Why wouldn't you? Garchomp's tier classification is the most controversial of any Pokemon this gen. Two of its better checks were just removed as you say. Why wouldn't people jump to (ab)use it? To people who truly believe it to be uber, this may be their last chance to use Garchomp in an OU-like environment. Neither Manaphy nor Latias have nearly the amount of fanboys and anti-fanboys. Ranting about Garchomp usage less than 24 hours after the suspect ladder has been up is a bit much imo.Uh, Garchomp not to be on every team.
Okay I'm calling bs on this one. In order to use Sandstream with Garchomp, you have to use Hippowdon or Tyranitar. Not only do neither of these pokemon match up well against Manaphy, they're both actually pretty much countered by it. And this is just Manaphy—if we're talking about supporting Manaphy, we're talking about teams that likely have Kingdra, and Vaporeon, and Starmie, all of which check both Hippo and Tyra at the very least.Garchomp useage also hampers Manaphy. Sandstorm is used with Garchomp as much as possible. I understand, that this means that people are abusing Garchomp to the fullest extent, which is what we are supposed to do on the Suspect ladder. However, Sand Veil abuse hampers others from abusing what probobly made Manaphy Uber in the first place, Hydration Rest. Due to larger useage of T-Tar and Hippowdon in Suspect than OU, Manaphy is suffering more than it would in the normal OU metagame. In other words, we are not testing it at the potenual it could be at if it entered OU, simply because of Garchomp centralisation.
If Garchomp is indeed hampering Manaphy, then a case can be made for Manaphy in the future. Remember that the suspect ladder has only just gone up, so it could be a while before people shift toward abusing Manaphy over Garchomp (if they do). Finally, it's not like the Sandstorm use is THAT much more prevalent than in normal OU. According to the Sept. stats, Tyranitar was number 6 at 17.6%, and it's usage will surely remain steady if Latias remains OU (which is extremely likely). Manaphy will be playing in a Sand-based metagame anyways, though admittedly to a lesser extent.You guys, I stated that I expected Centralisation. I mean, the stats placed him at 60%. However near 100%? Am I not allowed to voice my opinion on the effects that Garchomp's over-useage is having on us finding out if Manaphy is broken, without having my head bitten off?
Of course you can voice your opinion.
The only reason I would even consider giving Garchomp the title controversial was because it was OU in the first place, unlike every other suspect. In other words, the bulk of the community have experiance with it. In addittion, it is not banned by Nintendo in things like that Battle Tower, like most Ubers are. This again, leads to more people moaning about why Garchomp is Uber.
Let's not get carried away here - the battle tower bans things like Jirachi, Celebi, and even Phione.
Just a little annoyed at how I voice my observations and opinions on the damageing effect this is having on Manaphy, making it possibly appear less broken than it is, and 4 people complain at me.
There's a reason quite a lot of people voted 'Abstain' for Manaphy in the suspect vote.
I have noticed this. SD Garchomp with Magnezone support has been devestating to face in the 3 or so battles I came across the combination, and suddenly Garchomp's biggest threats are eliminated.From what I've experienced thus far, Magnezone is a must if you're running SD Garhcomp. It single-handedly counters Garchomp's biggest threats such as Bronzong, Skarmory, Scizor and Choice Scarf Jirachi.
What's the argument for Latios being uber? The 110 SpA on Latias and Salamence are so close to Uber territory that Latios' extra +20 is the breaking point, despite having no versatility in other areas like the former two? Latias has buttloads of good support options and sets up more easily, Salamence is arguably a more dangerous wallbreaker and sweeper because it's a better mixed attacker and DDer. I'm absolutely not convinced that Latios being ~12.5% stronger in the one area it actually competes in, donning Scarf/Specs and just blasting shit, makes it uber. It's not even as good as its sister overall, how is an inferior pokemon more uber than a better one?I'm pretty sure Latias is going to be voted OU by a large majority again. Maybe it's because we're already used to deal with her, but I see absolutely no possible arguments for her to be Uber.
Apparently the rest of the community is.I'm absolutely not convinced that Latios being ~12.5% stronger in the one area it actually competes in, donning Scarf/Specs and just blasting shit, makes it uber.
Base 130 offence and 100+ speed = Uber especially if you're a dragon ;)...not even gonna bother saying anything about Garchomp. Sigh. -_-
What's the argument for Latios being uber? The 110 SpA on Latias and Salamence are so close to Uber territory that Latios' extra +20 is the breaking point, despite having no versatility in other areas like the former two? Latias has buttloads of good support options and sets up more easily, Salamence is arguably a more dangerous wallbreaker and sweeper because it's a better mixed attacker and DDer. I'm absolutely not convinced that Latios being ~12.5% stronger in the one area it actually competes in, donning Scarf/Specs and just blasting shit, makes it uber. It's not even as good as its sister overall, how is an inferior pokemon more uber than a better one?
Mr.E if you looked at my vote in the Stage 3 thread, instead of randomly quoting my post, you'd have seen that I voted Latios OU, and I did it just for the reasons you wrote above....not even gonna bother saying anything about Garchomp. Sigh. -_-
What's the argument for Latios being uber? The 110 SpA on Latias and Salamence are so close to Uber territory that Latios' extra +20 is the breaking point, despite having no versatility in other areas like the former two? Latias has buttloads of good support options and sets up more easily, Salamence is arguably a more dangerous wallbreaker and sweeper because it's a better mixed attacker and DDer. I'm absolutely not convinced that Latios being ~12.5% stronger in the one area it actually competes in, donning Scarf/Specs and just blasting shit, makes it uber. It's not even as good as its sister overall, how is an inferior pokemon more uber than a better one?
Oversimplifying it, IMO. Because Salamence arguably has the better 130+ stat, since there isn't an end-all wall like Blissey to wall it.Base 130 offence and 100+ speed = Uber especially if you're a dragon ;)
Apparently [most of] the rest of the community is retarded."I'm absolutely not convinced that Latios being ~12.5% stronger in the one area it actually competes in, donning Scarf/Specs and just blasting shit, makes it uber."
Apparently the rest of the community is.
I don't know what you're even saying here. Do you actually think Latias and Salamence are Uber...
I said AND: Salamence has Base 100 speed!Oversimplifying it, IMO. Because Salamence arguably has the better 130+ stat, since there isn't an end-all wall like Blissey to wall it.
Ok, I should have included the no Stealth Rock weakness part too. :)In addition to the extra speed, Latios doesn't carry a stealth rock weakness, doesn't have a 4x weakness, has the means to remove its biggest threats (pursuiters are ruined by Specs Surf or Thunderbolt), and can Trick Blissey. To top it all off, it has just the right attack stat to pull off a mixed set decently, thanks to its higher speed.
What makes you right and the majority wrong? Tiering is a subjective process.I quoted your post, Haunter, because you bought up Latios and Latias. Nowhere did I indict you for arguing contrary to the point I made.
Apparently [most of] the rest of the community is retarded.
Quite the contrary to your question, Latios is completely non-worthy of Uber status. It's seemingly too late to make an impact on the suspect process now but that doesn't mean people can't still be further educated or the suspect process can't change again.
this is a terrible argument, kyogre would also make a good counter to specially based teamsI think latias is one of the best counters for special-based teams. Blissey can do it very well, but, if explosion finish her, it's GG.
Latias can't be ubber.