Thunderbolt vs Thunder

[Talpr0ne]

In Pokémon X and Pokémon Y Drizzle's rain lasts only 5 turns.
Thunder was used in gen5 Ubers essentially because, if you aren't running rain yourself, you would most likely fight a team with Kyogre, so Thunder was in almost every battle a 120 base power electric move with perfect accuracy.
In the 6th generation, althought Kyogre is still an excellent mon, his rain will not last for the whole battle, making Thunder looking unreliable compared to last generation. The accuracy is the same as Focus Blast, but with an important difference: very few mons learn Aura Sphere, while pretty much every mon with Thunder has Thunderbolt as well.

What would be your special Electric move of choice in this new metagame?

 

[Garchompi]

Kyogre is literally the only thing in ubers you want to hit with Thunder, and thanks to its Drizzle it's still a very reliable attack in ubers.
Non-STAB Thunderbolt is also pitifully weak so it won't cut it.
Thundurus-I is the only pokemon in ubers that should consider running Thunderbolt over Thunder.

 

[Donkey]

Kyogre is literally the only thing in ubers you want to hit with Thunder, and thanks to its Drizzle it's still a very reliable attack in ubers.
Non-STAB Thunderbolt is also pitifully weak so it won't cut it.
Thundurus-I is the only pokemon in ubers that should consider running Thunderbolt over Thunder.

Thunder hits so many things really hard in ubers even with the nerf. Tons of flying types. Para chance stops sweepers. Still a good move.

 

[clare]

Kyogre is literally the only thing in ubers you want to hit with Thunder, and thanks to its Drizzle it's still a very reliable attack in ubers.
Non-STAB Thunderbolt is also pitifully weak so it won't cut it.
Thundurus-I is the only pokemon in ubers that should consider running Thunderbolt over Thunder.

Xerneas can also run it to hit Ho-Oh; with investment in bulk +2 Thunderbolt isn't an OHKO.

 

[Manaphy]

Thunder should still be used because you can run Kyogre yourself, and most things you'll want to hit with it will be/have Kyogre as a teammate.

In Ubers you really need that extra power and paralysis chance when everything is so fast and bulky.

 

[Talpr0ne]

Xerneas can also run it to hit Ho-Oh; with investment in bulk +2 Thunderbolt isn't an OHKO.

On Xerneas i would never run an electric move, Thunder or Thunderbolt. I would rather pick Psyshock wich it Kyogre and Ho-oh as hard as Thunder and Thunderbolt, as well as nailing Poison Arceus.

 

[Haruno]

Thunder ohko's most ho oh while tbolt will never ohko ho oh at +2 SpA with xern. Guess that options clear

 

[clare]

On Xerneas i would never run an electric move, Thunder or Thunderbolt. I would rather pick Psyshock wich it Kyogre and Ho-oh as hard as Thunder and Thunderbolt, as well as nailing Poison Arceus.

+2 252+ SpA (custom) Thunder vs. 248 HP / 84 SpD Ho-Oh: 316-372 (76.14 - 89.63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA (custom) Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh: 211-249 (50.84 - 60%) -- 89.06% chance to 2HKO

Thunder does significantly more damage to Ho-Oh; Psyshock isn't even a guaranteed 2HKO.

 

[Haruno]

+2 252+ SpA (custom) Thunder vs. 248 HP / 84 SpD Ho-Oh: 316-372 (76.14 - 89.63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA (custom) Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh: 211-249 (50.84 - 60%) -- 89.06% chance to 2HKO

Thunder does significantly more damage to Ho-Oh; Psyshock isn't even a guaranteed 2HKO.

You make hitting with two 70% moves sound guaranteed

 

[clare]

You make hitting with two 70% moves sound guaranteed

Well you could hit it with Thunder as it comes in and then finish it off with Moonblast.

 

[Haruno]

70% of 2hko'ing > 89.06% chance to 2HKO

 

[An Okay Trainer]

Well you could hit it with Thunder as it comes in and then finish it off with Moonblast.

70%'s still too risky for a number of Trainers' comfort with no Rain Dance; with Ho-Oh or Yveltal I really wouldn't want to take the chance, but if I had Rain Dance on, chances are I'd also have a powerful Water-type out, making Thunder a bit redundant against Ho-Oh.

 

[Theorymon]

While Thunderbolt is a reasonable option this gen on a lot of Pokémon, I still think hitting Kyogre harder is hard to ignore, along with that kick ass paralysis rate. I'm building several kinds of teams atm, and I can see myself still sticking Thunder on Palkia for Kyogre.

 

[supercoven94]

Is Thunderbolt nerfed from 95 to 90 BP? If it is there are more reasons to prefer thunder, Kyogre will probably being one of the most used pokèmons even in this gen so if you run Thunder you can always hit him 'cause of drizzle, and the para rate can be very helpful to stop threats such HO-OH while hitting them super effectively.

 

[sammao]

Is Thunderbolt nerfed from 95 to 90 BP? If it is there are more reasons to prefer thunder, Kyogre will probably being one of the most used pokèmons even in this gen so if you run Thunder you can always hit him 'cause of drizzle, and the para rate can be very helpful to stop threats such HO-OH while hitting them super effectively.

Thunder is also nerfed from 120 to 110, same for Fire Blast and Hydro Pump btw.

 

[FrostFire]

Last gen, unless you were running Sun, Thunder was a no-brainer for obvious reasons. (Kyogre> All)
This gen, I think Thunder will still be the superior option most of the time, but because of the weather and base power changes, it's no longer *quite* as clear-cut. Because infinite rain is no longer a thing, Thunder is less reliable if you're not Kyogre, and it still faces bad acc. problems if sun is up. I suppose too, the power difference between Tbolt and Thunder is 20 now as opposed to 25 last gen (it's a pretty measly difference; I just say it for the sake of mentioning everything).

That said, 30% para is awesome, and Kyogre is one of the main targets of Thunder anyway. Also, you may need the extra power to hit some of the bulkier electric-weaks hard, like Ho-Oh. For me, I think the difference this gen is that Thunderbolt is now an option that you might, maybe, vaguely consider given the drizzle nerf, though Thunder will probably be better the majority of the time. That said, it also depends upon which KOs you can and can't get, which is something that's difficult to know until the meta develops.

 

[Fireburn]

I honestly would probably still use Thunder almost every time, Thunderbolt is just too weak to get the job done and 30% para chance is sweet. Rain makes up for the 70% accuracy somewhat, and Kyogre isn't exactly hard to put on a team (or even to find on your opponent's team).

 

[Ascension]

Well, if you have garbage luck like me, and 70% accuracy is more like 50% accuracy, then go with thunderbolt. On a more serious note I think it is largely dependent on the way the metagame shifts. It was so obvious to carry thunder over thunderbolt in the past generations because a 3rd of the teams you fought had Kyogre, and Drizzle lasted forever unless you had Groudon/Ttar. This generation, it seems like Ho Oh is going to be extremely popular, and as a result, Groudon is going to accompany it. Trying to hit with thunder in the sun is pretty much an exercise in futility, so if you are going to run thunder, you might as well have Kyogre somewhere on your team. It really depends on whether the metagame leans more towards the sun or the rain. Right now, personally, I prefer thunderbolt. But if thunderbolt is used enough, then Kyogre will be a better pokemon to use, usage will rise, and then thunder will be the superior option.

 

[IDW]

thunder without rain is still basically a focus blast. if you play correctly, you can make it into a more accurate move. but no matter what it is three times as likely to paralyze as TB is. what is gained by using TB over it?

 

[jim995]

thunder without rain is still basically a focus blast. if you play correctly, you can make it into a more accurate move. but no matter what it is three times as likely to paralyze as TB is. what is gained by using TB over it?

Thunder's accuracy in the sun is an absolutely pathetic 50%, and it fails to OHKO Pokemon it's supposed to as well (I'm looking at you, Ho-oh). However, I agree with the general sentiment that TBolt is $### weak without STAB.

 

[effyouzion]

Kyogre -- Thunder (duh)
Palkia -- Thunder (you are a Kyogre check, rain will be up for that)
Xerneas -- Thunderbolt or rock slide (thunder is a 2hko on bulky Ho-oh, might as well use the more accurate moves)

 

[midend]

A niche way is to defog the switch in, then drop the thunder on the unsuspecting foe with the boosted accuracy from the evasion drop. It MIGHT work on certain arceus formes, but i dunno much about ubers so blehh haaha

 

[Taaj]

A niche way is to defog the switch in, then drop the thunder on the unsuspecting foe with the boosted accuracy from the evasion drop. It MIGHT work on certain arceus formes, but i dunno much about ubers so blehh haaha

Wha... Whaaat. That's one of the more gimmicky things I've seen, it's really not practical in any way as your using two turns for a single move which actually doesn't have terrible accuracy in the first place, and then, what user of Thunder also runs defog?

 

[midend]

Wha... Whaaat. That's one of the more gimmicky things I've seen, it's really not practical in any way as your using two turns for a single move which actually doesn't have terrible accuracy in the first place, and then, what user of Thunder also runs defog?

Zapdos, mew

And yes i know that is gimmicky, but mew can use it as an unexpected move to nail random stuff that also happens to be weak to thunder...
Really, thunder is very risky without an accuracy or evasion modifier

 

[ChaosNemesis]

Thunder has a 30% para chanse, that alone makes it better than TBolt even factoring the shaky accuracy.