Resource SV OU Indigo Disk Viability Ranking Thread

[Ehmcee]

+ A+ -> A (Maybe even A-)

Might be jumping the gun, but losing Archaludon is an incredibly big blow to Rain teams, the offensive core of Barra+Archa is no more, rain has a lot more structural issues to take care of now, which overall merits a lower viability on these two.

 

[Heatranator]

Been playing around with a few niche styles, and from my testing I have to say
-> C+/B-
Sticky webs can still be amazing, as CB gouging fire is an amazing tool for sticky webs as it is a decently fast and STRONG attacker. Ribombee can even set up sunny day for gouging to make it even better. I think sticky webs is underexplored and can dominate some common teams.
-> UR/D
With arch being banned, rain teams struggle a lot more with grass types. They still have Zapdos, but most of the time raging bolt is the preferred electric type. Even if you do run Zapdos, overqwil can come in very handy. It is a swift swim mon that can threaten out various grass types. A simple SD+lo set works wonders and it has enough bulk to take a neutral hit. It even can free up a moveslot on Barra by running aqua jet which allows it to run ice fang to threaten counters. Overall, while it can be difficult to slot on a team, overqwil can be really great. Even has spikes if you want to use that.

 

[malomyotismon]

+ A+ -> A (Maybe even A-)

Might be jumping the gun, but losing Archaludon is an incredibly big blow to Rain teams, the offensive core of Barra+Archa is no more, rain has a lot more structural issues to take care of now, which overall merits a lower viability on these two.

when one door closes another opens, i'd be interested to hear peoples thoughts on the rankings of other rain sweepers like kingdra now the competition has reduced.

 

[Tio Chico]

D > B-

Set

Goodra-Hisui @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sap Sipper
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 208 HP / 252 SpA / 48 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Thunder
- Flash Cannon
- Knock Off

If Venusaur, which has only a niche in weather can be in B-, then...

Hoodra eats moves like it's nothing, WWake, Manaphy, Volcanion, Serperior, Dragapult, as well as offering some resistance and security against Kyurem and Raging Bolt.
It has good coverage and has access to Knock Off, helping and clearing the way for Raging Bolt.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2063552900
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2063584179

Calcs

252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Ice Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 208 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Goodra-Hisui: 138-164 (39 - 46.4%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Earth Power vs. 208 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Goodra-Hisui: 138-164 (39 - 46.4%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 208 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Goodra-Hisui: 126-148 (35.6 - 41.9%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 208 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Goodra-Hisui: 76-91 (21.5 - 25.7%)
+3 252 SpA Manaphy Ice Beam vs. 208 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Goodra-Hisui: 96-114 (27.1 - 32.2%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Draco Meteor vs. 208 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Goodra-Hisui: 145-172 (41 - 48.7%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. 208 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Goodra-Hisui in Rain: 67-79 (18.9 - 22.3%)
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Dragon Pulse vs. 208 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Goodra-Hisui: 97-115 (27.4 - 32.5%)

 

[pika pal]

when one door closes another opens, i'd be interested to hear peoples thoughts on the rankings of other rain sweepers like kingdra now the competition has reduced.

I'd be curious because most of the other Rain Sweepers don't really do what Archaludon did to earn that level of synergy and viability. I would probably expect certain tanky traders or other stopper mons to see play like Goodra-H, more Raging Bolt, or heck, maybe something weird like Brute Bonnet as a Grass breaker that bolsters against Sun if we're getting really niche.

 

[malomyotismon]

I'd be curious because most of the other Rain Sweepers don't really do what Archaludon did to earn that level of synergy and viability. I would probably expect certain tanky traders or other stopper mons to see play like Goodra-H, more Raging Bolt, or heck, maybe something weird like Brute Bonnet as a Grass breaker that bolsters against Sun if we're getting really niche.

As suggested above by heatranator Overquil offers up a unique answer to these problems rain teams can face in absence of archaludon having to various support moves like spikes, swift swim ect. it certainly has a solid niech now that it didn't really justify it as much before the ban.

 

[taimote]

I feel like Moltres is very underrated. It can very effectively deal with Zamazenta (except tera fire), iron valiant, serperior, great tusk, iron threads, kingambit (except tera fire), volcarona, enamorus, rillaboom, meowscarada, heatran, skarm (and that is in the top ranks, you have many more below) ... flame body can also be a hail mary vs. moon and other physical sweepers to fish for burns. It can dissuade u-turn, progress with will-o-wisp and even unboosted flamethrower can chip good damage. I am not saying it is a meta defining mon, but it has qualities as glue for a team which deserve much higher ranking than C+. Also now that rain is not as prevalent since the bridge ban it is more splashable (although I loved to use tera grass to counter barraskewda)

Edit: I suggest C+ > B

 

[SnackWasTaken]

When will archaludon be removed from the list?

 

[awyp]

When will archaludon be removed from the list?

Probably the next VR update, Pecharunt was Unranked for a good while after release until the VR got updated a couple weeks ago.

 

[DaTruPro75]

I feel like Moltres is very underrated. It can very effectively deal with Zamazenta (except tera fire), iron valiant, serperior, great tusk, iron threads, kingambit (except tera fire), volcarona, enamorus, rillaboom, meowscarada, heatran, skarm (and that is in the top ranks, you have many more below) ... flame body can also be a hail mary vs. moon and other physical sweepers to fish for burns. It can dissuade u-turn, progress with will-o-wisp and even unboosted flamethrower can chip good damage. I am not saying it is a meta defining mon, but it has qualities as glue for a team which deserve much higher ranking than C+. Also now that rain is not as prevalent since the bridge ban it is more splashable (although I loved to use tera grass to counter barraskewda)

Edit: I suggest C+ > B

I feel like it doesn't deal with Meows too well because Meows will just knock its boots off, and it can no longer switch into meows if rocks are up.

 

[Magcargo]

-> A-
They were hating on our favorite metal bird, but this Pokemon is still quite good imo. ID + BP is a very good set that is able to handle a number of the big guys in the higher ranks like Gambit, Lando-T, Rillaboom, Skarm, Zama-C Zama-H (thanks to Pressure), and it has other good options like U-Turn as a failsafe vs the various cleaners like Excadrill and Gambit if they run Tera Ghost. Pressure is also a fantastic tool vs stall team due to quickly depleting the PP of attacks such as Spikes from Gliscor, Stealth Rock from Blissey / Fable, etc. I've found Corv to have a much easier time Defogging in this metagame as well due to Gholdengo having less usage. Corv is still fairly exploitable with tech like Encore and Taunt, but it is still solid enough in the current metagame & forms potent cores with other Pokemon like G-King and Ting-Lu. IMO, Corv isn't that much worse than Skarmory and should be the same or only slightly lower.

-> A
This Pokemon is still quite good imo. Choice Scarf Meow is a fantastic speed control option on Balance, being a fantastic revenge killer against many key threats such as Roaring Moon, Dragapult, Raging Bolt, Ogerpon-W, etc. and still providing crucial Knock Off utility for partners such as Skarmory, certain Gliscor variants, Ting-Lu, etc. It can still be somewhat exploitable via contact punishing abilities or items, but even these tactics aren't entirely safe due to the threat of knock off severely punishing most of these Pokemon like Volcarona, Skarmory, Lando-T, etc.

-> S-
This Pokemon really can do it all. As a catch all wall for special attackers, Gking can feel a bit exploitable with tech like Tera Steel, but Gking's movepool is deep enough that it can easily adapt to its surrounding, be it with tech like Focus Blast or Trick + Black Sludge for Kingambit, Toxic for Raging Bolt / Volcarona, Psyshock for Iron Moth, etc. The sheer amount of utility that Gking provides in this metagame via its Future Sight + Chilly combo and special walling capabilities makes it worth ranking next to the top three mons, espicially since all three of them appreciate GKing's presence.

-> B+
This mon undoubtably requires support, but if the pre-requisites are met, it is able to cheese its way through a number of structures, be it balance, sun, Rain, etc. A variant I've been enjoying is Sub Tera Steel Tail Glow, which just effortlessly slices through balances that rely on Gking as their sole special wall. It does struggle more vs offense, but I have found it to not be entirely useless in that MU either because of its high Speed and Bulk.

 

[RyukTheDarkrai]

They were hating on our favorite metal bird, but this Pokemon is still quite good imo. ID + BP is a very good set that is able to handle a number of the big guys in the higher ranks like Gambit, Lando-T, Rillaboom, Skarm, Zama-C

Magcargo Crowned Zama is locked in Ubers you silly billy

Highly agree with the Galarking nom. Chilly Reception screwing with opposing weather setters is the icing on the cake when you're also pivoting out and restoring health with Regenerator while still applying offensive pressure thanks to Future Sight.

 

[Heatranator]

Alright, most likely the last viabilty post I'm going to make before major meta shifts happen/they update the viabilty rankings. So to bash them all out.

-> A/A-
Enamorus I believe is a sidegrade to serperior, which I also suggested to be A- tier. It's speed tier, while great, is just below base 110 which means stuff like waterpon outspeeds it. This means it has to run scarf, which severly constricts its ability to snowball. Unlike serperior, it has to use tera stellar blast to boost up its special attack with contrary, which is very exploitable and can easily be revenge killed. If it can get going, yes, it can be extremely threatening, but it is very easy to predict its set, so I think A- is fair.

-> B+/B
I have called for demoting greninja in the past and while it does have good traits, it simply cannot compete in the OU landscape. It's biggest claim to fame is battle bond, which while it can be devastating, it also can struggle to get that boost. This means that Greninja is very predictable when it is coming in, meaning you can play around it very easily and gain the advantage. It also mainly fits onto one style, that being rain, and while rain is a great playstyle rn, gren struggles to fit on those teams due to other mons that are more consistent competing for a slot. Not bad, but it isn't a B+ mon.

-> B+/B-
I'm sorry, but latias is just straight up cheese. Yes, if piloted well it can be decent, but it can struggle to get going and has to rely entirely on tera to get it there. It also is more of a one-time sweeper if you use the most dangerous set, which is the weakness policy set. The lefties set can come in multiple times, but is weaker to more things as it has to get multiple boosts to get going. Whenever I face a latias, it feels like it forces me to switch to a counter, and then does nothing. It is not consistent and is more firmly in the gimmick territory of iron crown, which is also B-.

-> B-/B
I've been playing around with zapdos a bit, and it is still great in the tier as an electric type that can threaten the most common ground type in the tier, great tusk. It does struggle more with mons such as raging bolt and iron boulder, it still does great against the general metagame. An option I have found is amazing on zap is t-wave, which while it may seem weird as static is right there, it is a safe option to throw out to cripple opponents. I could even see something like charge being explored to help with it's special side while boosting its electric moves forcing opponents to attack the physical side, which begs them to get a static proc (This most likely is a meme set, but it is a nice thought experiment.) Overall, zap is still great as ever and despite a few roadblocks, can still perform well on a team.

-> C+/B-
Not a high jump in viability, but cornerstone can be great if it has hazard control on its team. The ability to soft check most pokemon and ko them back is massive for a tier that is offensive as gen 9. It can also use this to get an opportunity to set up against opponents it can outspeed that may be able to take a hit and fire back. Rock+Grass coverage is insane and only steel types can resist both, which are either overwhelmed due to their secondary typings making them neutral to rock, or are one coverage move away from being destroyed. It is like a slight downgraded version of waterpon, which has had talks of being banned (disagree with that statement, but oh well), so I think that B- is fair.

-> UR/D
Registeel's niche is that of a bulky set-up sweeper with amnesia+id+bp. It can switch on quite a few mons such as serperior, clefable and others. Once it gets going, it is really hard to stop as only bulky resists such as gliscor or glowking or immunities such as ghold can stop it. With just a bit of team support to remove these checks, it can demolish a team. It is a bit of a gimmick, but it can work well.

 

[658Greninja]

Alright everyone. I got a whole cluster of noms coming up.

-> Lower
I don’t have enough game experience with or against Rain to determine how it is rn without Arch, but it certainly isn’t A+ material anymore. Especially with Ogerpon being one of the best mons in the tier atm.

-> S-
One of the best defensive staples in the tier. Though the standard Pivot set is the definitive Gking set, Assault Vest Glowking is criminally underrated despite losing the ability to pivot and spread status. This set was shown off in a very popular RMT featuring Sash Pult and Defensive G-Fire. It becomes much more consistent at checking Kyurem and other specially offensive behemoths. AV Gking is also annoying asf to switch into for many builds. Psyshock, Sludge Bomb, and Surf hits a multitude targets. Outside of HO and Weather Glowking has seen usage on every archetype as it covers several teambuilding holes.

-> B+
Enamorus feels a bit…underwhelming. It has a few other interesting sets like Superpower + Tera Ghost Blast and Sub-CM, but I don’t think they are enough for it to warrant this spot. Scarf sets have nice utility and cleanup potential, but as a speed control option, it’s underwhelming. Tera Normal Dnite, Weavile, Raging Bolt, Valiant, Roaring Moon, and Iron Moth all pick it off. Tera Stellar also does nothing to fix its weakness to SR or Gking’s Sludge Bomb. Being SR weak in this meta limits its switch ins and it often finds itself outclassed by other Fairies such as Prim, Valiant, and Hatt who provide more offensive and defensive utility. B+ is more appropriate since it still reflects its good utility and unique traits while acknowledging its faults.

-> A+
After Rain vanished, Sun became even better and during that time, new developments with Gouging Fire emerged. Speed Boost Proto CB sets turns it to a threatening wallbreaker under Sun and DD Breaking Swipe sets punish checks like Dozo and Gliscor. It is arguably suspect worthy due to how versatile it is with its moveset and different EV spreads. The drop it got last slate was unwarranted imo, as even during the Rain meta it was amazing.

-> A+
Wogerpon is one of the best wallbreakers in the tier rn. Near perfect coverage for the meta and a solid defensive profile to find switch in opportunities. The lack of Arch has allowed it to freely run Play Rough as coverage and its defensive utility remains value even without Rain. Bulkier sets can pivot into Ghold, Great Tusk, Primarina, and other threats. Welcome back Wogerpon.

-> A+
Another mon that hugely benefits from the Arch ban. Since Rain wasn’t really a good mu for it, Weavile now flourishes in this metagame. It’s hard asf to switch into between SD and AOA sets since Triple Axel gives it more than enough horsepower to afford running Low Kick for Gambit over SD. Ice Shard gives the bulkier builds it finds itself in an emergency option to cover Roaring Moon and the merit of offensive threats in OU. It is both a fantastic wallbreaker and speed control option. Even defensively it can pivot into Kyurem at least once or twice. I find it very splashable and flexible vs most matchups. A Top 10 mon imo.

-> A+
Zamazenta is almost an emergency check to half the tier. This month has been very experimental with developing Zama’s place in the tier. The standard Boots and Ironpress sets remain consistent, but we have seen the use of Mirror Herb to punish set up, Roar to phaze and spread hazard damage, even Ice Fang on Boots to smack Gliscor and Lando at the cost of being allergic to moths. This is a fine trade since the Zapdos machine broke. Zama checks some huge threats like Gambit, Wogerpon and Weavile while being an amazing wincon/speed control option itself.

-> A/A+
I find it weird that Valiant is this low. It shot up to 4th place in usage. Though usage =/= viability, it should not be hard to see why it is so high. An offensive sweeper that can switch between physical, special, and mixed while offering countless utility options. Encore, Taunt, Destiny Bond, even T-Wave. Forcing Raging Bolt and Kingambit into 50/50s is huge rn. It prevents possible snowball attempts in a hostile meta where they are more likely thanks to Tera. Any offensive team can slap an iVal onto a team and gain value off it.

-> B+
It has gotten clear that Meowscarada is not what it was initially hyped up to be early in January. Weavile outclasses it in every area minus U-Turn. Though pivoting is obviously very useful, teams are strict with slots. The builds it often finds itself in prefer to dedicate their last slots to speed control like Dragapult, Zama, or Weavile than a fast pivot. Band and Scarf sets are outclassed by Weavile as well. Flower Trick does give it a niche over Weavile since it hits checks like Garg and Primarina super effectively. It is still a good mon, but the direction the meta is heading for doesn’t do it favors.

-> B+
As much as I adore this skeleton croc, I’ve been saying that its current placement does not reflect its viability at all. Besides checking Zamazenta, which is something Balance teams do not struggle slotting in, what does it actually check well? Volc and Moth can Tera Ground past it, EQ 2HKOs on the switch and Dnite checks aren’t a rarity. Valiant 2HKOs with Tera Ghost Sball or removes its Boots with Knock. You need Tera for Moon and even that gets shutdown by Taunt. Skeledirge though is not a bad Pokemon at all. It still checks CM Hatt and some SP mons on Balance teams, so I can’t nom it any lower than B+.

-> A-
In contrast to Dirge, Dozo is deserving of a promotion. Without it, Stall simply would be unviable and outside of Stall, Dozo still covers bad mus for Balance even if it may be inconsistent at times. Curse Dozo is a solid wincon that could even reverse 6-0 whole teams unprepared for it, as seen in this game. Though it is vulnerable to hazards, Dozo still remains good at its main job. Being the biggest fish in the pond.

-> A-
Serperior being the single best Ogerpon check at least should give it a higher rank in the VR. Serp is also very annoying for Balance builds even those with Gking + Pult/Weavile. Glare can set up lategame cleans for it or its allies in the future, but the sole reason for the nom is cause Ogerpon is that much of a menace.

-> C+ We’re really going from the A ranks to the C ranks with this one. Anyways, Mandibuzz has alot of promising traits despite Defog being mid on it. It checks a plethora of physical threats like Gouging Fire, Great Tusk, Roaring Moon, Kingambit, and Wogerpon. Knock Off, Toxic, and U-Turn gives it utility to prevent itself from being labeled as passive. Being both a Ground immune and a Ghost resist is a huge deal, as it could provide extra role compression.

-> C+

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Def / 180 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Substitute
- Roar

Roarcune is a somewhat underrated pick. Its access to Roar, better physical bulk and speed makes it an alternative to Primarina on the right builds. Roar lets it force hazard damage and remain a player in the early-to-mid game. Scald is also a big thing to cripple checks with passive damage or halving their physical offenses. Hard to fit, but it can do work on the proper builds, namely those that force damage onto Wogerpon.

 

[RS25802580]

Alright everyone. I got a whole cluster of noms coming up.

View attachment 608322View attachment 608323-> Lower
I don’t have enough game experience with or against Rain to determine how it is rn without Arch, but it certainly isn’t A+ material anymore. Especially with Ogerpon being one of the best mons in the tier atm.

View attachment 608327-> S-
One of the best defensive staples in the tier. Though the standard Pivot set is the definitive Gking set, Assault Vest Glowking is criminally underrated despite losing the ability to pivot and spread status. This set was shown off in a very popular RMT featuring Sash Pult and Defensive G-Fire. It becomes much more consistent at checking Kyurem and other specially offensive behemoths. AV Gking is also annoying asf to switch into for many builds. Psyshock, Sludge Bomb, and Surf hits a multitude targets. Outside of HO and Weather Glowking has seen usage on every archetype as it covers several teambuilding holes.

View attachment 608336-> B+
Enamorus feels a bit…underwhelming. It has a few other interesting sets like Superpower + Tera Ghost Blast and Sub-CM, but I don’t think they are enough for it to warrant this spot. Scarf sets have nice utility and cleanup potential, but as a speed control option, it’s underwhelming. Tera Normal Dnite, Weavile, Raging Bolt, Valiant, Roaring Moon, and Iron Moth all pick it off. Tera Stellar also does nothing to fix its weakness to SR or Gking’s Sludge Bomb. Being SR weak in this meta limits its switch ins and it often finds itself outclassed by other Fairies such as Prim, Valiant, and Hatt who provide more offensive and defensive utility. B+ is more appropriate since it still reflects its good utility and unique traits while acknowledging its faults.

View attachment 608349-> A+
After Rain vanished, Sun became even better and during that time, new developments with Gouging Fire emerged. Speed Boost Proto CB sets turns it to a threatening wallbreaker under Sun and DD Breaking Swipe sets punish checks like Dozo and Gliscor. It is arguably suspect worthy due to how versatile it is with its moveset and different EV spreads. The drop it got last slate was unwarranted imo, as even during the Rain meta it was amazing.

View attachment 608350-> A+
Wogerpon is one of the best wallbreakers in the tier rn. Near perfect coverage for the meta and a solid defensive profile to find switch in opportunities. The lack of Arch has allowed it to freely run Play Rough as coverage and its defensive utility remains value even without Rain. Bulkier sets can pivot into Ghold, Great Tusk, Primarina, and other threats. Welcome back Wogerpon.

View attachment 608351-> A+
Another mon that hugely benefits from the Arch ban. Since Rain wasn’t really a good mu for it, Weavile now flourishes in this metagame. It’s hard asf to switch into between SD and AOA sets since Triple Axel gives it more than enough horsepower to afford running Low Kick for Gambit over SD. Ice Shard gives the bulkier builds it finds itself in an emergency option to cover Roaring Moon and the merit of offensive threats in OU. It is both a fantastic wallbreaker and speed control option. Even defensively it can pivot into Kyurem at least once or twice. I find it very splashable and flexible vs most matchups. A Top 10 mon imo.

View attachment 608361-> A+
Zamazenta is almost an emergency check to half the tier. This month has been very experimental with developing Zama’s place in the tier. The standard Boots and Ironpress sets remain consistent, but we have seen the use of Mirror Herb to punish set up, Roar to phaze and spread hazard damage, even Ice Fang on Boots to smack Gliscor and Lando at the cost of being allergic to moths. This is a fine trade since the Zapdos machine broke. Zama checks some huge threats like Gambit, Wogerpon and Weavile while being an amazing wincon/speed control option itself.

View attachment 608367-> A/A+
I find it weird that Valiant is this low. It shot up to 4th place in usage. Though usage =/= viability, it should not be hard to see why it is so high. An offensive sweeper that can switch between physical, special, and mixed while offering countless utility options. Encore, Taunt, Destiny Bond, even T-Wave. Forcing Raging Bolt and Kingambit into 50/50s is huge rn. It prevents possible snowball attempts in a hostile meta where they are more likely thanks to Tera. Any offensive team can slap an iVal onto a team and gain value off it.

View attachment 608371 -> B+
It has gotten clear that Meowscarada is not what it was initially hyped up to be early in January. Weavile outclasses it in every area minus U-Turn. Though pivoting is obviously very useful, teams are strict with slots. The builds it often finds itself in prefer to dedicate their last slots to speed control like Dragapult, Zama, or Weavile than a fast pivot. Band and Scarf sets are outclassed by Weavile as well. Flower Trick does give it a niche over Weavile since it hits checks like Garg and Primarina super effectively. It is still a good mon, but the direction the meta is heading for doesn’t do it favors.

View attachment 608373-> B+
As much as I adore this skeleton croc, I’ve been saying that its current placement does not reflect its viability at all. Besides checking Zamazenta, which is something Balance teams do not struggle slotting in, what does it actually check well? Volc and Moth can Tera Ground past it, EQ 2HKOs on the switch and Dnite checks aren’t a rarity. Valiant 2HKOs with Tera Ghost Sball or removes its Boots with Knock. You need Tera for Moon and even that gets shutdown by Taunt. Skeledirge though is not a bad Pokemon at all. It still checks CM Hatt and some SP mons on Balance teams, so I can’t nom it any lower than B+.

View attachment 608379-> A-
In contrast to Dirge, Dozo is deserving of a promotion. Without it, Stall simply would be unviable and outside of Stall, Dozo still covers bad mus for Balance even if it may be inconsistent at times. Curse Dozo is a solid wincon that could even reverse 6-0 whole teams unprepared for it, as seen in this game. Though it is vulnerable to hazards, Dozo still remains good at its main job. Being the biggest fish in the pond.

View attachment 608382-> A-
Serperior being the single best Ogerpon check at least should give it a higher rank in the VR. Serp is also very annoying for Balance builds even those with Gking + Pult/Weavile. Glare can set up lategame cleans for it or its allies in the future, but the sole reason for the nom is cause Ogerpon is that much of a menace.

View attachment 608387-> C+ We’re really going from the A ranks to the C ranks with this one. Anyways, Mandibuzz has alot of promising traits despite Defog being mid on it. It checks a plethora of physical threats like Gouging Fire, Great Tusk, Roaring Moon, Kingambit, and Wogerpon. Knock Off, Toxic, and U-Turn gives it utility to prevent itself from being labeled as passive. Being both a Ground immune and a Ghost resist is a huge deal, as it could provide extra role compression.

View attachment 608388-> C+

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Def / 180 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Substitute
- Roar

Roarcune is a somewhat underrated pick. Its access to Roar, better physical bulk and speed makes it an alternative to Primarina on the right builds. Roar lets it force hazard damage and remain a player in the early-to-mid game. Scald is also a big thing to cripple checks with passive damage or halving their physical offenses. Hard to fit, but it can do work on the proper builds, namely those that force damage onto Wogerpon.

Excellent nominations… I pretty much agree with all of these. But I do think Meowscarada merits staying put rather than dropping. It’s not really outclassed by Weavile since they fulfill different roles. Weavile is a fast sweeper/breaker while Meow is a fast pivot. The value of STAB U turn cannot really be understated since it allows Meow to get off a knock and then pivot out.

Furthermore Flower Trick allows Meow to brute force Dondozo, which has become a stall staple, as well as patch up a weakness to Garg that many slower/balance team structures suffer from.

 

[Duck Chris]

Couple noms I haven't heard yet:

A+ -> A
Gliscor is getting pretty pressured right now, with a falling usage rate and a sub 40% win rate in SPL. With Landorus being able to hold helmet and pressure Zamazenta a bit better with some special offense chip, there is a fair amount of competition for the ground type slot.
A -> A-
Deoxys isn't bad really, but it does really constrain team building due to its absolute lack of defensive utility. It only really fits on HO and it's not even that prevalent on that style, with several other choices for all out attackers like Valiant, revenge killers like Dragonite and Enamorus, and hazard leads like Glimmora and Samurott-h.

A- -> A
Dragonite is really good guys. Recent tournament play has emphasized how versatile it is, with defensive sets including Roost, Dragon Tail, Encore, and all sorts of coverage moves. The versatility allows him to fit on a ton of team structures from fat to offense and even stall.

Agree: Zamazanta, Valiant, Ogerpon-W up
Disagree: Gouging Fire, Serperior up; Enamorus down

 

[ant4456]

I

As much as I adore this skeleton croc, I’ve been saying that its current placement does not reflect its viability at all. Besides checking Zamazenta, which is something Balance teams do not struggle slotting in, what does it actually check well? Volc and Moth can Tera Ground past it, EQ 2HKOs on the switch and Dnite checks aren’t a rarity. Valiant 2HKOs with Tera Ghost Sball or removes its Boots with Knock. You need Tera for Moon and even that gets shutdown by Taunt. Skeledirge though is not a bad Pokemon at all. It still checks CM Hatt and some SP mons on Balance teams, so I can’t nom it any lower than B+.

I veery, very much do not agree with this. One thing in particular is that you seem to be operating on the idea of Skeledirge being there primarily to check Special Attackers, and in my opinion that is actually the lesser Skeledirge set right now.

The following set (which I didn't make) can check basically every physical Attacker in the tier, and when you put it next to Clodsire you have a very good Balance core. It is not HDB because you are intending to use it as a defensive Fairy-Type, so it is somewhat of a Tera hog at times, but it's very much worth it in such a volatile metagame:

252+ Atk Gouging Fire Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 236+ Def Tera Fairy Skeledirge: 144-171 (35 - 41.6%) -- 78.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Iron Boulder Mighty Cleave vs. 248 HP / 236+ Def Tera Fairy Skeledirge: 108-127 (26.2 - 30.9%) -- 7.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Kingambit Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 236+ Def Tera Fairy Skeledirge: 218-258 (53 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Power Whip vs. 248 HP / 236+ Def Tera Fairy Skeledirge: 162-192 (39.4 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Weavile Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 248 HP / 236+ Def Tera Fairy Skeledirge: 137-164 (33.3 - 39.9%) -- approx. 21.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

4 Atk Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 248 HP / 236+ Def Tera Fairy Skeledirge: 120-142 (29.1 - 34.5%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Protosynthesis Tera Flying Roaring Moon Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 248 HP / 236+ Def Tera Fairy Skeledirge: 178-211 (43.3 - 51.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

This wall of calcs is all the same Skeledirge set, so this isn't just several sets being good at checking different things. This same PhysDef Skeledirge set checks a majority of the physical sweepers in the tier, and can also be a semi-wincon with Torch Scorch boosts giving it more strength the longer it takes for the opponent to force it out. This is fairly unique. Dondozo works great on Stall, but on Balance I find that it can get Knocked and just be forced to give up tons of free turns with Rest, but a set like this means that a lot of the tier can be handled.

Protosynthesis Attack can help with some of these to break Dirge, but as long as you can have speed control a single time, which every good Balance team should, that is not as much of a problem. And Dirge can run things like Wisp to attempt to stop that from being an issue anyways for Pokemon like Moon. Also pairing Hazard control, but I do not think that is a major issue with the set especially when you Tera.

 

[veti]

-> B / B-

Midkrai. I've been starting to forget this mon even exists honestly, its just outclassed by Roaring Moon, Weavile and Kingambit. Dark Pulse is a very weak mono stab, not even OHKOing Iron Boulder without Tera dark unless you're Life Orb or Specs. 125 Speed isn't bad by any means, however Darkrai still struggles against priority and booster energy Pokemon, as well as Dragapult and Zamazenta.

mons that can outspeed

Outspeed naturally:
Booster Energy Speed:
Scarfers (ass but are used for some reason):
Strong Priority:
Speed Tie:

In addition to being weaker, Dark Pulse also does not come with the free progress of Knock Off meaning that Darkrai counters lose absolutely nothing from switching in, while the mons with Knock Off punish attempts to counter them to assist both the knocker and its teammates in breaking that mon. Knock is also defensive, being able to remove damage boosting items or boots to limit the potential of your opponents offensive threats, another thing Darkrai lacks. Reliance on Focus Blast as coverage is pretty bad, alongside having to choose between Sludge Bomb, Psyshock, or Ice Beam as the last move (plotless darkrai is even worse than plot darkrai dont ever use). Without Sludge Bomb you're walled by fairies and without Ice Beam or Psyshock mons like Clod eternally sit on it. Without Life Orb, Darkrai struggles to deal meaningful damage but with life orb its a life orb mon without boots in a Gholdengo metagame.

 

[malomyotismon]

-> B / B-

Midkrai. I've been starting to forget this mon even exists honestly, its just outclassed by Roaring Moon, Weavile and Kingambit. Dark Pulse is a very weak mono stab, not even OHKOing Iron Boulder without Tera dark unless you're Life Orb or Specs. 125 Speed isn't bad by any means, however Darkrai still struggles against priority and booster energy Pokemon, as well as Dragapult and Zamazenta.

mons that can outspeed

Outspeed naturally:
Booster Energy Speed:
Scarfers (ass but are used for some reason):
Strong Priority:
Speed Tie:

In addition to being weaker, Dark Pulse also does not come with the free progress of Knock Off meaning that Darkrai counters lose absolutely nothing from switching in, while the mons with Knock Off punish attempts to counter them to assist both the knocker and its teammates in breaking that mon. Knock is also defensive, being able to remove damage boosting items or boots to limit the potential of your opponents offensive threats, another thing Darkrai lacks. Reliance on Focus Blast as coverage is pretty bad, alongside having to choose between Sludge Bomb, Psyshock, or Ice Beam as the last move (plotless darkrai is even worse than plot darkrai dont ever use). Without Sludge Bomb you're walled by fairies and without Ice Beam or Psyshock mons like Clod eternally sit on it. Without Life Orb, Darkrai struggles to deal meaningful damage but with life orb its a life orb mon without boots in a Gholdengo metagame.

I would say it is hard to be outclassed by them considering they are all physical dark attackers and darkrai is specially inclined through lol

 

[Baloor]

Darkrai is fine in B+, its not very popular on ladder but in tour games (SPL and OST) it has been putting in adequate enough work comparable to other B+ outside of one or two. Its noticeably better than every in B and B- (ursaluna is up for debate and prob should be B+ imo) and dropping it would be really out of place.

Its issue is that its not good a ladder pick, mostly because its really good at sniping fat spammers and ladder is full of HO, but it has done well enough to a B+ standards elsewhere to maintain its rank.

 

[MegaScizor32]

I’d like to nominate from C to C+/B-

It holds the distinction of being the strongest Ground type Special Attacker with 121 SpAtk. The next strongest would be Landorus-T with a 105 SpAtk, which really magnifies the scarcity of ground special attackers in the tier.

Sandy Shocks also has access to both Spikes and Stealth Rocks which allows it to be more versatile. Shocks has the second highest SpAtk for a hazard setter in all of OU behind only . It can be the hazard setter on Hyper Offense, Offense or even Balance.

I’ve been using speed to apply pressure on many mons in the tier. I’ve also seen Boots and Assault Vest Shocks as well. No mon in the tier likes switching into Ground, Electric, and Ice which is virtually perfect coverage.

Overall I think this mon is underrated and definitely has viability in OU.

 

[RS25802580]

I
I veery, very much do not agree with this. One thing in particular is that you seem to be operating on the idea of Skeledirge being there primarily to check Special Attackers, and in my opinion that is actually the lesser Skeledirge set right now.

The following set (which I didn't make) can check basically every physical Attacker in the tier, and when you put it next to Clodsire you have a very good Balance core. It is not HDB because you are intending to use it as a defensive Fairy-Type, so it is somewhat of a Tera hog at times, but it's very much worth it in such a volatile metagame:

252+ Atk Gouging Fire Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 236+ Def Tera Fairy Skeledirge: 144-171 (35 - 41.6%) -- 78.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Iron Boulder Mighty Cleave vs. 248 HP / 236+ Def Tera Fairy Skeledirge: 108-127 (26.2 - 30.9%) -- 7.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Kingambit Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 236+ Def Tera Fairy Skeledirge: 218-258 (53 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Power Whip vs. 248 HP / 236+ Def Tera Fairy Skeledirge: 162-192 (39.4 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Weavile Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 248 HP / 236+ Def Tera Fairy Skeledirge: 137-164 (33.3 - 39.9%) -- approx. 21.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

4 Atk Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 248 HP / 236+ Def Tera Fairy Skeledirge: 120-142 (29.1 - 34.5%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Protosynthesis Tera Flying Roaring Moon Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 248 HP / 236+ Def Tera Fairy Skeledirge: 178-211 (43.3 - 51.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

This wall of calcs is all the same Skeledirge set, so this isn't just several sets being good at checking different things. This same PhysDef Skeledirge set checks a majority of the physical sweepers in the tier, and can also be a semi-wincon with Torch Scorch boosts giving it more strength the longer it takes for the opponent to force it out. This is fairly unique. Dondozo works great on Stall, but on Balance I find that it can get Knocked and just be forced to give up tons of free turns with Rest, but a set like this means that a lot of the tier can be handled.

Protosynthesis Attack can help with some of these to break Dirge, but as long as you can have speed control a single time, which every good Balance team should, that is not as much of a problem. And Dirge can run things like Wisp to attempt to stop that from being an issue anyways for Pokemon like Moon. Also pairing Hazard control, but I do not think that is a major issue with the set especially when you Tera.

I don’t really agree with this. The majority of physical attackers you’ve listed are checked better by Dozo than Tera Fairy Dirge. Having to burn a Tera a priori is a sizeable opportunity cost for a wall. Most balance teams would rather just run Boots Dozo which doesn’t have to tera.

You mention that Dozo doesn’t like hazard chip, but how does the (non Boots) Dirge set you mention get affected by hazards? Hazards turns many of the 3HKOs you listed into 2HKOs, which pretty much defeats the purpose of using Dirge over Dozo in the first place.

It’s true that Dirge has some good matchups in the tier, such as consistently beating sub Serp and breaking swipes Gouging Fire. For these reasons I don’t mind it staying put on the VR. But using it as a dedicated physical wall is, IMO, a costly fallacy.

 

[waffle04]

Since most noms I would make have been thrown out there already, I've got a few that seem to be overlooked.

A+ -> A

It may seem wild to suggest that a mon that's on the survey and is a potential suspect should drop but hear me out. Yes, it hits hard and can tear through a weakened team or weaken fat mons to allow another mon to clean up late game but, it's reliance on booster energy for its damage output means that once it's out you're committed to clicking buttons with it because it's not particularly useful otherwise. It also has a really hard time getting in because any chip means that it's getting cooked by some form of priority thanks to being fairly frail physically. It's winrate in spl has also been mostly subpar thanks to the meta developing and shifting towards balance. Moon is always at its best when HO is good because those structures are made of paper but, when structures with actual bulk start popping up, it starts falling off. Non-taunt sets get whirlwinded out, taunt sets get chipped down by corv, skarm, dozo or whatever is in front of it enough to get ko'd by priority. It's imo top 3 most overrated things in OU rn along with ghold and sun.

A- -> A

With all of these strong set-up mons running around, multiscale + e-speed finds so much value in being the definitive going first move. EQ + e-speed shuts down things like bolt, gouging and moon which is absolutely huge and it's movepool is so vast that we're seeing a huge variety of sets not too dissimilar to pult in dlc1 or lando-t in gen 7. DD+roost, DD+3a, encore+DD, fat dnite w/ encore, boltbeam fatnite, phazenite w/ dtail, band are all sets it can run viablely thanks to being naturally bulky, strong and having a rainbow colored movepool. It's also the best mon into non-pr wogre rn and teching tera fairy lets you beat breaking swipe gouging which has been a general pita for everyone.

A- -> A

This might be a little early but, we're seeing a garg resurgence in spl and it tends to do great vs traditional offense and balance by constantly forcing chip while leveraging its stupid high bulk to force switch-outs on more passive mons. Covert Cloak usage is also pretty much zero so salt cure always finds a way to rack up passive damage. Curse garg is also very scary as it becomes borderline impossible to break and we've even seen curse sets with only salt cure due to the lack of covert cloak usage rack up serious damage over the course of a game.

B+ -> A-

Why is court change this low? The only mon in B+ rn that's arguably better is dozo but that should be in A/A- anyways. Wisp is always scary except for gouging and gliscor but, gliscor gets smacked by blaze boosted pyro balls and you just u-turn on gouging anyways. Protean sets make switching around a pita with hjk and gunk shot popping up occasionally and sucker punch is a huge boon as no one expects it so it ends up as a reliable way to rk weakened threats. Court change is also arguably the best removal right now because it flips the hazard situation creating pressure while alleviating pressure on your side. Spin and defog gives your opponent a free turn and cc tends to force your opponent into a spinner or defogger which lets you u-turn safely into something like kyurem to punch holes. With no one running defog corv and tusk not being as popular with lando and glisc stealing some usage as the glue ground, cind becomes the default hazard control option on a lot of offense and balance builds.

 

[Moyashi]

-> A
To be clear I find this mon to be a broken or borderline broken mon and don't think it's a good presence for the tier longterm given what it does for HO and the way it can centralize building which I find undesirable and polarizing sometimes, but it is a fact that the current meta is not as HO friendly which does knock Moon down a little. It's still great, and I think very potent on sun with band knocks not really having a lot of switchins, but this feels more accurate atm.

-> A
It's undeniable that Garg has resurged and become a sizable presence in the meta once again. Between near nonexistant cloak usage, and the structure of the tier, it's really efficient at pushing immense progress with Salt Cure, and the types of structures running around are quite prone to it. Curse I think is the better of the boosting sets, given they're more flexible in what moves to run beyond Salt Cure and Recover. And like was stated above me, mono attacking sets with just Salt Cure and Curse are really quite good and can be rather flexible in how to use it during a game, and have great staying power. Very nice set with hazards especially.

-> A+
Speaking of comebacks, this is probably the best Lando has been all gen right now, and it's showing with its high performance in SPL, not to mention its great usage on ladder. A very effective pivot that provides great utility for teams, and with it leaning into sets using special attacks to beat would be checks, showing it too can reinvent and adapt to remain relevant. Very good pokemon rn.

-> A+
Probably the most broken mon after Gouging Fire rn. Highly versatile and splashable pokemon that is very difficult to truly account for defensively speaking. While it has more relevant counterplay offensively, I think this mon is a pretty warping presence and it's very strong, more in line with A+.

 

[Magcargo]

-> A
IMO Gholdengo does not have much room to breath in this new meta, with major threats to it around every corner. Fast Lando-T, Ting-Lu, Great Tusk, Kingambit, Tera Water Garganacl, Gouging Fire, Volcarona, and Dragapult are all very common, and typically paired together, making it hard for Gholdengo to get anything done unless it Teras. I have also found fitting it onto a team to be harder in this metagame, as other similar Pokemon offer more utility. GKing is a better blanket special wall check, Gambit offers more consistent utility with its powerful endgame utiltiy and Sucker Punch, Dragapult offers more important speed control + wider coverage and pivoting, and even the metal birds feel easier to slot onto a team despite being exploitable because of their crucial defensive utility vs the likes of Woger, Gambit, Gliscor, etc. These pokemon all synergize well with each other and compete with Gholdengo, making it more difficult to include on a team in recent times imo.