Metagame SV RU Metagame Discussion (April Shifts, see post #191)

[FloopThePig]

Here is a very cheesy, yet fun Hitmonlee set that works on HO teams, especially if you stack Fighting-types:


Hitmonlee (M) @ Liechi Berry / Focus Sash
Ability: Unburden
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Reversal
- Upper Hand
- Endure / Swords Dance
- Knock Off

The combination of Reversal and Upper Hand is the main gimmick of this set. The insane power of Reversal at 1 HP (which is 200 BP for those of you who didn't know) means that only immunities and extremely bulky resists could stand up to it. Upper Hand is a +3 priority move that guarantees flinch, but only if the opponent is using a priority move. Since the move is so rare, I almost always get people with it, but if it gets more popular then it becomes more of a 50/50 mind game. It also helps that a lot of the priority users in the tier are weak to it or uses First Impression for Slither Wing's case. Use Fighting Tera to boost both moves, especially Reversal which even when resisted deals about the same damage as a non-STAB super-effective move.

I run 0 defensive EVs and IVs to ensure that Hitmonlee is knocked to 1 HP as often as possible. The choice between Endure + Liechi Berry vs SD + Focus Sash depends on how much you want to cheese. Endure is more reliable, but a +2 max power Reversal can output very impressive damage like one-shotting max defense Mew after SR or max defense Slowbro after SR and 1 layer of Spikes

Calcs at +1 Tera

+1 252+ Atk Tera Fighting Hitmonlee Reversal (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 271-319 (76.5 - 90.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes

+1 252+ Atk Tera Fighting Hitmonlee Reversal (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Chesnaught: 440-518 (115.7 - 136.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 252+ Atk Tera Fighting Hitmonlee Reversal (200 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Noivern: 408-480 (131.1 - 154.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 252+ Atk Tera Fighting Hitmonlee Reversal (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 72 Def Slither Wing: 377-444 (100.8 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 252+ Atk Tera Fighting Hitmonlee Reversal (200 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gardevoir: 240-283 (86.6 - 102.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+1 252+ Atk Hitmonlee Upper Hand vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 398-470 (110.2 - 130.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Bisharp, Crawdaunt, Lucario, and Lycanroc are all also OHKOed

Counters to this set are Ghost-types, (especially priority users like Mimikyu or Aqua Jet Basculegion), Swift Swim and Chlorophyll users, and bulky x2 and x4 resists like Fezandipiti, Slowbro, and Enamorus. But the biggest counter to tis is if your opponent decides to burn or poison or status you instead of attacking you to Reversal range, then you are essentially down a Pokémon. This scenario would definitely be more common if the broken offensive Pokémon that this set baits like Hoopa get banned. Just use SD White Herb CC or Mienshao/Terrakion/Lucario/Slither Wing if you want to win more. Fighting types are in a really good spot, so I might make a another post on Fighting-spam teams if I'm not lazy.

 

[Elec-ant1234]

hatsune miku if she was good

Hello there RU.
So, I made a small lil' post a while back before the tier shifts detailing Meloetta's niche in RU.
And I'm here to tell y'all, that it's NOT Meloettover! Despite Raikou and Enam both dropping, Meloetta still retains her previous niche, and still does well!

Just to explain a bit more about what exactly Meloetta does well, lets compare her bulk to various other competitors.

Meloetta has:
100 HP (enough for 100 HP subs)
77 Def (Honestly isn't as bad as you would think)
and 128 SpD (actually insane)

Other Bulky CM users:

• Fezendipiti(88/82/125) which is markedly worse, and can't play the "bulky" card well due to having plenty of common weaknesses
• Slowbro(95/110/80), which is actually pretty usable aside from the typing and speed, and regen could let you stick around longer
• Raikou(90/75/100) meloetta if she was mid
• Colbalion(91/129/72) someone could cook with this probably, expect special colbalion to make an appearance next RU tourny
• Enam-T(74/110/100) I mean it's not a win-con but it's a good option on it, but I really don't see it taking up the exact same niche as melo, due to the speed holding enam back, and less HP. also doesn't help that double dance is just better
• Vaporeon(130/60/95) no.
• Scream Tail(115/99/115) honestly the second-closest possible comparison. however the pitiful 65 SpA prevents scream tail from doing much else from soaking up hits
• Sylveon(95/65/130) the actual closest comparison, however having a single stab makes it kinda match-up fishy unless you want to forgo wish for something like tera blast (which meloetta does also use, but I'll get to why it's better in a sec)

So as you can see, the role of specially bulky win-con doesn't have too many close competitors. Another thing to mention is that offensively, in terms of stabs and typing, Meloetta kinda has all of these beat. Raikou is pretty cool with elec+water coverage, but it's still pretty inflexable with it's stab

Which is where I come to the meat of the matter. Meloetta, with it's 128 SpA (which puts meloetta in 9th place for highest spA in the tier btw), high bulk, and really good typing.
While lesser beings such as espeon might perish to a knock off, Meloetta has a trick up her sleeve(hair?):

Meloetta @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
Tera Type: Fighting/Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 44 SpA / 84 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Tera Blast
- Psyshock

This set alone has a great deal going for it (stat spread is a rough outline, but can be worked with to fit specific needs)
First off! As a normal type, Meloetta gains access to stab on Tera Blast! This allows Meloetta to always hit hard, independent of tera. Psyshock is also a great stab move, as it can slap stuff like Chansey silly for daring to switch in, which actually makes chansey easy set-up fodder (101 HP subs does that).
Now, pre-tera, Meloetta has actually pretty good coverage.

The list of mons that resist (or are immune) to normal + psychic are:
Bisharp, Empoleon, Forretress, Magnezone, Tinkaton

Pretty good eh? This means that against pretty much the entirely of the tier, you really don't have too many mons that you have to use tera to beat.
Now, you've got a cross-roads to follow. Tera Fighting completely flips your coverage to hit all of the previously mentioned mons (and lets you resist dark type moves which could be great behind a sub), and Tera Ground hits almost every mon in the tier.

Almost.
Zarude is your worst enemy if you go tera ground, and it completely curbstomps you. I personally prefer tera fighting as it lets you turn the tables on any dark type attackers that may come your way (like zarude), and honestly isn't that bad on Meloetta, since you do good into psychic + fairy types already.

All of this to say, that Meloetta absolutely thrives when it's against other special attackers. It can absolutely just set up for days against plenty of common special attackers(Heatom in particular does like 22% max w/ overheat), and has the speed + power to be able to come in mid-game to pick up a few KO's. Meloetta uninvested hits 216 speed, which is great as it's able to comfortably outspeed a good chunk of the bulky threats in the metagame.

Various Calcs vs. Common Special Attackers

252+ SpA Enamorus-Therian Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Meloetta: 133-157 (32.9 - 38.8%) -- 5.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

8 SpA Rotom-Heat Overheat vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Meloetta: 111-132 (27.4 - 32.6%) -- 68.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Rotom-Heat Overheat vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Meloetta: 138-163 (34.1 - 40.3%) -- 42% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Gardevoir Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Meloetta: 114-135 (28.2 - 33.4%) -- 91.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Munkidori Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Meloetta: 118-139 (29.2 - 34.4%) -- 99.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Tera Water Basculegion-F Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Meloetta: 279-331 (69 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
While this may seem like "big number = not good", you gotta understand that this is the very most powerful basc could possibly be, and this tiny lil' idol singer takes the hit like a champ

252 SpA Kilowattrel Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Meloetta: 118-139 (29.2 - 34.4%) -- 99.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Raikou Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Meloetta: 102-121 (25.2 - 29.9%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Meloetta: 164-194 (40.5 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Typhlosion-Hisui Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Meloetta: 174-205 (43 - 50.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

And all of these are before Meloetta sets up a CM

The exact same calcs, but Melo has set up a CM

252+ SpA Enamorus-Therian Moonblast vs. +1 252 HP / 84 SpD Meloetta: 88-105 (21.7 - 25.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

8 SpA Rotom-Heat Overheat vs. +1 252 HP / 84 SpD Meloetta: 75-88 (18.5 - 21.7%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Rotom-Heat Overheat vs. +1 252 HP / 84 SpD Meloetta: 93-109 (23 - 26.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Gardevoir Moonblast vs. +1 252 HP / 84 SpD Meloetta: 76-91 (18.8 - 22.5%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Munkidori Sludge Wave vs. +1 252 HP / 84 SpD Meloetta: 79-94 (19.5 - 23.2%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Tera Water Basculegion-F Hydro Pump vs. +1 252 HP / 84 SpD Meloetta: 187-220 (46.2 - 54.4%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Kilowattrel Hurricane vs. +1 252 HP / 84 SpD Meloetta: 78-93 (19.3 - 23%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Raikou Thunderbolt vs. +1 252 HP / 84 SpD Meloetta: 69-82 (17 - 20.2%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Fighting Hoopa Focus Blast vs. +1 252 HP / 84 SpD Meloetta: 165-195 (40.8 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 128 Def Meloetta: 116-137 (28.7 - 33.9%) -- 98.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
funnily enough psyshock ends up doing more damage lol

252 SpA Typhlosion-Hisui Eruption (150 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 84 SpD Meloetta: 117-138 (28.9 - 34.1%) -- 99% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

I recommend that you pair Meloetta with partners that do well into the physical attackers of the tier, and make sure to have hazard control on your team if you use her, as spikes and SR hurt any chance at chip healing. I also would recommend that any EV spreads lean into improving Meloetta's physical bulk, as 128 spD already hits a solid 300-ish with very little investment, and since meloetta already beats other special attackers, anything else is overkill; your main bet is improving physical bulk to be able to pick up KO's easier and take any stray hits you might need to take.

Also sidenote that I felt like I should put in, Meloetta's typing is also pretty unique as her normal typing is actually a great pairing w/ psychic, as both types pair together to negate ghost damage, and makes fighting attacks neutral, leaving dark as the only weakness, which again, gets covered perfectly through tera fighting.


So it was a bit long winded, and super long post, but TLDR:

• Meloetta retains the niche of being a bulky CM wincon that isn't easily replicated by any other mon in the tier
• Meloetta threatens a wide array of the tier, and is a great tera recipient
• Meloetta can switch in during mid-late game and either win the game or take 1-2 KO's reliably, assuming decent play from your end
• Meloetta can invalidate most special attackers in a straight 1v1, and sub either shuts em down completely, or lets you at least scout a bit in a worst-case scenario.

and this isn't all meloetta can do, as her movepool is honestly pretty vast, getting things like t-wave, u-turn, and if you want to cook, relic song

So please, at least consider and try out Meloetta!

 

[Bruxish supremacy]

View attachment 591584hatsune miku if she was good

Hello there RU.
So, I made a small lil' post a while back before the tier shifts detailing Meloetta's niche in RU.
And I'm here to tell y'all, that it's NOT Meloettover! Despite Raikou and Enam both dropping, Meloetta still retains her previous niche, and still does well!

Just to explain a bit more about what exactly Meloetta does well, lets compare her bulk to various other competitors.

Meloetta has:
100 HP (enough for 100 HP subs)
77 Def (Honestly isn't as bad as you would think)
and 128 SpD (actually insane)

Other Bulky CM users:

• Fezendipiti(88/82/125) which is markedly worse, and can't play the "bulky" card well due to having plenty of common weaknesses
• Slowbro(95/110/80), which is actually pretty usable aside from the typing and speed, and regen could let you stick around longer
• Raikou(90/75/100) meloetta if she was mid
• Colbalion(91/129/72) someone could cook with this probably, expect special colbalion to make an appearance next RU tourny
• Enam-T(74/110/100) I mean it's not a win-con but it's a good option on it, but I really don't see it taking up the exact same niche as melo, due to the speed holding enam back, and less HP. also doesn't help that double dance is just better
• Vaporeon(130/60/95) no.
• Scream Tail(115/99/115) honestly the second-closest possible comparison. however the pitiful 65 SpA prevents scream tail from doing much else from soaking up hits
• Sylveon(95/65/130) the actual closest comparison, however having a single stab makes it kinda match-up fishy unless you want to forgo wish for something like tera blast (which meloetta does also use, but I'll get to why it's better in a sec)

So as you can see, the role of specially bulky win-con doesn't have too many close competitors. Another thing to mention is that offensively, in terms of stabs and typing, Meloetta kinda has all of these beat. Raikou is pretty cool with elec+water coverage, but it's still pretty inflexable with it's stab

Which is where I come to the meat of the matter. Meloetta, with it's 128 SpA (which puts meloetta in 9th place for highest spA in the tier btw), high bulk, and really good typing.
While lesser beings such as espeon might perish to a knock off, Meloetta has a trick up her sleeve(hair?):

Meloetta @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
Tera Type: Fighting/Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 44 SpA / 84 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Tera Blast
- Psyshock

This set alone has a great deal going for it (stat spread is a rough outline, but can be worked with to fit specific needs)
First off! As a normal type, Meloetta gains access to stab on Tera Blast! This allows Meloetta to always hit hard, independent of tera. Psyshock is also a great stab move, as it can slap stuff like Chansey silly for daring to switch in, which actually makes chansey easy set-up fodder (101 HP subs does that).
Now, pre-tera, Meloetta has actually pretty good coverage.

The list of mons that resist (or are immune) to normal + psychic are:
Bisharp, Empoleon, Forretress, Magnezone, Tinkaton

Pretty good eh? This means that against pretty much the entirely of the tier, you really don't have too many mons that you have to use tera to beat.
Now, you've got a cross-roads to follow. Tera Fighting completely flips your coverage to hit all of the previously mentioned mons (and lets you resist dark type moves which could be great behind a sub), and Tera Ground hits almost every mon in the tier.

Almost.
Zarude is your worst enemy if you go tera ground, and it completely curbstomps you. I personally prefer tera fighting as it lets you turn the tables on any dark type attackers that may come your way (like zarude), and honestly isn't that bad on Meloetta, since you do good into psychic + fairy types already.

All of this to say, that Meloetta absolutely thrives when it's against other special attackers. It can absolutely just set up for days against plenty of common special attackers(Heatom in particular does like 22% max w/ overheat), and has the speed + power to be able to come in mid-game to pick up a few KO's. Meloetta uninvested hits 216 speed, which is great as it's able to comfortably outspeed a good chunk of the bulky threats in the metagame.

Various Calcs vs. Common Special Attackers

252+ SpA Enamorus-Therian Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Meloetta: 133-157 (32.9 - 38.8%) -- 5.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

8 SpA Rotom-Heat Overheat vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Meloetta: 111-132 (27.4 - 32.6%) -- 68.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Rotom-Heat Overheat vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Meloetta: 138-163 (34.1 - 40.3%) -- 42% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Gardevoir Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Meloetta: 114-135 (28.2 - 33.4%) -- 91.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Munkidori Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Meloetta: 118-139 (29.2 - 34.4%) -- 99.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Tera Water Basculegion-F Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Meloetta: 279-331 (69 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
While this may seem like "big number = not good", you gotta understand that this is the very most powerful basc could possibly be, and this tiny lil' idol singer takes the hit like a champ

252 SpA Kilowattrel Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Meloetta: 118-139 (29.2 - 34.4%) -- 99.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Raikou Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Meloetta: 102-121 (25.2 - 29.9%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Meloetta: 164-194 (40.5 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Typhlosion-Hisui Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Meloetta: 174-205 (43 - 50.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

And all of these are before Meloetta sets up a CM

The exact same calcs, but Melo has set up a CM

252+ SpA Enamorus-Therian Moonblast vs. +1 252 HP / 84 SpD Meloetta: 88-105 (21.7 - 25.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

8 SpA Rotom-Heat Overheat vs. +1 252 HP / 84 SpD Meloetta: 75-88 (18.5 - 21.7%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Rotom-Heat Overheat vs. +1 252 HP / 84 SpD Meloetta: 93-109 (23 - 26.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Gardevoir Moonblast vs. +1 252 HP / 84 SpD Meloetta: 76-91 (18.8 - 22.5%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Munkidori Sludge Wave vs. +1 252 HP / 84 SpD Meloetta: 79-94 (19.5 - 23.2%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Tera Water Basculegion-F Hydro Pump vs. +1 252 HP / 84 SpD Meloetta: 187-220 (46.2 - 54.4%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Kilowattrel Hurricane vs. +1 252 HP / 84 SpD Meloetta: 78-93 (19.3 - 23%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Raikou Thunderbolt vs. +1 252 HP / 84 SpD Meloetta: 69-82 (17 - 20.2%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Fighting Hoopa Focus Blast vs. +1 252 HP / 84 SpD Meloetta: 165-195 (40.8 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 128 Def Meloetta: 116-137 (28.7 - 33.9%) -- 98.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
funnily enough psyshock ends up doing more damage lol

252 SpA Typhlosion-Hisui Eruption (150 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 84 SpD Meloetta: 117-138 (28.9 - 34.1%) -- 99% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

I recommend that you pair Meloetta with partners that do well into the physical attackers of the tier, and make sure to have hazard control on your team if you use her, as spikes and SR hurt any chance at chip healing. I also would recommend that any EV spreads lean into improving Meloetta's physical bulk, as 128 spD already hits a solid 300-ish with very little investment, and since meloetta already beats other special attackers, anything else is overkill; your main bet is improving physical bulk to be able to pick up KO's easier and take any stray hits you might need to take.

Also sidenote that I felt like I should put in, Meloetta's typing is also pretty unique as her normal typing is actually a great pairing w/ psychic, as both types pair together to negate ghost damage, and makes fighting attacks neutral, leaving dark as the only weakness, which again, gets covered perfectly through tera fighting.


So it was a bit long winded, and super long post, but TLDR:

• Meloetta retains the niche of being a bulky CM wincon that isn't easily replicated by any other mon in the tier
• Meloetta threatens a wide array of the tier, and is a great tera recipient
• Meloetta can switch in during mid-late game and either win the game or take 1-2 KO's reliably, assuming decent play from your end
• Meloetta can invalidate most special attackers in a straight 1v1, and sub either shuts em down completely, or lets you at least scout a bit in a worst-case scenario.

and this isn't all meloetta can do, as her movepool is honestly pretty vast, getting things like t-wave, u-turn, and if you want to cook, relic song

So please, at least consider and try out Meloetta!

Another meloetta enjoyer I see. Sub cm is insane. Try it out. Sub cm is super fat. Super fun and pretty viable mon.

 

[Elec-ant1234]

Another meloetta enjoyer I see. Sub cm is insane. Try it out. Sub cm is super fat. Super fun and pretty viable mon.

i love using meloetta

 

[FlamingoPokeman]

I'll post a better analysis Monday when I have more time and access to a better computer... but I'll throw this out there given my round one games for Winter Seasonal never happened...

Game One: https://pokepast.es/f7dfd9882d2393b7
My idea for this round was to start with a classic rain core of Barraskewda, Basculegion-Female, Politoed and Kilowattrel, with the last two slots being a pivoting Slither Wing and defensive Bellibolt.
Rain is the clear best weather in the tier and the fishies reign supreme as the fastest, hardest hitting mons when boosted. Kilowattrel was more of a pivoting set to play off of Slither Wing, and Politoed and were my defensive backbone with Rest and Slack Off recovery, respectively. My answer to Double Dance Enamorus-Therian was Perish Song on Politoed coupled with Protect stall on Bellibolt.

Game Two: https://pokepast.es/d78248713da123ba
Stall! This team excels at being obnoxious with a combination of Toxic spam on Bellibolt, Gligar and Quagsire, with Will-O-Wisp on Rotom-Heat to help in spots against setup sweepers or offensive powerhouses like Mamoswine.
The objective here is pretty obvious; spam status, switch regularly and win through hazard chip and reliably whittling stuff down. Vileplume can reliably check a lot of offensive mons when coupled with Unaware Quagsire.

Game Three: https://pokepast.es/4abf6415738925d2
More of an offensively oriented balance team, with Stealth Rocks Cobalion establishing hazards and the rest of the team trying to pressure with a combination of immediate power and setup potential. Enamorus-Therian was CM three attacks, Zarude was a Bulk Up / Substitute variant with Knock Off and Drain Punch, and Mamoswine was Life Orb for breaking potential. Basculegion-Female and Munkidori were Choice Scarf and were capable of providing immediate power, pivots or, in the case of Munkidori, a nice Trick option for bulkier teams to hinder a defensive mon.

EDIT: Added pastes for teams :D

 

[PotatOS]

I'm going to be Empoleon's Number One Soldier and advocate for it as a great wall. Awesome defensive typing, access to roost, rocks and a pivoting move in flip turn seems like it could be really good to use.

 

[Ac1D_13]

Started Playing RU recently because I wanted to play something aside from NU and it has been a lot of fun for me thus far. So much fun in fact that I ended up topping the ladder:

Proof of Peak

i got one tie lol

Because of this I think I'm pretty qualified to say what is good in this tier:

I think this thing is so ridiculously broken and should be banned immediately. It's way too easy to get wins with with the CM ID Tera Steel Draining Kiss set and doesn't really provide much else for the tier outside of an annoying cheesy setup sweeper.


I think both are pretty good but not broken. They are very strong but against offensive teams they can struggle due to being slow which means they don't get many entry points. In the case of Crawdaunt it doesn't even have good bulk so it rarely ever hits the field but when it does it leaves a massive hole in the opposing team. They reward you well for getting them in safely, but that can be quite tough to do.


Choice Scarf is a very effective revenge killer and SD is a super nice cleaner. I think it's very good but not sure if it's broken as it's never really felt overbearing in any games that I've played.


Love this guy, very reliable Stealth Rock user who can take hits well and dish them out nicely too. Oftentimes when I use it, people treat it like a passive blob and then it SDs and they start panicking. Tera also helps this guy tons.


Nice offensive pieces that make solid progress. Regenerator Mienshao is super good between its pivoting and utility in Knock Off and Flygon is one of the best scarfers in the tier.


Probably the best utility mons around. Cyclizar is insane compression in one slot, Vaporeon is an amazing wish passer and Tinkaton has the most broken typing in the universe.

Overall super fun tier, I look forward to playing more and see how it develops.

 

[Feliburn]

A few mons I'd like to talk about.


I've been talking about this in the RU discord for a bit, and I know a lot of people hate this mon, but Scream Tail happens to have a lot of winning matchups vs the stronger hitters in the tier. I've been using a spread that lets me outspeed Zarude while still living 2 Power Whips, allowing me to always have the option to pass a Wish, hit it for super effective damage (albeit not too strong), or Encore the Swords Dance. It's also tanky enough to live any hit from Conkeldurr, and threaten to 2HKO as well. I know it's not a strong progress maker but it works at disrupting opposing breakers. It's also a good mon against Rain teams, as you can take a lot of hits and stall rain turns with Wish + Protect. The meta also has seen the rise of mons like Chesnaught, and Cyclizar is as popular as ever, making it easier to get it in and do its thing.

Here's a replay from my latest seasonal game. While not perfect, you can see how much Scream Tail helped me keep Zarude & Bisharp in check.


Speaking of it, I've been loving Chesnaught a lot. Has good matchup into Zarude teams, has Spikes, a strong hitting Body Press & reliable recovery. The biggest downside is how much of a bad matchup it has against Enamorus, but you can also threaten it with a Knock Off on the switch if you opt for that move. It's also tanky enough to not lose against Mamoswine 1v1 if you have enough HP. It simply matches well against the tier at the moment.


I still want to encourage people to try Registeel more. The Iron Defense + Body Press combination matches so well against the tier. All our bigger breakers are physical attackers (Conkeldurr, Mamoswine, Zarude, Mimikyu, Revavroom, Barraskewda, Bisharp, Crawdaunt, etc). Getting one free set up means you can actually come on top against these mons (you'd need Heavy Slam/Iron Head for Mimikyu). The downside is that you can't really make progress like you used to with this mon, as you no longer have Toxic or Seismic Toss. I do believe the presence Iron Press has right now should be enough to try this mon more, and you can also have the Steel type coverage for Enamorus.


I agree with the above post about this mon. But I also want to add that you can slot in Megahorn for coverage against Zarude to limit the switchins, altho Stone Edge is basically a 2HKO, so this'd be more of a surprice factor if your team is too weak against it.


There are a lot of other mons that fill in cool niches that are worth using, or are simply not mentioned enough, Entei being one of them. While it's hard to build with it, our Sacred Fire answers are not the best (besides Slowbro), and I feel like there's a lot of potential for teams to break easily while using this mon. Trailblaze is funny against Rhyperior or Quagsire, but you are burning both half the time. Extremespeed is also very clutch against offense, more specifically picking up KOs on Barraskewda (guaranteeing a OHKO if you Tera Normal). I haven't been able to build anything I like with it yet, but it feels really solid to use.

 

[BolTingBlazie]

Okay now that sleep is banned, is definitely gonna take a hit considering Sleep really helped it brute force past things due to the extra turns it provided for setting up victory dances.

 

[Sneakyplanner]

Okay now that sleep is banned, is definitely gonna take a hit considering Sleep really helped it brute force past things due to the extra turns it provided for setting up victory dances.

It only really ran sleep powder on sun teams, and sun teams are always unoptimal. Hiligant needs all the coverage it can get, two attacks just won't cut it even on tera ghost sets.

 

[Elec-ant1234]

Toedscruel has been assassinated.
Rip to the worst spore user there ever was. He really didn’t need to pay for Darkrai and Amoonguss’s crimes
On another note, Cyclizar has lost a competitor

 

[Sneakyplanner]

Toedscruel has been assassinated.
Rip to the worst spore user there ever was. He really didn’t need to pay for Darkrai and Amoonguss’s crimes
On another note, Cyclizar has lost a competitor

Don't implicate amoongus in any crimes. The only criminals here are Darkrai and the OU council.

 

[Miyami~~~]

So! OU just made probably the single worst tiering decision this side of BW. And we just have to put up with it until they do the right thing and backpedal or we can break transitivity again (please let us do this). Let's talk about how it affects the tier:


so OU's Ridiculous New Rule does not apply to Effect Spore, which means even though this would occasionally run Sleep Powder and now can't do that, the downside of that is outweighed by the fact that this is now the only reasonably viable Pokemon in RU that can cause sleep, a whole 11% of the time! Due to sleep "clause" now ignoring effect spore entirely, if you get lucky enough you can sleep multiple things without consequence, so slap a rocky helmet on this and switch it into every contact move in the tier!

+
this is just kind of a spot to talk about Yawn, which is actually a really frustrating loss on a gameplay level for slower, defensive Pokemon to be able to force switches on their own. I think Slowbro is the main thing that runs this, but a lot of other things could, and we really do lose a lot of set variety for this change. I guess we can start pivoting with vileplume?


this is the thing that got sleep scapegoated in OU, offensive setup mons clicking sleep moves. You may notice we do not have Darkrai and Iron Valiant in RU, and we don't really have anything super good that consistently runs it anyways since hilligant is about as likely to have Sleep Powder as it is to not, so the end result is some mid tier mons getting nuked for reasons outside of our control. I guess hilligant has less set variety now? yay?


If you think about it, a full para is exactly like sleep, so logically that's what's gonna be the next big thing, right? Sleep wasn't actually a relevant fixture of offensive Pokemon in between OU and PU so I don't expect para leads + setup spam to be broken or anyways but I feel the need to point out that paralysis does get slightly better after this, I guess?

edit: thought they banned moves with a secondary sleep chance too, the posts below me are right

 

[skippergamez]

the only way to access this form is using a move with a 10% chance of putting the opponent to sleep, so Meloetta-P is now completely unusable outside of ubers! And nobody will miss it I just thought this was a funny way to end the post

You can still use relic song? blind anger ig

 

[Bruxish supremacy]

the only way to access this form is using a move with a 10% chance of putting the opponent to sleep, so Meloetta-P is now completely unusable outside of ubers! And nobody will miss it I just thought this was a funny way to end the post

Serene grace boosts it to 20%. The most consistent sleeper rn is a meloetta. Also relic song is legal.

 

[Moyashi]

So! OU just made probably the single worst tiering decision this side of BW. And we just have to put up with it until they do the right thing and backpedal or we can break transitivity again (please let us do this). Let's talk about how it affects the tier:

This decision is one people were generally in support of. This is nothing like bad decisions made during the bw era.

+
this is just kind of a spot to talk about Yawn, which is actually a really frustrating loss on a gameplay level for slower, defensive Pokemon to be able to force switches on their own. I think Slowbro is the main thing that runs this, but a lot of other things could, and we really do lose a lot of set variety for this change. I guess we can start pivoting with vileplume?

Yawn in a game with no sleep clause would just be degenerate and unbalanced. Plenty of people in the ou thread mentioned why, but with no restriction on sleep yawn users could just spam it and force switches and rack up hazard chip repeatedly or just collect multiple sleeps due to pressure.

we really do lose a lot of set variety for this change

You seem to care more about the loss of sleep rather than actual set variety. Seeing as you keep harping on it. But good riddance. Sleep was and is unbalanced and isn’t seriously gonna be missed.

 

[FlamingoPokeman]

Unfortunately, with the tier changing in just a few days time, this team is going to be outdated; however, I'd like to share an interpretation of Stall I've had success with recently in the current iteration of the tier (peaked #3 on ladder and won Game 1 of RU Winter Seasonal Round 4).

- - - - - ​

This team is great into most types of team structures and really takes advantage of a physically-oriented meta with four dedicated physical walls - bellibolt, chesnaught, quagsire and slowbro can easily switch around and recover freely into a lot of teams while chansey and cyclizar provide their typical utility roles in hazard setting cleric and hazard removing knock-pivot, respectively.
To avoid writing an overly in-depth analysis for a team about to become obsolete, I'll opt to provide replays instead so you can see how I managed this team and ultimately got Stall to be (somewhat) good in this current meta full of breakers and setup sweepers:

Game 1 (Round 4 Winter Seasonal)
Game 2 (Ladder Game against Rain)
Game 3 (High Ladder Game against BO)
Game 4 (Ladder Game against Stall)
Game 5 (Ladder Game against unique HO)
Game 6 (Ladder Game against Rain)

 

[grizord]

UU TO RU
Hawlucha moved from UU to RUBL
Iron Leaves moved from UU to RUBL
Polteageist moved from UU to RUBL
Araquanid moved from UU to RU
Armarouge moved from UU to RU
Blastoise moved from UU to RU
Blissey moved from UU to RU
Breloom moved from UU to RU
Comfey moved from UU to RU
Cresselia moved from UU to RU
Donphan moved from UU to RU
Feraligatr moved from UU to RU
Gallade moved from UU to RU
Galvantula moved from UU to RU
Gastrodon moved from UU to RU
Gengar moved from UU to RU
Hippowdon moved from UU to RU
Hydreigon moved from UU to RU
Incineroar moved from UU to RU
Indeedee moved from UU to RU
Infernape moved from UU to RU
Kingdra moved from UU to RU
Kleavor moved from UU to RU
Manaphy moved from UU to RU
Maushold moved from UU to RU
Minior moved from UU to RU
Moltres moved from UU to RU
Necrozma moved from UU to RU
Okidogi moved from UU to RU
Porygon-Z moved from UU to RU
Reuniclus moved from UU to RU
Rotom-Wash moved from UU to RU
Salamence moved from UU to RU
Slowking moved from UU to RU
Smeargle moved from UU to RU
Suicune moved from UU to RU
Swampert moved from UU to RU
Tentacruel moved from UU to RU
Thundurus-Therian moved from UU to RU
Venusaur moved from UU to RU
Volcanion moved from UU to RU
Zapdos-Galar moved from UU to RU

RISE TO RU
Politoed moved from NUBL to RU
Terrakion moved from NUBL to RU
Overqwil moved from NU to RU

DOWN TO NU
Basculegion moved from RU to NU
Decidueye-Hisui moved from RU to NU
Electivire moved from RU to NU
Exeggutor-Alola moved from RU to NU
Golurk moved from RU to NU
Grimmsnarl moved from RU to NU
Hitmonlee moved from RU to NU
Lilligant-Hisui moved from RU to NU
Lucario moved from RU to NU
Pawmot moved from RU to NU
Rampardos moved from RU to NU
Whimsicott moved from RU to NU

 

[Feliburn]

Another day, another shift.

Here's what we got:

Here's what we lost:

Feel free to discuss these new and impactful tier shifts.

 

[grizord]

literally UU lol

Donphan will rise to UU again next month lol

Rain taking a hit losing Barr but getting Manaphy, Tent, Thundurus, Gator, R-Wash, Toise, Kingdra LOL

Also, ne reason to let anything in BL right now, yes, they probably remain broken but we have new big boys to try.

 

[658Greninja]

Hydreigon being RU now makes me sad

 

[somethingaboutsomething]

welp Gengar's RU now so i guess i'll be packing my bags, hello new home.

 

[Elec-ant1234]

I've got an idea, and hear me out. Throughout all of the many, MANY pokemon that dropped, one caught my eye. See, I used to play snow teams CONSTANTLY and gave it up a long time pre-DLC1. The biggest issue you see, if not the abusers, but the setter. Cetitan can absolutely smash teams, but the weak link is Abomasnow (PU for a reason). However, new to RU, is Slowking, with access to Chilly Reception. I'll be testing out teams w/ this core, and see what semi-stall nonsense I can cook up. Not sure if I'll go sheer force lorb on cetitan or sitrus belly drum + icy rock, but I'll at least try it out and see if we can get cetitan on it's second ever survey!

 

[Ellicrum]

​

Will all RUBL be released as a result of these important tier shifts? It's very likely that these will be the last major changes in the tier for the rest of this generation. And before starting a burst of quickbans, it might be better to do this with all the potentially playable Pokémon in the format.

 

[Ellicrum]

I don't think releasing more brokens is the solution to checking the new brokens, but a few of these could reasonably be released - isn't much worse than other setup sweepers available and doesn't feel too broken... is literally just , which is legal for now...

As I didn't say in my first post, I also don't believe in the argument of brokens checking brokens. It was simply a matter of mentioning here that a complete reboot of banlists after such important tier shifts is an almost systematized procedure. But I suppose that a too tight tournament schedule also comes into the equation.