SubPunchCorak Surprise

[Black_Knight]

I was messing around with a new team and for some reason decided I wanted to try out Toxicroak, so i worked on a team around him and it has worked out a lot better than expected, though I want people's opinions as well.

Team Building Process:
1)I started out with Toxicroak as the base

2)I needed a starter so I chose Forretress, his Bulk and ability to Spin gives me an extra spot to work with.

3)I needed something for Forre's quad Fire weakness so I chose Heatran as he works well with Toxicroak due to Croak gaining a Fire weakness for Water Immunity.

4)I wanted a Spinblocker so I chose Rotom-W, he also helps Heatran alot blocking Fighting and Ground moves.

5)I wanted something else that was Immune to ground as Croak and Heatran were important, I decided on Gliscor who also can help against Sandstorm Teams and serve as a Lucario Counter (if they don't have Agility or Ice Punch)

6)I had a hard time with the final slot but i decided I wanted a Pursuit user, I decided on Scizor with his awsome ability.

7)After a little bit of feedback and testing I replaced Gliscor with Flygon and added some other changes to the team's moves.

Entry Hazzard Weakness:
6 Immune to Toxic Spikes
0 Unnaffected by SR, 0 Weak to SR, 5 Neutral to SR, 1 Resist SR
2 Unnaffected by Spikes

Team:

Forretress-Leftovers
EVs:200 HP/52 Atk/56 Def/200 SpD
Ability:Sturdy
Nature:Relaxed
Stealth Rock
Spikes
Payback
Rapid Spin

With the SpD investment he can take some SpA and surpise the opponents by keep setting up if I want. I have given him some Def EVs as I was noticing he was taking too hard hits from Physical Attacks, the Attack investments are for Payback so it can deal more solid damage if I use it, which I seem to do somehow in every match played. You may think getting the stacks up is hard but you'd be surprised how many people have let me set up SR and 3 Spikes.

Rotom-W-Choice Scarf
EVs:252 SpA/252 Spe/4 SpD
Ability:Levitate
Nature:Timid
Shadow Ball
Thunder Bolt
Hydro Pump
Trick

A great Spin blocker in my opinion. A lot of people when they see him have to think about which of the three most common sets will be used RestTalk, Specs, or Scarf. I like the Scarf as it lets me hit things it may normally not. Starmie goes with a STAB Shadow Ball or Thunder Bolt, if they were to use a Donphan Hydro Pump, some other uncommon ones: Claydol-Shadow Ball/Hydro Pump. Hitmontop I'd probably use Thunder Bolt on if he tried to set up Foresight then hope I'm faster (which I think I would be?). He is also a great Pokemon for Heatran's survival coming into Fighting and Ground moves makes him even more dangerous. Trick is here to lock Walls like Blissey into one useless move allowing me to pick it apart or use it as set up fodder for Toxicroak. He can still take out Forre with Thunder Bolts rather easily.

Scizor-Choice Band
EVs: 56 HP/252 Atk/192 SpD/8 Spe
Ability: Technician
Nature:Adamant
Bullet Punch
Pursuit
Superpower
U-Turn

This Scizor can help in a lot of times. If a Gengar comes in with my SR up Bullet Punch OHKO's it. I cna Pursuit things, Superpower Blissey, or U-Turn if I think they will switch. Technician+CB+STAB Bullet Punch can be deadly and a lot of times I will just use Bullet Punch because it normally deals great damage. Scizor is mostly here as a filler but he does serve the team as a second priority user and has Pursuit which can benefit the team greatly.

Heatran-Leftovers
EVs:248 HP/ 128 Spe/ 132 SpD
Ability:Flsh Fire
Nature:Calm
Lava Plume
Roar
Rest
Sleep Talk

With the addition of Flygon I wanted to use a more bulky set for Heatran. The RestTalk set seemed the most appropriate in my opinion and can increase his life span quite a lot. Opponents see him and assume ScarfTran then get surprised when their physical attackers are burned by Lava Plume then I can stall and still hit other Pokemon. He loves the Fire moves that could be launched at Forre or Toxicroak. I wouldn't want him in on stuff like Suicune for too long but he can stay in there for a few hits. Roar makes him a good phazer and pisses off a boosted Pokemon like Suicune.


Flygon-Choice Scarf
EVs: 252 Stk/ 252 Spe/ 4 SpD
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Levitate
Earthquake
Outrage
Thunder Punch
U-Turn

He is my prime Dragon Counter and can take on Sweeping Starmie the best on the team. U-Turn gives him his great scouting coverage that can bug the opponent. I have found Flygon useful and do thanks SOMALIA for reccomending I use one. I do miss my Gliscor a bit though the Speed tradeoff has helped the team. Flygon'd greatest weapon is his speed do that's why I've mentioned that the most. Not a whole lot else to say great revenge killer and a great scouter who can take care of Dragons/Sweeping Starmie and others I may not have totally seen yet.

Toxicroak-Black Sludge
EVs:252 Atk/252 Spe/4 Def
Ability:Dry Skin
Nature:Adamant
Substitute
Focus Punch
Sucker Punch
Thunder Punch

This Toxicroak has surprised a lot of opponents when I throw him on a Vaporeon, as most Vaporeon carry Surf and Toxic it seems. I can take my time set up a Substitue then use Thunder Punch. The opponent normally tries to switch out but can be hit by Sucker Punch or Focus Punch. Sucker Punch lets me keep my Substitute a good bit of time normally. I had a hard time choosing which set but as soon as I saw the SubPunch set I just knew that was the set I wanted and I'm glad I chose it.

Also again sorry for no pics I did read the post and did try I used the Mountain thing and put the site and the

tags it refused to come up. I was trying to use the pictures for the Pokemon on Smogon's Pokedex.

 

[SOMALIA]

Hi there Black knight, on some Pokemon it would help to expand your explanation on how they help your team and their role that they play.

1)You don't need hidden power fire on your scarfed rotom for several good reasons. You resist the majority of steel types and also locking yourself into hidden power fire doesn't seem very smart. I'd suggest changing it for trick. An ideal way to crippling walls or giving scarf to a pokemon that is in the process of setting up, could be a real life saver.

2)Minor nitpick but give your Scizor 8 speed evs from it's special defensive investment. Don't worry you still will be able to take the same amount of hits from pokemon such as Gengar and starmie.

3) You have great weakness to scarf dragons such as flygon as well as Water type sweepers such as Offensive Cune and Starmie. To help fix this I would recommend changing Gliscor into a scarf flygon which is an excellent revenge killer unlike Rotom who isn't nearly as comfortable being switche din to revenge kill due to pursuit and the amount of set up sweepers that come in on it.

Flygon@Choice scarf
- Outrage
- U-turn
- Thunder Punch/Stone edge
- Earthquake
252att/252speed/4hp
Jolly

Flygon greatly aids you in many ways gliscor couldn't. You can now revenge kill +2 dd Tyranitar as well as all non scarf fragile sweepers including starmie, Jolteon etc. Also scout thanks to U-turn.

Now that you got that to keep the synergy going and not to let pokemon such as skarmory and fortress take advantage of you having to keep switching with the amount of choice users you have, remove Heatran's scarf.

Heatran@Shuca berry/Leftovers
- Fire Blast
- Earth power
- Hidden power Ice
- Explosion/Toxic
Hasty
252Sp.att/252speed/4hp


how to add pictures


get the link of the image you want and place it wherever here on your post. then put

at the end of it (no spaces between the

and end of link)

 

[Black_Knight]

Idk I do find Dragons to be a pain but I like my Gliscor. I will try it and sees what happens.

 

[Black_Knight]

Bump for edits...

 

[Smith]

Hey I got your message, cool team and toxicroak is very underrated in general. However, something I immediately notice about the team is that it has dual scarfers. This might work for you but personally I don't like having two weak-ish Pokemon trying to revenge kill, really Flygon + Rotom is pretty redundant. I don't see Starmie being a problem, as in addition to Rotom you have Toxicroak who can switch into a Starmie and use some prediction (sucker punch if it uses an attacking move, sub otherwise). I also don't see Dragons as much of a problem, you have a Scizor as well as Rotom. Kingdra is a bit more tricky but Toxicroak forces it to use outrage, making it set up fodder for Scizor to put a dent in it. Basically, I can see where SOMALIA is coming from, but I think a less extreme solution would be better. Using bulky scarf Rotom makes many of the above threats much easier to handle.

Rotom-w @ Choice Scarf
252 HP / 252 Spe / 4 SpAtk
-Shadow Ball
-Thunderbolt
-Trick
-Will-o-wisp

The main differences are a huge increase in HP, meaning Rotom can switch in more often to counter what he needs to counter. Wil o wisp over Hydro Pump means that you can get things like DD Dragonite, SD Lucario or even DD Tyranitar in a pinch. It also has the same effect of hydro pump, that is, hitting Tyranitar as they switch in to prevent them from pursuiting you. The difference is this works on ALL pursuit users. This allows you to change Flygon from a non-scarf variety.

I hate to make you take a suggestion and then take another for what you already had, but Stalbreaker Gliscor works great here. Stall is seriously an issue for this team, and I don't see how you can beat it beyond Rotom tricking something and then (?). This at least somewhat alleviates this issue, and gives you a better stop to Lucario and Tyranitar. If you really like Flygon for some reason, I suppose Mixed LO Flygon could work too.

I find Heatran's set out of place, that is mostly a stall set and on a team like this I don't see what you're going for. Anyway I think a LO set with Taunt should be used instead because, again, stall is huge problem with the current team and this certainly helps that. Also I just think you're generally low on sweepers, some extra offensive power never killed anyone.

Overall pretty cool team, toxicroak ftw. Hope this helps.

 

[Black_Knight]

So I should test this new Rotom, try Gliscor again, and try LO Heatran? Also thanks I was hoping someone would like the idea of a Toxicroak team, he is underrated and surprises so many opponents getting me a few RAGEquits lol

 

[Tater Tot]

Infernape can rip this team to shred in any of it's variations. Only flygon even remotely stands a chance at surviving. Enemy Heatran (especially lead) also give you problems if they predict your heatran and get it with earth power. Lead Aerodactyl will just taunt your Forretress and make short work of Toxicroak. You may want to consider replacing Heatran with a bulky water, or even just a water. Vaporeon and Suicune are great, and you can make Suicune less bulky and more deadly with

Suicune @ leftovers
Timid
252 Speed, 252 Special Attack, 6 HP
Surf/Hydro Pump
Ice beam
Calm Mind
HP Electric

 

[Siegrin]

What are you trying to achieve with Thunder Punch, it opposes opposing water pokemon, but since it's not a STAB move, it won't kill say... a starmie, who will in turn ice beam your flygon to heaven

 

[Black_Knight]

If I replace Heatran Toxicroak will have nothing to switch into rather safely. The flygon I am thinking of removing, I'm testing a little bit out with some other Pokemon provided