-Megahorn
-Iron Head
-Substitute/Rain Dance

About as bulky and even stronger than Scizor. The only real things Scizor has over it is Bullet Punch, Roost, and potential of Superpower for Heatran. Shubarago deserves much more usage than it gets.

 

[jwoozie]

Another pokemon that i feel particulary shines in Rain stall is the All Powerful Parasect.

SubSeed

Item: Leftovers
Ability: Dry skin
Impish (+Def, -SpAtk)
252 Hp/100 def/152 spdef
Substitute
Protect
Leech seed
X-scissor/Giga Drain

Yup, u guessed it a Subseed set very effective given parasect's Ability and Lefties. With Leech seed it gains back almost 1/4 th of its health every turn which is pretty neat. X-scissor and Giga drain are to make sure that parasect isnt completely taunt bait and gives it some stab. I personally feel X-scissor is better as it does more damage of off para's solid attack. But u can use giga drain just for that extra bit of healing.

Parasect is great in the rain and this is a very good set. But where the hell is Spore? Every poke that gets Spore should find a way to incorporate it into all of their sets.

 

[Rakan]

Dont forget Scizor as well.

I have had great success with this set:

Scizor@ Life Orb
Nature: Careful (+Spdef, -SpAtk)
56 Hp/252 Atk/200 Spdef
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- X-scissor/Bug Bite

With its main weakness to Fire cut in half by the rain. Scizor can set up on a bunch of things and completely rape with repeated bullet punches and superpowers. The moves provide pretty much neutral coverage and it can dent even the most dedicated physical walls. A +2 scizor could do almost 40% to a gliscor.

EDIT: Though, this is a little of topic as my set isnt rain stall... Just ignore it...

Rain Stall doesn't necessarily consist of all walling and stalling. There can be some sweepers to counter, well, rain stall's counters etc etc. Just because a playstyle is stall doesn't mean you need all stalling pokemon. It's fine.

 

[ginganinja]

No love for Zapdos?

Awesome abilities in both Pressure AND Lightning Rod (when released)

Can use its Substitute set to great effect especially if you are running Tentacruel and have T-Spikes already up.

Also saying that Ludicolo is a beast inside rain. Twash used one in his Gen 4 Ubers team which got archived. I fought against somebody using his team and it was a bitch to take down. To give an example I got it down to 10% in one hit thanks to a Palkia Outrage when it switched in. A few turns later the bastard somehow got up to full health. It would have outstalled me completely had I not had Scizor (which I used as a pivot to U-Turn out and bring in Dialga without getting seeded) and Dialga which was a supporter set running Toxic which let me outstall it. Its a very underrated threat. Heck I have that log if anyone wants to take a look for themselves

 

[UnhandledException]

What except Nattorei sets up hazards for a rain based stall team?

 

[ginganinja]

What except Nattorei sets up hazards for a rain based stall team?

Tentacruel (Toxic Spikes)

Also I see Forretress sometimes and have come across it being used with Natt

 

[Pokémon Trainer R]

Two Pokémon I use in a rain stall team:

Lapras (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Hydration
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Rest
- Sheer Cold
- Surf

Dragonite (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Multi-Scale
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Mild Nature (+SAtk, -Def)
- Brick Break
- ExtremeSpeed
- Hurricane
- Surf

 

[charizard24]

Why are you using X-Scissor over Bug Bite which is stronger because of Technician and you probably should really consider Roost I think if you're trying to make it so specially defensive and switch Life Orb out since Life Orb+ no recovery is not helpful for it's surviveability. Leftovers or Metal Coat (Metal coat bluffs Choice and Leftovers for recovery) instead.

The ironic thing is that when running a set like that, it pretty much is a weaker Shubarago with Bullet Punch. You're not even using Roost which gives Scizor an advantage over a Special defensive Shubarago.

Speaking of Shubarago, people should also run that in rain to cut it's fire weakness with all the great typing of Scizor but bulkier (but without Roost). It could also set up it's own rain if necessary because Shubarago really only needs 3 moveslots with the last for Sub or Rain Dance. Rock Smash is a TERRIBLE option. With +4, it does not ohko a min/min Heatran without Life Orb. It's not worth it.

And Shubarago absolutely destroys common rain counters named Ludicolo, Tentacruel, Birijion, Nattorei, Burungeru, Abomasnow, Toxicroak, Rankurusu, Trick Room...

Shubarago Leftovers
Trait: Swarm
Nature Adamant
Evs: 224 hp/252 Atk/16 Def/16 SDef

-Swords Dance
-Megahorn
-Iron Head
-Substitute/Rain Dance

About as bulky and even stronger than Scizor. The only real things Scizor has over it is Bullet Punch, Roost, and potential of Superpower for Heatran. Shubarago deserves much more usage than it gets.

Well, you were right. Lol i forgot scizor even got roost *facepalm*. But your shubarago set is pretty interesting and i can see the advantages it could have. The only thing scizor has over it is Bp and roost.

Scizor Leftovers/Metal Coat
Trait: Technician
Nature: Careful (+Spdef, -SpAtk)
Evs: 100 Hp/196 Atk/212 Spdef

-Bullet Punch
-Swords Dance
-Roost
-Superpower

This scizor would still be pretty bulky and hit like a truck after a Swords dance or 2. it could survive most weak fire attacks and other special attacks. It can regain health quickly by using roost and then proceed to wreak havoc.

I had to tweak the EV's just right so that it would be able to survive a
252 SpA +ve natured Heatran Lava Plume at 100% in Rain and OHKO back with superpower.

But yeah, scizor shouldnt even be staying in on a heatran anyways so idk what that proved...

Parasect is great in the rain and this is a very good set. But where the hell is Spore? Every poke that gets Spore should find a way to incorporate it into all of their sets.

Oh lol I forgot spore :/

well anyways i added it in as an option.

 

[TacoBot]

Bronzong shits over everything in the rain with literally no weak after Rain. Set up screens and switch to Blissey for Wish, or use Trick Room and shit all over your opponents with Shubargo.

Rain is good for stall in general, removing weathers that chip away Lefties recovery as well as killing the momentum for Sun teams.

 

[Nails]

Umm... You don't list roar on vaporeon. That's one of the only things I'm actually sort of looking forward to using on rain stall, a vaporeon that doesn't have to choose between roar and toxic. Status immunity is just a kicker. For reference, even last Gen a vaporeon with a mixed ev spread (I used like max SpD with a lot of defense and bold and a lefties number, it was probably pretty inefficient) could stall out life orb starmies (took like 45%) and life orb gengars that werent running tbolt (or energy ball -.-). Getting rain rest basically takes away its 4mss, which is fantastic.

 

[RaRaRabbit]

I have posted this a few times in the past on other threads where we discussed rain teams... On my rain stall team, I ran...:

Politoed (duh)
Hydration Vaporeon (the glue)
Rain Dish Tentacruel (T-Spikes)
Dry Skin Parasect (amazing game breaker)
Nattorei (set up)
Spiritomb (choice banded spin blocker, can one shot Starmie with out getting one shot back by a rain boosted hydro pump)

Parasect is LITERALLY the most game breaking pokemon of the team. Rage quits galore, once you get rid of the enemy rapid spinner and get off one spore on somethign that cant get hit by toxic spikes, you will constantly be healing while sapping the opponent down to nothing.



Editing to add: Here is the previous thread we discussed rain stall. This is the thread. The first 3 pages is overall rain discussion with us discussing rain stall as well, but it isnt until page 3 where we really discuss good teams with rain stall.

 

[Acritter]

Skarmory is also great on Rain stall, as it loses its fire weakness and only has to fear Rain Thunders. Plus, nothing else listed here can phaze.

 

[masterful]

Bronzong shits over everything in the rain with literally no weak after Rain. Set up screens and switch to Blissey for Wish, or use Trick Room and shit all over your opponents with Shubargo.

Rain is good for stall in general, removing weathers that chip away Lefties recovery as well as killing the momentum for Sun teams.

It would be essentially weak to Water

 

[ensoriki]

StallToise @ leftovers
Rain dish
252 hp, 152 Def, 100 SpD,4 SpA
Calm nature.

~ Surf/Boil Over/ Hydro Pump
~ Sub
~ Protect
~ Toxic

This is stallrein without the passive damage. Blastoise hits harder as Wallrein is used in hail and Blastoise in rain. The rain boost gives blastoise a damage upgrade that allows it to play offensive. Completely stopped by Toxicroak however. Rapid spin's an option as well.With Toxic Spikes set up Toxic can be dropped though you won't be poisoning the ground immune.

Manaphy & forretress are obviously notable.

I like the built in offensive power to your water stallers, they don't match dedicated attackers but they do a fair bit of damage now so that they are not set up on with ease.

 

[Benlisted]

Seriously, the op needs parasect in it. The little mushroom critter is one of the best things about rain stall. Spore is very helpful for free subs or to ease stalling. Sect is also very useful for taking the electric attacks plaguing rain stall.

Also, let me say just how important tspikes are to rain stall. Without residual damage from the wdather, toxic damage is vital for rain stall. Hazard stacking and phazing likewise are very useful - roar on vappy, perish song and encore on toed, etc are all vital, and perish song let's you take reuniculus if its the last mon with ease.

A good spinblocker is therefore vital. Tombs utility beating reuniculus is lessened due to p-song, but since excadrill isn't fast in rain, starmie becomes the most dangerous spinner, and tomb takes it out handily. Most ghosts fall to hydro pump, making jellicent seem attractive, but the added weaknesses he brings are problematic.