SV UU Metagame Discussion - Teal Mask Edition

[dingbat]

from what i've seen from the return of iron hands so far, i think it's in a situation similar to aegislash last generation where it would have a bunch of different sets it could run to effectively pick its checks and counters, but there would always be those one or two of those sets that would perform excellently based on metagame trends. while iron hands will never be as versatile as aegis was moveset-wise, tera is a huge part of its development, and will inevitably be an argument either for or against its banning within the uusd timeframe.

heatran will be very centralizing for however long it stays here for, that mon is a big threat and should not be sold short for what it does.

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

Why am I running flame body (ive yet to see other players do it, so assuming im first one, im going to make a post on it ). What does flame body heatran do?

Well have you ever faced that annoying asf volt turn team with pokemon such as Scizor spamming u-turn, lokix clicking first impression, meow clicking u-turn, zapdos-g brave bird, etc. These are a lot of things you can have heatran do which they wont expect... and you can easily punish them and get away with the game knowing that lokix is not as big of a threat as it wouldve been. This is something that I appreciate in flame body that other things dont really provide... we lost helmet chomp and we need a sub

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1971378553-5841k0j3yr27lxfcbyytx0f8pror2lgpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1971394974-zumzt8dws2shcgoruvesz3hj4k0rihspw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1971407124-u2lldkynkc3t17vfapsiy56ygv5jysepw

These replays show that heatran with its amazing utility can also be a great punisher of u-turn bots who think they can get away with spamming it and just pivot in and out of the battle...

Flash Fire I believe is team specific where you want it to deal with moltres or magma storm 50/50 but flame body in my opinion is superior. While these are only 2 replays it still shows what flame body heatran can do and contribute a lot against volt turn teams

Heatran

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Tera Blast
- Taunt

 

[carbonlifeform]

I spent way too much time the yesterday and earlier today mucking around with a truly terrible Manual Terrain setting Iron Treads set. I kept at it way too long mostly because it was just way too fun ruining folks' plans by clicking Volt Turn and watching their Pelipper lead die or their Alomomola lose 60%+ of its health.

Eventually I realized: "hey, I could just be running Specs". And y'all, after laddering up to 1600 with a half-baked VoltTurn Offense team, I'm here to say: Specs Treads might not be terrible.

@
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Dragon / Flying / Steel / Electric
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Earth Power
- Flash Cannon
- Volt Switch
- Rapid Spin / Knock Off / Stealth Rock / Tera Blast, I guess?

To be very clear: this is not a breaker. This is not a cleaner. It's a pivot. Now, the question you probably are (or should be) asking is: Why on earth would you use this instead of Sandy Shocks? And I've got four reasons for you:

The first is bulk. Treads has a pretty fantastic typing and serious physical bulk. As part of a VoltTurn core, there are a lot more things you can bring it in against to chip, KO, or pivot out.

The second is surprise. Nobody is going to leave their `mola or Tornadus in on Shocks, much less their Gyarados or Pelipper. Treads? Why wouldn't you leave your Alomomola in on Treads? Worst case, it deals less damage than you can regenerate off. But Specs Treads?

252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Treads Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Alomomola: 288-340 (53.9 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You can pretty freely lead Specs Treads against Rain without the other player expecting a Volt Switch that handily KOs Pelipper. If they lead Treads, you KO with Earth Power while they either get up rocks or fail to KO you with EQ. It also mucks with counterplay, since you no longer fear Wisp. Dirge and Gweezing can't just Wisp you and then laugh at your futile attempts to KO. You laugh in their faces instead.

The third is versatility. Instead of having hazards as your only utility option, you can run knock or spin instead (Spin has been my go-to for roll compression).

The fourth is just because `mons is supposed to be fun.

Tera type is flexible. Tera Electric makes volt switch that much stronger, but is the worst for pivoting. Dragon and Flying each turn two of your weaknesses into a resist while being neutral to the other two, while Steel is just a good type, even if it doesn't muck with any weaknesses. I tend to prefer Dragon because it helps you out against Fire and Water types that you want to revenge/pivot on offensively while also retaining a resist to Electric attacks. Grass with Tera Blast could also be an option if you really just want to smash Washtom's smug little face in.

A few replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1971517209
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1971440746
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1971404793 (Crawdaunt dies >50% of the time even without Tera Electric here)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1971347220

 

[Jonbot]

How is everyone finding the metagame? Any mons people are struggling with? Any interesting sets I can steal?

I'm finding it very fun after the garg ban but there was talk of iron hands being too much and heatran being overbearing despite finding them fine myself.

 

[carbonlifeform]

Nearly three days between comments? I definitely did not expect Specs Treads to be the nail in the coffin for the meta. JKs, I know that it's the Garg ban stabilizing things and leaving us without inane arguments about the viability of Cloak to keep us going on slow days. That said, I want to quickly revisit an earlier post about Braviary-H with some replays demonstrating its niche -- which I think has only gotten better with Garg gone.

To recap, here's the set and a reminder of what it does:
Braviary-Hisui @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Roost
- Psychic
- Air Slash | Hurricane

(Note that I've taken to preferring Air Slash over Hurricane after literally missing 12 Hurricanes in a row one day. Hurricane may nab some extra KOs and deal more damage on average in the long run, but the cost in sanity is absolutely not worth it for me).

Basically, Brav excels at not just KOing fat `mons but potentially turning them into absolute liabilities for the other team.

In this replay, Chesnaught is just an open invitation to bring in Brav, and once Drei is gone, that basically means game over.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1972322809

This replay isn't as drastic, but Moltres is a similarly easy entry point that basically means something is getting slammed:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1972013915

This replay shows how Brav's bulk is just sufficient enough to stand its ground against pretty much any one non-SE, non-STAB attack to threaten a KO (in this case, clicking Air Slash into Noivern with full confidence that even if they stay in, Hurricane or Draco damage won't be enough to stop Brav from coming back in later):
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1972826250-sx6xmnfl2jgzjmu4yt15znddcnzntg3pw

Finally, in this replay, Brav-H's raw firepower helps me come back from a terrible misplay on Turn 30, where I let Hands get a free turn instead of baiting the tera and clicking Volt Switch. Even after the Tera, I know that I just need to get Hands down to ~60% to have a shot at the win.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1972080743

As you can see from these replays, Brav-H really really likes VoltTurn support to get free entry and get a sub up or an attack off. Alomomola in particular is a fantastic partner between being slow pivot, top tier knock off absorber, and offering Wish support to help make up for the lack of Boots (though I don't think that made it into any of these replays). Honeslty, Brav-H appreciates Alomomola so much that I would probably consider it unviable if OU claims `Mola in the next shifts. 'Mola also really amplifies the synergy between Brav-H and Lokix as more of an anti-offense `mon who can clean up faster threats that Brav may not quite finish off on a switch while Brav breaks down the defensive threats that like to wear down Lokix over time.

 

[Melt Gibson]

Nearly three days between comments? I definitely did not expect Specs Treads to be the nail in the coffin for the meta. JKs, I know that it's the Garg ban stabilizing things and leaving us without inane arguments about the viability of Cloak to keep us going on slow days. That said, I want to quickly revisit an earlier post about Braviary-H with some replays demonstrating its niche -- which I think has only gotten better with Garg gone.

To recap, here's the set and a reminder of what it does:
Braviary-Hisui @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Roost
- Psychic
- Air Slash | Hurricane

(Note that I've taken to preferring Air Slash over Hurricane after literally missing 12 Hurricanes in a row one day. Hurricane may nab some extra KOs and deal more damage on average in the long run, but the cost in sanity is absolutely not worth it for me).

Basically, Brav excels at not just KOing fat `mons but potentially turning them into absolute liabilities for the other team.

In this replay, Chesnaught is just an open invitation to bring in Brav, and once Drei is gone, that basically means game over.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1972322809

This replay isn't as drastic, but Moltres is a similarly easy entry point that basically means something is getting slammed:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1972013915

This replay shows how Brav's bulk is just sufficient enough to stand its ground against pretty much any one non-SE, non-STAB attack to threaten a KO (in this case, clicking Air Slash into Noivern with full confidence that even if they stay in, Hurricane or Draco damage won't be enough to stop Brav from coming back in later):
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1972826250-sx6xmnfl2jgzjmu4yt15znddcnzntg3pw

Finally, in this replay, Brav-H's raw firepower helps me come back from a terrible misplay on Turn 30, where I let Hands get a free turn instead of baiting the tera and clicking Volt Switch. Even after the Tera, I know that I just need to get Hands down to ~60% to have a shot at the win.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1972080743

As you can see from these replays, Brav-H really really likes VoltTurn support to get free entry and get a sub up or an attack off. Alomomola in particular is a fantastic partner between being slow pivot, top tier knock off absorber, and offering Wish support to help make up for the lack of Boots (though I don't think that made it into any of these replays). Honeslty, Brav-H appreciates Alomomola so much that I would probably consider it unviable if OU claims `Mola in the next shifts. 'Mola also really amplifies the synergy between Brav-H and Lokix as more of an anti-offense `mon who can clean up faster threats that Brav may not quite finish off on a switch while Brav breaks down the defensive threats that like to wear down Lokix over time.

between this and the specs treads post, you should seriously consider a career as a used car salesman /s

to keep this from being a joke post/one liner: i think people have been really sleeping on certain rain mons! most notably, moltres and ludicolo. moltres provides a defensive answer to threats like lokix and scizor while also having access to hurricane and weather ball, making it still a potent offensive threat in rain. ludicolo functions largely the same as other special rain abusers like golduck and basculegion-f, life orb weather ball in rain does HUGE numbers, and grass STAB allows you to bulldoze through common rain checks like the slowtwins and gastrodon (thanks to goro for putting me on to this one). rain as an archetype now feels like it has a lot more depth in terms of the support and abusers you're able to pack onto it, and for once i'm actually rather excited to see how it develops in this meta :)

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

CB wing is an interesting pokemon in my opinon, this uses the suprise factor of how nuclear CB wing can be. Against teams that rely on frail fighting resists or pure bulk often struggle as alomomola is even 2hko'ed by CB tera fighting CC and shows that it isnt safe either. With hazards this process is even easier as yo ucan 2hko amoonguss after rocks pretty easily

252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Fighting Slither Wing Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 199-235 (46 - 54.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Yes this pokemon is prediction reliant sometimes, yes weezing-g wants me to die inside, yes protect and ghosts exist to scout but that is what teammates are for. Im not advocating for "CB wing new meta" but Its a great option I see

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1971407124-u2lldkynkc3t17vfapsiy56ygv5jysepw CB wing vs bulky mons thinking they are fighting resists

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1971394974-zumzt8dws2shcgoruvesz3hj4k0rihspw CB wing also clicked buttons with tera fighting

CB WING

Slither Wing @ Choice Band
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- First Impression
- Close Combat
- U-turn
- Earthquake / Zen Headbutt (can be used for weezing-g, amoonguss, but makes u weaker to dirge) / Wild Charge (can be used for moltres but cc with tera hits hard enough)

 

[cosmogii]

has anyone found a niche for chandelure? one of my favorite mons, would be a shame to see it go unused and unloved in this meta.

 

[Twilight]

has anyone found a niche for chandelure? one of my favorite mons, would be a shame to see it go unused and unloved in this meta.

Chandelure @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest / Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Shadow Ball
- Flamethrower
- Substitute

I used this for a bit and had decent success with it. Essentially you wall Heatran and get to setup Substitute or CM. It did well into some bulkier teams as stuff like Clodsire couldn't punish you. Tera Fairy felt like the best choice to beat Mandi and non-NP Hydreigon + prevent Meow and Weavile revenging. You could run Tera Blast in the last slot to just OHKO Hydra on the switch and deal with quaq at +1 i guess. AV Hoopa is the only other thing i can really think of that it also helps with.

Besides from this you can use Specs. Nothing really switches into Specs Chandy well but it requires a lot of support. You need removal, pivots to get it in easily, and hazards. You could use Scarf but you'll have to run strong priority or a good backbone alongside it because it isn't capable or revenging anything after a boost.

Chandelure definitely has a niche but it isn't meta defining by any means. The Speed tier is the biggest thing holding it back. Hope this helps.

 

[cosmogii]

Chandelure @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest / Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Shadow Ball
- Flamethrower
- Substitute

Chandelure definitely has a niche but it isn't meta defining by any means. The Speed tier is the biggest thing holding it back. Hope this helps.

i'll see if i can make use of this, if not i might just revert back to my glimmet + scarf chandelure team lol
thank you so much!!!

 

[carbonlifeform]

between this and the specs treads post, you should seriously consider a career as a used car salesman /s

You laugh, but I've gotten really good results with both sets and have had a lot of fun running them together! I'm moving on to mess with other stuff that will probably be terrible and tilt me down to <1300, but I just posted the team I've been running (peaked at 1670 ELO) in the Bazaar if anybody wants to give it a shot.

 

[AgentSqueak]

How are people dealing with Iron Hands? Wisp rotom-w is the best check I can think of, but it has trouble switching in to CC safely, and while non-AV variants can definitely be taken down by strong enough special attackers if you guess wrong that thing just owns. There's nothing that feels like it counters all its sets.

 

[Eeveeto]

How are people dealing with Iron Hands? Wisp rotom-w is the best check I can think of, but it has trouble switching in to CC safely, and while non-AV variants can definitely be taken down by strong enough special attackers if you guess wrong that thing just owns. There's nothing that feels like it counters all its sets.

Without Ice Punch, Sinitcha is very solid vs Hands, just spamming Matcha Gotcha and Strength Sap until it burns. Skeledirge fully walls EQ less versions, if Tera Fairy, even those. Quagsire is full counter. Scream Tail takes everything unboosted and locks with Encore if Hands uses SD
Offense has is way easier than balance and defense though, just keep offensive pressure and use shit like Sandy Shocks or Sylveon, they are not long term answers, but do switch once or twice and force Hands out.

Personally I don't see anything banworthy at the moment. Heatran might be in the future when 25673 Tera sets appear, but at the moment he is underexplored.

 

[Twilight]

How are people dealing with Iron Hands? Wisp rotom-w is the best check I can think of, but it has trouble switching in to CC safely, and while non-AV variants can definitely be taken down by strong enough special attackers if you guess wrong that thing just owns. There's nothing that feels like it counters all its sets.

I don't think there is a counter to every Iron Hands and it is just something you have to accept. Iron Hands is a Pokemon that can pick and choose what it wants to break more easily through its move and item combination, which is only possible because of how bulky it is alongside tera.

Unaware

Iron Hands struggles to deal with Skeledirge without having tera Fire + EQ, which I would say is probably not as common as its alternative options. Every other variant Skele beats because Torch Song goes through Substitute and Hands doesn't hit it hard enough unboosted. Wisp isn't as common but if running it you can cripple Hands too. Clodsire resists both STABs so Hands is reliant on Ice Punch or Tera Blast to get through it. However, if it is Substitute then you can't put it on a timer and if it is also tera Flying then it walls you without some tech.

Reliable into most sets

I would say all of these are fairly good into Hands and either force the tera or trade decently with it whether it be through attacking or status. Of course with the right set Hands can honestly beat them. E.g. Substitute or Lum can deal with Gweezing and if using Ice Punch you can deal with Amoonguss. Having one of these on your team alongside enough partners to offensively pressure it would be enough though. In most cases, you can force the tera and play around it then.

Washtom can only status Hands and if you attempt to send it in as they click Substitute or they are Lum it will be rough. It's an okay response depending on how much is revealed about the set. Thundurus-T is decent into Hands to some extent, it can help pivot around it alongside a better defensive partner. You do need Psychic or tera to be much of a threat to it.

Tera
Defensive tera is one of your best friends vs Hands especially if it can deny or mitigate how much recovery it can get with Drain Punch. If you do this and keep it low enough then you can at least revenge it a bit more easily. An example of this would be Mandibuzz with tera + Foul Play you can keep it very low.

Offensive Pressure

Some examples of things that offensively threaten it and either force the tera. You can't send them in mindlessly into Hands of course but they do enough damage to threaten it.

Aside from that hazards can help rack up chip in conjunction with an answer that limits Drain healing. I hope this helps you out.

 

[Nobu]

How are people dealing with Iron Hands? Wisp rotom-w is the best check I can think of, but it has trouble switching in to CC safely, and while non-AV variants can definitely be taken down by strong enough special attackers if you guess wrong that thing just owns. There's nothing that feels like it counters all its sets.

I don't really thing there is a one-set-fits-all counter; Iron Hands has too many options. But I also don't think there's any set that can completely run away with the game, since each set has its own limitations, and its low speed makes them all vulnerable to revenge killing. It's never going to have perfect coverage, and the fact that most sets have to rely on drain punch for recovery limits it's survivability. This is doubly true if the opponent still has tera; Heatran or Iron Treads losing the fighting weakness and throwing off a ground move can often be enough.

Can't do any calcs right now, but off the top of my head here's some mons with good matchups into several sets:
Tornadus-T can set up on any set without ice punch, being immune to electric/ground and resisting fighting
As you mentioned, rotom deals with it well, and burn in general crippled non lum berry sets. And if the set runs DP and not CC, rotom should be able to get one off no problem (if only it still has pain split...) If it's a set that gives up electric stab for coverage, bulky waters in general get a lot better.
Levitate Weezing-G is immune to EQ, resists fighting, and non-stab ice punch shouldn't do too much to it. It also has clear smog if you're worried about SD sets, and access to WoW and toxic. Again, I can't do calcs right now, but I'm struggling to think of ways for most IH sets to deal with Dubya G here.

 

[Welcome to mars]

Skeledirge is only good tier now , its 100% falling to ru after the second dlc

 

[carbonlifeform]

How are people dealing with Iron Hands? Wisp rotom-w is the best check I can think of, but it has trouble switching in to CC safely, and while non-AV variants can definitely be taken down by strong enough special attackers if you guess wrong that thing just owns. There's nothing that feels like it counters all its sets.

Others have covered this pretty well, but I thought I'd throw in my own two cents as somebody who plays UU almost exclusively because of Hands.

In a weird day, Iron Hands is a bit like Valiant in OU: It's way more dangerous if you let it dictate the pace of play. If you stand your ground to pressure it while it reveals its set, you're in a much better place because no `mon or team does particularly well into an unknown, +2 Hands at 100% health.

Honestly, the best thing you can do is try to force it in with offensive pressure with a `mon that it checks well (Hydreigon comes to mind) so that it's starting from <100 and giving you some information about its set in the process. From there, 'mons like Helmet Mola, PhysDef Slowking, Moltres, or Eject Button Amoonguss are good at limiting its Drain Punch recovery while pivoting into something that can handle it better.

If you're running a more defensive team and if it gained free entry into the `mon you currently have out, assume that it's kitted to try and get a free turn off of that `mon. Did it come in on Amoonguss? It's probably gonna Sub into your Spore. Did it come in on Treads? It's probably gonna click Tera Flying. Did it come in on Washtom? It's probably Lum.

On all types of teams, Encore and Trick are your friends.

Finally, beware of fake checks. Thundurus-T, for instance, is cleanly 2HKOd by +2 Drain Punch (and recovers enough to avoid a 2HKO from Psychic on non-NP sets). If that's your best option for weakening it to be taken down by something else, then it's your best option, but know that Thundy is probably gonna die. Sinistcha relies on Tera and/or the Hands player not knowing the MU if Hands as Ice Punch, since it just needs to avoid the Matcha Gotcha burn while it boosts through Strength Sap. Washtom needs to pivot out ASAP if it gets a Wisp off or else you're just inviting Hands to shrug off the burn by boosting to +6 and god help you if Hydro Miss, well, misses.

Iron Hands is definitely menacing, but it's also pretty boom or bust as wincon. There's a good reason it dropped way below Dogi in usage between weeks one and two of UUSD, and I'd highly recommend watching some tournament replays to see how folks play around it there.

 

[Welcome to mars]

Alright so I played quite a lot during the last 48h, and overall I think the tier has more major issues that will be adressed later on this post. Overall it's really tough to know how things will be in a few weeks because there is some key threats which are omega broken or beyond cringe and they just warp the whole metagame around them. I firmly believe there is many Pokémon with good potential but they just can't shine among the broken ones.

Garchomp @ Loaded Dice / Leftovers / Lum Berry / Life Orb
Ability: Rough Skin
Tera Type: Steel / Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Scale Shot / Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Iron Head / Tera Blast / Substitute / Stealth Rock

Let's be honest, Garchomp is just too good at what it does. It's not as OP as I would have thought but it's still incredible. Swords Dance Garchomp is frankly insane as a Pokémon and even tho it's speed tier isn't perfect (because we have so many faster threats), it's insane how it can smash threw teams / forces Tera super early into the game. Even regular Swords Dance Garchomp can run a ton of variants and this is even worst when you take Garchomp as a whole. Like.. Lead Garchomp with Dragon Tail and Rocky Helmet is 100% worth it because you fuck over Rapid Spin user with Rough Skin + Rocky Helmet and because Defog is basically a mirage on the tier (we have like 2-3 Pokémon which can really use it). I've been playing LO Mixed Chomp as a Lead too and it works too..even Choice Scarf has it's niche. I trully think this Pokémon is way too good overall and shouldn't stay too long in the tier.

I'm beyong shocked no one is complaining that much about Garganacl. This Pokémon is stupid, because Salt Cure is the cringest move which was ever made by Gamefreak. For real, Curse Garganacl invalidates almost on its own a shit ton of balanced teams which have to rely on Covert Cloak to not be 6-0ed by it. It just too bulky with too many Tera types option, it handles so many threats with ease it's really fucking disgusting. You can't even cripple that bastard with status this is so dumb, it has a built in Ghost-type resist too, making it an insane check to Skeledirge but also Ceruledge with Tera Water. I really hate that Pokémon (even tho I'm using it). Like for real this thing being considered only "pesky" is absurd imo as it invalidated a lot of defensive Pokémon much like insane breakers we banned in the past. I don't think this is something healthy for the tier and a path we should pick for the future of the tier. Just fuck that mon, period.

While I don't know if Kommo-o is too good for being banned right now. I don't see a world where it will stay in UU. Kommo-o is just too versatile overall and can basically do anything. Stealth Rock ? Check. SD or DD variants ? Check. Clangerous Soul on physical or special set ? Check. Sub Belly Drum set ? Check. Like even bulky variant with Iron Defense + Body Press are legit. I've been messing with what I called the KoMoute-O and I swear much like in SS when I was spamming Screens offenses, it's still insane. You can setup on so many Pokémon and just abuse Clangerous Soul behind your Substitute it's hilarious to see. Paired with the right Tera, Kommo-o is able to handle a shit load of stuff. Definitively something to keep in mind in the future.

Is rain too much..mhhhh let's see the Pokémon which can abuse it shall we ?

Water-types :

Pivot / defensive enjoyers of the Rain :

Rain teams can run effectively many variants and all of them are stacking abusers which are able to break for each others. You have a check to a Water-types ? Well you can maybe check one BUT can you check three ?! Like for real, we have a few Wave Crash Swift Swim abusers and on the other hand things such as Azumarill or Crawdaunt which are nuking af. On the other hand, special Swift Swim users are really effective to remove most Water-type resistances thanks to their coverage. And if this wasn't enough there is a shit ton of Pokémon that enjoy Rain thanks to their typing (Grass/Steel-types) and also Thunder/Hurricane spammer..I'm not sure if it's too good right now, but like before, is this healthy and is this what we want the tier to be ? Frankly not sure on that one.

That's all for me. Too lazy to talk too much. I think there is other things which may be problematic such as Iron Hands, Ceruledge or Quaquaval. It's good to see old staples being still great such as Iron Treads, Scizor or Tornadus-T (insane right now with its Nasty Plot/Taunt variants). It's also great that we have new defensive backbones for bulkier archetypes. Things like Sinistcha, Rotom-Wash, Weezing-Galar or Clodsire feels great, even Heatran doesn't seems too bad for real and may be a good thing for the tier as a good way to stallbreak. Like I said in the introduction of that post I also feel like some things such as Mamoswine, Ogerpon, Mienshao or Okidogi will be great once all the broken/unhealthy shits are gone.

swords dance swift swim overqwil is menace in rain too, not banworthy buts underrated

 

[UnusualBoy]

What do we think about Gengar right now? I know he gained some competition and checks/counters with this DLC, what its best set right now? I want to try it out.

 

[GULLY]

Alomomola @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 160 HP / 96 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Mirror Coat
- Wish
- Flip Turn
- Protect

Moltres @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 248 Def / 12 Spe
Bold Nature
- Flamethrower
- Hurricane
- U-turn
- Roost

Hoopa-Unbound @ Assault Vest
Ability: Magician
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 248 HP / 84 Atk / 176 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Knock Off
- Psychic
- Drain Punch
- Gunk Shot

This is a very interesting core. Spdef Alo is a problem rn, it can eat a great deal of hits from common mons and hit back with mirror coat. I think that is kinda busted, G-Molt Hydrei and Hoopa are the only special attackers that are immune to mirror coat therefore the only ones that dont get murdered by it. Plenty of mons can use it for set up fodder which keeps it balanced.
Moltres has been getting alot of usage from me recently. I've tried it on rain (which its very good on try it with the above set) as well as other teams. Its ability to punish physical attackers/ pivots with flame body as well as pivot it self is huge. It has very respectable sp atk even unboosted so it can beat a great deal of physical attackers 1v1.
I've been saying AV-Hoopa was good for a while, prior to the dlc etc. There are big gaps in the 200s for the speed tier in UU, especially before Heatran. This means that you can get away with running a set/ ev spread that isnt a speed invested. Hoopa has good special bulk and ok typing, making it one of the few mons that can run av without making you look like a noob. This set creeps base neutral base 70s, which to me works as most of them dont run timid or jolly.
The Core functions as two pivots that round out Hoopas weakness and allow for it to sponge special attacks and deal back big damage. Molt and Rocky Helmet Alo are two of the biggest anti u-turn mons and u-turn is the bane of Hoopas existence.

 

[Melt Gibson]

What do we think about Gengar right now? I know he gained some competition and checks/counters with this DLC, what its best set right now? I want to try it out.

View attachment 565512

Hi! Firstly, welcome to the meta, glad to have you here :) Second, posts like this are better suited for the Simple Questions, Simple Answers thread.

To answer your question, unfortunately Gengar isn't very good at the moment, but UU has plenty of other options for Ghost-types! Such as...

- Has a unique defensive profile with Matcha Gotcha, Strength Sap, and Calm Mind that allows it to function as a wall and a win condition
- Unaware helps to check a large amount of setup threats, also capable of stealing games with Torch Song
- The closest to Gengar, but with Illusion mindgames and offensive coverage better suited to the meta, as well as some unique utility options
- Blasts through teams with raw power from Adaptability boosted STABs.

Hope this helps!

 

[Fracterra]

Hi! Firstly, welcome to the meta, glad to have you here :) Second, posts like this are better suited for the Simple Questions, Simple Answers thread.

To answer your question, unfortunately Gengar isn't very good at the moment, but UU has plenty of other options for Ghost-types! Such as...

- Has a unique defensive profile with Matcha Gotcha, Strength Sap, and Calm Mind that allows it to function as a wall and a win condition
- Unaware helps to check a large amount of setup threats, also capable of stealing games with Torch Song
- The closest to Gengar, but with Illusion mindgames and offensive coverage better suited to the meta, as well as some unique utility options
- Blasts through teams with raw power from Adaptability boosted STABs.

Hope this helps!

UU has some good ghost types, but also some good fighting types, or at least a lot of them

between this and the specs treads post, you should seriously consider a career as a used car salesman /s

to keep this from being a joke post/one liner: i think people have been really sleeping on certain rain mons! most notably, moltres and ludicolo. moltres provides a defensive answer to threats like lokix and scizor while also having access to hurricane and weather ball, making it still a potent offensive threat in rain. ludicolo functions largely the same as other special rain abusers like golduck and basculegion-f, life orb weather ball in rain does HUGE numbers, and grass STAB allows you to bulldoze through common rain checks like the slowtwins and gastrodon (thanks to goro for putting me on to this one). rain as an archetype now feels like it has a lot more depth in terms of the support and abusers you're able to pack onto it, and for once i'm actually rather excited to see how it develops in this meta :)

I see the words “Moltres being good in rain”, and laugh at how confused Gen 5 OU Players would be. To Prevent one liner, carbonlifeform, you have an amazing, creative mind, and you put that to good use. Keep using that Eternamax size brain to help develop the Meta. Also, 1 year of sv is happening in 2 weeks

 

[cosmogii]

What do we think about Gengar right now? I know he gained some competition and checks/counters with this DLC, what its best set right now? I want to try it out.

i might not be an expert, but encore sets with air balloon are pretty fun to mess around with. 110 speed is fantastic, but poison/ghost is quite literally the worst defensive type combo to have in this meta imo. you have meowscarada and lokix who will break your kneecaps with super strong dark type hits, you have booster sandy shocks preying on your lower speed and lack of ground immunity to end you, and then you got stuff like iron treads running around that carry BOTH ground and dark moves, its all a huge mess. but is it impossible to use? nope! just.. difficult.

a set like this might be somewhat interesting:
@ Air Balloon
Level: 100
Tera Type: Ghost
Timid Nature
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Shadow Ball
- Nasty Plot
- Focus Blast
- Encore

the idea is, you go in on a slower mon who wants to set up hazards, or maybe a boosting move, and lock them into it with encore. then you nasty plot up, and try to deal as much damage as you can before you inevitably end up on CNN. (aka, your bones get evaporated by one of the plentiful knock offs in the tier)
​

 

[Fracterra]

i might not be an expert, but encore sets with air balloon are pretty fun to mess around with. 110 speed is fantastic, but poison/ghost is quite literally the worst defensive type combo to have in this meta imo. you have meowscarada and lokix who will break your kneecaps with super strong dark type hits, you have booster sandy shocks preying on your lower speed and lack of ground immunity to end you, and then you got stuff like iron treads running around that carry BOTH ground and dark moves, its all a huge mess. but is it impossible to use? nope! just.. difficult.

a set like this might be somewhat interesting:
@ Air Balloon
Level: 100
Tera Type: Ghost
Timid Nature
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Shadow Ball
- Nasty Plot
- Focus Blast
- Encore

the idea is, you go in on a slower mon who wants to set up hazards, or maybe a boosting move, and lock them into it with encore. then you nasty plot up, and try to deal as much damage as you can before you inevitably end up on CNN. (aka, your bones get evaporated by one of the plentiful knock offs in the tier)
​

Lmao, roasting Gengar is funny. Yeah, Gengar has encore, and can’t sweep for shit. Against most teams, unless you get up 2 Nasty Plots, your opponent lacks prioritity, and forgets they can read your move, Tera, and use Knock Off. And if your opponent doesn’t have anything faster.

 

[cosmogii]

Lmao, roasting Gengar is funny. Yeah, Gengar has encore, and can’t sweep for shit. Against most teams, unless you get up 2 Nasty Plots, your opponent lacks prioritity, and forgets they can read your move, Tera, and use Knock Off. And if your opponent doesn’t have anything faster.

look i love gengar but this is literally the perfect shitstorm for the damn thing, don't say i didn't try lol