Underused Pokemon Matchmaking Phase 2 [Week 29 - Nasty Plot Infernape]

[nv]

And with a whopping 10 votes, IronBullet is the clear winner this week! :)

This week's Pokemon is a mon that has been recently gaining some needed attention with its Specs set literally breaking the meta (anti-meta if you will). And in all honesty, while it does compete for your Dragon slot, it is a hell of a lot harder to switch into than most other Dragons. It can also use its ability, Pressure, to stall out some low PP moves such as Stone Edge. That's right I am talking about...

This thing is a beast with amazing offensive potential and great mixed offensive stats. I am hoping to see some creativity (and some standardness per the norm), but good luck and have fun :)

 

[Raekki]

In order not to break the norm as NV put it, I want to nominate probably one of the most standart mons to accompany this beast,

Kyurem @ Choice Specs/Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid/Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Focus Blast/Outrage/Iron Head/Roost

Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant/Brave Nature
- Sacred Sword
- Shadow Sneak
- Iron Head/Gyro Ball
- Swords Dance



Offensive Capabilities:

While thinking about mons that accompany Kyurem, I was thinking about the defensive mon that can switch into this beast. The ones that came to mind first were Blissey, Florges and Snorlax depending on the sets. Blissey can switch into any set bar lo outrage, Florges can switch into any set bar life orb iron head and Snorlax can pretty much wall any set at +1 bar specs focus miss. The other mons that Kyurem has some difficulties to break through depending on the set are Porygon-2(if not have focus blast), Bronzong, and Cresselia. Looking all these mons, Doublade has a field day to sweep through them bar Porygon-2 if it has foul play. Doublade can setup and deal with these mons easily while leaving the field to Kyurem to put holes in the opponents' teams. On the other hand Kyurem deals with any physically bulky mon that walls Doublade such as Chesnaught, Nidoqueen and Gligar with one of its coverage moves, allowing Doublade the sweep late game.

Defensive Capabilities:

Doublade has also great defensive support to Kyurem as well. It can cover its fighting, fairy, dragon, rock and steel weaknesses thanks to its unique typing and great defenses with eviolite. Doublade can switch into mons like Cobalion and Florges or prevents setup mons to setup such as slurpuff after coming into a -2 Kyurem .

Weaknesses of the Core:

These mons cannot directly switch in to either Doublade or Kyurem but when they do, they get to do whatever they want

Hydreigon - Huge weaknesses to the core as it can hit super-effective with one of its STAB move
Salamence - It causes great problem with either EQ or Fire Blast
Infernape - Huge weaknesses to the core as it can hit super-effective with one of its STAB move
Lucario - Both sets, especially special NP set can cause some problem if it carries dark pulse or crunch.
Entei - Nothing enjoys Sacred Fire

 

[Cynde]

Alright so Kyurem's primary function is that of a early to mid game wallbreaker, so naturally the best partner would be one that helps accomplish this goal. The main things that limit Kyurem's wallbreaking capacity include entry hazards and special walls. This is where Tentacruel comes in. Being able to spin away pesky entry hazards give Kyurem more times to switch in during the early to mid game stages and break down walls. In adittion to that it also has access to Toxic Spikes which cause the gradual wearing down of anything that could possibly switch into Kyurem. Not to mention Tentacruel helps soft check fighting types like Cobalion and fairy types like Whimsicott which give Kyurem trouble.

Even the less common sets like the Sub Roost ones greatly appareciate special walls being worn down by Toxic Spikes and using Substitute and Roost allows Kyurem to wear them down even more. So yeah Tentacruel is a pretty cool partner for it :)

Sets

Kyurem @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Focus Blast

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Liquid Ooze / Clear Body
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Acid Spray / Knock Off

 

[Dr Ciel]

Mega Beedrill

Kyurem @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Outrage / Iron Head / Roost

Beedrill @ Beedrillite
Ability: Swarm
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Protect
- Poison Jab
- Knock Off / Drill Run

Mega Beedrill makes for an excellent partner for Kyurem, as they break down each others checks and counters, allowing Beedrill to clean up late game. Kyurem breaks down bulky Steel types such as Mega Aggron, Doublade & Forretress, while also beating down most physical walls with it's extremely powerful STAB moves. In return, Beedrill can deal heavy damage to Special walls that wall Kyurem such as Blissey, Snorlax, and Umbreon if lacking Outrage and Florges if lacking Iron Head. Beedrill also can severely cripple physical walls with Knock Off.

 

[Christo]

Actually I use that spread because it outspeeds Mola which is a relevant enough threat, and gives Jelli an easier time vs Vapo and defensive Chesnaught. In fact I think it should probably be the recommended spread for the UU analysis too because it sacrifices very little bulk while hitting a useful tier.

Outspeeding Florges meanwhile takes a lot away from its bulk (e.g. the current spread is never 2HKOed by Mega Swampert EQ and has a small chance with rocks, while if you creep Florges it's a guaranteed 2HKO with rocks). Furthermore the other member of the core is Bee which has no problems with Florges, so Jelli being slower isn't too big a deal in this case since you can still pressurise it fairly easily. That's not to say creeping Florges or even Cune isn't viable though, it definitely is but then be sure to pack reliable checks to the threats Jelli can't handle now due to its reduced bulk.

Anyway thanks for the votes everyone, glad you like the core and hope you try it out!

I do not mean to start a conversation in this thread, but I will address this anyway. Running a lot of speed is what Jellicent wants. Why use a Stall-breaking Taunt pokemon if you can not out-speed the standard balance walls? You would not run Jellicent with a lot of speed because Florges is such an issue, you would run it to stop it from healing off burns and passing Wishes. I don't know about you, but to me I would find it counter productive to repetitively Taunt and Wilo Wisp an entire team just for the Cleric(In this case, Florges) to heal it off like no damage has been done. Florges is just a benchmark but I personally outpace pokemon such as Gligar, Cress, and Suicune. I do not think the extra bulk is all you are cutting it out to be since you probably should not be using Jellicent as a Entei counter for example. Jellicent should be checking the numerous balance mons like were mentioned before while still countering pokemon such as Infernape and Cobalion. This can be done with Max HP and the leftover Defense EVs. This is just my opinion anyway, sorry if I offended you by saying that your spread was inferior, it was not my intention.

 

[IronBullet]

Christo The Gr8 fair enough about Florges, although the added bulk has made lot of difference in my experience (the Mega Swampert example I gave for one) and it's not always the case that you can pack multiple hard checks on the same team to Fire-types and other physical attackers, so having Jelli as a reliable switch-in to them provides some role compression. Keep in mind also that the core contained Bee, which is why I said even if Jelli doesn't outspeed it, the two together can still pressure Florges quite a bit. You're definitely right in that not outspeeding Gligar, Cress and Suicune is a pretty big loss but the tradeoff in bulk is definitely a factor, especially since outspeeding them requires over 200 EVs.

Not offended at all dw :) I've used the faster spread myself in the past but I have come across occasions where I wish I had the added bulk, and the same goes for when I used the bulkier spread and could've used some more Speed. If you want to chat some more about this I'd be glad to but let's use PM since we don't want to derail this thread!

 

[Sam I Yam]

Kyurem @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Dragon Pulse​

Mienshao @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Poison Jab​

I like this core a lot not only because it has great offensive synergy, but because it also can bluff a Scarf Mienshao and Specs/LO Kyurem at team preview. Mienshao is able to slip in and out the battlefield and get off quick, powerful blows to many of Kyurems most common checks. Things like Blissey, Snorlax, Florges, Umbreon, and even SpDef Bronzong (most common spread currently)​

Calcs

252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 1001-1180 (140.1 - 165.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO (In case you didn't know)

252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 232 Def Florges: 234-276 (65 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Umbreon: 507-601 (124.6 - 148.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Bronzong: 242-286 (71.5 - 84.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Also an option to run Reckless Mienshao to get a better chance to KO Bronzong

252 Atk Life Orb Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Bronzong: 290-343 (85.7 - 101.4%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

Furthermore, Kyurem really helps extinguish many of Mienshao's vexations. Things like Bulky poisons (Nidoqueen, Crobat, and Quilfish), Gligar (since we aren't carrying HP Ice) and Chestnaught.​

Calcs

252 SpA Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Nidoqueen: 348-410 (90.8 - 107%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Crobat: 366-432 (98.1 - 115.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Qwilfish: 351-414 (105 - 123.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Gligar: 568-672 (170.5 - 201.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

52 SpA Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Chesnaught: 384-452 (101 - 118.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[Louna]

Kyurem @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 56 HP / 200 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature / Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Substitute / Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power

Roserade @ Black Sludge
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Toxic Spikes / Spikes
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Kyurem + Roserade is a core around who i've build before. Due to Kyurem types, Roserade help him a lot against things like Florges / Forretress, and in return, Kyurem help Roserade to sets his TSpikes more easily by pressuring a lot the spinner who are played a lot such as Mandibuzz, Zapdos, Donphan. If we choose to play sub roost Kyurem, the Toxic Spikes are more effective than the Spikes. Due to the number of turn Kyurem can stay on the floor. But with Draco Meteor, Kyurem can pressure anything with the Spikes+SR. This core works pretty well in some offensive or bulky offensive teams.

 

[TSR]

Almost forgot about this

Kyurem + Cobalion. No sprites because I'm on my phone atm :[

Kyurem @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 56 HP / 176 Def / 252 SpD / 24 Spe
Calm Nature
- Substitute
- Roost
- Dragon Tail
- Ice Beam

Cobalion @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Close Combat
- Volt Switch
- Stealth Rock

So Coba is basically the perfect partner to get up rocks and lure out things like Suicune and Zapdos that it can pivot off of with Volt Switch and bring kyurem in to click DTail hopefully with spikes up as well and get Subs and phase the opponents team around until they're worn down for a cleaner like salamence or aerodactyl.

 

[Waiv]

Kyu kyu
Kyurem more like cute rem :3

Kyurem @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Substitute
- Dragon Tail
- Iron Head
- Roost

• 0 Atk Kyurem Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 232 Def Florges: 148-176 (41.1 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
• 252 SpA Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem: 78-93 (17.1 - 20.4%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery

Done deal! Eat up all those pesky thunderbolts and other nonsense from UUs mons! Rinse them with a quick dragon tail! then roost off the meaningless damage :3

Qwilboy95
spikes all over his body ofc you know whats up

Qwilfish @ Black Sludge
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes
- Protect
- Scald

• +1 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Qwilfish: 160-190 (47.9 - 56.8%) -- 37.9% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
• -1 252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Qwilfish: 77-91 (23 - 27.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Black Sludge recovery

We aint scared of nothingggggg! Qwilfish handles attacks from fighting gods such as luc and mienshao quite nicely, returning the favour with great spikes and flavoured spikes! After that just cycle through your enemies with dragon tail and play mind games all day!

 

[rs]

Gonna reserve Luke For when I'm back from class

Kyurem and Lucario

Kyurem @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Focus Blast

Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Extreme Speed
- Crunch / Earthquake

Hey guys, got another cool little core over here. It's essentially just a very strong wallbreaker + a late-game cleaner, pretty simple.

So it's extremely hard to switch-in to a Specs Kyurem, due to its insane Special Attack base stat was well as the coverage it receives (its STABs + other coverage moves in Focus Blast and Earth Power), so it's counters are very limited to things such as Blissey, Porygon2, or Snorlax, even though those could get hit insanely hard by a Focus Blast (granted that you hit). Here's some calcs of Kyurems Focus Blast power

Calcs

252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 302-356 (42.2 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 196-232 (52.4 - 62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Focus Blast vs. 144 HP / 176+ SpD Snorlax: 282-332 (56.7 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

These all 2HKO or get close to 2HKO'ing any of the bulky normals in the tier (again, if you hit). But anyway, Lucario is here to make up for the Focus Misses as well as clean up late game from all the damage Kyurem inflicted earlier in the game to the opponent's walls or take out those Bulky Normals for Kyurem later in the game. Kyurem can also help Luke by dealing with things like Cresselia, Reuniclus, Doublade or Gligar, which all can wall and cripple/KO Lucario depending on the final coverage move. But yeah, overall, wallbreaker + late-game cleaner is great for any team.

 

[Legacy Raider]

Wallbreaker Core - Kyurem + Nidoqueen

Kyurem @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 56 HP / 220 SpA / 232 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Roost
- Ice Beam
- Toxic

Nidoqueen @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 180 HP / 252 SpA / 76 Spe
Modest Nature
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Sludge Wave
- Thunderbolt / Stealth Rock


These two have excellent offensive, defensive and colour synergy. With Sub and Toxic, this Kyurem set forces lots of switches as opposing pokemon try to reset the Toxic counter or go to their cleric. Weakened balance cores are like an afternoon snack for Nidoqueen. In particular these two wallbreakers complement each other's weaknesses - Nidoqueen can take on most bulky pokemon with the exception of Blissey, which Kyurem easily stalls out of Heal Bell PP and beats, and Cresselia with Psyshock, who Kyurem can also do a number to. On the other hand, Kyurem does not like fairies like Florges because they can break his Substitute in a single hit, and Steel-types because they resist both Toxic and Ice Beam - Nidoqueen can come in on both cases and threaten with its super-effective STAB attacks. I like to run Thunderbolt on queen to be a more immediate threat to Rest Suicune, who can otherwise negate Kyurem's efforts.

They cover each other's type weaknesses pretty well too - Kyurem resisting Nidoqueen's Water weakness, and Nido covering Kyurem's Fighting, Fairy and Rock weaknesses, with no shared weaknesses between them.

It's worth baring in mind that this core struggles more against fast teams with high offensive pressure, but because of their raw power and decent bulk, both these Pokemon can tank neutral hits from most opponents and threaten high damage back. If you want a slightly more offensive spin on the above core, then Specs Kyurem goes very well with mixed Superpower Nidoking as well for many of the same reasons that I mentioned.

 

[Adaam]

Reserving Sub CM Chandelure

 

[nv]

Ok so it is voting time! We got Raekki's Doublade, Cyndequil.'s Tentacruel, Dr Ciel's Mega Beedrill, Sam I Yam's Mienshao, Holiano's Roserade, TSR's Cobalion, Waiv's Qwilfish, Shiba's Lucario, and Legacy Raider's Nidoqueen.

Again withholding my vote in case of a tie! See you guys Monday :)

 

[Hogg]

Cyndequil., because Tenta + Kyurem is obviously a beast core.

 

[LRXC]

I am going to have to go with Raekki Doublade works really well with Kyruem as a spin blocker, as well as awesome defensive synergy

 

[rs]

waiv

 

[LeoLancaster]

Shiba

 

[DaSpoofy]

waiv Cynde
e: erm cyndequil has max def tenta. Crap I dont know. Nm I guess that taunt is clutch
ee: nm it doesnt have taunt.

 

[Schpoonman]

Dr. Ciel. I was gonna post Mega Bee when I saw this thread before I realized it was a week old already.

 

[Absollite]

Cyndequil

 

[Sacri']

Legacy Raider

 

[Louna]

Cyndequil

 

[MegaFlareon]

Legacy Raider

 

[TSR]

Cyndequil