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NOC The Mafia Invitational (Game Thread) [D2 Deadline: Friday, March 2nd, 6 PM EST]
- Thread starter Texas Cloverleaf
- Start date
- Status
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pCKboRv8aSpqFN1zsoGqIvHPcE_Gl0SaZOnA7TerwPU/edit?usp=sharing
texas wanted me to post this
also Josh why dont u just play again but w/ open set up so theres no shenanigans and you can give ppl a beat down. idk. seems a shame to waste the player list
texas wanted me to post this
also Josh why dont u just play again but w/ open set up so theres no shenanigans and you can give ppl a beat down. idk. seems a shame to waste the player list
I want an open setup that we all agree on so we can play actual mafia instead of ((town have a 70% chance of winning this setup)) even without the setup got hacked dun goof
This setup was too townsided even without the josh hax. and no, just because mastina wrote a wall explaining why her setup is great doesn’t make it appropriate for an “invitational of the best noc players on smogon”. NGL this choice of setup diminished my trust of you to choose balanced setups as a game host, so if we do play again and I roll scum (ahem rigging ahem) then at least I can breathe better knowing that town can’t 1shot members of my team nightly cos of PRs. Smogon meta happens to have stronger top town players than scum players in general already, so it’s hard to even give them a challenge, and since this scumteam happened to have the better players already rolling scum (me + yeti) we kind of showed our hands and its really tiring to come up with new tricks if somehow we get rolled again for round 2. Yet, if we aren’t on scumteam for round 2, town gets easygame more likely given a fair setup. So yes, dilemma.
This setup was too townsided even without the josh hax. and no, just because mastina wrote a wall explaining why her setup is great doesn’t make it appropriate for an “invitational of the best noc players on smogon”. NGL this choice of setup diminished my trust of you to choose balanced setups as a game host, so if we do play again and I roll scum (ahem rigging ahem) then at least I can breathe better knowing that town can’t 1shot members of my team nightly cos of PRs. Smogon meta happens to have stronger top town players than scum players in general already, so it’s hard to even give them a challenge, and since this scumteam happened to have the better players already rolling scum (me + yeti) we kind of showed our hands and its really tiring to come up with new tricks if somehow we get rolled again for round 2. Yet, if we aren’t on scumteam for round 2, town gets easygame more likely given a fair setup. So yes, dilemma.
Like I literally posted this in our scumchat
And the first thing that I see on d2 was a fucking cop even after we correctly sniped the tracker
Even without josh knowing the setup I would seriously be pretty pissed with the choice of setup here at that point. Thankfully I didn’t have to do that ragequitting thing cos game was stopped for us without my intervention?
So, yeah, if we want even a remotely fair game, open setup next round. Or, I could host.
Yes sir we were enjoying it. D1 was really fun. It’s cos the player interactions were pure and it was a pure game of mafia (no interference with setups)
Im pissed I didnt get to shoot anyone. R2 please. Fine with open shit, as long as it's an interesting setup that doesn't boil down to scum is fucked if a pr finds them without a couple of uncertainties about the results. I'd at least pref an open one with multiple potential setups announced, and one picked at random.
It would seem were moving towards a consensus preference of C9++ or something along those lines
I offer to host again if you guys want a closed setup
If it’s an open setup let’s all discuss it first and agree, then anyone can host. The hoster will propose and we will vote yea or nay
If it’s an open setup let’s all discuss it first and agree, then anyone can host. The hoster will propose and we will vote yea or nay
I'm not picky on set up
I have an objection to C9++ mainly because most setups generated by it are pretty terrible (I hate SKs in small games)
but I can work with anything else?
but I can work with anything else?
Anyone have suggestions?
I suggest Metal Sonic chooses an open setup and Paperblade hosts as he said he wishes not to play
Ok I’ll choose later
Can we first confirm how many players there will be?
Can we first confirm how many players there will be?
We should get everyone to confirm
afaik it's currently the existing player list
-josh
-paperblade
+maybe me
+maybe hawkie
afaik it's currently the existing player list
-josh
-paperblade
+maybe me
+maybe hawkie
Why are we kicking out josh again? I’m cool with him still playing, tbh. Can we hold it to an anonymous vote instead?
But, anyway, you guys go settle that
I’ll find a couple of appropriate 13p open setups and the playerlist will vote on which one will be played
I’ll find a couple of appropriate 13p open setups and the playerlist will vote on which one will be played
I have no problem with him playing but he said he wouldn't /in again so until he says otherwise the assumption is he's out
Metal Sonic's picks of Open Setups for Smogon Mafia Invitational 2018
As you can see I have a preference for pure skill-based setups instead of cheesing via PRs. Also, for the sake of invitational, I prefer setups which minimize reliance on certain players to carry (unlike this game, where plays by Vig and Gunsmith determined if town lost or won), so everyone contributes individually. So, I deliberately avoid setups which include VIG OR COP.
1. Masons and Monks:
9 - 2 - 2
MS's analysis:
+ Every player in the game individually contributes to their team; not one player is more burdened to play better than another (due to drawing PRs, etc)
+ Everybody has to scumhunt; players who are traditionally weaker at scum *coughProphylaxisEmpoofPaperbladecough* have a chance.
- Multiball; not a standard Town vs Mafia battle.
- Potential to be swingy, tables can be turned.
- Worst case; a single scumteam can be eliminated N1; town loses with 2 mislynches if scum do not cross kill at all.
2. Making Friends and Enemies
10 - 3
MS's analysis:
+ Scum who are better at pocketing town will thrive in this setup.
- Extra responsibility rests on the Masons to carry town
- Game host must be strict and enforce "nightchat only" for the masons.
3. White Flag
10 - 3
MS's analysis:
+ 100% skill, pure scumhunting.
+ Approved Mafiascum Team Mafia setup (not like all team mafia setups are foolproof... but still...)
- Require more effort on both the town and the scum side.
* More effort, more action????
4. Perpetual Mylo
7 - 5
MS's analysis:
+ Fair 1v1 battling. Either half the playerlist wins or loses.
+ Way more exciting to watch.
- More dependent on team composition
As you can see I have a preference for pure skill-based setups instead of cheesing via PRs. Also, for the sake of invitational, I prefer setups which minimize reliance on certain players to carry (unlike this game, where plays by Vig and Gunsmith determined if town lost or won), so everyone contributes individually. So, I deliberately avoid setups which include VIG OR COP.
1. Masons and Monks:
Masons and Monks
- Daystart
- 2 players who are not Mafia are randomly selected to be Masons.
- 2 players who are not Werewolves are randomly selected to be Monks.
- Those masonries are allowed to talk together at night.
- It is possible for a Mafia Goon to be a Monk, and likewise, a Werewolf to be a Mason.
- Mafia cannot have both the Monk roles, and Werewolves cannot have both Mason roles.
MS's analysis:
+ Every player in the game individually contributes to their team; not one player is more burdened to play better than another (due to drawing PRs, etc)
+ Everybody has to scumhunt; players who are traditionally weaker at scum *coughProphylaxisEmpoofPaperbladecough* have a chance.
- Multiball; not a standard Town vs Mafia battle.
- Potential to be swingy, tables can be turned.
- Worst case; a single scumteam can be eliminated N1; town loses with 2 mislynches if scum do not cross kill at all.
2. Making Friends and Enemies
There will be 8 VTs, 2 Masons, and 3 Mafia Goons!
There is a daystart.
And the masons only have night chat.
Masons have a 1-shot recruit; upon recruiting town, they will join the chat. If it's scum, it will fail
There is a daystart.
And the masons only have night chat.
Masons have a 1-shot recruit; upon recruiting town, they will join the chat. If it's scum, it will fail
MS's analysis:
+ Scum who are better at pocketing town will thrive in this setup.
- Extra responsibility rests on the Masons to carry town
- Game host must be strict and enforce "nightchat only" for the masons.
3. White Flag
This game uses the White Flag Setup. The Town wins when only one Mafia player is alive, as opposed to when all of the Mafia players are dead.
Roles:
3 Mafia Goons
10 Vanilla Townies
Roles:
3 Mafia Goons
10 Vanilla Townies
MS's analysis:
+ 100% skill, pure scumhunting.
+ Approved Mafiascum Team Mafia setup (not like all team mafia setups are foolproof... but still...)
- Require more effort on both the town and the scum side.
* More effort, more action????
4. Perpetual Mylo
Setup:
Twelve player open theme setup
Five Mafia vs. seven Town
If the town successfully lynches a Mafia player on a particular day, then the Mafia team kills a Town player that night. However, if the town lynches incorrectly, then the Mafia team has to sacrifice one of their own the following night.
Town wins if they lynch three mafia goons before they mislynch three times.
Mafia wins if they can coordinate a mislynch three times before three of their members are lynched.
Essentially it is a match for three out of five.
Twelve player open theme setup
Five Mafia vs. seven Town
If the town successfully lynches a Mafia player on a particular day, then the Mafia team kills a Town player that night. However, if the town lynches incorrectly, then the Mafia team has to sacrifice one of their own the following night.
Town wins if they lynch three mafia goons before they mislynch three times.
Mafia wins if they can coordinate a mislynch three times before three of their members are lynched.
Essentially it is a match for three out of five.
MS's analysis:
+ Fair 1v1 battling. Either half the playerlist wins or loses.
+ Way more exciting to watch.
- More dependent on team composition
okay folks get voting/choosing
- Status