Other Metagames The North Wind(Mono-Ice Blizzard Spam) (Peaked 1622)

[average fella]

After I looked at Dece1t's RMT Nuke Em'!, one thought entered my brain. "holy shit this team is so fucking weird i bet i can build a better ice than that". I tried building generic ice, then a more hyper offensive rocksless ice, then a slightly more standard team. They all failed to varying degrees. Like a couple days ago, the idea popped into my head for this team. I was disconnected from the internet for a while, so I wrote that shit down on a piece of paper and oddly enough this team worked fantastically. Also, here's my ladder peak, with a non-shitty GXE to boot! 3 points above stun, I can sleep easy knowing I did better at Ice than him.

teambuilding process

The first thought I had about this team was: "What if Rotom-F had an Ice STAB that wasn't terrible?" I decided to use Icy Rock Abomasnow to fill this role, laying hail for Rotom-F's Blizzards to do a lot of damage and be accurate for quite a few turns, which is why I didn't use Mega Aboma. This is also a decent anti-water core, allowing you to potentially beat Swift Swim Water.

Physically defensive Avalugg and mixed Scarf Kyurem-B are both basically required on Ice, this was an automatic add to this team.

I was debating whether I wanted to use Mamoswine or Mega Glalie, but I realized that this team REALLY needed rocks, so Mamoswine was the better choice.

I needed a Scizor check, so Walrein was an automatic add. Lapras belongs in the trash.

brake stupid tree (Abomasnow) @ Icy Rock
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
- Blizzard
- Giga Drain
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard

This is essentially the anchor of the team, if this goes down, pretty much only Avalugg can use its STAB reliably, this is also a fantastic backup revenge killer should you need one with Ice Shard. Giga Drain is to shit on water, EQ is filler. I will not change this to mega. Its Icy Rock has saved this team innumerable times (or at least given the team less risk spamming Blizzard innumerable times) and also helps you have to switch in Abomasnow as little as possible. Also, use this to predict Breloom Spores and live the Mach Punch if it's Sash. The name is inspired by a very riveting warstory.

Tigran (Avalugg) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Avalanche
- Recover
- Rapid Spin
- Roar

Standard Avalugg by most standards, I personally prefer running Roar>Earthquake on Avalugg, it just feels like setup on it is way too often free for me to run Earthquake. This is named after chess grandmaster Tigran Petrosian, notorious for playing an extremely defensive style. The goal is so that I think about possibly playing defensively with Avalugg to increase chances of winning. I still play way too recklessly. Oh well.

Kyurem-Black @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Outrage
- Fusion Bolt
- Blizzard
- Earth Power

Standard Kyurem-B set, the only thing that's different is Blizzard>Ice Beam, it's mostly so it can be literally the most difficult threat that a Flying mono will ever face. Fusion Bolt and 100% accuracy Blizzards are insurmountable if I can actually get Kyurem in.

Rotom-Frost @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Blizzard
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Trick

VERY FAST BLIZZARDS. This is one of my two cleaners, this being more specially based, as well as a good mon to pivot off Klefki for momentum, and just a good mon to grab momentum to possibly get Abomasnow in safely.

Mamoswine @ Focus Sash
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Ice Shard
- Stealth Rock

Suicide lead, not much to it. Earthquake for damage, Knock off for beating Chansey, Ice shard for picking off other Sashes. Stealth Rock because it's Stealth Rock.

Walrein @ Choice Specs
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 160 HP / 252 SpA / 96 Spe
Modest Nature
- Blizzard
- Frost Breath
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Surf

Basic Scizor check set, the filler is Blizzard instead of Signal Beam because sometimes it's helpful to not miss as well as do more damage.

​

Threats

There are a lot of them!

- Generic Psychic is hell. Walrein CAN tank a v-create, even on rocks switch, and tank another and go for the kill. What's stopping them from going to Hoopa-U, though? Not Signal Beam, I don't have it. This is very difficult, even more than it is with generic Ice.

- Generic Bug is hell as well. Heracross makes Avalugg weak, so there's no healthy Avalugg to sponge Banded Bullet Punches except for Walrein, and when Walrein is weak, there's absolutely NOBODY who can stop Volcarona.

- Generic Fighting is hell, Terrakion forces you to keep Avalugg healthy, and Mach Punch spam from Breloom combined with the no-switchins monster that is Specs Keldeo, you will likely lose this matchup.

NON-ISSUES

- I genuinely do not understand the fuss behind fighting HO Steel, I've had way more trouble with Bug, Psychic, and Fighting. Unless your opponent has IMMACULATE KNOWLEDGE OF THE ICE V STEEL MATCHUP AND GOES FOR FERROTHORN IN SCIZOR VS WALREIN, you can pretty much always nab one of their wincons with Specs Walrein every time it comes in, and Avalugg can both sponge Bullet Punches from Mega Scizor, and phaze it out if it thinks it can set up for free. I added Magnezone because I don't actually know what Steel's wincons are against this team. Ice has enough Earthquake users to go around, you can win this matchup very easily. OR at least I can and I'm missing something that's supposed to make it an automatic loss.

importable

brake stupid tree (Abomasnow) @ Icy Rock
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
- Blizzard
- Giga Drain
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard

Tigran (Avalugg) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Avalanche
- Recover
- Rapid Spin
- Roar

Kyurem-Black @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Outrage
- Fusion Bolt
- Blizzard
- Earth Power

Rotom-Frost @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Blizzard
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Trick

Mamoswine @ Focus Sash
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Ice Shard
- Stealth Rock

Walrein @ Choice Specs
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 160 HP / 252 SpA / 96 Spe
Modest Nature
- Blizzard
- Frost Breath
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Surf

 

[lax]

Yo dude, cool team. Not generic so that's a bigger +. I got a few suggestions, so here's a rate:

First thing I noticed was your Rotom-F set, and how your team is completely 6-0d by Speedy Scizor (which is usually a given on ice) if any form of hazards are on the field. As a result, I'd like to suggest this custom Rotom-F spread with HP-Fire that lets you live a +2 BP and hit it hard.
+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 108 HP / 0 Def Rotom-F: 226-267 (84.3 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO This allows you to potentially hard switch to lugg on the sd, remove hazards, then Roar or let it die depending on if he kills lug or sets up again, either of which are nice for you. Replacing Thunderbolt on Rotom-F allows you to keep your momentum while having a perfectly fine set that helps Ice teams a bunch. If you didn't realize, Trick is amazing to cripple annoying threats to ice like Chansey and P2.

Next and final thing is rather minor, but I'd actually suggest changing Knock Off -> Endeavor on Mamoswine. Endeavor is really useful for a sash lead and allows you to play mindgames and potentially cripple a huge threat after laying up your rocks. This helps in many situations where a threat outspeeds, you endeavor, and then it is mindgames from there. Whether you believe he'll stay in and sack it to shard or whether you predict the switch and get up rocks, it all depends on you. I really like the sash lead set because it can surprise many players and even wittle down mons that wall mamo like slowbro, for example.
​

Team is pretty solid otherwise, here are the sets and good luck man

Sets

Rotom-Frost @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 108 HP / 252 SpA / 148 Spe
Timid Nature
- Blizzard
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Volt Switch
- Trick

Mamoswine @ Focus Sash
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Endeavor
- Ice Shard
- Stealth Rock

 

[all falls down]

Hey fella, pretty cool team. You don't see Abomasnow or hail that much anymore so it's nice to see it being put to use. Here's a quick rate, mostly nitpicky dealing with EV spreads and moveslots:

• 
  First of all, I agree with Lax's change to Rotom-f with HP fire. I don't agree with his spread suggestion though. Scarf Rotom-f sits at a very important speed tier for Ice teams, being able to just barely outspeed Scarf Heracross (which outspeeds and OHKOs everything besides your Kyurem-B which won't want to take unnecessary damage from rocks because is the main win condition vs Fighting teams), +1 Gyarados, and perhaps most importantly Mega Lopunny. Lax's spread misses out on all of these in addition to base 120 speed Pokemon or higher. Because of these reasons I definitely think speed is really important, so I would remove the EVs from SpA instead. Even without the extra SpA EVs, the damage output isn't much different and you're still able to revenge kill the Pokemon that you need to. In addition, I would throw in another 4 EVs into HP to keep your HP stat odd for SR switch-ins. This leaves you with an EV spread of 112 HP / 144 SpA / 252 Spe
• 
  Definitely agree with Lax's suggestion here: Endeavor Mamoswine is a great move for lead Mamoswine on Ice and it does a great job as a last-minute check vs big threats like Scizor (you'd be surprised how often it works), and it does good vs teams with annoying Defoggers.
  
• 
  Honestly your Abomasnow sits at a rather annoying speed with 0 speed and a -speed nature, I think that 164 Speed is really useful, as it lets you outspeed min speed Skarmory, Mandibuzz, Togekiss, Mega Venusaur, Heatran, Tyranitar and Lanturn among others that are missed out on by your spread. This means that you have to use a Rash -SpD nature of course but I think that's okay since you'll still be able to switch in to Scalds (just about the only Special move you'll be switching this into).

Thats all I have, hope I helped! Like I said, cool team!

sets

Abomasnow @ Icy Rock
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 88 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 164 Spe
Rash Nature
- Blizzard
- Giga Drain
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard

keeps odd hp for SR switch-ins

Rotom-Frost @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 112 HP / 144 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Blizzard
- Trick

Knock off -> Endeavor on Mamoswine

 

[average fella]

Hey fella, pretty cool team. You don't see Abomasnow or hail that much anymore so it's nice to see it being put to use. Here's a quick rate, mostly nitpicky dealing with EV spreads and moveslots:

• 
  First of all, I agree with Lax's change to Rotom-f with HP fire. I don't agree with his spread suggestion though. Scarf Rotom-f sits at a very important speed tier for Ice teams, being able to just barely outspeed Scarf Heracross (which outspeeds and OHKOs everything besides your Kyurem-B which won't want to take unnecessary damage from rocks because is the main win condition vs Fighting teams), +1 Gyarados, and perhaps most importantly Mega Lopunny. Lax's spread misses out on all of these in addition to base 120 speed Pokemon or higher. Because of these reasons I definitely think speed is really important, so I would remove the EVs from SpA instead. Even without the extra SpA EVs, the damage output isn't much different and you're still able to revenge kill the Pokemon that you need to. In addition, I would throw in another 4 EVs into HP to keep your HP stat odd for SR switch-ins. This leaves you with an EV spread of 112 HP / 144 SpA / 252 Spe
• 
  Definitely agree with Lax's suggestion here: Endeavor Mamoswine is a great move for lead Mamoswine on Ice and it does a great job as a last-minute check vs big threats like Scizor (you'd be surprised how often it works), and it does good vs teams with annoying Defoggers.
  
• 
  Honestly your Abomasnow sits at a rather annoying speed with 0 speed and a -speed nature, I think that 164 Speed is really useful, as it lets you outspeed min speed Skarmory, Mandibuzz, Togekiss, Mega Venusaur, Heatran, Tyranitar and Lanturn among others that are missed out on by your spread. This means that you have to use a Rash -SpD nature of course but I think that's okay since you'll still be able to switch in to Scalds (just about the only Special move you'll be switching this into).

Thats all I have, hope I helped! Like I said, cool team!

sets

Abomasnow @ Icy Rock
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 88 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 164 Spe
Rash Nature
- Blizzard
- Giga Drain
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard

keeps odd hp for SR switch-ins

Rotom-Frost @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 112 HP / 144 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Blizzard
- Trick

Knock off -> Endeavor on Mamoswine

Replying to yours because it's basically "I agree" with lax's post as well as another weird suggestion.

I'm not changing the Abomasnow set for that reason. These mons are either non-issues for this team (Skarm, Mandi, Venu) or shit I'll never stay in on just in case they run some speed (Togekiss, Heatran, TTar); while I like beating Lanturn, there are some more important threats (I still have max attack Kyurem-B Teravolt Fusion Bolt and most Water builds have no better absorber for Giga Drains. even if you get a vswitch). Also, the slow speed allows me to double into TTar and Politoed (moreso politoed because TTar's teammates can pretty much always kill me), and lay my weather second.

Additionally, this shit is the only hope I have of beating Loom without sacking a mon.

252 Atk Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Abomasnow: 252-296 (65.6 - 77%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Yes, it's unimpressive. I usually try my best to spin (which there are many opportunities to do against grass and is unreasonable for fighting since you lose anyway lol). It's also the best I have, so no, I'm not giving this speed. If anything, I'd give this a spread to get more Defense, I'll actually try that after I write this up.

____________________________________________________________________________


I completely forgot to mention this, so you probably had no idea, but one of the more major reasons that Mamo has Knock Off is as a (shitty) counterplay to generic spdef mew. (koff lefties as it wisps you, switch kyurem in on the softboiled, outrage and pray) If you didn't notice, this team is HEAVILY specially inclined and nothing is super effective against Mew. Additionally, it's a solid way to scout Skarmory sets, and a counterplay to Mono-Ghost in general (rest in peace viable Ghost). As cool as Money$wine is, and as good as a lead matchup it has against some things that give me trouble, I gotta say no to Endeavor.

____________________________________________________________________________

AFD, you're confusing Scarf Rotom-F's role with Scarf Rotom-H's role on fire. This thing can barely do shit to Heracross without sacing Avalugg, and Avalugg is... counterplay to it? A little? It either gets the kill on Heracross if you don't get unlucky, or RH softens it up for either Kyurem-B or... I guess Rotom-F to kill it?

252 Atk Heracross Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 176-210 (44.7 - 53.4%) -- 28.1% chance to 2HKO

Two Rocky Helmets do 33% The damage calc isn't that customizable, sadly.

144 SpA Rotom-F Volt Switch vs. -2 0 HP / 0 SpD Heracross: 187-222 (62.1 - 73.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

So, its a roll slightly in your favour, or you make yourself Keldeo bait with HP Fire.

(Not to mention if they have scarf hera on fighting, the terrakion is waiting in the wings to ACTUALLY fuck you up since your Avalugg is weak. Good thing barely anyone uses that combo!)

Speaking of, I ain't removing Tbolt. It's useful.

252 SpA Rotom-F Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Keldeo: 278-330 (86 - 102.1%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 36-42 (11.1 - 13%) -- possible 8HKO

(meaning, if you don't get two fucking min rolls in the lead Keldeo vs lead Mamoswine matchup, you can lay SR and TBolt the Keldeo, or it scald burns you and you get a free switchin to Aboma)

If any Fighting or Ice player reached for their calculator, you'd realize that honestly you cannot save the Fighting matchup unless they choke. I believe the Psy matchup and the Bug one are salvagable if they choke/don't have gardevoir to sponge outrages, or not have all three of hera/sciz/volc. The effective options against Ice are so omnipresent on Fighting teams that I can't possibly cover all of these without radically altering the team. As fun as utilizing ZYNX and specs Froslass (doesnt even kill keldeo with psychic i have no idea how stun uses this steaming pile of shit), I'd just rather have a good team that can beat 16 out of 17 types.




Lax, your EV's are okay, but Scarf Togekiss is still a thing that can potentially solo my team if Rotom can't outspeed it

252 SpA Togekiss Dazzling Gleam vs. 108 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-F: 118-139 (44 - 51.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Togekiss Dazzling Gleam vs. 108 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-F: 118-139 (44 - 51.8%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO

So basically, if I make Rotom slower, I now have zero reliable switchins to scarfed Togekiss, without using Walrein (who probably won't be able to attack it because 60%=100% and will be worn down to the point of +1 Clefable Moonblast 2HKOing it. Even if I scout an Air Slash and immediately switch out. Hell, if I take 2 Gleams, Clef will OHKO at +1. Fuck Fairy.). Mega Gyarados isn't a HUGE threat, Avalugg hardwalls it and phazes it, but outspeeding it is certainly helpful, I suppose. Mega Lopunny dies to Kyurem-B Outrage and doesn't die to Rotom-F Blizzard, not sure why afd mentioned that.

So, no, I'm not changing Rotom-F's set, as cool as beating ~22% of Scizor sets is.

 

[all falls down]

Replying to yours because it's basically "I agree" with lax's post as well as another weird suggestion.

I'm not changing the Abomasnow set for that reason. These mons are either non-issues for this team (Skarm, Mandi, Venu) or shit I'll never stay in on just in case they run some speed (Togekiss, Heatran, TTar); while I like beating Lanturn, there are some more important threats (I still have max attack Kyurem-B Teravolt Fusion Bolt and most Water builds have no better absorber for Giga Drains. even if you get a vswitch). Also, the slow speed allows me to double into TTar and Politoed (moreso politoed because TTar's teammates can pretty much always kill me), and lay my weather second.

Additionally, this shit is the only hope I have of beating Loom without sacking a mon.

252 Atk Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Abomasnow: 252-296 (65.6 - 77%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Yes, it's unimpressive. I usually try my best to spin (which there are many opportunities to do against grass and is unreasonable for fighting since you lose anyway lol). It's also the best I have, so no, I'm not giving this speed. If anything, I'd give this a spread to get more Defense, I'll actually try that after I write this up.

____________________________________________________________________________


I completely forgot to mention this, so you probably had no idea, but one of the more major reasons that Mamo has Knock Off is as a (shitty) counterplay to generic spdef mew. (koff lefties as it wisps you, switch kyurem in on the softboiled, outrage and pray) If you didn't notice, this team is HEAVILY specially inclined and nothing is super effective against Mew. Additionally, it's a solid way to scout Skarmory sets, and a counterplay to Mono-Ghost in general (rest in peace viable Ghost). As cool as Money$wine is, and as good as a lead matchup it has against some things that give me trouble, I gotta say no to Endeavor.

____________________________________________________________________________

AFD, you're confusing Scarf Rotom-F's role with Scarf Rotom-H's role on fire. This thing can barely do shit to Heracross without sacing Avalugg, and Avalugg is... counterplay to it? A little? It either gets the kill on Heracross if you don't get unlucky, or RH softens it up for either Kyurem-B or... I guess Rotom-F to kill it?

252 Atk Heracross Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 176-210 (44.7 - 53.4%) -- 28.1% chance to 2HKO

Two Rocky Helmets do 33% The damage calc isn't that customizable, sadly.

144 SpA Rotom-F Volt Switch vs. -2 0 HP / 0 SpD Heracross: 187-222 (62.1 - 73.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

So, its a roll slightly in your favour, or you make yourself Keldeo bait with HP Fire.

(Not to mention if they have scarf hera on fighting, the terrakion is waiting in the wings to ACTUALLY fuck you up since your Avalugg is weak. Good thing barely anyone uses that combo!)

Speaking of, I ain't removing Tbolt. It's useful.

252 SpA Rotom-F Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Keldeo: 278-330 (86 - 102.1%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 36-42 (11.1 - 13%) -- possible 8HKO

(meaning, if you don't get two fucking min rolls in the lead Keldeo vs lead Mamoswine matchup, you can lay SR and TBolt the Keldeo, or it scald burns you and you get a free switchin to Aboma)

If any Fighting or Ice player reached for their calculator, you'd realize that honestly you cannot save the Fighting matchup unless they choke. I believe the Psy matchup and the Bug one are salvagable if they choke/don't have gardevoir to sponge outrages, or not have all three of hera/sciz/volc. The effective options against Ice are so omnipresent on Fighting teams that I can't possibly cover all of these without radically altering the team. As fun as utilizing ZYNX and specs Froslass (doesnt even kill keldeo with psychic i have no idea how stun uses this steaming pile of shit), I'd just rather have a good team that can beat 16 out of 17 types.




Lax, your EV's are okay, but Scarf Togekiss is still a thing that can potentially solo my team if Rotom can't outspeed it

252 SpA Togekiss Dazzling Gleam vs. 108 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-F: 118-139 (44 - 51.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Togekiss Dazzling Gleam vs. 108 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-F: 118-139 (44 - 51.8%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO

So basically, if I make Rotom slower, I now have zero reliable switchins to scarfed Togekiss, without using Walrein (who probably won't be able to attack it because 60%=100% and will be worn down to the point of +1 Clefable Moonblast 2HKOing it. Even if I scout an Air Slash and immediately switch out. Hell, if I take 2 Gleams, Clef will OHKO at +1. Fuck Fairy.). Mega Gyarados isn't a HUGE threat, Avalugg hardwalls it and phazes it, but outspeeding it is certainly helpful, I suppose. Mega Lopunny dies to Kyurem-B Outrage and doesn't die to Rotom-F Blizzard, not sure why afd mentioned that.

So, no, I'm not changing Rotom-F's set, as cool as beating ~22% of Scizor sets is.

Fair points. You'd be surprised about the Fighting matchup with scarf Kyurem though. If they don't have Scarf Terrakion (most do, but the % is gradually getting lower), Scarf Kyurem does fantastic against Fighting teams. Here's a VERY old replay that shows this: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/frost-oumonotype-1069557 Granted I did use Terrakion awfully here but if you get a chance to kill Terrakion (if they stay in on Avalugg and CC seems like the only chance on your team) or if they aren't using Terrakion or Scarf Terrakion (which amounts to about ~20% of Fighting teams IIRC) and they also don't have Cobalion (much lower usage than Terrakion), Outrage has the potential to win.

Regarding Heracross, that was just one example. That Rotom set was very slow, and outspeeding things like Heracross (you just Volt Switch and sack something, as opposed to sacking your only win condition Kyurem) and Mega Lopunny can be pretty useful if you don't want to lock yourself into Outrage early on and lose your Kyurem, in addition to the other Pokemon I said and Togekiss. Also Scarf Heracross applies to Bug teams too (and probably moreso).

As for Abomasnow, that's understandable.

Knock off on Mamoswine is also understandable, just note that even if you Knock Off Mew it's still going to beat you whole team without Leftovers. As for the matchup vs Ghost, as soon as they notice Mamoswine is your SR setter they'll know it's lead Mamoswine and Mega Sableye will be their primary switch-in to it anyways, meaning that you won't actually get to Knock anything off.

 

[Dece1t]

I've been meaning to reply to this because you called my ice team weird and claimed yours is better (won't be that way for long) -_____-

Anyways, I like the creativeness of your team man, but I have a couple suggestions to make it that much better!

On Aboma, I personally don't see why not run Mega, especially if you're running a mixed attacker set. It's a lot more powerful, bulkier, and you'll be able to threaten Water and Ground teams a lot better.

Next I would personally change Mamo's item to LO, and add Superpower. That's gonna be a huge help for you coverage wise, especially vs normal.

Lastly, this is more of an optional suggestion, but perhaps try Specs Froslass over Rotom. Yea its a good scarfer, but without consistent hail it can tend to be unreliable (plus you have Abomasnow already that gives Water a hard enough time). Froslass is gonna help you a ton by giving you a fighting immunity, a great con vs Psychic, and it won't slow down your team thanks to its pretty good base 110 speed stat! For you I'd highly recommend it, I think you'd like it man if you gave it a shot. ;)

Edit: Forgot since Aboma isn't Icy Rock anymoe, you may as well remove Blizzard from Kyurem-B/Walrein, or keep them if you think you can preserve Aboma for long enough.

 

[average fella]

I've been meaning to reply to this because you called my ice team weird and claimed yours is better (won't be that way for long) -_____-

Anyways, I like the creativeness of your team man, but I have a couple suggestions to make it that much better!

On Aboma, I personally don't see why not run Mega, especially if you're running a mixed attacker set. It's a lot more powerful, bulkier, and you'll be able to threaten Water and Ground teams a lot better.

Next I would personally change Mamo's item to LO, and add Superpower. That's gonna be a huge help for you coverage wise, especially vs normal.

Lastly, this is more of an optional suggestion, but perhaps try Specs Froslass over Rotom. Yea its a good scarfer, but without consistent hail it can tend to be unreliable (plus you have Abomasnow already that gives Water a hard enough time). Froslass is gonna help you a ton by giving you a fighting immunity, a great con vs Psychic, and it won't slow down your team thanks to its pretty good base 110 speed stat! For you I'd highly recommend it, I think you'd like it man if you gave it a shot. ;)

Edit: Forgot since Aboma isn't Icy Rock anymoe, you may as well remove Blizzard from Kyurem-B/Walrein, or keep them if you think you can preserve Aboma for long enough.

These changes fundamentally change the nature of the team, forces an actual automatic loss to Psychic if I replace koff or Fire/Flying/Ice/Electric if I replace SR. M-Aboma does better against Water, yes, but it has just about the same matchup w/ Ground (switches in on the same things, switches out on the same things). The only thing Mega can do is double into hippo and set up hail, which 0 IV Quiet could do anyway.


252 SpA Choice Specs Froslass Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 148+ SpD Mew: 222-264 (54.9 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Shit barely 2hko's spdef mew and is the free-est hoopa-u switchin in the history of hoopa-u switchins.

252 SpA Choice Specs Froslass Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound: 114-135 (37.8 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Froslass Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Victini: 284-336 (83.2 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

If spdef mew does its very easy job of defogging against Ice (especially with koffless mamo), Tini can switch in on Froslass and get a free kill.

 

[Trichotomy]

i dont really have a rate since its a pretty nice team and grats on your peak but i just wanted to comment on your saying that ho steel is not an issue

first off skarm sets up rocks and ur not able to spin once they're set up due to doublade unless u like lead avalugg and repeatedly rapid spin in which case youll run out of pp before u kill anyways. if u dont lead avalugg then skarm gets up at least 2 hazards on everything on ur team unless u trick with rotom in which case it gets up the most important hazard anyways. magnezone pretty much wins when walrein is weakened by scizor wins anyways. once it gets to +2 u lose. i guess avalugg sort of eats up bps but it gets ohkeod by superpower 93.8% of the time which is the set most common on ho steel. then the rest of ur team just drops to +1 bp except rotom but u can easily sd up on it and eat up a tbolt. not to mention that heatran, doublade, and magnezone are also huge threats to ur whole team. i really dont see how you can "easily win" against ho steel, maybe provide a few replays or something.

anyways its a nice team, good luck, and grats on ur peak again

 

[average fella]

i dont really have a rate since its a pretty nice team and grats on your peak but i just wanted to comment on your saying that ho steel is not an issue

first off skarm sets up rocks and ur not able to spin once they're set up due to doublade unless u like lead avalugg and repeatedly rapid spin in which case youll run out of pp before u kill anyways. if u dont lead avalugg then skarm gets up at least 2 hazards on everything on ur team unless u trick with rotom in which case it gets up the most important hazard anyways. magnezone pretty much wins when walrein is weakened by scizor wins anyways. once it gets to +2 u lose. i guess avalugg sort of eats up bps but it gets ohkeod by superpower 93.8% of the time which is the set most common on ho steel. then the rest of ur team just drops to +1 bp except rotom but u can easily sd up on it and eat up a tbolt. not to mention that heatran, doublade, and magnezone are also huge threats to ur whole team. i really dont see how you can "easily win" against ho steel, maybe provide a few replays or something.

anyways its a nice team and grats on ur peak again

i usually lead mamoswine to get rocks up so magnezone bites the dust to an earth power and sciz can get worn down easier (58% is optimal for surf ohkoing), people always send doublade in to avalugg so i can recover freely, get rh off on it, and take a leap of faith and roar it (to hopefully a team member that cant ohko me) once its in walrein surf range (so its not a viable sack because it cant ss it). mag gets outsped and killed by kyurem, scizor absolutely requires you to keep avalugg healthy but considering doublade is needed to keep hazards off and is literally free health for roar lugg, its not a greatly difficult task keeping avalugg alive. there are a few 50/50's involved, but if you can do that (avalugg spinning on switch-in tran is a HUGE momentum gainer and can probably net you the game), i see no reason why this is as bad a matchup as, say, dark v ghost, fire v drag, or ice v fighting.

surprisingly, i havent gotten that many ho steel teams with this team, more of just losing to psy spam. here are a couple of replays of me playing the matchup with a glalie team against somewhat respectable players (lost respect for septicus after i beat him ice v steel but i still respect sjado) and winning.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/monotype-346349057
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/monotype-348438528

 

[Trichotomy]

i usually lead mamoswine to get rocks up so magnezone bites the dust to an earth power and sciz can get worn down easier (58% is optimal for surf ohkoing), people always send doublade in to avalugg so i can recover freely, get rh off on it, and take a leap of faith and roar it (to hopefully a team member that cant ohko me) once its in walrein surf range (so its not a viable sack because it cant ss it). mag gets outsped and killed by kyurem, scizor absolutely requires you to keep avalugg healthy but considering doublade is needed to keep hazards off and is literally free health for roar lugg, its not a greatly difficult task keeping avalugg alive. there are a few 50/50's involved, but if you can do that (avalugg spinning on switch-in tran is a HUGE momentum gainer and can probably net you the game), i see no reason why this is as bad a matchup as, say, dark v ghost, fire v drag, or ice v fighting.

surprisingly, i havent gotten that many ho steel teams with this team, more of just losing to psy spam. here are a couple of replays of me playing the matchup with a glalie team against somewhat respectable players (lost respect for septicus after i beat him ice v steel but i still respect sjado) and winning.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/monotype-346349057
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/monotype-348438528

ok so first off mag dies to ep even if you dont have rocks up lol. rocks arent a necessity since +2 scizor ohkos everything. now the truth is u dont even need to switch in doublade on avalugg, mag is a great switchin because, even if u had eq and decide to eq a skarm, avalanche is really necessary, and if u replace any other move then a bunch of stuff can easily win (recover means losing longevity, roar means scizor wins, rapid spin means rocks stay). im not really trying to argue with you, i just dont see how any decent ho can lose.

 

[average fella]

ok so first off mag dies to ep even if you dont have rocks up lol. rocks arent a necessity since +2 scizor ohkos everything. now the truth is u dont even need to switch in doublade on avalugg, mag is a great switchin because, even if u had eq and decide to eq a skarm, avalanche is really necessary, and if u replace any other move then a bunch of stuff can easily win (recover means losing longevity, roar means scizor wins, rapid spin means rocks stay). im not really trying to argue with you, i just dont see how any decent ho can lose.

to be completely honest, i agree with you, most of my wins against ho steel are due to matchup inexperience and not knowing my team. the instant steel players start adjusting to the ice meta is when i'll start consistently losing to steel. until then, steel people will keep expecting a mindless win (magnezone is a counterintuitive switch into avalugg, what if it has eq? despite it being the actual good switchin, people will still wonder this). good thing people still have an assumption scizor flat-out wins the matchup and will randomly whip it out and let it get owned.

tldr: i win against steel because many steel players are bad, or at least dont know how to fight ice