Tennis is going to try the borderline tier? :O EPIC!

[art-of-tennis]

Alright, this is my first time trying BL. If I make some kind of silly, noobish error, please don't flame. I admit I'm a noob with this tier, so no need to go any farther than that. I like a lot pokemon from here, so I decided I'd try it out. I'm normally an UU player, so don't be surprised to see a few of those in my team. This is just something that I randomly threw together and put it into marriland's team builder calculator. I saw that it fit together good with little weakness, so I decided to have it rated before trying it out!

Charizard @ life orb
adamant
evs: 140spe; 252atk; 118 hp
-dragon dance
-flare blitz
-earthquake
-rock slide/crunch/thunder punch

Alright, this is a bit of an odd-ball set. That I realize. I'm sure we all know that Charizard is the Belly drum king of the metagame, but there are some problems with using it. I have concluded that with platinum making priority moves a LOT more common, we MUST find a way to get charizard some new uses! The main down-side of using dragon dance with charizard is losing attack. There is a good-side, and that would be potentially added speed. Dragon dance gives charizard the ability to increase its speed multiple times.(each time attack gets a boost too ofcourse :p) I'm kind of baffled as for what to do with the final move, though. Rock slide could help flinch the opponent, while still adding coverage. Crunch could help lower opponent defenses; a BIG help if you get the side effect.(charizard needs all the attacking help it can get) Thunder punch helps get rid of waters, but needs atleast two DD's to get a chance to kill.

Hariyama@ leftovers
adamant-thick fat
evs: 76 hp; 252 atk; 180 def
-substitute
-focus punch
-icepunch
-thunderpunch

This is one of my favorite sets out there. I've used this before, and I love how it works! First, it makes a HUGE sub. With the sub in play, it can get in a focus punch. Would you want to take one of those from this thing's huge attack? Ice/thunderpunch are for coverage. This is what helps alleviate my team's ice weakness.

Raikou@ choice specs
timid
evs: 252sp.atk; 252 spe; 6 hp
-thunderbolt
-hp ground
-extrasensory
-shadow ball

Raikou doesn't have great moves, but it sure does have some stats! The moves on this set are pretty normal, other than hp ground. Hp ground may seem weird, but it does have a reason. In the BL tier, it isn't uncommon to see some UU pokemon. There are a LOT of UU pokemon that are weak to that.(most of which can be killed off with thunderbolt, but there are some that can't)

Torterra@ shell bell
adamant
evs: 136 hp; 242 atk; 132 spe
-swords dance
-wood hammer
-eartquake
-stone edge

Is there really anything to say about this? It's a standard swords-dance torterra. Looks like a pretty interesting set. With the nice defensive stats it shouldn't be too hard to get a few swords dances in. Passing an agility to it with this ev spread will allow it to outspeed base 115 pokemon after an agility. ;)

Empolean@ petaya berry
modest
evs: 28 hp; 252 sp.atk; 12 def; 216 spe
-agility
-subsitute
-surf
-ice beam

Ahhh... the agility torrent sweeper empolean. Man this set looks like it could hammer down teams. This is another one of those sets that I've always wanted to try. Empolean is somewhat bulky, so it's definitely one of those sweepers that can take a hit or two. The only thing this thing has to fear is an earthquake.

venomoth@ black sludge
modest - tinted lens
evs: 160 hp; 96 sp.atk; 252 sp.def
-agility
-baton bass
-bug buzz
-sleep powder

This is my team's baton passer. It's mainly here because of torterra, but I guess that my empolean would always welcome a free agility with open arms as well. It isn't my lead, but meant to come in later in the game.

 

[Matthew]

OU is over used, UU is pokemon which don't get as much action. BL prevents pokemon from participating in UU and Ubers prevents pokemon from participating in OU. (isn't that right?)

With that being said since BL isn't really a tier then this is designed for the OU metagame where esentially Gyarados takes down your team after get a DD or two up (barring Torterra).

=/

 

[Ambitions]

That Charizard is the fail.

Reasons why this set is completely terrible:

1. Stealth Rocks + Substitute + Boosted Flare Blitz means you maybe have one or two turns to attack.

2. Lack of coverage. Why did you chose thunderpunch? The only application I could ever see that being useful over EQ is against Gyarados. Crobat would take more damage from a Stab boosted Flare Blitz then a super effective Thunderpunch.

120 * 1.5 (stab) = 180

75 * 2 (SE hit) = 150

You obviously don't understand some basic stuff.

3. By the time you set up Sub & DD you could have also set up Sub & Belly Drum. Which would also have in turned activated your pinch speed berry. Giving you the same speed, and way fucking more attack. You'll pretty much OHKO everything after a Belly Drum, but you actually have to worry about not doing that after a DD. Charizard can't afford to take a hit nesecary to 2hko things.

4. DDZard is incredibly overshadowed by Salamence, Kingdra, Tyranitar and Gyarados. There shouldn't be much more explanation needed on this one. All four are way superior to Zard.

5. Charizard is undeniably the games best Belly Drummer. This is it's niche. By not using it, you are taking away it's biggest strength. The special sets obviously are playable too, mainly because people fear the Belly Drum set. Not DD.

6. WHAT THE FUCK ARE THOSE HP EVS DOING THERE? Do you plan on taking any hits? Are you leading with this Charizard, therefore avoiding SR? Why not just max speed and outrun random stupid choice scarfers? Terrible Ev spread.

 

[sverdon]

OU is over used, UU is pokemon which don't get as much action. BL prevents pokemon from participating in UU and Ubers prevents pokemon from participating in OU. (isn't that right?)

With that being said since BL isn't really a tier then this is designed for the OU metagame where esentially Gyarados takes down your team after get a DD or two up (barring Torterra).

=/

Completely disagree. There is a reason that Smogon created its own seperate BorderLine tier. As for the team, it doesn't look bad, other than a lack of walls. I don't see the purpose of Torterra, so maybe give it more of a wall/tank set. Synthesis and SR are all good options for this. As for your Charizard, listen to the guy above, but also go for the standard Bellyzard, and be sure to max out your Speed. Also, you might need a rapid spinner on your team, in order to take off SR that will cripple a Bellyzard. Cloyster is the only Rapid Spinner in BL...I think, so find some way of incorperating him into your team. That is al I can think of for now, but good luck! ;)

EDIT: Take the speed EVs off of Torterra, they are usless. Add them to HP. That is, if you decide to keep him.

 

[cim]

No, Gen Empoleon is right that BL tier is not a metagame designed to be played. I know nothing about BL, I just thought I'd clear it up. It's basically a random assortment of Pokémon not sorted by power or anything. Know your tiers!

 

[Morm]

Charizard is still king. He really does need belly drum to even begin to threaten physically.

 

[the pugilist]

OU is over used, UU is pokemon which don't get as much action. BL prevents pokemon from participating in UU and Ubers prevents pokemon from participating in OU. (isn't that right?)

With that being said since BL isn't really a tier then this is designed for the OU metagame where esentially Gyarados takes down your team after get a DD or two up (barring Torterra).

=/

Ubers is a banlist for pokemon too strong for OU much like BL is for UU, yet people are perfectly content playing the Uber tier despite the fact it is not meant to be playable. Similary, people are allowed to play BL matches.

Why are youare telling this guy in his own RMT thread what tiers he can/ cannot play anyway?

 

[Matthew]

Ubers is a banlist for pokemon too strong for OU much like BL is for UU, yet people are perfectly content playing the Uber tier despite the fact it is not meant to be playable. Similary, people are allowed to play BL matches.

Why are youare telling this guy in his own RMT thread what tiers he can/ cannot play anyway?

Ubers is tested over and over again. We've tested Deoxys and we WILL test Manaphy at one point. The fact of the matter is still that we've never really tested the BL tier, it is usually by how often the pokemon is used and sometimes, how it's base stats relate.

But if you REALLY need a rate for a metagame that I'm not sure if most people play...

First, get rid of Dragon Dance Charizard and make it Bellyzard, the king. There wouldn't be many good priority moves in your tier.

Make Venomoth the lead so you can already stat setting up your agilities to pass.

Also Torterra isn't helping you much. Perhaps Porygon-2 would help become the wall you're looking for.

 

[art-of-tennis]

*insert the exact same flame that tuskate pm'd me*

Do you and tuskate share accounts or something?

Completely disagree. There is a reason that Smogon created its own seperate BorderLine tier. As for the team, it doesn't look bad, other than a lack of walls. I don't see the purpose of Torterra, so maybe give it more of a wall/tank set. Synthesis and SR are all good options for this. As for your Charizard, listen to the guy above, but also go for the standard Bellyzard, and be sure to max out your Speed. Also, you might need a rapid spinner on your team, in order to take off SR that will cripple a Bellyzard. Cloyster is the only Rapid Spinner in BL...I think, so find some way of incorperating him into your team. That is al I can think of for now, but good luck! ;)

EDIT: Take the speed EVs off of Torterra, they are usless. Add them to HP. That is, if you decide to keep him.

Did you read the analysis spread? The speed evs are to outspeed base 115speed pokemon after recieving the agility boost. After getting an agility, it looks like torterra could rip through some pokemon. I don't see the problem with having him. As for the wall suggestion, I'm not good with walls at all. I ALWAYS use pure offensive pokemon teams. That's just how I play.

No, Gen Empoleon is right that BL tier is not a metagame designed to be played. I know nothing about BL, I just thought I'd clear it up. It's basically a random assortment of Pokémon not sorted by power or anything. Know your tiers!

If BL wasn't meant to be a tier, it'd just be put into "Limbo". It's uncommon, but it is used.

Charizard is still king. He really does need belly drum to even begin to threaten physically.

I'm trying to make a way for charizard to stay in longer, without dieing to sucker punch/other priority moves. That's why I decided to try DDzard.

Ubers is a banlist for pokemon too strong for OU much like BL is for UU, yet people are perfectly content playing the Uber tier despite the fact it is not meant to be playable. Similary, people are allowed to play BL matches.

Why are youare telling this guy in his own RMT thread what tiers he can/ cannot play anyway?

Thank you.

Ubers is tested over and over again. We've tested Deoxys and we WILL test Manaphy at one point. The fact of the matter is still that we've never really tested the BL tier, it is usually by how often the pokemon is used and sometimes, how it's base stats relate.

But if you REALLY need a rate for a metagame that I'm not sure if most people play...

First, get rid of Dragon Dance Charizard and make it Bellyzard, the king. There wouldn't be many good priority moves in your tier.

Make Venomoth the lead so you can already stat setting up your agilities to pass.

Also Torterra isn't helping you much. Perhaps Porygon-2 would help become the wall you're looking for.

1. There are too priority pokemon in BL. You do realize that ALL of UU can be used here, right? There's that to think of, and sucker punch honckrow. I have a pretty big flying weakness here, so that could be a potential problem. What's the problem with DDzard? Seriously, by adding speed to it, couldn't there be some possibilities for using it?

2. If you guys are saying torterra isn't helping me much, please to explain.

3. I hate porygon's, so I'd never do that. I'm willing to swap out torterra if I'm given a reason, though.(but not for pory)

 

[Ash Borer]

hmmm.....

what really jumps out at me is raikou.

I was thinking of a charge beam set... I think this could be a lot more effective than the empoleon. Empoleon could turn into a stealth rock tank, probably a role it is more suited for.

Raikou@petaya/salac
{timid}
evs: 8 hp / 248 satk / 252 speed
- substitute
- thunderbolt
- charge beam
- hidden power [ice]

really just 8 hp for 3 subs then boost. If you manage to fire off a charge beam and get a boost, then throw up some subs and have +1 speed and satk or +2 satk. This is a late game sweep potential in BL.

Petaya maybe if venomoth can pass some agility to raikou.


Here is a empoleon that i'm suggesting.

Empoleon@leftovers
{calm}
evs: 252 hp / 252 sdef / 4 satk
- surf
- ice beam
- stealth rock
- grass knot / roar


Ugh. I just look at your hariyama, this team is too sweepy. Hariyama can be an excellent restalker, he absorbs status easy and dishes it out hard.

Hariyama@leftovers
{bold}
ability: guts
evs: 252 hp / 76 atk / 180 def
- sleep talk
- rest
- force palm / cross chop
- stone edge / rock slide

rs and force palm for flinch, paralysis and accuracy. stone edge and cross chop for power. ability must be guts.

 

[art-of-tennis]

Why would I want a bold hariyama? ?_? Wouldn't impish be preferred to bold, due to not losing attack? This team is meant to be sweepy. I already stated that I don't really like walls. :/ Does the raikou really even need more speed? Explain to me why your set is superior to using a specs set. If you want me to change things, I want reasons to. No one has said why they want me to switch things.

 

[Ash Borer]

.. yes impish would be preferred. I wasnt really thinking there,

I'm not telling you to change the whole thing around. I'm suggesting sets that would probably suit your team better.

What i want to know is the record you have with this team.


here are the reasons.

Empoleon is a terrible sweeper. With decent coverage good satk and not even likely to fire off an agility. Empoleon has fantastic sdef, coupled with good and decent hp and defense stats. Stealth rock is lacking on your team and nothing really swtiches into special attackers on your team. What switches into ambipom, blaziken, houndoom, rampardos. These are where special and physical tanks step in.

And the reason for rakiou was that

1. Raikous movepool is trash. extrasensory and shadow ball? come on.

2. gives venomoth something to pass to. The only real option is torterra atm.

3. Raikou +1 satk runs right through teams. Raikou with specs gets a bunch of ground and grass switch ins.

 

[dizzleman22_main!]

raikou: Cacturne will wall it. Cacturne is actually quite a common Special Sweeper in BL/UU so i don't advise running TBolt/Hp Ground/Shadow Ball/Sub, i would recommend the "Holy Duo" Ice and Electric. So run Thunderbolt/Hp Ice Sub and... Hmm. Who resists bolt beam? Magnezone which would be handled by HP ground. Sadly you cant have two Hidden Powers. I dont see the point in HP ground, what exactly would you use it for.

 

[art-of-tennis]

.. yes impish would be preferred. I wasnt really thinking there,

I'm not telling you to change the whole thing around. I'm suggesting sets that would probably suit your team better.

What i want to know is the record you have with this team.

I have already stated that I've yet to try it out, yet.

here are the reasons.

Empoleon is a terrible sweeper. With decent coverage good satk and not even likely to fire off an agility.

Did you know that after recieving the petaya berry boost, and firing off an agility, empolean is will reach one of the highest sp.atk's possible? Substituting is what allows empolean to get the sub in. -_-

Empoleon has fantastic sdef, coupled with good and decent hp and defense stats. Stealth rock is lacking on your team and nothing really swtiches into special attackers on your team.

Sure, empolean could be a good wall. That is true. It also can be a VERY poor one, with earthquake being so common. With earthquake and close combat around, the stealth rock/roar set isn't that useful.

What switches into ambipom, blaziken, houndoom, rampardos. These are where special and physical tanks step in.

The purpose of having a pure sweeping team, is you kill them when they're coming in. Not to mention that three of those four you listed would be slaughtered by hariyama.

And the reason for rakiou was that

1. Raikous movepool is trash. extrasensory and shadow ball? come on.

Those are the two moves listed in the analysis. They're both filler, and they're the best he has acess to aside from hidden power.

2. gives venomoth something to pass to. The only real option is torterra atm.

Empolean would always welcome a free agility.

3. Raikou +1 satk runs right through teams. Raikou with specs gets a bunch of ground and grass switch ins.

That I can see being true. :/ I only have two raikou's though, the hp ground one and an hp water one. I figured ground would be useful for killing off those large amounts of UU pokemon that could be used. Ground can get rid of a lot of those that ice can't.(some of which thunderbolt can, but not all) THIS IS ON WIFI ONLY! I DO NOT HAVE SHODDY!

raikou: Cacturne will wall it. Cacturne is actually quite a common Special Sweeper in BL/UU so i don't advise running TBolt/Hp Ground/Shadow Ball/Sub, i would recommend the "Holy Duo" Ice and Electric. So run Thunderbolt/Hp Ice Sub and... Hmm. Who resists bolt beam? Magnezone which would be handled by HP ground. Sadly you cant have two Hidden Powers. I dont see the point in HP ground, what exactly would you use it for.

1. Hp ground can kill things like bastiodon. UU pokemon are commonly seen in BL. As I stated, there are multiple ones that ground could help cover.

2. 3 of my pokemon can kill of cacturne pretty easily. I'm not to worried about him.(charizard, ice punch hariyama, and empolean)