Type Optimisation

[Origin0]

While I'm here, are you allowed to do a mon that has already been done? Just realized I did that (but if not I can change it I'm sure)

No, you can’t do one that’s already been done, so you’ll have to change it.
Also, reserving Ground/Grass Exeggutor, Ground/Fire Groudon, Ground/Ice Mamoswine

Pokemon: Exeggutor
Type:

BST: 95 / 75 / 95 / 130 / 95 / 80 | BST: 570 (-20 Atk, +10 Def, +5 SpA, +20 SpD, +25 Spe)
Abilities: Chlorophyll / Solar Power (HA)
New Moves: Earth Power, Power Gem, Growth
Removed Moves: N/A
Justification/Niche: Special Sun sweeper/wallbreaker. Its abilities allow it to function as either a fast sweeper or a powerful wallbreaker in sun. Power Gem allows it to hit opposing Flying-types and other airborne Pokemon that resist its Grass STAB. Its typing helps sun teams since it isn't weak to Water and can block Volt Switch and Thunder Wave.
Sample Moveset:
Exeggutor @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll / Solar Power
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Modest / Timid Nature
- Solar Beam / Giga Drain
- Earth Power
- Power Gem
- Growth / Synthesis

Pokemon: Groudon
Type:

BST: 100 / 130 / 125 / 60 / 80 / 75 | BST: 570 (-20 Atk, -15 Def, -40 SpA, -10 SpD, -15 Spe)
Abilities: Drought
New Moves: Solar Blade, Heat Crash, Shore Up
Removed Moves: N/A
Justification/Niche: Sun setter/physical sweeper. Pretty much a weaker Primal Groudon that can't go special and isn't immune to Water moves. What's different is it gets reliable recovery with Shore Up, along with two moves that synergize well with sun and itself (it's the fourth heaviest Pokemon). Solar Blade allows it to hit bulky Water-types and Ground-types, while Heat Crash provides a stronger physical Fire STAB than Fire Punch without the recoil that would come with gaining Flare Blitz.
Sample Moveset:
Groudon @ Life Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Heat Crash
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance / Shore Up / Solar Blade

Pokemon: Mamoswine
Type:

BST: 110 / 130 / 80 / 90 / 80 / 80 | BST: 570 (+20 SpA, +20 SpD)
Abilities: Refrigerate / Snow Cloak / Thick Fat (HA)
New Moves: Slack Off, Zen Headbutt
Removed Moves: N/A
Justification/Niche: Physical sweeper. Refrigerate provides a stronger Ice STAB while Thick Fat still provides more switch in opportunities. Special Attack was increased in case you want to run Freeze-Dry to hit bulky Water-types.
Sample Moveset:
Mamoswine @ Life Orb
Ability: Refrigerate / Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Happiness: 255
Naive Nature
- Return / Icicle Crash
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Freeze-Dry / Slack Off / Knock Off

 

[Jucherz]

i love that golurk, but there unfortunately remain two points of unfortunateness
if huge power is to work, nerfing is the way, but it is banned, for reasons like this
252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Donphan Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Alakazam-Mega: 250-294 (99.6 - 117.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Donphan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 48 Def Ferrothorn: 335-395 (95.1 - 112.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Donphan Icicle Crash vs. 248 HP / 104+ Def Celesteela: 348-409 (87.6 - 103%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

also, you only get three new moves per mon (but you can remove flavor moves and won't end up changed too much optimization-wise)

Fixed everything

 

[Gojiratar]

Gojiratar's Poison/Bug Vespiquen
BST: 80 HP (+10) / 115 ATK (+) / 132 DEF (+30) / 50 SpA (-30) / 132 SpD (+30) / 61 Spe (+21) | 570 BST
Abilities: Magic Guard / Intimidate | Technician
New Moves: Knock Off, Earthquake, Gunk Shot

Samtendo made this one.

 

[koista12]

Pokemon: Torkoal
Type: Fire / Ground
BST: 100 / 50 / 135 / 120 / 110 / 60 | 570 BST
Abilities: Water Absorb / Drought (Serene Grace)
New Moves: Power Gem, Shore Up, Spikes
Justification / Niche: Torkoal gets quite an upgrade as a Sun team supporter here - The ground type cancels out it's Rock weakness, and in tandem with reliable recovery and Spikes allows it to fulfill all of a Sun teams hazard setting and removal needs. It has two other, more situational abilities as well - Serene Grace lets it spread burns accross the opponent's team, and Water Absorb let's it completely nullifying its Water weakness, becoming an excellent switch in to Toxapex and Greninja.

Pokemon: Aurorus
Type: Ground / Ice
BST: 130 / 60 / 65 / 130 / 83 / 102 | 570 BST
Abilities: Snow Warning / Refridgerate (Queenly Majesty)
New Moves: Aurora Veil, Power Gem
Justification / Niche: Aurorus provides Hail with the fearsome Aurora Veil setter it's been waiting for, boasting a superb STAB combo, great special bulk, and enough speed to pressure opponents and create Veil opportunities. On the off chance you don't wanna use Snow Warning, Refridgerate give powerful Hyper Voices that go through subs, while Queenly Majesty protects Aurorus from the priority moves it hates.

 

[Samtendo09]

Pokemon: Gogoat
Type:

BST: 123 / 120 / 82 / 62 / 81 / 102 | BST: 570 (+20 Atk, +20 Def, -25 SpA, +34 Spe)
Abilities: Rock Head / Chlorophyll | Grass Pelt (HA)
New Moves: Wood Hammer, Head Smash, Swords Dance
Removed Moves: N/A
Justification/Niche: Set-up sweeper with Rock Head to make great use of Wood Hammer for strong STAB and Head Smash as anti-Flying coverage, or go into a Sun team with Chlorophyll (with either Mega Charizard Y or Drought Bellosom) to go even faster. Grass Pelt can be used more thanks to Gogoat's improved Defense (82), allowing it to team up more safely with Tapu Bulu while able to tank physical hits much better in Grassy Terrain, as well as taking care of pesky Poison-type and Fire-type (especially with Choice Scarf) that will give Tapu Bulu a hard time.

Pokemon: Flareon
Type:

BST: 100 / 130 / 70 / 65 / 110 / 95 | BST: 570 (+35 HP, +10 Def, SpA and Spe are swapped (95 <> 65))
Abilities: Flash Fire | Dry Skin (HA)
New Moves: Earthquake, Trop Kick, Swords Dance
Removed Moves: N/A
Justification/Niche: Poor Flareon... a runt among Eeveelutions, its Guts is undermined by being a Fire-type, is too slow to viably sweep, and its HP is too low to make its Special Defense any useful. With increased HP and Speed, as well as gaining access to Swords Dance, with Dry Skin giving much needed protection against Water-type, with Trop Kick in turn makes good coverage against both Water and Ground-type threats, while also lowering their Attack by such move and may punish any switch-ins reliant to physical moves.

Pokemon: Golurk
Type:

BST: 89 / 124 / 80 / 115 / 80 / 82 | BST: 570 (+65 SpA, +27 Spe)
Abilities: Sand Rush / Slush Rush | No Guard (HA)
New Moves: Shift Gear, Blizzard, Nasty Plot
Removed Moves: N/A
Justification/Niche: Set-up physical sweeper or mixed No Guard wallbreaker, Golurk's hilariously good Physical and Special learnset allows Golurk to fit in either Sand or Hail Team, or run No Guard and mess with Dynamic Punch, Blizzard, Focus Blast, Stone Edge and Charge Beam, especially for Special sets with Nasty Plot, making it a deceptively unpredictable Pokémon that will not tell what moveset it will have until one of its move is on action.

 

[Gojiratar]

CoolMan6001 's Ice/Bug Sandslash Alola
BST: 75 / 115 / 95 / 70 / 85 / 130
Abilities: Slush Rush / Skill Link / Tough Claws
New Moves: Pin Missile, Rock Blast, Thunder Punch

Pokemon: Alolan Sandslash
Type:

BST: 120 / 130 / 120 / 25 / 80 / 95 | BST: 570 (+45 HP, +30 Atk, +15 SpD, +30 Spe)
Abilities: Sand Rush / Slush Rush | Skill Link (HA)
New Moves: Spikes, U-Turn, Bullet Seed
Removed Moves: N/A
Justification/Niche: Wallbreaker with Refrigerate or fast sweeper in either Sandstorm team (Sand Rush) or Hail team (Slush Rush). Hone Claws help fix the less-than accurate Icicle Crash, while Skill Link allows a full five Icicle Spear and Bullet Seed. U-Turn for offensive Pivot, and Spikes in order to set up an entry hazard while forcing pesky Electric-types to switch away. It also have good physical bulk, allowing it to take a hit from faster Physical threats that lack of a Super Effective move. Its Special Defense is still mediocre in comparison, which means Special Attacking Fire-type, Water-type and Bellosom (the only Grass-type not afraid of Ice-type and have good Special Attack) will put a wrench into it.

 

[Samtendo09]

Gojiratar
Augh. Let me fix it.

EDIT: Replaced my Alolan Sandslash submission by a Ice/Ground Golurk. Not too flavor but at least Golurk can learn Ice Beam, Icy Wind and Ice Punch.

 

[Solarblade]

koista12 Sorry you can't use Desolate Land as an ability for your Torkoal, as it is a legendary-exclusive move (see rules in first post)

Pokemon: Delibird
Type: Ground/Ice
BST: 85 / 50 / 75 / 125 / 105 / 130
Abilities: Regenerator / Snow Warning / Thick Fat
New Moves: Earth Power, Volt Switch, Heal Bell
Justification / Niche: Well..it is in the Field egg group which I sort of associate with Ground. Anyway, since Mamoswine is a physical Ground/Ice Pokemon, this one is more special/support-orientated. Earth Power for Ground STAB options and Volt Switch for support and to mimic Boltbeam coverage. Ground/Ice is great offensive coverage and its Electric immunity protects it from paralysis.

With access to Regenerator, Rapid Spin, Defog, and Rock neutrality, Delibird also makes a nice hazard control Pokemon, especially for Hail teams. Plus it can also lay its own hazards with Spikes and also set up Aurora Veil when using Snow Warning. Thick Fat is an interesting defensive ability, to neutralise Fire weakness and let it resist Ice types again- and both of these types are usually specially-orientated so it can soak it up with its Special Defense. That said, Delibird is weak to common priority moves such as Aqua Jet, Mach Punch and Bullet Punch, so watch out for those.

Pokemon: Maractus
Type: Ground/Grass
BST: 85 / 125 / 110 / 60 / 70 / 120
Abilities: Drought / Water Absorb / Iron Barbs
New Moves: Earthquake, Rock Slide, Fire Lash
Justification / Niche: Maractus actually has a pretty interesting physical movepool (Sucker Punch, Drain Punch, Knock Off) so I turned it into a fast physical attacker. The typing resists Rock/Ground attacking moves, which are mostly physical so I felt a physical stat build was the way to go. Drought makes it a non-Rock weak sun setter while Water Absorb protects it from Scald burn fishing while granting a Water immunity to sand/sun teams. If using Water Absorb, it can also be a nice check for Rain teams as it is immune to Water and Electric although it has to watch out for Ice moves. Iron Barbs is partly flavour, but also works if you use Maractus as a physical check against contact moves.

Earthquake is obligatory STAB, while Rock Slide lets it deals damage to Flying/Ice switch-ins. Fire Lash acts as a pseudo-Fire STAB when using Drought, and is also a supportive move if the stat drop kicks in.

Pokemon: Typhlosion
Type: Ground/Fire
BST: 80 / 90 / 75 / 115 / 85 / 125
Abilities: Drought / Sheer Force / No Guard
New Moves: Thunderbolt, Earth Power, Energy Ball
Justification / Niche: Attack, attack, attack! Typhlosion becomes an offensive powerhouse with the new Ground STAB and aims to demolish teams with high Speed and Special Attack. Other moves are coverage moves to catch Water/Grass type switch-ins. Energy Ball is chosen so it gets a Sheer Force boost. Drought makes it a Sun team supporter, with the Electric immunity no-selling any Thunder users in Rain teams, as well keeping him safe from Paralysis. No Guard can be a fun set with Inferno/Focus Blast, but Sheer Force is usually superior.

Hopefully this isn't as overwhelming as say, Zangoose, since Typhlosion has no priority moves, no boosting moves and is susceptible to Poison, Spikes/Toxic Spikes and is still only neutral to SR. Plus Water moves in particular will extinguish its flames really fast. Defenses have also been lowered to make it easier to counter and it's Sp Atk is 'only' 115 because all of it's abilities enhance its moves in some way- plus it has access to items such as Life Orb to further enhance the power of is moves.

 

[G-Luke]

Man I'm so lazy I'm gonna legit copy paste stuff that I submitted and didn't win from OptiMons

Simisage [Type-Optimized] ;)
Abilities: Rough Skin / Moxie
Stats: 80 HP / 125 Atk / 87 Def / 80 SpA / 73 SpD / 120 Spe | BST: 565
Added Moves: Earthquake, Swords Dance, Power Whip

Simisear [Type-Optimized] ;)
Abilities: Flash Fire / Sheer Force (HA)
Stats: 80 HP / 115 Atk / 73 Def / 122 SpA / 82 SpD / 105 Spe | BST: 565
Added Moves: Earth Power, Earthquake, Energy Ball

Simipour [Type-Optimized] ;)
Abilities: Storm Drain / Unaware (HA)
Stats: 80 HP / 60 Atk / 120 Def / 105 SpA / 115 SpD / 85 Spe | BST: 565
Added Moves: Stealth Rock, Freeze Dry, Recover

#CleanSweep #FreeMaSimis #MonkeySeeMonkeyDo #CoolestMonkeysInTheJungle #ApesTogetherStrong #GorrillaGrodd #Trump #DonkeyKong #KingKong #OtherFamousPopCultureApes #CrossoverChaos #NotTheActualCrossoverChaosPetModTho

 

[Solarblade]

Had a busy week so it's a bit late, but voting opens now

Use this template and try to have a vote for each one so we have less tiebreakers.

Ground/Grass: Someone's Pokemon
Ground/Fire: Someone's Pokemon
Ground/Ice: Someone's Pokemon

Since next slate is going to be the nerfing slate, we won't do a type vote. Instead, just say which needs a nerf besides Arcanine, Zangoose, Araquanid and Hariyama

Voting ends 3rd August

 

[Origin0]

Ground/Grass: Jucherz's Cacturne
Ground/Fire: Solarblade's Typhlosion
Ground/Ice: koista12's Aurorus

 

[koista12]

Ground/Grass: Samtendo09's Gogoat
Ground/Fire: Origin0's Groudon
Ground/Ice: G-Luke's Simipour

 

[earl]

Cresselia is pretty anti-fun and could probably stand to take a nerf

 

[Samtendo09]

Cresselia is pretty anti-fun and could probably stand to take a nerf

Seconded it. Looking at Cresselia's old bulk (120 / 120 / 120), the Type-Optimized Cresselia's bulk (120 / 140 / 105) is actually better than the prior's one in that the lower Special Defense can be fixed with Calm Mind, and the Fairy-type gives it one less weakness and a more reliable STAB. As a result, we got a more annoying Cresselia to deal with in addition of being capable to counter sweep if allowed to use Calm Mind enough times.

Serene Grace does not help the situation; it means that Cresselia can spam Lava Plume to a near-guaranteed burn in addition to passable damage, which can screw up most setup Physical Sweepers, and also cause Moonblast to be a nuisance or even a danger to Pokémon that relies on Special Attacks, even Tapu Lele.

 

[Solarblade]

Cresselia is pretty anti-fun and could probably stand to take a nerf

Yeah to be honest I was going to suggest Cresselia as well during my vote, based on what I saw in the tournament. Thanks for the input, looks like it is a valid concern that needs nerfing

As for my actual votes

Ground/Grass: Origin0's Exeggutor
Ground/Fire: G-Luke's Simisear (although Samtendo09's Flareon is a close second)
Ground/Ice: koista12's Aurorus

And another possible nomination for nerfing is Glalie, although it doesn't get as much use/exposure as say, Zangoose/Hariyama, it can still be threatening with 160 Atk/Spd with either Sturdy+Shell Smash/Adaptability boosting it further. It is sort of kept in control by Steels so not sure if this warrants a nerfing yet since it doesn't see as much use.

edit: huh, my post went back to the saved post. Changed back my votes to what I actually voted.

 

[Gojiratar]

Ground/Grass: Jucherz's Cacturne
Ground/Fire: Solarblade's Typhlosion
Ground/Ice: koista12's Aurorus

 

[G-Luke]

Ground/Grass: Jucherz's Cacturne
Ground/Fire: Samtendo09's Flareon
Ground/Ice: koista12's Aurorus

 

[earl]

Personally I think Glalie is ok, at least at the moment (altho it had Magic Guard fsr when I fought one) as the prevalence of powerful priority totally dumps on it and makes it hard to pull off.

 

[Samtendo09]

I'm gonna say that Araquanid's Bulk Up and intensively high Special Defense is pretty much the last straw, considering the last round of the finals in the Type Optimization rendering it more difficult to take down once set up than it should be.

 

[Solarblade]

Alright, voting has ended.

Congratulations to the winners: Jucherz 's Ground/Grass Cacturne, Solarblade's Ground/Fire Typhlosion and koista12's Ground/Ice Aurorus!

Now we will open the Rebalancing Slate-

The candidates are: Arcanine, Araquanid, Hariyama, Cresselia and Zangoose.

You can do as many changes as you like to nerf them as long as they are still 570 BST and have only 3 new moves from their original form.

Samtendo09 Agreed. Also I think Reuniclus hasn't been updated yet in the server, hence Knock Off being effective in the first battle. charizard8888 could you just confirm up to which Pokemon/slate is in the server?

Thanks for all the participants though, and special thanks to charizard8888 for making the battles possible. Now that we have a better idea of how centralising some of these threats are, please keep in mind to not have overwhelming stat spreads in the new nerfed pokemon.

I might also tag the original submitters for these Pokemon, so they can have a chance to re-balance their winning entries. PrincessGardevoir 's Araquanid, G-Luke's Arcanine, Samtendo09's Hariyama, Gojiratar's Zangoose and Tiksi's Cresselia

End of submissions will be the 10th of August

 

[Samtendo09]

Alright, voting has ended.

Congratulations to the winners: Jucherz 's Ground/Grass Cacturne, Solarblade's Ground/Fire Typhlosion and koista12's Ground/Ice Aurorus!

Now we will open the rebalancing slate-

The candidates are: Arcanine, Araquanid, Hariyama, Cresselia and Zangoose.

You can do as many changes as you like to nerf them as long as they are still 590 BST and have only 3 new moves from their original form,

You mean 570 BST? I do have an idea for each of them, such as removing Fire Lash for Arcanine, reducing Araquanid's bulk, make Hariyama a little slower and reduce Special Defense to allows other Special Tanks to shine more, swap Cresselia's Defense and Special Defense so that Physical Wallbreakers can have an easier time and reduce the SpA to make it more passive, and remove Zangoose's Guts and moderately reduce the Speed.

 

[Solarblade]

You mean 570 BST? I do have an idea for each of them, such as removing Fire Lash for Arcanine, reducing Araquanid's bulk, make Hariyama a little slower and reduce Special Defense to allows other Special Tanks to shine more, swap Cresselia's Defense and Special Defense so that Physical Wallbreakers can have an easier time and reduce the SpA to make it more passive, and remove Zangoose's Guts and moderately reduce the Speed.

Yeah, sorry I mistyped!

Also for an easier resource, here are the current Pokemon that need nerfing:

Samtendo09's Fighting Hariyama
BST: 150 / 130 / 100 / 20 / 100 / 70
Abilities: Thick Fat / Guts / Unaware (HA)
New Moves: Mach Punch, Slack Off, Drain Punch

G-Luke's Fire Arcanine
BST: 100 / 120 / 80 / 75 / 90 / 105 = 570 BST
Ability: Fur Coat / Reckless / Justified (HA)
New Moves: Swords Dance, Taunt, Fire Lash

Tiksi 's Fairy Cresselia
BST: 120 / 50 / 140 / 95 / 105 / 60 (BST: 570)
Abilities: Serene Grace
New Moves: Roost, Refresh, Lava Plume

Gojiratar's Normal/Steel Zangoose
BST: 90 Hp /130 Atk /80 Def /60 /80 SpD/130 Spe =570 BST
Abilities: Defiant/Guts/Tough Claws
New Moves: Bullet Punch/Meteor Mash/Drain Punch
Removed Moves: Giga Drain

PrincessGardevoir's Water/Bug Araquanid
Stats: 100 / 90 / 120 / 50 / 172 / 38 = 570
Abilities: Water Bubble / Drizzle / Regenerator (HA)
New Moves: Swords Dance, Bulk Up, Spikes


​

Some personal suggestions could be removing Araquanid's Bulk Up and reverting his Attack. Water Bubble just takes it to extremes. Agreed that Guts on Zangoose is really threatening with STAB Facade, and it definitely needs a lower offensive stat spread. Lava Plume + Serene Grace is a bit overbearing on Cresselia. Personally I like the idea of Hariyama having some Special Defense, but both Defenses should be lowered in comparison to its HP. Arcanine needs to pick between Fur Coat or Fire Lash, but not both.

 

[Adeleine]

from what i've heard having lava plume AND cm/moonblast threat has been the biggest problem w/ cress. simplest solution seems to be to not have lava plume, we could also balance the defenses (but i'd still prefer physdef to be higher if possible: 130/115?) to make it less overbearing physdef wise for a CM user. if any of you have fun but less broken ideas for the third moveslot Night Daze i'm all ears.

 

[Solarblade]

from what i've heard having lava plume AND cm/moonblast threat has been the biggest problem w/ cress. simplest solution seems to be to not have lava plume, we could also balance the defenses but i'd still prefer physdef to be higher if possible (130/115? 125/120?) to make it less overbearing physdef wise for a CM user. if any of you have fun but less broken ideas for the third moveslot Night Daze i'm all ears.

I like the idea of a physically defensive Fairy type as well, since they are mostly special-based.

Maybe it's just a bit too high currently once you factor in bulk from Burns plus a boosted Calm Mind i guess. (120/140 is pretty high physical bulk) But yea Lava Plume is one of the easier fixes

Alternatively, maybe giving in an extra ability could make it so not every Cresselia is a pain to face if you have the wrong team. Might also give it variety in terms of being fun

 

[Adeleine]

Another ability could be quite fun... Forewarn? Pressure? Competitive? Another good idea?