Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]

[658Greninja]

If you are having trouble sleeping at night, watch the OU discussion forums discuss sleep for 20 pages.

For one minute I wanna stray away from sleep and talk about a mon lost to the sands of time in SV OU. Volcarona’s ancient cousin Slither Wing.

Slither Wing @ Choice Band
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- First Impression
- Close Combat
- Flare Blitz
- U-turn​

Section I: Competitive History
In the very early stages of SV OU, there was mild interest in Slither Wing. It sported 135 Attack and STAB First Impression which was important in the newly hyper aggressive metagame. It sported coverage in Earthquake and Flare Blitz to hit Toxapex and Gholdengo. Slither Wing also had Morning Sun and support options like Will-O-Wisp, U-Turn, Stun Spore, and Whirlwind, while resisting Great Tusk’s dual STABs. This led to players experimenting with more bulky variants of it. The playerbase’s interest in Slither Wing didn’t last unfortunately. Great Tusk outclassed it offensively and defensively due to its better physical bulk and Rapid Spin, which was mandatory during this metagame. It also failed to fit everything in its impressive movepool and First Impression just wasn’t enough to justify using the Moth, only accompanying a small niche in pre-Home OU. It dropped to UU and had an impressive run down there, but after the power level rose in Home and DLC1, it dropped to RU.

In DLC2, there might be hope for Slither Wing. Sun is more popular on ladder and tournaments than ever due to the additions of Gouging Fire and Raging Bolt. However Sun can find itself in troublesome matchups. Opposing Raging Bolt can be difficult to check or revenge kill, and it could bypass through Great Tusk with Tera Fairy. Iron Boulder could present problems since without H-Lilligant or Venusaur, they could struggle to rkill it once it hits the field, especially if it incorporates Tera for Raging Bolt or Kingambit. Playing around opposing weather can be tricky. Tyranitar can come in on Torkoal or Raging Bolt and either get up Rocks or click Knock Off. Resetting the weather vs Rain is a risk since Archaludon and Barraskewda threaten Torkoal with huge damage or a KO. Not to mention Walking Wake and Raging Bolt could lose the 1v1 to AV Archaludon. Sash Darkrai leads could threaten huge damage on Torkoal or put it to sleep and in the worst case scenario, could pick up multiple kills on against Sun. Sun teams also often lack three things, a strong defensive backbone, a slow pivot, and a special wall.

Section II: Slither Wing’s Role in Sun

Slither Wing sporting these unique qualities.

+ Offensive check to Great Tusk

+ Strong 90 BP Priority

+ Resistances to Dark, Ground, Grass, and Fighting

+ Flare Blitz under Sun (we’ll get to this)

+ Stronger Close Combats than Valiant, Zamazenta, and Tusk

+ STAB U-Turn

+ Decent special bulk (85hp/105spd)

+ Neutrality to Steath Rocks

+ Utility options in Will-O-Wisp, Stun Spore, Whirlwind, U-Turn, and Morning Sun

+ Protosynthesis

Slither Wing can fill a unique role as a wallbreaker with incredibly strong priority to help Sun play around offensive threats like Kingambit, Walking Wake, Barraskewda, Iron Boulder, Raging Bolt, Darkrai, Venusaur, H-Lilligant, and Barraskewda. Even vs resisted targets, Choice Band First Impression can take out weakened targets with ease.

First Impressions

252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing First Impression vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Kingambit: 277-327 (69.2 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing First Impression vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kingambit: 276-325 (80.9 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 205-242 (64.6 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing First Impression vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kyurem: 352-415 (90 - 106.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing First Impression vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gouging Fire: 137-162 (39 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing First Impression vs. 64 HP / 28 Def Raging Bolt: 339-400 (83.2 - 98.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Flying Roaring Moon: 214-252 (60.9 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 229-270 (73.6 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO



252+ Atk Choice Band Slither Wing First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Ground Volcarona: 354-417 (113.8 - 134%) -- guaranteed OHKO (outside of Sun)



252+ Atk Choice Band Slither Wing First Impression vs. 252 HP / 104 Def Tera Ground Volcarona: 306-361 (81.8 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (outside of Sun)



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing First Impression vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Walking Wake: 349-412 (102 - 120.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO



252+ Atk Choice Band Slither Wing First Impression vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Barraskewda: 376-444 (142.4 - 168.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO (in Rain)



252+ Atk Choice Band Slither Wing First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 542-642 (192.8 - 228.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO (outside of Sun)



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Poison Darkrai: 177-208 (62.9 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO



252+ Atk Choice Band Slither Wing First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Water Greninja: 345-406 (121 - 142.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO (outside of Sun)



252+ Atk Choice Band Slither Wing First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 188-222 (52 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (outside of Sun)



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing First Impression vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Venusaur: 376-444 (124.9 - 147.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lilligant-Hisui: 411-484 (146.2 - 172.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Bug/Fighting with it’s notable resistances, plus its decent special bulk gives it opportunities to come in, with the added benefit of checking Great Tusk and Darkrai. Slither Wing is tanky enough to eat a Draco from Modest Archaludon. It also has a solid matchup into the popular Meowscarada who is ironically troublesome for Sun because it can be lead with to outspeed and threatens everything if Sun isn’t up and could pivot into Glowking on Torkoal to reset the weather.

Defensive Calcs

252 Atk Iron Treads Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Slither Wing: 89-105 (28.6 - 33.7%) -- 0.9% chance to 3HKO



252 Atk Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Slither Wing: 119-141 (38.2 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO



0 Atk Ting-Lu Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Slither Wing: 71-84 (22.8 - 27%) -- 37.7% chance to 4HKO



252 Atk Meowscarada Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Slither Wing: 85-101 (27.3 - 32.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO



252 Atk Protean Meowscarada Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Slither Wing: 210-252 (67.5 - 81%) -- approx. 2HKO



252 Atk Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Slither Wing: 112-132 (36 - 42.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO



252 Atk Zamazenta Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Slither Wing: 125-148 (40.1 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO



252 SpA Darkrai Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Slither Wing: 97-115 (31.1 - 36.9%) -- 77.1% chance to 3HKO



+2 252 SpA Darkrai Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Slither Wing: 193-228 (62 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO



252 Atk Iron Boulder Mighty Cleave vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Slither Wing: 178-210 (57.2 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO



252+ SpA Archaludon Electro Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Slither Wing: 146-172 (46.9 - 55.3%) -- 71.1% chance to 2HKO



252+ SpA Archaludon Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Slither Wing: 219-258 (70.4 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Slither Wing is also stupidly strong, especially under Sun. You 2HKO defensive Tusk with Close Combat even outside of Sun and have a high roll to OHKO offensive variants, which are more common due to Gliscor and Skarmory’s presence. Taking out Tusk means Raging Bolt has the freedom to click Thunderclap and DD Gouging Fire has more opportunities to sweep. Slither Wing has other crazy calcs like

Offensive Calcs

252+ Atk Choice Band Slither Wing Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 196+ Def Gholdengo: 346-408 (91.5 - 107.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO (outside of Sun)



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Tera Fire Slither Wing Flare Blitz vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Gliscor in Sun: 399-469 (113.3 - 133.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing Close Combat vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Tera Water Gliscor: 265-313 (75.2 - 88.9%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Great Tusk: 340-402 (91.6 - 108.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO



252+ Atk Choice Band Slither Wing Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Great Tusk: 202-238 (46.5 - 54.8%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (outside of Sun)



252+ Atk Choice Band Slither Wing Close Combat vs. 64 HP / 28 Def Raging Bolt: 348-409 (85.5 - 100.4%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (outside of Sun)



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Hatterene in Sun: 334-394 (105 - 123.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Tera Water Hatterene: 334-394 (105 - 123.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO



252+ Atk Choice Band Slither Wing Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pelipper: 119-141 (36.8 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (in Rain)



252+ Atk Choice Band Slither Wing Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Skarmory: 201-237 (60.1 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (outside of Sun)



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 189-223 (47.9 - 56.5%) -- 35.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable in Sun: 379-447 (96.1 - 113.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO



252+ Atk Choice Band Slither Wing Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 217-256 (43 - 50.7%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO (outside of Sun, yes this is real)



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 282-333 (55.9 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO



-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-Therian in Sun: 222-262 (58.1 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Tera Fire Slither Wing Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skeledirge in Sun: 233-274 (56.5 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Tera Fire Slither Wing Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Torkoal in Sun: 183-216 (53.3 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Torkoal: 246-289 (71.7 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Tera Fire Slither Wing Flare Blitz vs. 144 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite in Sun: 169-199 (47 - 55.4%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Tera Fire Slither Wing Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex in Sun: 179-211 (58.8 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 104 Def Zapdos in Sun: 439-517 (114.3 - 134.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Shit only gets crazy once you incorporate Tera Fire Flare Blitz under Sun. You not only can 2HKO targets like Toxapex, Lando-T, Dragonite, and Skeledirge, but you also flat out OHKO physically defensive Gliscor at full, no rolls, no chip, and since most players are probably going to go Gliscor as their switch in. That is when you can delete it from existence.

This, plus its ground resistance makes it a fantastic partner to the two new paradox doggos. CB Slither Wing is similar to CB Gouging Fire as a wallbreaker, but imo it might be more consistent. It’s better into offense due to priority and its neutrality to Stealth Rocks grants it more opportunities to come in.

Section III: Why Slither over Tusk?

These feats are impressive, but like with earlier SV metagames, Great Tusk can accomplish similar feats while sporting Rapid Spin and a stronger offensive typing. So why run Slither Wing? Great Tusk does not have that valuable +2 priority to pick off offensive threats. Slither Wing also sports better special bulk than Great Tusk, which becomes relevant into matchups like Darkrai or Archaludon. Great Tusk could also be forced out by Walking Wake, and other opposing Sun threats.

Section IV: Why Now and Not Earlier?

A few meta trends have been in Slither Wing’s favor. Zapdos has much less usage in the Indigo Disk metagame compared to its utter dominance in Home and Teal Mask OU. The same goes to Moltres. This means Slither Wing is less likely to be punished for using First Impression. Sun isn’t just “the other playstyle” anymore, it is a huge part of the metagame that accompanies some of the biggest threats in OU. Sash Rai leads are dangerous, especially for Sun teams, and Slither Wing can click First Impression to break the Sash or outright kill it if it’s Life Orb. Weavile and Meowscarada have resurfaced in the new metagame thanks to Triple Axel.

Section V: Slither Wing’s Flaws

Slither Wing is a solid anti-meta option on Sun, but I do not consider it staple material. Being locked into First Impression can cost you alot of momentum, and with Sun leaning towards being more aggressive, this is a major problem. It is also quite slow, and that results in Slither Wing being outsped by Gouging Fire, Kyurem, and Volcarona. These are also mons you don’t wanna be giving free turns to, and it alludes to its issue of sacking momentum.

Section VI: Defensive Slither Wing

Slither Wing @ Leftovers/Heavy-Duty Boots/Lum Berry
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 172 SpD / 84 Spe
Careful Nature
- Stun Spore/Will-O-Wisp/Whirlwind
- Low Kick
- U-turn
- Morning Sun​

The set has a spread that allows Slither Wing to outrun Jolly Gambit and get a SpD boost under Sun. That boost makes Slither Wing very bulky, and I mean, very bulky.

+1 SpD boost

252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Protosynthesis Slither Wing: 127-150 (33.9 - 40.1%) -- 37.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery



252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Protosynthesis Slither Wing: 94-112 (25.1 - 29.9%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery



+1 252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Protosynthesis Slither Wing: 271-321 (72.4 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery



+2 252 SpA Life Orb Tera Poison Darkrai Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Protosynthesis Slither Wing: 226-266 (60.4 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery



0 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Protosynthesis Slither Wing in Sun: 236-278 (63.1 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, Leftovers recovery, and trapping damage



252 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Protosynthesis Slither Wing in Sun: 284-336 (75.9 - 89.8%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock



+2 252 SpA Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Protosynthesis Slither Wing: 153-181 (40.9 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery



+2 252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Protosynthesis Slither Wing: 229-270 (61.2 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery



252 SpA Tornadus-Therian Bleakwind Storm vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Protosynthesis Slither Wing: 336-400 (89.8 - 106.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO (Torn sucks lmao)


252 SpA Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Protosynthesis Slither Wing: 168-200 (44.9 - 53.4%) -- 86.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Rather than focusing on Slither Wing’s offensive prawless, I wanted to highlight its unique defensive profile and utility.

While I think Choice Band is worth noting, imo what will ultimately be its niche is as a defensive pivot under Sun. Sun already has raw power, but what it tends to lack is pivots. Outside of one-time pivots like Eject Button Hatt and Eject Pack Tusk, or CB Moon, Sun teams are missing a defensive backbone and a pivot. Slither Wing functions as both.

Slither Wing can help Sun play around and check a wide range of threats such as Specs Dragapult, Darkrai, Gholdengo, Kyurem, Raging Bolt, Zamazenta, Kingambit, Great Tusk, and in return, it can punish them with Stun Spore or Will O Wisp. Whirlwind is another option which lets it phaze out SD Gliscor, Sub-Ironpress Zama, and Curse Garg. While these are not super common, they can 6-0 unprepped teams very easily.

I chose Tera Water because it patches up its Fire weakness, and it lets Sun check Walking Wake. Lum Berry is an option specifically to beat Darkrai leads.

Defensive pivots for Sun are rare because most of them don’t fit well on the archetype and/or they don’t patch up Sun’s weaknesses. You definitely don’t wanna be running Glowking. Corviknight and Alomomola are too passive. Gliscor and Lando share weaknesses with the other Sun staples like Kyurem. Washtom doesn’t want its Hydro Pumps to be weakened. Slither Wing boasts 135 Atk with Low Kick which is base 120 against most of the metagame and packs Stun Spore/Wisp, while patching up Sun’s lack of special walls.

The two mons that it is completely walled by are Gliscor who is picked off by Walking Wake, Gholdengo who is picked off by Gouging Fire or Roaring Moon, and Toxapex who is picked off by Raging Bolt. Slither Wing’s unique qualities keep it from being deadweight in any matchup.

Section VII: Conclusion

Slither Wing has a set of unique attributes that fit nicely with the current OU landscape compared to how it was a year ago. Choice Band is a terrifying Sun wallbreaker with priority, but the best set is its Pivot set which helps Sun check a merit of offensive threats like Kyurem, Dragapult, Darkrai, and Great Tusk while grabbing momentum in an archetype that thrives off it. Enabling powerful threats like CB Gouging Fire or Specs Walking Wake. Sun has recently been exploring other options in the builder, and I believe Slither Wing should be considered one of those options as well.

edit: as a special treat, here’s a replay of choice band gouging fire being broken that also mildly shows Slither Wing’s ability to be a pivot, as shown when it switches into Ttar to bring in Torkoal to get Sun back up. Apologies to the person on the receiving end.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2038657104-qi51a7h3wm4xq7f1kiadnqbscx177g7pw

 

[kosecant]

If you are having trouble sleeping at night, watch the OU discussion forums discuss sleep for 20 pages.

For one minute I wanna stray away from sleep and talk about a mon lost to the sands of time in SV OU. Volcarona’s ancient cousin Slither Wing.

View attachment 594039
Slither Wing @ Choice Band
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- First Impression
- Close Combat
- Flare Blitz
- U-turn​

Section I: Competitive History
In the very early stages of SV OU, there was mild interest in Slither Wing. It sported 135 Attack and STAB First Impression which was important in the newly hyper aggressive metagame. It sported coverage in Earthquake and Flare Blitz to hit Toxapex and Gholdengo. Slither Wing also had Morning Sun and support options like Will-O-Wisp, U-Turn, Stun Spore, and Whirlwind, while resisting Great Tusk’s dual STABs. This led to players experimenting with more bulky variants of it. The playerbase’s interest in Slither Wing didn’t last unfortunately. Great Tusk outclassed it offensively and defensively due to its better physical bulk and Rapid Spin, which was mandatory during this metagame. It also failed to fit everything in its impressive movepool and First Impression just wasn’t enough to justify using the Moth, only accompanying a small niche in pre-Home OU. It dropped to UU and had an impressive run down there, but after the power level rose in Home and DLC1, it dropped to RU.

In DLC2, there might be hope for Slither Wing. Sun is more popular on ladder and tournaments than ever due to the additions of Gouging Fire and Raging Bolt. However Sun can find itself in troublesome matchups. Opposing Raging Bolt can be difficult to check or revenge kill, and it could bypass through Great Tusk with Tera Fairy. Iron Boulder could present problems since without H-Lilligant or Venusaur, they could struggle to rkill it once it hits the field, especially if it incorporates Tera for Raging Bolt or Kingambit. Playing around opposing weather can be tricky. Tyranitar can come in on Torkoal or Raging Bolt and either get up Rocks or click Knock Off. Resetting the weather vs Rain is a risk since Archaludon and Barraskewda threaten Torkoal with huge damage or a KO. Not to mention Walking Wake and Raging Bolt could lose the 1v1 to AV Archaludon. Sash Darkrai leads could threaten huge damage on Torkoal or put it to sleep and in the worst case scenario, could pick up multiple kills on against Sun. Sun teams also often lack three things, a strong defensive backbone, a slow pivot, and a special wall.

Section II: Slither Wing’s Role in Sun

Slither Wing sporting these unique qualities.

+ Offensive check to Great Tusk

+ Strong 90 BP Priority

+ Resistances to Dark, Ground, Grass, and Fighting

+ Flare Blitz under Sun (we’ll get to this)

+ Stronger Close Combats than Valiant, Zamazenta, and Tusk

+ STAB U-Turn

+ Decent special bulk (85hp/105spd)

+ Neutrality to Steath Rocks

+ Utility options in Will-O-Wisp, Stun Spore, Whirlwind, U-Turn, and Morning Sun

+ Protosynthesis

Slither Wing can fill a unique role as a wallbreaker with incredibly strong priority to help Sun play around offensive threats like Kingambit, Walking Wake, Barraskewda, Iron Boulder, Raging Bolt, Darkrai, Venusaur, H-Lilligant, and Barraskewda. Even vs resisted targets, Choice Band First Impression can take out weakened targets with ease.

First Impressions

252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing First Impression vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Kingambit: 277-327 (69.2 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing First Impression vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kingambit: 276-325 (80.9 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 205-242 (64.6 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing First Impression vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kyurem: 352-415 (90 - 106.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing First Impression vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gouging Fire: 137-162 (39 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing First Impression vs. 64 HP / 28 Def Raging Bolt: 339-400 (83.2 - 98.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Flying Roaring Moon: 214-252 (60.9 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 229-270 (73.6 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO



252+ Atk Choice Band Slither Wing First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Ground Volcarona: 354-417 (113.8 - 134%) -- guaranteed OHKO (outside of Sun)



252+ Atk Choice Band Slither Wing First Impression vs. 252 HP / 104 Def Tera Ground Volcarona: 306-361 (81.8 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (outside of Sun)



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing First Impression vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Walking Wake: 349-412 (102 - 120.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO



252+ Atk Choice Band Slither Wing First Impression vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Barraskewda: 376-444 (142.4 - 168.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO (in Rain)



252+ Atk Choice Band Slither Wing First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 542-642 (192.8 - 228.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO (outside of Sun)



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Poison Darkrai: 177-208 (62.9 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO



252+ Atk Choice Band Slither Wing First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Water Greninja: 345-406 (121 - 142.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO (outside of Sun)



252+ Atk Choice Band Slither Wing First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 188-222 (52 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (outside of Sun)



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing First Impression vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Venusaur: 376-444 (124.9 - 147.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lilligant-Hisui: 411-484 (146.2 - 172.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Bug/Fighting with it’s notable resistances, plus its decent special bulk gives it opportunities to come in, with the added benefit of checking Great Tusk and Darkrai. Slither Wing is tanky enough to eat a Draco from Modest Archaludon. It also has a solid matchup into the popular Meowscarada who is ironically troublesome for Sun because it can be lead with to outspeed and threatens everything if Sun isn’t up and could pivot into Glowking on Torkoal to reset the weather.

Defensive Calcs

252 Atk Iron Treads Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Slither Wing: 89-105 (28.6 - 33.7%) -- 0.9% chance to 3HKO



252 Atk Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Slither Wing: 119-141 (38.2 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO



0 Atk Ting-Lu Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Slither Wing: 71-84 (22.8 - 27%) -- 37.7% chance to 4HKO



252 Atk Meowscarada Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Slither Wing: 85-101 (27.3 - 32.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO



252 Atk Protean Meowscarada Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Slither Wing: 210-252 (67.5 - 81%) -- approx. 2HKO



252 Atk Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Slither Wing: 112-132 (36 - 42.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO



252 Atk Zamazenta Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Slither Wing: 125-148 (40.1 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO



252 SpA Darkrai Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Slither Wing: 97-115 (31.1 - 36.9%) -- 77.1% chance to 3HKO



+2 252 SpA Darkrai Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Slither Wing: 193-228 (62 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO



252 Atk Iron Boulder Mighty Cleave vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Slither Wing: 178-210 (57.2 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO



252+ SpA Archaludon Electro Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Slither Wing: 146-172 (46.9 - 55.3%) -- 71.1% chance to 2HKO



252+ SpA Archaludon Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Slither Wing: 219-258 (70.4 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Slither Wing is also stupidly strong, especially under Sun. You 2HKO defensive Tusk with Close Combat even outside of Sun and have a high roll to OHKO offensive variants, which are more common due to Gliscor and Skarmory’s presence. Taking out Tusk means Raging Bolt has the freedom to click Thunderclap and DD Gouging Fire has more opportunities to sweep. Slither Wing has other crazy calcs like

Offensive Calcs

252+ Atk Choice Band Slither Wing Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 196+ Def Gholdengo: 346-408 (91.5 - 107.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO (outside of Sun)



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Tera Fire Slither Wing Flare Blitz vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Gliscor in Sun: 399-469 (113.3 - 133.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing Close Combat vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Tera Water Gliscor: 265-313 (75.2 - 88.9%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Great Tusk: 340-402 (91.6 - 108.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO



252+ Atk Choice Band Slither Wing Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Great Tusk: 202-238 (46.5 - 54.8%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (outside of Sun)



252+ Atk Choice Band Slither Wing Close Combat vs. 64 HP / 28 Def Raging Bolt: 348-409 (85.5 - 100.4%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (outside of Sun)



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Hatterene in Sun: 334-394 (105 - 123.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Tera Water Hatterene: 334-394 (105 - 123.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO



252+ Atk Choice Band Slither Wing Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pelipper: 119-141 (36.8 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (in Rain)



252+ Atk Choice Band Slither Wing Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Skarmory: 201-237 (60.1 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (outside of Sun)



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 189-223 (47.9 - 56.5%) -- 35.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable in Sun: 379-447 (96.1 - 113.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO



252+ Atk Choice Band Slither Wing Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 217-256 (43 - 50.7%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO (outside of Sun, yes this is real)



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 282-333 (55.9 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO



-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-Therian in Sun: 222-262 (58.1 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Tera Fire Slither Wing Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skeledirge in Sun: 233-274 (56.5 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Tera Fire Slither Wing Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Torkoal in Sun: 183-216 (53.3 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Torkoal: 246-289 (71.7 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Tera Fire Slither Wing Flare Blitz vs. 144 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite in Sun: 169-199 (47 - 55.4%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Tera Fire Slither Wing Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex in Sun: 179-211 (58.8 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery



252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 104 Def Zapdos in Sun: 439-517 (114.3 - 134.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Shit only gets crazy once you incorporate Tera Fire Flare Blitz under Sun. You not only can 2HKO targets like Toxapex, Lando-T, Dragonite, and Skeledirge, but you also flat out OHKO physically defensive Gliscor at full, no rolls, no chip, and since most players are probably going to go Gliscor as their switch in. That is when you can delete it from existence.

This, plus its ground resistance makes it a fantastic partner to the two new paradox doggos. CB Slither Wing is similar to CB Gouging Fire as a wallbreaker, but imo it might be more consistent. It’s better into offense due to priority and its neutrality to Stealth Rocks grants it more opportunities to come in.

Section III: Why Slither over Tusk?

These feats are impressive, but like with earlier SV metagames, Great Tusk can accomplish similar feats while sporting Rapid Spin and a stronger offensive typing. So why run Slither Wing? Great Tusk does not have that valuable +2 priority to pick off offensive threats. Slither Wing also sports better special bulk than Great Tusk, which becomes relevant into matchups like Darkrai or Archaludon. Great Tusk could also be forced out by Walking Wake, and other opposing Sun threats.

Section IV: Why Now and Not Earlier?

A few meta trends have been in Slither Wing’s favor. Zapdos has much less usage in the Indigo Disk metagame compared to its utter dominance in Home and Teal Mask OU. The same goes to Moltres. This means Slither Wing is less likely to be punished for using First Impression. Sun isn’t just “the other playstyle” anymore, it is a huge part of the metagame that accompanies some of the biggest threats in OU. Sash Rai leads are dangerous, especially for Sun teams, and Slither Wing can click First Impression to break the Sash or outright kill it if it’s Life Orb. Weavile and Meowscarada have resurfaced in the new metagame thanks to Triple Axel.

Section V: Slither Wing’s Flaws

Slither Wing is a solid anti-meta option on Sun, but I do not consider it staple material. Being locked into First Impression can cost you alot of momentum, and with Sun leaning towards being more aggressive, this is a major problem. It is also quite slow, and that results in Slither Wing being outsped by Gouging Fire, Kyurem, and Volcarona. These are also mons you don’t wanna be giving free turns to, and it alludes to its issue of sacking momentum.

Section VI: Defensive Slither Wing

Slither Wing @ Leftovers/Heavy-Duty Boots/Lum Berry
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 172 SpD / 84 Spe
Careful Nature
- Stun Spore/Will-O-Wisp/Whirlwind
- Low Kick
- U-turn
- Morning Sun​

The set has a spread that allows Slither Wing to outrun Jolly Gambit and get a SpD boost under Sun. That boost makes Slither Wing very bulky, and I mean, very bulky.

+1 SpD boost

252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Protosynthesis Slither Wing: 127-150 (33.9 - 40.1%) -- 37.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery



252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Protosynthesis Slither Wing: 94-112 (25.1 - 29.9%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery



+1 252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Protosynthesis Slither Wing: 271-321 (72.4 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery



+2 252 SpA Life Orb Tera Poison Darkrai Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Protosynthesis Slither Wing: 226-266 (60.4 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery



0 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Protosynthesis Slither Wing in Sun: 236-278 (63.1 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, Leftovers recovery, and trapping damage



252 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Protosynthesis Slither Wing in Sun: 284-336 (75.9 - 89.8%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock



+2 252 SpA Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Protosynthesis Slither Wing: 153-181 (40.9 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery



+2 252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Protosynthesis Slither Wing: 229-270 (61.2 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery



252 SpA Tornadus-Therian Bleakwind Storm vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Protosynthesis Slither Wing: 336-400 (89.8 - 106.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO (Torn sucks lmao)


252 SpA Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Protosynthesis Slither Wing: 168-200 (44.9 - 53.4%) -- 86.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Rather than focusing on Slither Wing’s offensive prawless, I wanted to highlight its unique defensive profile and utility.

While I think Choice Band is worth noting, imo what will ultimately be its niche is as a defensive pivot under Sun. Sun already has raw power, but what it tends to lack is pivots. Outside of one-time pivots like Eject Button Hatt and Eject Pack Tusk, or CB Moon, Sun teams are missing a defensive backbone and a pivot. Slither Wing functions as both.

Slither Wing can help Sun play around and check a wide range of threats such as Specs Dragapult, Darkrai, Gholdengo, Kyurem, Raging Bolt, Zamazenta, Kingambit, Great Tusk, and in return, it can punish them with Stun Spore or Will O Wisp. Whirlwind is another option which lets it phaze out SD Gliscor, Sub-Ironpress Zama, and Curse Garg. While these are not super common, they can 6-0 unprepped teams very easily.

I chose Tera Water because it patches up its Fire weakness, and it lets Sun check Walking Wake. Lum Berry is an option specifically to beat Darkrai leads.

Defensive pivots for Sun are rare because most of them don’t fit well on the archetype and/or they don’t patch up Sun’s weaknesses. You definitely don’t wanna be running Glowking. Corviknight and Alomomola are too passive. Gliscor and Lando share weaknesses with the other Sun staples like Kyurem. Washtom doesn’t want its Hydro Pumps to be weakened. Slither Wing boasts 135 Atk with Low Kick which is base 120 against most of the metagame and packs Stun Spore/Wisp, while patching up Sun’s lack of special walls.

The two mons that it is completely walled by are Gliscor who is picked off by Walking Wake, Gholdengo who is picked off by Gouging Fire or Roaring Moon, and Toxapex who is picked off by Raging Bolt. Slither Wing’s unique qualities keep it from being deadweight in any matchup.

Section VII: Conclusion

Slither Wing has a set of unique attributes that fit nicely with the current OU landscape compared to how it was a year ago. Choice Band is a terrifying Sun wallbreaker with priority, but the best set is its Pivot set which helps Sun check a merit of offensive threats like Kyurem, Dragapult, Darkrai, and Great Tusk while grabbing momentum in an archetype that thrives off it. Enabling powerful threats like CB Gouging Fire or Specs Walking Wake. Sun has recently been exploring other options in the builder, and I believe Slither Wing should be considered one of those options as well.

Slither wing is cool as fuck, and heavily underrated as a breaker. Excellent write up!

 

[Divine Retribution]

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You could have at least put a tiny bit of effort into these tbh.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

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angry-react wasn't a sufficient way to communicate how bad this post is, so let me break it down meme by meme:

• first meme: bad comparisons. hp percentage mod is just a convenient replacement for a judge and a calculator, freeze clause mod isn't cart-accurate but it's justifiable in old gens for a billion more reasons than sleep clause mod is in current gen, the cancel button can be replicated by having an intermediary (someone already talked about this), all of the auxiliary info can be replicated by paying attention and remembering things, and the in-game timer is both impossible to properly replicate and a shitty idea anyway
• second meme: besides the fact that the meme format doesn't actually work the way you did it and patrick is supposed to say "makes sense to me" at some point, and also the fact that you spelled "tera" wrong, it's another bad comparison. the sleep discussion is about reevaluating an existing clause that restricts a clearly uncompetitive mechanic but doesn't gel with modern policy. the tera discussion is about whether to implement a new clause on a currently unrestricted mechanic that the community can't even agree is broken or not. two vastly different conversations
• third meme: the fact that the caption is a quote in the first panel but a label in the second, with no distinction between them, irks me. also, species clause is a real in-game optional rule, banning the mons instead of the exclusive moves is a safety precaution, and the ban of terapagos-mid alongside terapagos-broken is something i disagree with personally and initially thought should be changed (like how the tiering for megas was changed) but there are actual programming reasons why it can't work. also, calling the terapagos decision "archaic" when it happened only a month ago is insane

tl;dr read policy and learn to make memes

 

[Xufactor]

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This is a trap designed to invalidate the opinion of anyone who answers it in your eyes: either we commit all the way for the sake of cart accuracy and agree to get rid of a QoL change that people would be upset about removing, turning public opinion against us, or we pick and choose what we want to be cart accurate about, undermining the argument. It’s bait, which is a jerk thing to do.

Also, the memes are pretty funny.

 

[Cuddly]

View attachment 594182

HP Percentage, Cancel Button, and Auxiliary Battle Info are fine for battle sims because none of them change the actual battle itself. HP percentage mod just shows you the percentage a Pokemon is at, which just makes it easier to gauge your opponent's HP at a glance. Cancel Button makes sure you can correct a mistake after misclicking or thinking about your move more. Auxiliary Info could 100% be done on paper or computer notepad, just making the whole thing easier.
Freeze Clause and Battle Timer do in fact change the game even if it's slight.
In fact, No Battle Timer unironically has the most impact as Stall teams for VGC are harder to use, and timer stalling is an actual (pretty scummy) tactic for VGC.
Normally this wouldn't work because animations of Showdown are different from ingame, but what could be done to solve this is use frame data of moves to subtract from the timer. You have 20:00 on the timer, you have a turn that takes 40 seconds worth of animations, when the turn ends you end up with 19:20. Something like that to make the game more cart accurate.

 

[EpicGuy321]

The main purpose of the Species Clause, from what I understand, it to make guess work for the opponent a little bit more fair mid match.
Like for example, say you’re playing AG and your opponent has 2 Calyrex-S with different items and moves. It’s be pretty unfair and easy to get cheap KOs because you could possibly determine 1 Calyrex-S’s set (say specs), but once they bring it back in, it’s hard to tell if Calyrex-S coming in is the same Specs one or is an entirely new one.
You could determine it somewhat more easily on Showdown due to PP showing, percentage based HP, and chat logs, but otherwise it’s pretty much a gamble.
If your opponent is using Calyrex-I and Calyrex-S together, it isn’t so bad either.
Imo it’s be fine and even neat to have Species Clause allowed alternate forms, but I would say that’s very low priority for a change.

AG has no species clause. The only reason you can't have 6 Caly-S is because it isn't possible on cart without hacking.

 

[MetaSkipper]

If you are having trouble sleeping at night, watch the OU discussion forums discuss sleep for 20 pages.

For one minute I wanna stray away from sleep and talk about a mon lost to the sands of time in SV OU. Volcarona’s ancient cousin Slither Wing.

View attachment 594039
Slither Wing @ Choice Band
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- First Impression
- Close Combat
- Flare Blitz
- U-turn​

Section VI: Defensive Slither Wing

Slither Wing @ Leftovers/Heavy-Duty Boots/Lum Berry
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 172 SpD / 84 Spe
Careful Nature
- Stun Spore/Will-O-Wisp/Whirlwind
- Low Kick
- U-turn
- Morning Sun​

The set has a spread that allows Slither Wing to outrun Jolly Gambit and get a SpD boost under Sun. That boost makes Slither Wing very bulky, and I mean, very bulky.

+1 SpD boost

252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Protosynthesis Slither Wing: 127-150 (33.9 - 40.1%) -- 37.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery



252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Protosynthesis Slither Wing: 94-112 (25.1 - 29.9%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery



+1 252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Protosynthesis Slither Wing: 271-321 (72.4 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery



+2 252 SpA Life Orb Tera Poison Darkrai Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Protosynthesis Slither Wing: 226-266 (60.4 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery



0 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Protosynthesis Slither Wing in Sun: 236-278 (63.1 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, Leftovers recovery, and trapping damage



252 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Protosynthesis Slither Wing in Sun: 284-336 (75.9 - 89.8%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock



+2 252 SpA Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Protosynthesis Slither Wing: 153-181 (40.9 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery



+2 252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Protosynthesis Slither Wing: 229-270 (61.2 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery



252 SpA Tornadus-Therian Bleakwind Storm vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Protosynthesis Slither Wing: 336-400 (89.8 - 106.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO (Torn sucks lmao)


252 SpA Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Protosynthesis Slither Wing: 168-200 (44.9 - 53.4%) -- 86.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Rather than focusing on Slither Wing’s offensive prawless, I wanted to highlight its unique defensive profile and utility.

While I think Choice Band is worth noting, imo what will ultimately be its niche is as a defensive pivot under Sun. Sun already has raw power, but what it tends to lack is pivots. Outside of one-time pivots like Eject Button Hatt and Eject Pack Tusk, or CB Moon, Sun teams are missing a defensive backbone and a pivot. Slither Wing functions as both.

Slither Wing can help Sun play around and check a wide range of threats such as Specs Dragapult, Darkrai, Gholdengo, Kyurem, Raging Bolt, Zamazenta, Kingambit, Great Tusk, and in return, it can punish them with Stun Spore or Will O Wisp. Whirlwind is another option which lets it phaze out SD Gliscor, Sub-Ironpress Zama, and Curse Garg. While these are not super common, they can 6-0 unprepped teams very easily.

I chose Tera Water because it patches up its Fire weakness, and it lets Sun check Walking Wake. Lum Berry is an option specifically to beat Darkrai leads.

Defensive pivots for Sun are rare because most of them don’t fit well on the archetype and/or they don’t patch up Sun’s weaknesses. You definitely don’t wanna be running Glowking. Corviknight and Alomomola are too passive. Gliscor and Lando share weaknesses with the other Sun staples like Kyurem. Washtom doesn’t want its Hydro Pumps to be weakened. Slither Wing boasts 135 Atk with Low Kick which is base 120 against most of the metagame and packs Stun Spore/Wisp, while patching up Sun’s lack of special walls.

The two mons that it is completely walled by are Gliscor who is picked off by Walking Wake, Gholdengo who is picked off by Gouging Fire or Roaring Moon, and Toxapex who is picked off by Raging Bolt. Slither Wing’s unique qualities keep it from being deadweight in any matchup.

Section VII: Conclusion

Slither Wing has a set of unique attributes that fit nicely with the current OU landscape compared to how it was a year ago. Choice Band is a terrifying Sun wallbreaker with priority, but the best set is its Pivot set which helps Sun check a merit of offensive threats like Kyurem, Dragapult, Darkrai, and Great Tusk while grabbing momentum in an archetype that thrives off it. Enabling powerful threats like CB Gouging Fire or Specs Walking Wake. Sun has recently been exploring other options in the builder, and I believe Slither Wing should be considered one of those options as well.

I've been using a middle-way pivot set with Slither Wing on a non-sun team as a Great Tusk and Kingambit check (and a check to a lot of common physical threats in general). 172 HP/252+ Atk/84 Spe has been a good mix for both punch for First Impressions and Low Kicks but still having enough staying power to function as a pivot and wall.

Those Sun-boosted SpD calcs are actually really sick. Slither Wing's typing means it tends to be weak to the common special moves, but investment plus the sun boost seems to potentially take you far.

 

[senorlopez]

angry-react wasn't a sufficient way to communicate how bad this post is, so let me break it down meme by meme:

• first meme: bad comparisons. hp percentage mod is just a convenient replacement for a judge and a calculator, freeze clause mod isn't cart-accurate but it's justifiable in old gens for a billion more reasons than sleep clause mod is in current gen, the cancel button can be replicated by having an intermediary (someone already talked about this), all of the auxiliary info can be replicated by paying attention and remembering things, and the in-game timer is both impossible to properly replicate and a shitty idea anyway
• second meme: besides the fact that the meme format doesn't actually work the way you did it and patrick is supposed to say "makes sense to me" at some point, and also the fact that you spelled "tera" wrong, it's another bad comparison. the sleep discussion is about reevaluating an existing clause that restricts a clearly uncompetitive mechanic but doesn't gel with modern policy. the tera discussion is about whether to implement a new clause on a currently unrestricted mechanic that the community can't even agree is broken or not. two vastly different conversations
• third meme: the fact that the caption is a quote in the first panel but a label in the second, with no distinction between them, irks me. also, species clause is a real in-game optional rule, banning the mons instead of the exclusive moves is a safety precaution, and the ban of terapagos-mid alongside terapagos-broken is something i disagree with personally and initially thought should be changed (like how the tiering for megas was changed) but there are actual programming reasons why it can't work. also, calling the terapagos decision "archaic" when it happened only a month ago is insane

tl;dr read policy and learn to make memes

Riling you up shouldn't be considered an achievement, so i'll take it with a grain of salt.

Ad hominem aside (yes, I am bad at memes and grammar lelelel), I feel the comparisons I made are fair. If you want cart accuracy, then you can't cherry pick what you would like to keep in the simulator because it's convenient to have regardless if it's replicable via some third party.

the sleep discussion is about reevaluating an existing clause that restricts a clearly uncompetitive mechanic but doesn't gel with modern policy. the tera discussion is about whether to implement a new clause on a currently unrestricted mechanic that the community can't even agree is broken or not.

You're speaking as if you are an arbiter of judgement on what is uncompetitive and what is not - that is different from everyone so try not to speak for others; neither you nor I can speak for the community and things are always evolving over time. I could just as easily say that the community can't even agree whether sleep is broken or not (instead of tera). I'm also not quite sure what changes in modern policy you're referring to that constitute a call for sleep getting banned- to me it just seemed like a broken mon was running a hax set and some person got mad - feel free to tell me (I know you will) because I genuinely don't know.

also, species clause is a real in-game optional rule, banning the mons instead of the exclusive moves is a safety precaution

So is no duplicate held items, so is no mythicals etc. There hasn't been a precedent for us caring about in-game rulings. Regarding the last point, I actually get it, the burden of proof is on yaddah yaddah yah, set a precedence yaddah yaddah yah but it just seems very wishy washy especially since exclusive moves are becoming an increasing occurrence and we need to adapt to that (eventually).

the ban of terapagos-mid alongside terapagos-broken is something i disagree with personally and initially thought should be changed (like how the tiering for megas was changed) but there are actual programming reasons why it can't work. also, calling the terapagos decision "archaic" when it happened only a month ago is insane

Glad we could agree on something! The programming part is just not true btw . The banning of terapagos itself stems from a combination of archaic policies, and this was an implementation of those policies, though you already knew that - you just framed the argument in a way that was convenient to your position.

 

[imsosorrylol]

sleep ban advocates when you ask them why this wasn't an issue in sv before darkrai

 

[RyukTheDarkrai]

AG has no species clause. The only reason you can't have 6 Caly-S is because it isn't possible on cart without hacking.

Technically, you could have six Shadow Rider Calyrex in SV by transferring over your Calyrex and Spectrier from SS and resetting your copy of SS, repeating the process until you have six.

 

[Pokenar]

The fact Terapagos-mid was banned because of traditional rulings is one of the reasons why I am being harsh on sleep clause, actually.

If we sit here and say "We can't do that because we can't do it on cart" or "traditionally, we don't do those sorts of complex bans" then we should do away with existing exceptions like sleep clause mod. be consist and remove it so it can not longer be used as an argument for why something else should get the same treatment

 

[Divine Retribution]

sleep ban advocates when you ask them why this wasn't an issue in sv before darkraiView attachment 594212

Yeah, that is roughly how I look when I need to point out for the 1,348,604,512th time that sleep clause has been controversial basically since the start and a bunch of other metas have already banned sleep for the same basic reasons we're articulating now

Technically, you could have six Shadow Rider Calyrex in SV by transferring over your Calyrex and Spectrier from SS and resetting your copy of SS, repeating the process until you have six.

This doesn't work. The game will only let you fuse one Calyrex/horse at a time.

 

[coolprez]

that still allows for stuff that's almost identical, like maushold and maushold-four, to be used. the only mechanical difference is that maushold-four weighs 0.5 kg more, which makes a difference literally never, but we'd have to allow it. you really want one maushold to wear down your checks and the other one to sweep? you want an army of funko pops coming in to slaughter the tier en masse (or rather, en mouse)? well, that's what we'll have unless we get more arbitrary, and we're already stacking arbitrary on top of arbitrary. as much as it pains me to say it, species clause has to stay how it is

also, the way our clause works is how the actual clause works in-game, but who even cares about that

hasn't this sorta thing been discussed for the sake of tiering seperate forms? you could have it so that if two forms are tiered seperately they can be used on the same team

 

[Xufactor]

angry-react wasn't a sufficient way to communicate how bad this post is, so let me break it down meme by meme

you should’ve happy reacted and then communicated how bad the memes are

also, does it matter if things are replicable with cart if it’s cumbersome for players to do them?

 

[A_Wild_Noob_Appeared!]

Ad hominem aside (yes, I am bad at memes and grammar lelelel), I feel the comparisons I made are fair. If you want cart accuracy, then you can't cherry pick what you would like to keep in the simulator because it's convenient to have regardless if it's replicable via some third party.

All of the "mods" you mentioned fall into two categories:
1) Minimally invasive changes which can be considered near-objective improvements. HP Percentage is there so we don't have to deal with the mental strain of an uncommon number system and does not affect player decisions in 99% of cases (and isn't even a mod in the current gen). Move cancelling and information tracking also do not affect game decisions from a theoretical point of view (and aren't really even mods).
2) Changes which are strictly necessary to prevent overwhelmingly negative consequences. 6v6 Singles is basically unplayable with a 20 minute timer and everyone knows it. Freeze Clauses prevent the massive impact of banning all Ice-type moves, which would require redoing the entire gen from the ground up. If you consider "you can't click the Dynamax button" to be a mod, then that is also clearly necessary to have a competitive game.

None of that is applicable to Sleep Clause. Modded sleep moves are not strictly necessary for a competitive environment in modern generations, the modifications are invasive and introduce artificial forms of counterplay (sleep fodder), and there is not a clear overwhelming consensus that Sleep Clause makes the game better or more fun.

Even if you want people to admit that modding is okay in some circumstances, it should be agreed upon that banning things in line with the tiering system should be preferred to modding if possible. There is a clean and simple way to deal with sleep-inducing moves that does not cause significant damage and does not require modifying the game, and the only reason we haven't done that is because we automatically re-introduce Sleep Clause at the start of each generation with no discussion.

 

[senorlopez]

All of the "mods" you mentioned fall into two categories:
1) Minimally invasive changes which can be considered near-objective improvements. HP Percentage is there so we don't have to deal with the mental strain of an uncommon number system and does not affect player decisions in 99% of cases (and isn't even a mod in the current gen). Move cancelling and information tracking also do not affect game decisions from a theoretical point of view.
2) Changes which are strictly necessary to prevent overwhelmingly negative consequences. 6v6 Singles is basically unplayable with a 20 minute timer and everyone knows it. Freeze Clauses prevent the massive impact of banning all Ice-type moves, which would require redoing the entire gen from the ground up. If you consider "you can't click the Dynamax button" to be a mod, then that is also clearly necessary to have a competitive game.

None of that is applicable to Sleep Clause. Modded sleep moves are not strictly necessary for a competitive environment in modern generations, the modifications are invasive and introduce artificial forms of counterplay (sleep fodder), and there is not a clear consensus that Sleep Clause makes the game better or more fun.

Even if you want people to admit that modding is okay in some circumstances, it should be agreed upon that banning things in line with the tiering system should be preferred to modding if possible. There is a clean and simple way to deal with sleep-inducing moves that does not cause significant damage and does not require modifying the game, and the only reason we haven't done that is because we automatically re-introduce Sleep Clause at the start of each generation with no discussion.

Thank you for presenting an actual quality post that challenges some of the points I have presented.

I want to make clear that I am 100% for the QOL features that showdown presents. My intention for that particular meme was to challenge those who sought a 100% faithful simulator.

 

[Cuddly]

AG has no species clause. The only reason you can't have 6 Caly-S is because it isn't possible on cart without hacking.

Yeah I know, which is why I mentioned AG.
What I didn't know is that you can have only 1 Calyrex at a time in game.
But you get the idea right?

 

[Rootb]

that still allows for stuff that's almost identical, like maushold and maushold-four, to be used. the only mechanical difference is that maushold-four weighs 0.5 kg more, which makes a difference literally never, but we'd have to allow it. you really want one maushold to wear down your checks and the other one to sweep? you want an army of funko pops coming in to slaughter the tier en masse (or rather, en mouse)? well, that's what we'll have unless we get more arbitrary, and we're already stacking arbitrary on top of arbitrary. as much as it pains me to say it, species clause has to stay how it is

also, the way our clause works is how the actual clause works in-game, but who even cares about that

I could see a compromise like assigning regional forms a unique (garbage) dex number, and amending the species clause to require all pokemon to have a unique dex number, rather than a unique species. Stuff like Deoxys, Necrozma, or Furfrou would all be the same pokedex number, since they're just formes of each other, but the Galarian Birds would be (for example) #9005, 9006 and 9007.

Species Clause is something that's always made intrinsic sense, but it's very weird how you can use Quagsire & Clodsire together, but not their mechanically distinct pre-evolutions. Or Entei & Entei 2, but not Zapdos & Zapdos 2.

I don't think it needs to be done, but if Gamefreak keeps blurring the line, it might eventually be more than a corner case.

 

[MegaScizor32]

lmao no you absolutely could not. the community is in nearly universal agreement that sleep is an uncompetitive mechanic by definition. half the "don't banned sleep" arguments act like sleep clause mod is an actual part of the base game. it isn't. sleep is uncompetitive. it's unfair. it's so awful that even game freak knows how stupid it is. anyone arguing that "sleep is ok" is taking sleep clause mod for granted

I disagree. Sleep when unlimited is uncompetitive but under a one mon sleep limitation is easily manageable, therefore more balanced. Not everyone has come to the conclusion that Sleep (under the Sleep Clause Mod) is uncompetitive or else something would’ve been done about it long ago. Its always been a subject of debate and people have always been torn on the topic. Its dependant on how you see competiveness. Its not black and white. Just like how some see Terastilization uncompetitive while others see it competitive.

The Definition of Uncompetitive according to Policy Tiering

II.) Uncompetitive - elements that reduce the effect of player choice / interaction on the end result to an extreme degree, such that "more skillful play" is almost always rendered irrelevant.

You can skillfully play around sleep. Never once have I been in a situation where one of my mons was put to sleep and it made me think “ah shit theres nothing i can do now, I’ve lost the game, nooooo……”. You can literally gameplan around sleep and is not as strong as yall make it out to be. Its not game-warping/breaking at all. Now if there was no limit to how many mons you can sleep than it would be a different story.

Sleep is not even the best status condition. That would belong to Freeze. Then it’s debatable between, sleep and paralysis for #2.

 

[veti]

I disagree. Sleep when unlimited is uncompetitive but under a one mon sleep limitation is easily manageable, therefore more balanced.

"under a one mon sleep limitation"

Anything is balanced if you limit it through modding or forfeits, unban evasion but force switch out immediately or lose the game if you don't, unban every uber but only let them attack once, unban kings rock but force a forfeit if it activates, mod flutter mane to have base 100 in all stats.

Arbitrary limitations on sleep shouldn't exist in gen 9, either it's fine unrestricted or it should be banned. Oldgens like RBY are different because of how the tier would be fundamentally different without sleep, but SV would just go back to the state it was not very long ago and nothing of value would be lost.

 

[MegaScizor32]

"under a one mon sleep limitation"

Anything is balanced if you limit it through modding or forfeits, unban evasion but force switch out immediately or lose the game if you don't, unban every uber but only let them attack once, unban kings rock but force a forfeit if it activates, mod flutter mane to have base 100 in all stats.

Arbitrary limitations on sleep shouldn't exist in gen 9, either it's fine unrestricted or it should be banned. Oldgens like RBY are different because of how the tier would be fundamentally different without sleep, but SV would just go back to the state it was not very long ago and nothing of value would be lost.

Thats not the point. The onus is on people wanting to ban sleep to prove its uncompetitive and unhealthy to the gen 9 metagame. And its not obvious. It’s extremely manageable with only one mon capable of being slept. The notable examples we have are hypnosis and which aren’t as viable in comparison to other sets they can run. If anything its much more reasonable to suspect test those mons before sleep.

 

[Pokenar]

Thats not the point. The onus is on people wanting to ban sleep to prove its uncompetitive and unhealthy to the gen 9 metagame. And its not obvious. It’s extremely manageable with only one mon capable of being slept. The notable examples we have are hypnosis and which aren’t as viable in comparison to other sets they can run. If anything its much more reasonable to suspect test those mons before sleep.

You keep ignoring the main point we are making

We find the very existence of a sleep clause mod to be a problem, and that it should be removed. we then theorize sleep would be too strong and need a quick ban once the illogical exception is removed.

 

[June Heat]

Thats not the point. The onus is on people wanting to ban sleep to prove its uncompetitive and unhealthy to the gen 9 metagame. And its not obvious. It’s extremely manageable with only one mon capable of being slept. The notable examples we have are hypnosis and which aren’t as viable in comparison to other sets they can run. If anything its much more reasonable to suspect test those mons before sleep.

Thank You! All anyone says is "not cart accurate" as their catch all argument, but Never does anyone really try to explain why Sleep under the Clause is uncompetitive. Like, it's been working fine for decades, and other Gen metas have even expressed how they're more inclined to keep Sleep Clause. So obviously something about Sleep Clause is healthy, and worth preserving. I get, not really, the whole tiering policy aspect, but if you really want to prove your side right go into detail on how Sleep as it currently is unhealthy as a whole, and not isolated to one or two Pokemon.

 

[MegaScizor32]

You keep ignoring the main point we are making

We find the very existence of a sleep clause mod to be a problem, and that it should be removed. we then theorize sleep would be too strong and need a quick ban once the illogical exception is removed.

Explain to me why sleep clause is a problem then. Something outside that its “not cart accurate” and “archaic” because those aren’t sufficient reasons to remove it.

Give some reasons why it makes the metagame uncompetitive and unhealthy.