Flutter mane, eleki, mecha delibird and magearna will blot out the sun.
I'm thankful for
, 
, and 
. It's extremely refreshing to have Unaware mons that have (by modern standards) actual bulk to them. We've been stuck with 
and 
for a long time, both of which, while fine, often fail to check setup sweepers due to simply lacking defense stats even after canceling the boosts. It feels like the nerf to recovery move PP and move distribution has enabled these mons to genuinely be solid glue mons that aren't as oppressive and undying as many past gen defensive staples (looks at 
). It's great that balance now has more access to the ability too, as previously Clefable was the only viable Unaware user outside of stall, and Clefable rarely even wanted to run it over Magic Guard.I’m thankful for this being much more fun of a gen than gen 8, even with all the unbalanced bullshit currently here. It’ll probably also be really fun once we get that broken bullshit out the way too.
yeah, the only real pro i can see to dropping darkrai is that people would finally stop complaining about it never being tested because they would realize "holy shit, this is the most bullshit thing i've ever seen" in approximately twenty seconds
Hard disagree with you there, I had way more fun playing crown tundra OU than this meta
the beginning of crown tundra where we had like 10 blatant ubers running around was just foreshadowing for the entirety of sv. the ending of it is foreshadowing for gen 10 where game freak looks at the competitive community for the first time, realizes how bad it fucked up, and overcorrects like hell because they're fundamentally incapable of making a correct decision, turning gen 10 into the stallfest people thought gen 8 was
what do you suggest we do, then? people keep complaining about the number of bans without offering some sort of alternative solution besides banning tera (which isn't a useful addition to the discussion right now because we still have no idea how type 19 will change the game) or just not banning broken things and hoping the meta somehow works itself out (which is actually the opposite of a solution). do you have another idea that could work? because i'm honestly open to just about anything at this point. if you can drag us out of this hell in a way that doesn't involve more bans, a tera ban, or just letting things collapse in on themselves, i am all ears. i am literally all ears. i've physically turned my entire body into ears because i'm that desperate for a way out of this mess. do you know how difficult it is to type when you have ears instead of fingers? i might be losing my mind
I personally am just sick of opening up OU every other week and seeing a new suspect test on some trash Mon with 10% usage, but you all leave Gambit, Gold, Tusk and the gang in this garbage tier with some of the highest usage rates we've ever seen. And anytime someone uses a pokemon that can handle these top three they get banned. Honestly I don't know why y'all are pretending like you have any intention on keeping Tera in the game, anybody with 2 eyes and a braincell can put together that Terastallization is going to be one of the first things on the ban list the second DLC 2 drops. One genuine piece of advice I can give is (as much as nobody wants to do it) create a new tier between OU and Ubers. Pokemon that are too "broken" for OU but have no place in an Ubers metagame.
Yep, this is definitely the most fun I've had in a generation since gen 5. Despite Tera being quite controversial, reading telegraphed Teras or wielding the power of nukes such as Tera Dragon Baxcalibur and Tera Grass Rillaboom has been extremely fun, and gives me the same dopamine feeling that spamming Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump in rain did all those years ago. Playing around powerful Tera threats with my own Tera threats has been a highlight as well. I've also been victim to some heat strategies like Tera Bug Ceruledge, Tera Ghost Quaquaval, etc. which still managed to leave lasting impression.
Fair enough, those are super centralizing mons that the metagame Maypoles around, although I would say other bans have been more or just as contentious. We have some common grou-
Never mind.
Not OU's Council nor players field to talk about. You can give the idea here, as many people before you have been saying for years past, with much more reason this gen, but it's no one's field to build this hypothetical new tier.
This is a possibility that many people before have also proposed, but it faces a number of problems. First, it's just wishful thinking at worst. You have no data or prove that the meta would "stabilize" in any direction, way or form if we were to wait, say, 3 months per ban. At the end of it, we may be just 3 months older with the meta over-centralized over the same threats, while many other threats lurk in their shadow. So, when we finally ban these "first broken wave", a "second broken wave" arises that causes the same problems, but we'd have to wait another 3 months to "wait for stability".
This was discussed during the Tera Suspect, as Tera Team Preview. It was one of the options that was voted upon within "Tera Restrictions" segment of the voting, and simply lost in favor of "No Restrictions". It's still an option that is open and may be revisited on the future suspect after DLC2, but it's nothing new. I agree that it would be the best restriction on Tera assuming any is taken, but again, that's a discussion that we'll be "forced" to have when the new suspect happens, and may as well leave it for then.
WE make the banlist, my guy. WE AS A COMMUNITY. Through "PUBLIC" votings. You need to get reqs, and not everyone can get them (like myself, as I failed to get them during the first suspect), but this is not some shady business done behind black curtains while we await he council's omnipotent word. And the same can be applied to all the bans thus far, which also ties to the other problem with "giving the meta time to stabilize": PEOPLE MAJORITARILY DON'T WANT TO DO THAT. As Surveys, Votings and discussions have come to prove time and time again.
Usage has zero influence on something being banned or banworthy. Tusk sees so much usage because it is tremendous role compression which greatly eases teambuilding. Granted a portion of its usage is due to the limited options for hazard removal, but it's a stellar pokemon anyways.
If there was no intention of keeping Tera around, then the council wouldn't wait for dlc2, let alone home, and have just banned it outright without even consulting the community. But they did. Community voted to have it around for now.
This does nothing for this tier. Mons end up useless in the next tier up after being banned from their prior tier. It happens. It sucks. Oh well. OU is the standard of play and Ubers is the tier above that also functions as a banlist for OU.
If broken pokemon are in a tier, it's not going to stabilize. The amount of bans is irrelevant, but it's also the way it is because of the powercreep this gen with multiple overpowered pokemon, lacking tools to deal with them. You can go ahead and look through the list of OU to Uber mons and their presence wouldn't allow the tier to stabilize.
Open team sheet itself is stupid and takes certain elements of skill out of the game. Tera preview doesn't solve the major issues with the mechanic and just adds in new ones.
Dragapult?
Alright, well if all my ideas are trash than what do you suggest? Just ban the entire pokédex until OU looks like LC? Because that's what it's starting to look like. I genuinely want to know (from anyone) what is the long term plan for OU, if there even is one?
Let's run down the suspect test list, shall we?
32.76% usage on ladder prior to its first suspect, being the third-most used mon in SV OU at the time, as well as being an incredibly one-dimensional wallbreaker that could essentially OHKO or 2HKO the entire tier.
While it's usage was lower at 15%, it was a pokemon that was divisive on entry and had a lot of pro-ban arguments at the beginning of its suspect test before public opinion generally mellowed on it, and thus it avoided the ban hammer.
Similarly controversial, many people were arguing that it was more broken than Volcarona at the time and that it should have gotten QBed, and followed a similar history in the suspect thread to Walking Wake, except for the fact that public opinion has NOT mellowed on this thing and people are still arguing that it should be removed from the tier.
I don't think I need to say anything here.
The second highest (if i'm not mistaken) ban percentage of any suspect test in Smogon's history, that already had the 5th highest usage in the tier at 22%. It would be absurd if this DIDN'T get subjected to at least a suspect.
20.47% usage in the first half of the month while it was legal with absurd breaking power and newfound access to the most reliable, progress-forcing dark move in the game and acrobooster. If this wasn't banned it easily could have cracked top 3.
Not only did it have 20% usage prior to its ban, it was prominent in high ladder, incredibly viable with diverse set variety, and the primary thing people were citing was a tour match of gliscor v. gliscor gameplay to explain why it was unhealthy.Probably keep banning overpowered stuff that forces the metagame to overcompensate for it. Gen 9's level of powercreep is arguably worse than Gen 5's, so this is just the reality of how tiering is gonna work here. What exactly do you propose we "adapt" to? Chi-Yu? Annihilape? Palafin? Bloodmoon? I can't imagine how a metagame where we drag our feet and only have half of these bans out and it's even more of a nightmare hellscape centralized entirely around them is better and not worse.
as others have already explained, usage does not mean broken and everything we've kicked out has had plenty of usage, although you do have somewhat of a point with us leaving gambit and ghold alone because they are the roadrunner to this community's wile e coyote. tusk has high usage not because of brokenness but because it's a spinner with good matchups against the meta-warpingest mons in the tier. as for your other point, the big 3 are not somehow dictating what else gets banned, as evidenced by the fact that not everything that's been banned matches up well into them—hell, flutter mane loses to gambit because mane has 55/55 physical "bulk" and gambit has unreasonably strong physical priority
this depends entirely on what type 19 does. if it's something that's niche or not worth using and tera as a concept doesn't change much, the tera suspect will wait until the meta is well and truly balanced. if it's something game-changing, it might happen sooner, but not immediately. if it's something completely bonkers-ass cuckoo bananas that unambiguously breaks tera, we might even skip the suspect altogether
the community at large is responsible for this, not the council. the council has even asked the community whether we want them to speed up or slow down and we told them to stay the course. the rate of bans might not be what you want, but it's what the community wants. also, which of these bans were unjustified? point out any suspect ban that you think was out of line and i can direct you to an entire thread filled with reasons it wasn't; quickbans should be self-evident
tera preview might work, i'm still a believer in it, but i don't think it would have affected any of the bans thus far, nor any potential ones i can see in the future. the guessing game is more of a problem with the mechanic itself than with the mons using it. fully open team sheets is a bad idea. evidence: vgc uses open team sheets
unfortunately, all of your suggestions have been brought up before and the general consensus is that none of them would accomplish the balance that we're trying to achieve here. i suppose we'll stick to bans unless something better comes along
I understand Gambit and Ghold, but TUSK? This ain't it chief, high usage rates do not mean an overpowered threat, otherwise Lando-T would've been banned in gens 5-8. Others have already gone into detail about this so I'm not gonna.
I agree, even though testing Ghold leaves us with about less than 2 weeks before DLC2, Ghold has been proven to be a hazard-removal choking, balance wrecking, insanely good monster that has been here for too long. While changes in DLC2 could balance Ghold, they also could not, its hard to say.
I honestly whole heartedly agree. If a metagame without ghold is not any better i.e., nothing gets better, than we learn from it. If the metagame does become better, which it most likely will, people can't deny that gholdengo wasn't a negative influence.
A week isn't enough time. Quickbanning dengo should be the solution that's opted for if we want to see a dengo-less metagame.
