Stealth rock discussion

[JSND]

nowadays entry hazard is one of the most important thing in the metagame
several leads after leads is selected to bring the sucess of bringing the so called entry hazard and/or preventing the opponent to get the advantage
As all of us know, the advent of DP metagame has give us the most used move in the metagame Stealth rock which unlike spike only need 1 turn of set up to function maximally and arguably the best entry hazard as of now

now i want all opinion on how stealth rock affect the metagame whether its a positive and negative opinion f.e:
i think stealth rock not only overcentralize the metagame it greatly speeds up the metagame because of the 1 turn set up that it need
the downside is sometime it's causing an overeliance on using stealth rock
this somehow making the game quite boring sometime seeing roughly 60% of every team we face having Stealth,Rapid Spi,Blocker,etc

thx in advance

 

[Ericcc]

I'd say the chances of us seeing entry hazards on a team is definitely higher than only 60% :|
SR is definitely a centralizing force in today's metagame, but instead of complaining, it seems that people have come to accept entry hazards as a standard part of gameplay.
Mostly everyone uses it, and for good reason. Without entry hazards, the metagame would slow down a lot,

 

[Ninjarabian]

I don't like how Stealth Rock works. In my opinion, the most balanced way to speed up the metagame would be giving a simple switchout penalty, say, 12.5% or 10% of whatever you switch out, everytime you switch out, regardless of typing. It would always happen as well, preventing Stealthrock to be a make-or-break aspect of certain typing of pokemon.

 

[jokey665]

I think hazards as they are now are mostly fine, but it would be interesting to see a metagame without them. The only real things I'd like to see changed in gen 5 are these:

-4x weak takes 1/3 instead of 1/2
-Grass-type SR added, cannot coexist with SR (placing one removes other)
-Rock Smash/Brick Break breaks stealth rock on your side of the field
-Heat Wave/Eruption/Lava Plume get rid of Grass SR on your side of the field
-Defog removes all hazards from both sides

 

[ARandomDude]

this somehow making the game quite boring sometime seeing roughly 60% of every team we face having Stealth,Rapid Spi,Blocker,etc

57.7% of Starmie (13.45%) use Rapid Spin, which means that 7.76% of teams have Starmie as a spinner. Forretress sits at 7%, and Tentacruel at 4%. So to be generous, only 20% of teams have a rapid spinner. Ghosts are on 1/3 of OU teams. So hardly the SR RS Ghost centralization you describe.

 

[wavedash]

People who oppose Stealth Rock make one assumption, which I think is completely flawed logic: Stealth Rock is bad.

 

[-FUCK-]

I don't like how Stealth Rock works. In my opinion, the most balanced way to speed up the metagame would be giving a simple switchout penalty, say, 12.5% or 10% of whatever you switch out, everytime you switch out, regardless of typing. It would always happen as well, preventing Stealthrock to be a make-or-break aspect of certain typing of pokemon.

There is a penelty to switching: the free turn you give your opponent, thats penetly enough and has been for the last 3 generations. No need to fix something that wasn't broken.

 

[Alex Practice]

I love Stealth Rock, man. Salamence would be even more irritating without it.

But I actually do think that Stealth Rock should cap at 25%. 50% just from switching in is retarded.

 

[Octagon]

I love Stealth Rock, man. Salamence would be even more irritating without it.

and without SR there wouldn't be such a long debate whether or not Mence is Uber ;D

The only real problem i see is that rapid spin is an ATTACK. srsly, if starmie or something were to spin around and just "pass through the ghost", logically wouldnt that still make the entry hazards disappear even though the opp isn't affected? maybe it's just Gamefreak's way of telling people to use more ghost types...

 

[bread]

The only thing I don't like about SR is the arbitrary typing of rock (although it makes some sense as Spikes and Toxic Spikes don't affect flying types). The presence of SR alone completely cripples pokemon like yanmega and charizard simply due to their typing.

 

[Alex Practice]

That's why I'm saying, give it a 25% cap. It would help to break down bulky/threatening Pokemon Pokemon such as Gyarados, Zapdos, and Salamence, without severely crippling Pokemon such as Articuno and Charizard.

A 12.5% fixed rate would work much better, too, I think. Anything besides 50%. That's just ridiculous.

 

[AJC]

the main thing those who claim SR isn't bad overlook is it's the effect it has on the metagame just suicide leads alone to me shows how overpowered SR is if your willing to pretty much battle 5-0 from the start just to lay down SR something can't be right about SR.

also many of the current metagame offensive sweepers only function at 100% if SR is down on the field mostly because SR makes it so you don't have to work so hard to get that damage to get key 2HKO's or OHKOs

 

[neato]

Stealth rock on the offensive is extremely centralizing.
Using that above poster's numbers. 57.7% of Starmie (13.45%) use Rapid Spin, which means that 7.76% of teams have Starmie as a spinner. Forretress sits at 7%, and Tentacruel at 4%. So to be generous, only 20% of teams have a rapid spinner. Ghosts are on 1/3 of OU teams. If your team does not have a spinner, then your team must not be weak to stealth rock. That one move just centralized your entire team.
Garchomp was at 30% usage when he was considered to be centralizing.

I'd also like to point out that stealth rock compared to spikes is akin to giving yourself 2 free turns. 1 layer of stealth rock does more damage to the top 50 OU pokemon than 2 layers of spikes. Basically, when compared to spikes, using that one turn to use stealth rock is actually better than using 2 turns to lay spikes.

That being said, without stealth rock you would have focus sash teams up the wazoo. the best thing for game freak to do come black/silver is to cap stealth rock damage to 25% and add a unblockable spin like defog.

 

[Shizzle]

SR in my opinion has made the metagame more fast paced, as well as more caution when switching, making the prediction game that much harder. The main thing I dislike about it, is that it royally fucked over so many pokes, its just disgusting to see pokemon like Yanmega, Articuno and even Ho Oh be so overshadowed, simply because of this one move. I think it is too centralizing, and many people are limited to choosing a certain amount of pokes weak to SR, simply because of there typing, even though they are just your average pokemon. IMO SR should have either a 25% cap, or deal 12% damage regardless.

 

[shrang]

Haven't we had this discussion like a billion times already (Of course I'm exaggerating)?? I remember when SR was brought up as a Suspect for UU as well. Yes, SR does make a bunch of Pokemon bad (eg Yanmega, Charizard, etc), but it keeps a whole lot of them in check as well. Mence has been mentioned, Gyarados would have a field day without SR as would Zapdos, Moltres would actually be really powerful without SR as well.

I haven't been here THAT long, but I wonder if there's been an "SR free tournament" or something like that?? That would be interesting to see.

 

[FFMaster]

Stop the Rocks Tournament
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46172

 

[haunter]

We've already had discussion threads on the subject. If there's something RELEVANT to add to what has already been said, you can bump this thread.