Just ban ESpeed Spore and Dark Void instead of banning thundurus diggersby and whatever else after that... ban the broken strategy, not the best abuser. See: Drizzle + Swift Swim for how even OU can do it properly. but people in OMs are so stubborn... Look at Mix and Mega, Luc and DNite got banned and people still complain about Zygarde. JUST BAN THE MOVES.
Your entire argument here, and in MnM, as well as that of every other person that has had this sentiment in my awareness, has been "multiple Pokemon had this feature and got banned, why not ban the feature?"
The problem is correlation
is not causation. In MnM, we have three Pokemon bans: Dragonite, Lucario, and Cresselia. Cresselia was a nightmare with Sablenite -there was a phase there where people were trying to argue Sablenite should be banned, which was ridiculous, because Cresselia was the only Pokemon that was broken with it, or even anywhere close to it. You're essentially arguing that the MnM council should've barred
eight Pokemon from -atespeed that are not broken with it to
maybe unbreak two Pokemon. Why? Exactly how is this
increasing diversity, to ban -atespeed rather than banning the two most problematic abusers?
Also note that the Dynamic Punch/Zap Cannon No Guard abuse shenanigans got those two moves banned in MnM, rather than the abusers (Way too many to name, but Mew was the most popular one) or Pidgeotite, which is a great Mega Stone but not broken or uncompetitive when you remove Dynamic Punch and Zap Cannon from the equation. It's only with those two moves that it becomes an uncounterable hax nightmare.
Arguing that "two Pokemon got banned whom ran Extreme Speed is proof that we should ban Extreme Speed" is
faulty logic. It's treating correlation -two Pokemon share the two features of "brokenness" and "runs Extreme Speed"- as causation: "the brokenness is an exclusive property of them running Extreme Speed".
No. Full stop,
no. If you want to actually
support your position, explain what makes Extreme Speed fundamentally
so broken it should be removed from the meta entirely, while also explaining, in detail, how Mega Pinsir and Diggersby are totally fine and not broken if you remove Extreme Speed, then feel free to go ahead with that plan. I'm open to being proven wrong, personally. (I extend this to the MnM examples, though take it to the MnM thread if you care to)
But if you're just going to throw around this "correlation=causation" thing, just stop talking. That's wrong, it's always going to be wrong, you should never use it as logic in anything ever, certainly not as part of an argument about competitive games.
It's me literally asking why we are suspecting multiple mons when we could just restrict extreme speed and solve any doubt if any others Extreme speed abusers will be broken. Don't give me the "we're undoing other bans" - that's the point of new leadership, or "it's only X mons who are broken", we just wasted three weeks suspecting them one by one, we could've dealt with Set up as well, but apparently not.
You too. Generate an argument
supporting your position, and shut up with this faulty "correlation=causation" crap. Oh no,
two of our bans ran Extreme Speed before they were banned! So? Is Extreme Speed fundamentally broken?
How? Are Mega Pinsir and Diggersby fair and balanced without Extreme Speed? Show it.
Don't just point to "we banned more than one Pokemon that was running Extreme Speed" and pretend this is any kind of proof that Extreme Speed should be banned.
It's not.
We haven't even banned more than one Pokemon running Extreme Speed anyway. It's one ban, one suspect right now. That's an even
weaker basis for "let's ban Extreme Speed instead" than I've been making it out to be.
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On Diggersby, I personally don't think it's healthy for the meta. No wall can actually switch in on it and drive it out more than
maybe once, except by virtue of it missing the right coverage move -either it's running Knock Off or it's running Wild Charge- while offensive teams can't switch in on it or revenge it either. You also can't just sacrifice whatever's in front of it to revenge it, because it
will set up on you. STAB Normal move+Earthquake+Knock Off+Swords Dance can take on literally everything in the metagame except Skarmory, and even Skarmory takes
way too much damage from Diggersby.
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 201-238 (60.1 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
It doesn't even need Wild Charge to do so much damage that Skarmory is at high risk of being KOed by whatever gets Whirlwinded in. Barring Skarmory running King's Shield and getting the predict, Skarmory is merely a shaky check, not even a counter, even before Diggersby instead runs Wild Charge.
You can't even revenge non-Extreme Speed Diggersby with Talonflame reliably.
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Diggersby: 289-342 (92.9 - 109.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
Good odds, but not perfect. And a Shift Gear Diggersby would run bulk and
reliably survive it.
Pretty much the only reliable way to revenge Diggersby is to have a faster Ghost, and again, Shift Gear Diggersby would laugh at that plan.
"Oh, but Shift Gear Diggersby doesn't hit as hard as Swords Dance". Sure. And then Shell Smash Diggersby rises to popularity. It's not even as fragile as you'd think because, as with Shift Gear Diggersby, it can just run bulk and still outspeed everything after boosting.
Diggersby is like Deoxys-Attack or Aegislash in OU. You
have to know its set to have any chance of countering it safely. A single misstep is liable to cost you a Pokemon, and it may cost you
the match. You can't scout it in any kind of safety, but you have to scout it, full stop.
Keep in mind the team I've been running has half the team made of Diggersby checks and I
still can't reliably deal with it, and this is with literally every Diggersby running Extreme Speed as their Sketched move. Hell, I can say with complete confidence that every set I've fought is Extreme Speed/Earthquake/Knock Off
or Wild Charge/Swords Dance, and knowing this to be true hasn't actually made it possible to generate a counter. I'm not even having to deal with "well, some of them are Shell Smash". Diggersby can run what amounts to the one set and still be this utterly ridiculous nightmare.
(As an aside, though it's not currently being suspected: Tornadus-Incarnate hasn't been a big deal for me. Sap Sipper Goodra with recovery is a hard stop to it, if it's not running Superpower it can't touch Specially Defensive Tyranitar, etc)