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Tyranitar (Analysis)
- Thread starter Ray Jay
- Start date
Ok I talked it over with my fellow QC members and we decided to change a few things.
-Change the set order of the last 4 sets. We decided on this ordering:
Thats it really, do that and you can consider this approved.
QC APPROVED (1/3)
-Change the set order of the last 4 sets. We decided on this ordering:
- Choice Band
- Boah
- Choice Scarf
- Dragon Dance
Thats it really, do that and you can consider this approved.
QC APPROVED (1/3)
Bloo
Banned deucer.
What PK said. Though, there's one thing I'd like to add: mention Ice Punch in the AC section of the Choice Scarf set. Why Ice Punch over Ice Beam? Let's see:
So, as you can see, Ice Punch is better overall, with the exception of hitting Gliscor for less damage than Ice Beam. That's all I have to say, nice job.
QC APPROVED (2/3)
Ice Punch from Jolly ScarfTar vs Garchomp: 97.2% - 115.1%
Ice Beam from Jolly ScarfTar vs Garchomp: 76% - 89.4%
Ice Punch from Jolly ScarfTar vs Landlos: 115.4% - 136.7%
Ice Beam from Jolly ScarfTar vs Landlos: 89% - 105.3%
Ice Punch from Jolly ScarfTar vs 252 HP / 252 Def Impish Gliscor: 58.8% - 70.1%
Ice Beam from Jolly ScarfTar vs 252 HP / 252 Def Impish Gliscor: 89% - 105.3%
Ice Beam from Jolly ScarfTar vs Garchomp: 76% - 89.4%
Ice Punch from Jolly ScarfTar vs Landlos: 115.4% - 136.7%
Ice Beam from Jolly ScarfTar vs Landlos: 89% - 105.3%
Ice Punch from Jolly ScarfTar vs 252 HP / 252 Def Impish Gliscor: 58.8% - 70.1%
Ice Beam from Jolly ScarfTar vs 252 HP / 252 Def Impish Gliscor: 89% - 105.3%
So, as you can see, Ice Punch is better overall, with the exception of hitting Gliscor for less damage than Ice Beam. That's all I have to say, nice job.
QC APPROVED (2/3)
I also think that you should change the names of the first two sets to "Specially Defensive (Mixed)" and "Specially Defensive (Phsycial)", simply because last generation the name MixTar was associated with an offensive set (and can be confused with Boah).
Add/Change
Delete
GP Check 2/2
Delete
Tyranitar
QC: 3/3 (PK Gaming, Bloo, Iconic)
GP: 1/2 (Zystral)
[Overview]
<p>Whether or not you choose to accept it, weather is quite a dominant force in the OU metagame. Many battles revolve around finding the right time to summon your weather while trying to keep the opponent from doing the same. For this reason, there will never be a dearth of Tyranitar in BW. Courtesy of its ability, Sand Stream, Tyranitar is one of two Pokemon capable of summoning permanent Sandstorm, and one of only five permanent weather summoners in OU. While sandstorm was always a force to be reckoned with in DPP, the addition of fantastic new sandstorm abusers such as Excadrill and Landorus send Tyranitar to an even higher priority spot an any team into the metagame has dramatically enhanced Tyranitar's usage. Tyranitar is no slouch on its own either; a 134 base Attack and 95 base Special Attack combined with a fantastic offensive movepool mean it can often break down the counters to the aforementioned sand abusers.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, there are some major metagame additions that simply make Tyranitar squirm. For starters, Tyranitar's 4x weakness to Fighting-type moves is now more exploitable than ever due to the addition of many extremely powerful Fighting-types. All around, its typing isn't that great defensively, bringing a whopping six weaknesses to the table, often compounding some of the weaknesses sandstorm teams already have. Tyranitar's 61 base Speed isn't doing it any favors either; the addition of many quick Pokemon means Tyranitar is struggling to keep up even more than last generation. Thankfully, Tyranitar still packs truly impressive defensive stats, and serves as a fabulous special wall due to the Special Defense boost offered from Sandstorm to Rock-types.</p>
[SET]
name: Mixed Attacker
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Crunch
move 3: Fire Blast
move 4: Ice Beam / Superpower
item: Leftovers
nature: Sassy
evs: 252 HP / 180 SpA / 76 SpD
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Tyranitar is often seen sporting a mixed set, and for good reason. Tyranitar fills in many valuable roles on the team, including weather summoner, Stealth Rock support provider, mixed attacker, and special wall. Crunch is the most reliable STAB move available for this set, and does incredible damage to Ghost- and Psychic-types. Fire Blast combines with Crunch nicely, hitting common Steel-types such as Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Foretress who would otherwise love to set up in front of Tyranitar.</p>
<p>Ice Beam is an all around fine useful coverage move, as many OU Pokemon that pose a huge threat to Tyranitar, such as Garchomp, Landorus, and even Gliscor, will not enjoy switching into a 4x effective Ice Beam. However, Superpower is very viable as well, as it allows you to take on opposing Tyranitar or a courageous Terrakion wanting to set up on you. Ideally, Tyranitar would love both of these moves for maximum coverage; if another member of the team is carrying Stealth Rock, than it is recommended to replace Stealth Rock with the appropriate move.</p>
[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
<p>The spread given is generally bulkier to sponge special attacks in conjunction with the sandstorm boost. If one wants to sweep with Tyranitar, he or she one can utilize a more offensive spread of 56 Atk / 252 SpA / 200 Spe; however, the drop in bulk is noticeable. Although Leftovers is generally the best all around item, it is certainly not the only option. Chople Berry is viable if you wish to withstand an opposing Deoxys-S's Superpower, a Focus Blast from Virizion or Reuniclus, and occasionally Terrakion's Close Combat. While holding an Air Balloon, Tyranitar can act as a makeshift Gliscor or Landorus check.</p>
<p>Fighting-types pummel Tyranitar with their 4x effective physical attacks and can often switch in easily. Bulky Water-types generally don't mind anything Tyranitar is packing here, either. Reuniclus can serve as a good teammate, as it handles Fighting-types with ease, enjoys sandstorm to damage the enemy while enjoying protection from protecting itself with Magic Guard, and can set up Trick Room to benefit both Tyranitar and itself. Virizion can take on bulky Water-types with ease, often forcing them out and getting some sort of boost via Calm Mind or Swords Dance in the process. Meanwhile, Landorus and Excadrill both love having Tyranitar as a partner as they get a huge boost from the sand and Tyranitar can deal with some of their main counters.</p>
[SET]
name: Specially Defensive
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Crunch
move 3: Pursuit
move 4: Superpower
item: Leftovers
nature: Careful / Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>While Tyranitar's stats may not immediately scream "Wall", the Special Defense boost garnered by Sandstorm allows it to switch into most special attacks with ease. Stealth Rock provides great support for the team, ruining the fun of hampering Volcarona and the genies. Crunch is the most reliable STAB move here, and deals copious amounts of damage to Ghost- and Psychic-types, who often rely on their Special Attack. However, should you predict a switch on the opponent's side, Pursuit puts them in a checkmate position.</p>
<p>Superpower rounds off the coverage, allowing you to face opposing Tyranitar and Terrakion. Careful is the nature of choice here, as it raises Tyranitar's already great Special Defense to a level that is all but obnoxious. However, Tyranitar's offensive prowess is never to be ignored. For this reason, Adamant is also an acceptable choice, and allows a 2HKO with Crunch on max HP, max Defense Reuniclus.</p>
[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
<p>If Stealth Rock is already being handled by a teammate, Ice Beam or Thunder Wave can go in its spot. Ice Beam is effective at hitting Gliscor and Thundurus, while a carefully predicted Thunder Wave on the switch cripples almost all of Tyranitar's checks. Again, Chople Berry or Air Balloon could be used if a particular attack type is threatening to the team, but this is generally less applicable to this set as the Leftovers recovery is a godsend when switching into repeated attacks.</p>
<p>Tyranitar never likes Fighting-types, and even more of them love to switch into this set and start setting up. Due to lack of coverage compared to the previous set, many physical walls can often come in unscathed, and many can even OHKO Tyranitar. Typing-wise Considering type synergy, Reuniclus is always a good option as a teammate. Not only is it unharmed by the sandstorm, it soaks Fighting-type assaults while Tyranitar doesn't mind Ghost- and Dark-type moves aimed at Reuniclus. Further, Reuniclus doesn't have much trouble setting up on many physical walls (assuming they cannot phaze it out).</p>
[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: Stone Edge
move 2: Crunch
move 3: Pursuit
move 4: Aqua Tail
item: Choice band
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 36 Atk / 220 SpD
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>What this set lacks in coverage, it makes up for with raw power. With a behemoth Attack stat and decent enough neutral coverage courtesy of two powerful STABs, it is only natural that a Choice Band set be proposed. Stone Edge, although sometimes painfully inaccurate, puts a large dent in pretty much anything that doesn't resist it. Crunch and Pursuit form an effective combo to trap Ghost- and Psychic-types, although since you are locked on one move, it is generally easier for them to get out safely.</p>
<p>Finally, Aqua Tail is chosen to round out the coverage. It allows Tyranitar to be locked into a move that hits all of Hippowdon, Gliscor, Landorus, and Terrakion, while still not falling prey to Air Balloon users. It is important to note that the raw power of this set means that even many walls will be hard pressed to stay in. For example, Skarmory, especially Specially Defensive variants, will no longer like switching in for fear of Stone Edge. It is in this manner that this set is to be played differently from the others.</p>
[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
<p>The EV spread allows Choice Band to do the talking for Attack while is aimed at giving Tyranitar great bulk for repeated switch-ins, while Tyranitar's terrific base Attack wields tremendous power even with little investment thanks to Choice Band. Max Attack is generally not as viable for a few reasons. First, locking itself into one move means Tyranitar needs to be coming in and out repeatedly switching, and thus taking repeated special assaults. Further, max Attack is just plain overkill when you can still obtain the necessary KOes and have added bulk even when focusing on bulk. Superpower has some viability in the last slot to hit Ferrothorn and Hydreigon, while still popping Air Balloon users, but it is a generally inferior option.</p>
<p>It should come as no surprise that Fighting-types force out Tyranitar and set themselves up to ravage your team. Once again, Reuniclus gets a mention here for fitting in with Tyranitar on multiple levels of compatibility. Landorus and Excadrill enjoy the permanent Sandstorm, as always, but additionally enjoy this set's ability to knock out Skarmory with some decent prediction. Heatran can also work as a partner, as it easily takes on the physical walls that Tyranitar has trouble with.</p>
[SET]
name: TyraniBoah (SubPunch)
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Focus Punch
move 3: Fire Blast / Ice Beam
move 4: Crunch
item: Leftovers
nature: Quiet
evs: 252 HP / 60 Atk / 176 SpA / 20 Spe
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Because of its soaring offensive stats, it is only natural that most checks arise to Tyranitar as they resist any of the moves it can pack on a set. However, t With the combination of Substitute and Focus Punch, allows Tyranitar is able to beat many common switch-ins, including Terrakion, Hydreigon, Blissey, opposing Tyranitar, Chansey, and Heatran. Crunch serves as mainly as a filler move on this set, as it serves as though it supplies reliable STAB and still hits like a truck to those who don't resist it.</p>
<p>The third slot is really up for grabs on this set. Fire Blast is important, as this set is otherwise completely walled by any Steel-type who can handle a Focus Punch. However, Ice Beam is also viable if the team needs to hit has problems against Hippowdon, Gliscor, and Landorus. As for EVs, 252 HP EVs are the most important thing here, as they allow Tyranitar to set up 101 HP Substitutes. In other words, Blissey and Chansey will not be able to crack through break the Substitutes with Seismic Toss. A Quiet nature is preferred, as it increases Tyranitar's hits from the special spectrum Special Attack while still not sacrificing any of its defensive capabilities.</p>
[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
<p>Thunderbolt could be used over Fire Blast or Ice Beam, as it hits bulky Water-types and maintains coverage against Skarmory. However, this it is generally an inferior option as Tyranitar has no problem hitting most bulky Water-types with the above set. Gyarados is a problem, but Jellicent is unable to stand up to Crunch. Generally speaking, bulky Water-types have lost ground in BW because of Ferrothorn, giving the threats hit by Fire Blast and Ice Beam greater priority. Dark Pulse is an option for STAB over Crunch, but most things enemies a Dark-type move would hit have higher Special Defense than Defense, and Tyranitar's worse Special Attack means Crunch will almost always be the better option generally hit harder. It should be noted that Dark Pulse is useful against enemies that use Intimidate or Will-O-Wisp. Gyarados and Salamence can switch into Crunch relatively easily, but will have trouble against Dark Pulse. Dark Pulse also allows Tyranitar to check Jellicent, an enemy that would normally give TyraniBoah trouble due to its superior Speed and burn inducing attacks. Dark Pulse also makes destroy Wobbuffet, as Tyranitar is immune to Mirror Coat. Unfortunately, this set does have certain troubles will inevitably have foes it cannot bring down; bulky Fighting-types once again do not mind anything Tyranitar will throw at them still shrug off most of TyraniBoah's attacks, and often times may do some sort of set up in the process are capable of boosting their stats as they force Tyranitar out.</p>
<p>This Tyranitar functions particularly well as a mixed attacker capable of beating stall. For this reason, it once again pairs well with Reuniclus, as Reuniclus often finds easy easily sets up against stall teams with certain holes bashed in them. Other good teammates depend on what moves Tyranitar is running. Those without TyraniBoah lacking Ice Beam enjoy Virizion as a partner, as Virizion can OHKO Hippowdon with Giga Drain, and outspeeds and OHKOes Landorus and Gliscor with Hidden Power Ice. Heatran fares well against most Steel-types, which may be problematic if you do not have Fire Blast and they do not mind a Focus Punch.</p>
[SET]
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Stone Edge
move 2: Crunch
move 3: Pursuit
move 4: Superpower
item: Choice Scarf
nature: Jolly
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>As with many Pokemon with a gargantuan Attack and middling Speed, a Choice Scarf set becomes a viable option. When donning a Choice Scarf, Tyranitar functions as a fabulous revenge killer thanks to its STAB moves, Stone Edge and Crunch. Tyranitar generally won't mind being locked into either of those moves late game; once the opponent's team has taken some serious damage, Tyranitar often finds it easy to clean up. Pursuit helps trap Ghost- and Psychic-types, who otherwise may attempt to switch out unscathed. Of course, the age-old dilemna of when to Crunch and when to Pursuit still lies in your hands. Superpower finds its way into the last slot, as it allows Tyranitar to nab important KOes on predicted switch-ins, including opposing Tyranitar, Ferrothorn, and Excadrill.</p>
[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
<p>The EVs come very standard on this set. With a Jolly nature and 252 Speed EVs, Tyranitar gets the jump on positive-natured base 115 Speed enemies, including Starmie and Raikou. Earthquake is often considered for the last slot, but it is generally unacceptable as those equipped with an best avoided, as enemies with Flying-type, Levitate or Air Balloon will have no problem handling Tyranitar. Aqua Tail is also an option, and it hits users of Air Balloon, but it still is less notable than Superpower.</p>
[SET]
name: Dragon Dance
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Stone Edge
move 3: Crunch
move 4: Fire Punch / Aqua Tail / Ice Punch
item: Air Balloon / Lum Berry / Life Orb
nature: Jolly
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Merely the fact that Tyranitar had Dragon Dance in its repertoire allowed it to see some use last generation. However, with the advent of Black and White, it is much less common, which is perhaps, if anything, a boon to this set, making it more unpredictable. Dragon Dance Tyranitar was a common site in DPP OU until Bullet Punch Scizor came on the scene. In BW, Scizor's relative fall in popularity, combined with the obscurity of this set, give it the opportunity to be a surprisingly lethal sweeper. Dragon Dance resolves the problem of Tyranitar's less-than-choice middling Speed, allowing it to outspeed a variety of threats including Starmie and Thundurus after a boost. From there, the bonus to Attack is all but overkill; many teams just may struggle to find an answer to +1/+1 Tyranitar With a boost to Attack, many teams will be hard pressed to stand up to Tyranitar's offensive.</p>
<p>The last move slot has a variety of options. Fire Punch nails Ferrothorn and Scizor. Be sure to catch Scizor on the switch, who as it could otherwise pose a problem with Bullet Punch. Aqua Tail allows grants you a reliable way of touching Tyranitar, Gliscor, and Hippowdon, while Ice Punch delivers a much more commendable dent to Landorus and Gliscor. As for Tyranitar's item, there is an important choice to be made here as well. Air Balloon is the main option, as it allows you to set up on those Gliscor and foes locked on a Ground-type move and Gliscor. Lum Berry gives an extra bit of insurance, as a burn or paralysis basically cripples Tyranitar for the rest of the match. Life Orb, however, gives a huge addition boost to power, and eases prediction a bit.</p>
[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
<p>The nature of this set leaves a lot of other viable options. Earthquake could be used to nail Heatran, opposing Tyranitar, and Jirachi. Taunt allows you to set up against stall, making this Tyranitar difficult to face and impossible to phaze. Leftovers may then be the preferable item to deal with repeated hits. Chople Berry could be used to survive a weaker Fighting-type attack, or Babiri Berry can be utilized to ensure Scizor's Bullet Punch doesn't doesn't let priority ruin your fun. This Tyranitar is much less of a team player, but nonetheless, it enjoys teammates who can handle whatever it cannot being unable to pick off key threats, and instead demands that its teammates be able to clear its path of enemies that could potentially stop its sweep. This, however, depends entirely on your choice of moves The choice of said teammates depends on what attacks Tyranitar carries. Many of the aforementioned partners, including Reuniclus and sandstorm abusers, also work well.</p>
[Other Options]
<p>Tyranitar really isn't lacking in the movepool department, but it really can't utilize most of it in ways not already mentioned has an impressive movepool, but most of the alternative moves yet to be mentioned are of little interest. Tyranitar has Rest, Sleep Talk, and Curse, set could be used to clean up which could be used in tandem with Tyranitar's incredible Special Bulk to sweep late game. however Unfortunately, it typically does would be of little for use in supporting the team, and would be . Also, it is utterly useless unless all opposing Fighting-types had been removed. and even then, i It is would inevitably be still set-up bait for many threats. Dragon Tail is generally a good move, but more often than not, you will end up phazing in something that will love to capitalize on Tyranitar's wealth of weaknesses but Tyranitar's many weaknesses are unideal for a phazer, as it will likely pull out an enemy that can attack it for super effective damage. A Choice Specs set could be employed because of used to capitalize on Tyranitar's adequate impressive special movepool, but it is rather underwhelming when compared to the massive Attack stat sported by Tyranitar Tyranitar lacks the raw Special Attack to take advantage of it well. Generally, Nidoking is superior as a pure special sweeper.</p>
[Counters and Checks]
<p>Fighting-types were blessed in dealing with Tyranitar. Not only do they resist both of its STABs, they possess moves that are 4x effective and commonly hit on the physical side of the spectrum its weaker physical Defense stat. Other than that Besides Fighting-types, counters are basically on a set by set basis; for example, any set that isn't mixed or holding a Choice Band will have a doozy of a difficult time facing most physical walls. Finally, many things love to there are many common Pokemon in OU that can capitalize on Tyranitar's large amount of many weaknesses. Unfortunately, this is relatively easy with its comparatively low Speed.</p>
[Dream World]
<p>Tyranitar gets Unnerve as its Dream World ability, which prevents the foe from using their held berry. What this ability lacks for in usefulness, it makes up for with a lack of applicability: Tyranitar often finds its way onto teams due to the fact that it can summon permanent sandstorm While the ability itself is of little use, it is notably for allowing Tyranitar to be used without summoning permanent sandstorms.</p>
I really love how LeadTar, considering his immense detructive power as a lead with proper pokemon that can switch into his threats isn't here. I LOVE that *angryface.jpg*
Brave Nature (It works well for him)
The item is something i enjoy having personally. I like running a Baloon. It completely throws off opponents, as most people will take it down with a Fighting, Water, or Ground move. Which is why Mr.Jellyfish works well, but you don't need a flyer/levitater if you run baloon. And its a free turn against a meagross or something of the sort.
EVs you can figure out, i don't know exact EVs, the ones i run just work for me. And they probably could be better. Keep in mind, this is in no way a Special Attacking TTar. You basically want to give it enough EVs to make FireBlast OHKO nattorei. THATS IT. You won't use FB against much besides Nattorei. So don't make this special at all. 4x damage is huge, and TTar has a decent Special stat. So you want to give EVs to make it last against common leads, and enough attack to OHKO/2HKO most leads. THIS IS NOT A MIXTAR at all.
FireBlast (Fire Punch is useless against nattorei)
Stealth Rock (Honestly, its there if you WANT to use it, most times you won't be using it really)
EQ (Steels)
Pursuit/Crunch (This is preferance based on what you feel you want to handle. Crunch deals massive damage to most poke that switch in for a psychic, but if a psychic lead doesn't switch and you use pursuit, you may not kill it. Plus crunch gives it more damage against things it wants a STAB on.
Brave Nature (It works well for him)
The item is something i enjoy having personally. I like running a Baloon. It completely throws off opponents, as most people will take it down with a Fighting, Water, or Ground move. Which is why Mr.Jellyfish works well, but you don't need a flyer/levitater if you run baloon. And its a free turn against a meagross or something of the sort.
EVs you can figure out, i don't know exact EVs, the ones i run just work for me. And they probably could be better. Keep in mind, this is in no way a Special Attacking TTar. You basically want to give it enough EVs to make FireBlast OHKO nattorei. THATS IT. You won't use FB against much besides Nattorei. So don't make this special at all. 4x damage is huge, and TTar has a decent Special stat. So you want to give EVs to make it last against common leads, and enough attack to OHKO/2HKO most leads. THIS IS NOT A MIXTAR at all.
FireBlast (Fire Punch is useless against nattorei)
Stealth Rock (Honestly, its there if you WANT to use it, most times you won't be using it really)
EQ (Steels)
Pursuit/Crunch (This is preferance based on what you feel you want to handle. Crunch deals massive damage to most poke that switch in for a psychic, but if a psychic lead doesn't switch and you use pursuit, you may not kill it. Plus crunch gives it more damage against things it wants a STAB on.
I know this is done, but I have a pretty big gripe with this analysis.
There are plenty of other solid TTar-beaters in OU. Politoed, for example, cancels TTar's sand (which you talked about for half of the analysis) and hits it with STAB 2x+Drizzle Surf/Hydro Pump. Swampert can come into any move and wreck it. Hippowdon is a 100% counter for any TTar without Ice Beam. Skarmory or Ferrothorn beats anything without a special Fire move.
It also has a bunch of good checks. Scizor, Gliscor, Garchomp, Azumarill, anything with Focus Blast, Arcanine (for sun teams), Dugtrio, etc. The analysis is great overall but this counters section really needs work.
edit - I think it still needs some additions. Conkledurr, for example, counters every Tyranitar set. Excadrill also takes advantage of the Sand, resists both of TTar's STAB moves and can use Earthquake. Those are two pretty notable pokemon who should be there IMO.
There are a lot more checks and counters to Tyranitar other than this tiny paragraph. You didn't even list a single specific pokemon to counter it. Most "Fighting-types" actually have a hard time countering Tyranitar. Lucario and Toxicroak are weak to both EQ and Fire Blast. Heracross is wrecked by Stone Edge. Breloom has no defenses and is weak to Fire Blast and Ice Beam. Scrafty is decent type-wise but has no defense. Virizion and Terakion are pretty good but they usually have better things to do. Conkledurr is pretty much the only Fighting-type I would say is a counter to Tyranitar in OU, the rest are checks at best.
There are plenty of other solid TTar-beaters in OU. Politoed, for example, cancels TTar's sand (which you talked about for half of the analysis) and hits it with STAB 2x+Drizzle Surf/Hydro Pump. Swampert can come into any move and wreck it. Hippowdon is a 100% counter for any TTar without Ice Beam. Skarmory or Ferrothorn beats anything without a special Fire move.
It also has a bunch of good checks. Scizor, Gliscor, Garchomp, Azumarill, anything with Focus Blast, Arcanine (for sun teams), Dugtrio, etc. The analysis is great overall but this counters section really needs work.
edit - I think it still needs some additions. Conkledurr, for example, counters every Tyranitar set. Excadrill also takes advantage of the Sand, resists both of TTar's STAB moves and can use Earthquake. Those are two pretty notable pokemon who should be there IMO.
Er... I don't mean to intrude but Heracross isn't "wrecked" by Stone Edge. At most it can 2HKO him (bar choice band), at its absolute worst it'll be a 3HKO. I wouldn't say he's a solid counter to TTar but everything bar the special attacking sets a Heracross can easily come in on and threaten with a close combat OHKO.
Scrafty has phenomenal defenses so I have no idea where the no defenses part is coming from. Have you looked at its defenses? It' only bad point is its lackluster HP if anything. Either way it can KO a TTar easily with a drain punch or HJK depending on the set.
Scrafty has phenomenal defenses so I have no idea where the no defenses part is coming from. Have you looked at its defenses? It' only bad point is its lackluster HP if anything. Either way it can KO a TTar easily with a drain punch or HJK depending on the set.
CBTar gets a clean OHKO on Heracross with Stone Edge, 115.2% - 136.1%. Any set with just max Atk does 69.9% - 82.8%, which actually has a chance of OHKOing with Stealth Rock and Sand damage. Heracross is also weak to Fire Blast. Heracross can come into Crunch (although its still 3hkod). CBTar 2hkos Heracross with Crunch, a move it resists (46.4% - 54.6%). Heracross is one of the best Tyranitar checks in the game, but it is by no means a reliable counter, especially with all these weird utility Tars running around.
Scrafty is destroyed by Superpower (which is an option on most of these sets) and has pitiful base HP, and it also usually packs either SpDef EVs or no defensive EVs at all. Of course it can KO Tyranitar, I never said otherwise. I was just making a point about how just having a Fighter isn't a guaranteed stop to TTar. They still have to switch into arguably the best offensive pokemon in the game.
tl;dr - TTar has a move that can beat everything, counters are entirely set dependent...which means that the vague "Fighting-types" isn't nearly specific enough for the analysis of a top 5 OU threat.
Scrafty is destroyed by Superpower (which is an option on most of these sets) and has pitiful base HP, and it also usually packs either SpDef EVs or no defensive EVs at all. Of course it can KO Tyranitar, I never said otherwise. I was just making a point about how just having a Fighter isn't a guaranteed stop to TTar. They still have to switch into arguably the best offensive pokemon in the game.
tl;dr - TTar has a move that can beat everything, counters are entirely set dependent...which means that the vague "Fighting-types" isn't nearly specific enough for the analysis of a top 5 OU threat.
I'll agree to a point that counters are extremely set dependent but.... Who the hell runs CBtar in this fast paced metagame? It's outspeed by every decent fighting pokemon and OHKO'd by their respective stabs. Hell, even most unstab'd fighting moves from high power pokemon will still OHKO it.
I'll give you that everything you said for Heracross is true but Scrafty is never ohko'd on any set with max HP as long as the TTar isn't +1 attack AND has super power. This makes it a reliable counter to pretty much every set since CB Superpower is not even on a standard TTar with lots of attack investments. This also means that it can come in, take the hit and then follow up with a drain punch and get all its hp back. This isn't to say it should switch in willy nilly because it'll still have problems later if it lost 50% of its HP and it doesn't gain them back ever.
Ferro isn't a good TTar counter. Even a fire punch usually OHKOs the thing after a DD or the such. The only time it'll actually be a problem to TTar is if its around in rain.
PS: I would suggest putting the steel resist berry on the DD set since it helps lure out scizors and take them out with fire punch. I just recently got hold of a steel resist berry myself from DW so I know it exists.
I'll give you that everything you said for Heracross is true but Scrafty is never ohko'd on any set with max HP as long as the TTar isn't +1 attack AND has super power. This makes it a reliable counter to pretty much every set since CB Superpower is not even on a standard TTar with lots of attack investments. This also means that it can come in, take the hit and then follow up with a drain punch and get all its hp back. This isn't to say it should switch in willy nilly because it'll still have problems later if it lost 50% of its HP and it doesn't gain them back ever.
Ferro isn't a good TTar counter. Even a fire punch usually OHKOs the thing after a DD or the such. The only time it'll actually be a problem to TTar is if its around in rain.
PS: I would suggest putting the steel resist berry on the DD set since it helps lure out scizors and take them out with fire punch. I just recently got hold of a steel resist berry myself from DW so I know it exists.
Oh sorry, I sort of skimmed the sets. I didn't read too deeply into them or the comments after them. My apologies. I'm just sort of used to Babiri being a primary item for DD mainly due to 4th gen back in the day being his biggest check.
I am going to agree TTar has many counters, but what you listed isn't really a counter. Heracross isn't going to exist in this gens Meta-Game. He has his job done better, and thats just the fact. And tiers are made partialy based on that fact. "Can this poke's job be done better by another?"
Breloom is still Breloom. You cannot specify him as a counter. Anything he out-speeds he counters, aside from Honchkrow due to Insomnia+OHKO 4x STAB Brave Bird. Once breloom puts a pokemon to sleep, he cannot counter TTar useless he is specifically running a secondary fighting type move aside from Focus Punch which isn't normally done. Plus, breloom is only going to be wanted for his Spore now. Conkle is just so powerful that his regular moves do sufficient damage to anything breloom's focus punch was used to take out. Machamp was good, conkle is better, and will be a dominent poke. Breloom is not a "threat" to Tyranitar.
Lucario is a threat. In fact, he is quite possibly the most prevalent threat to TTar. While TTar can EQ him, probably for a OHKO, Lucario A. Can take advantage of TTar's weaker defense and B. Has justified or whatever that ability is called that increases his Attack from a dark attack. Which is why Choice Scarf Lucario is going to be WIDELY used compared to last gen, since Dark is one of the most prevalent Attacking Types. Meaning he will normally outspeed Tyranitar, then with a Boosted Attack from getting hit with a Crunch, can OHKO TTar. Not like he couldn't without that Attack boost, but now it can lead into a mini-sweep for Lucario against the next poke, meaning TTar not only is threatened by him, but can hurt his entire team against a lucario.
Conckledurr. OHKO Mach Punch much? Not sure if he could, but likely, and even then, anything stronger from him has too.
Infernape. Will it be around as much this gen? Probably not since Conkle has Mach punch, a selling point for infernape. But nape still has that fire, so it might be around. Blaziken was banned, meaning it has a shot, before that, it had zero, but now most definitely. A baloon could really help him in the long run.
Musketeers. Terrakion crushed TTar+Dark Attack Boost. Cabalion also does the same. Virizion perfectly counters TTar. Plus that attack boost if needed. TTar needs Fire Punch or Fire Blast to counter it. If its faster. Keldio is unobtainable.
Empoleon. Nothing changed between this gen and last for him. Except access to some new stuff+an extreme prevalence of Rain Dance Teams. This means TTar will 100% be threatened by this thing.
Ferrothorn. Lol. Thats a good joke bra.
Jellicent. Counter Much? Pursuit doesn't OHKO this thing, might not 2OHKO it after a Acid Armor. Not sure on speed. Personally, I run this thing with Water Spourt. Got that right, fucking 150 power, 100 accuracy, no draw backs aside from weakening with less HP, but this thing can recover itself? HELL YEAH. Granted, its better to have this thing back up TTar since it covers his fighting, water, and ground weakness very well. Extremely well actually. Mention that.
Starmie. Not sure if it can OHKO Surf TTar or not, but it definitely does significant damage.
Focus Blast. Anything with that, many of which are faster (Gengar for example) threaten TTar.
Anything with Surf.
anything with EQ. Little fact, EQ is the most common used move in the entire game, by a lot. Has been forever.
Next note. MENTION LEADTAR!!!!! Jesus christ, whats wrong with you?
Breloom is still Breloom. You cannot specify him as a counter. Anything he out-speeds he counters, aside from Honchkrow due to Insomnia+OHKO 4x STAB Brave Bird. Once breloom puts a pokemon to sleep, he cannot counter TTar useless he is specifically running a secondary fighting type move aside from Focus Punch which isn't normally done. Plus, breloom is only going to be wanted for his Spore now. Conkle is just so powerful that his regular moves do sufficient damage to anything breloom's focus punch was used to take out. Machamp was good, conkle is better, and will be a dominent poke. Breloom is not a "threat" to Tyranitar.
Lucario is a threat. In fact, he is quite possibly the most prevalent threat to TTar. While TTar can EQ him, probably for a OHKO, Lucario A. Can take advantage of TTar's weaker defense and B. Has justified or whatever that ability is called that increases his Attack from a dark attack. Which is why Choice Scarf Lucario is going to be WIDELY used compared to last gen, since Dark is one of the most prevalent Attacking Types. Meaning he will normally outspeed Tyranitar, then with a Boosted Attack from getting hit with a Crunch, can OHKO TTar. Not like he couldn't without that Attack boost, but now it can lead into a mini-sweep for Lucario against the next poke, meaning TTar not only is threatened by him, but can hurt his entire team against a lucario.
Conckledurr. OHKO Mach Punch much? Not sure if he could, but likely, and even then, anything stronger from him has too.
Infernape. Will it be around as much this gen? Probably not since Conkle has Mach punch, a selling point for infernape. But nape still has that fire, so it might be around. Blaziken was banned, meaning it has a shot, before that, it had zero, but now most definitely. A baloon could really help him in the long run.
Musketeers. Terrakion crushed TTar+Dark Attack Boost. Cabalion also does the same. Virizion perfectly counters TTar. Plus that attack boost if needed. TTar needs Fire Punch or Fire Blast to counter it. If its faster. Keldio is unobtainable.
Empoleon. Nothing changed between this gen and last for him. Except access to some new stuff+an extreme prevalence of Rain Dance Teams. This means TTar will 100% be threatened by this thing.
Ferrothorn. Lol. Thats a good joke bra.
Jellicent. Counter Much? Pursuit doesn't OHKO this thing, might not 2OHKO it after a Acid Armor. Not sure on speed. Personally, I run this thing with Water Spourt. Got that right, fucking 150 power, 100 accuracy, no draw backs aside from weakening with less HP, but this thing can recover itself? HELL YEAH. Granted, its better to have this thing back up TTar since it covers his fighting, water, and ground weakness very well. Extremely well actually. Mention that.
Starmie. Not sure if it can OHKO Surf TTar or not, but it definitely does significant damage.
Focus Blast. Anything with that, many of which are faster (Gengar for example) threaten TTar.
Anything with Surf.
anything with EQ. Little fact, EQ is the most common used move in the entire game, by a lot. Has been forever.
Next note. MENTION LEADTAR!!!!! Jesus christ, whats wrong with you?
Heracross still has a niche in OU with his choice sets (especially after DW) and he is a perfect check to TTar.
Infernape still has plenty of use and with Blaziken down his use will only go up as he is still the premier fire/fighting in OU.
Jelli isn't a counter or even a check to TTar. He might not be OHKO'd by Crunch but the thing is he'll be losing the stall fest as TTar does more damage than he can recover.
Starmie is a check. Surf never OHKOs at full hp.
Anything with surf is a check. None ever OHKO normally.
EQs never OHKO unless it comes from stab and massive attack and even then its iffy.
There are no leads in 5th gen. Stop using that term. Team preview kills the point of "leadtar".
Infernape still has plenty of use and with Blaziken down his use will only go up as he is still the premier fire/fighting in OU.
Jelli isn't a counter or even a check to TTar. He might not be OHKO'd by Crunch but the thing is he'll be losing the stall fest as TTar does more damage than he can recover.
Starmie is a check. Surf never OHKOs at full hp.
Anything with surf is a check. None ever OHKO normally.
EQs never OHKO unless it comes from stab and massive attack and even then its iffy.
There are no leads in 5th gen. Stop using that term. Team preview kills the point of "leadtar".
I disagree with this, but it doesn't matter since the "leadtar" set is the exact same thing as the "Mixed Attacker" set that is the first one on the page. Just because any of the 6 pokemon can lead your party, doesn't mean that there isn't still a lead metagame. In a setting where battles take like 30 turns tops, getting a jump on your opponent is a huge advantage.
@Giffica, not only are your points poorly supported
Explain to me why I should listen to what you're saying?
And you fail to understand what sandstorm actually does, boost Sp. Def
But you don't understand the most basic of subjects: leadtar is typically one of the sets mentioned.
Explain to me why I should listen to what you're saying?
I'm sorry, but this phrase doesn't seem so smooth to me.
Since Ferrothorn doesn't have Bullet Punch, and the sentence seems to implies that they both have this move. I think there's a better way to word this.